Brain differences of atheists and believers

JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
edited January 2012 in A Moving Train
***Note that this is a science related thread and NOT a "God" thread. I didn't start this so people can bicker about God, it's about brain differences in people according to beliefs. I thought this article was pretty interesting.

Is There a Difference between the Brain of an Atheist and the Brain of a Religious Person?


Andrew Newberg, director of research at the Myrna Brind Center of Integrative Medicine at Thomas Jefferson University and Hospital in Philadelphia, responds

By Andrew Newberg | January 16, 2012

Is there a difference between the brain of an atheist andthe brain of a religious person?
—Emma Schachner, Utah

Andrew Newberg, director of research at the Myrna Brind Center of Integrative Medicine at Thomas Jefferson University and Hospital in Philadelphia, responds:

Researchers have pinpointed differences between the brains of believers and nonbelievers, but the neural picture is not yet complete.

Several studies have revealed that people who practice meditation or have prayed for many years exhibit increased activity and have more brain tissue in their frontal lobes, regions associated with attention and reward, as compared with people who do not meditate or pray. A more recent study revealed that people who have had “born again” experiences have a smaller hippocampus, a part of the brain involved in emotions and memory, than atheists do. These findings, however, are difficult to interpret because they do not clarify whether having larger frontal lobes or a smaller hippocampus causes a person to become more religious or whether being pious triggers changes in these brain regions.

Various experiments have also tried to elucidate whether believing in God causes similar brain changes as believing in something else. The results, so far, show that thinking about God may activate the same parts of the brain as thinking about an airplane, a friend or a lamppost. For instance, one study showed that when religious people prayed to God, they used some of the same areas of the brain as when they talked to an average Joe. In other words, in the religious person’s brain, God is just as real as any object or person.

Research also suggests that a ­religious brain exhibits higher levels of dopamine, a hormone associated with increased attention and motivation. A study showed that believers were much more likely than skeptics to see words and faces on a screen when there were none, whereas skeptics often did not see words and faces that were actually there. Yet when skeptics were given the drug L-dopa, which increases the amount of dopamine in the brain, they were just as likely to interpret scrambled patterns as words and faces as were the religious individuals.

So what does the research mean? At the moment, we do not have a clear way to connect all the dots. For now we can say that the religious and atheist brains exhibit differences, but what causes these disparities remains unknown.

http://digg.com/newsbar/topnews/is_ther ... ous_person
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Comments

  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 40,211
    hmm. Interesting.
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  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    I read an article like this one about the frontal lobe and violence, the more tissue on the frontal lobe the less likely a person was to be violent and less ...well you get it, Al Capone was said to have a smaller frontal lobe so the electric signals in the brain had to pass thru less tissue giving a stronger signal and causing a more violent reaction when angered (theory).

    Godfather.
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    yes, interesting. I dont know exactly what to make of it, but I do love saying the word "hippocampus." ;)
    Throw Medulla Oblongata in there and i'm just happy as a pig in shit.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    Godfather. wrote:
    I read an article like this one about the frontal lobe and violence, the more tissue on the frontal lobe the less likely a person was to be violent and less ...well you get it, Al Capone was said to have a smaller frontal lobe so the electric signals in the brain had to pass thru less tissue giving a stronger signal and causing a more violent reaction when angered (theory).

    Godfather.

    They should do a frontal lobotomy on those boys in the "Boys will be boys" thread.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    Would it not be more effective for this guy to be working on the cure for cancer? Or curing dementia?

    I got this from his website bio:

    He is considered a pioneer in the neuroscientific study of religious and spiritual experiences, a field frequently referred to as – neurotheology. His work attempts to better understand the nature of religious and spiritual practices and experiences.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
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  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    yes, interesting. I dont know exactly what to make of it, but I do love saying the word "hippocampus." ;)
    Throw Medulla Oblongata in there and i'm just happy as a pig in shit.
    :lol::lol::lol::lol: nothing better then being happy as a pig in shit.


    Godfather.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 40,211
    Jason P wrote:
    Would it not be more effective for this guy to be working on the cure for cancer? Or curing dementia?

    I got this from his website bio:

    He is considered a pioneer in the neuroscientific study of religious and spiritual experiences, a field frequently referred to as – neurotheology. His work attempts to better understand the nature of religious and spiritual practices and experiences.
    You raise an excellent point. This guy has an awesome grant request writer!!
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    i know believing requires a different thinking so maybe we do have different brains. i wonder how the brain of a person who goes from believer to atheist looks.. what differences present themselves.
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  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    i know believing requires a different thinking so maybe we do have different brains. i wonder how the brain of a person who goes from believer to atheist looks.. what differences present themselves.

    And if switching beliefs cause changes in the brain, or vice versa.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jeanwah wrote:
    i know believing requires a different thinking so maybe we do have different brains. i wonder how the brain of a person who goes from believer to atheist looks.. what differences present themselves.

    And if switching beliefs cause changes in the brain, or vice versa.

    i cant imagine swtiching beliefs from say christianity to islam would make a difference... after all youre still a monotheist. id also be interested in seeing if there was a difference if one switched from christianity/islam to buddhism. and what of those agnostics??? and does the brain of a fundamentalist differ from the not so zealous believer?
    hear my name
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  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Jeanwah wrote:
    i know believing requires a different thinking so maybe we do have different brains. i wonder how the brain of a person who goes from believer to atheist looks.. what differences present themselves.

    And if switching beliefs cause changes in the brain, or vice versa.

    i cant imagine swtiching beliefs from say christianity to islam would make a difference... after all youre still a monotheist. id also be interested in seeing if there was a difference if one switched from christianity/islam to buddhism. and what of those agnostics??? and does the brain of a fundamentalist differ from the not so zealous believer?

    Yeah, I was thinking going from being, say, Christian, to atheist. The biggest extreme.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I believe that not believing is a belief, itself. In other words... my belief is that we just don't know for sure... so, we can't say either way. Sure, we can 'feel' certain things... but, feeling is not knowing.
    I also believe that we create obstacles to learning and truth... when we think we already have the answers.
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  • marcosmarcos Posts: 2,112
    I just believe in me....Yoko and me.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Yeah, I was thinking going from being, say, Christian, to atheist. The biggest extreme.

    i see the opposite as being the bigger extreme.. i can not even imagine what it would be that would have me turn into a believer.
    hear my name
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  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Yeah, I was thinking going from being, say, Christian, to atheist. The biggest extreme.

    i see the opposite as being the bigger extreme.. i can not even imagine what it would be that would have me turn into a believer.

    Imagine what your brain might look like! :lol:
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    marcos wrote:
    I just believe in me....Yoko and me.

    I love that song.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Cosmo wrote:
    I believe that not believing is a belief, itself. In other words... my belief is that we just don't know for sure... so, we can't say either way. Sure, we can 'feel' certain things... but, feeling is not knowing.
    I also believe that we create obstacles to learning and truth... when we think we already have the answers.


    not believing and just not knowing for sure are two different things. i find the term belief/believe to be loaded. its not that i dont believe tis just for me God doesnt exist... much like unicorns. but if i said i dont believe in unicorns people would look at me weird as if to say well who would?.
    hear my name
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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Yeah, I was thinking going from being, say, Christian, to atheist. The biggest extreme.

    i see the opposite as being the bigger extreme.. i can not even imagine what it would be that would have me turn into a believer.

    Imagine what your brain might look like! :lol:

    :lol:

    im busting to see what my brain looks like.... maybe one day when i go to the doctors to see if 40 years of headaches is normal..
    hear my name
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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Cosmo wrote:
    I believe that not believing is a belief, itself. In other words... my belief is that we just don't know for sure... so, we can't say either way. Sure, we can 'feel' certain things... but, feeling is not knowing.
    I also believe that we create obstacles to learning and truth... when we think we already have the answers.


    not believing and just not knowing for sure are two different things. i find the term belief/believe to be loaded. its not that i dont believe tis just for me God doesnt exist... much like unicorns. but if i said i dont believe in unicorns people would look at me weird as if to say well who would?.
    ...
    Point taken.
    Along those same lines... why don't people who utilize the part of the brain that triggers religious and/or spiritual belief... believe in Unicorns?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Cosmo wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    I believe that not believing is a belief, itself. In other words... my belief is that we just don't know for sure... so, we can't say either way. Sure, we can 'feel' certain things... but, feeling is not knowing.
    I also believe that we create obstacles to learning and truth... when we think we already have the answers.


    not believing and just not knowing for sure are two different things. i find the term belief/believe to be loaded. its not that i dont believe tis just for me God doesnt exist... much like unicorns. but if i said i dont believe in unicorns people would look at me weird as if to say well who would?.
    ...
    Point taken.
    Along those same lines... why don't people who utilize the part of the brain that triggers religious and/or spiritual belief... believe in Unicorns?

    lack of evidence perhaps. ;) :think:
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Cosmo wrote:
    not believing and just not knowing for sure are two different things. i find the term belief/believe to be loaded. its not that i dont believe tis just for me God doesnt exist... much like unicorns. but if i said i dont believe in unicorns people would look at me weird as if to say well who would?.
    ...
    Point taken.
    Along those same lines... why don't people who utilize the part of the brain that triggers religious and/or spiritual belief... believe in Unicorns?

    lack of evidence perhaps. ;) :think:
    ...
    Too bad Mary and Joseph didn't ride into Bethlehem on a Unicorn.
    Actually, that would have been pretty awesome if they did.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Cosmo wrote:
    Too bad Mary and Joseph didn't ride into Bethlehem on a Unicorn.
    Actually, that would have been pretty awesome if they did.

    not sure unicorns are native to that area ;) ... BUT in one of my bibles there is this colour plate of noahs ark and there is a unicorn standing there. so maybe....
    hear my name
    take a good look
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    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Cosmo wrote:
    Too bad Mary and Joseph didn't ride into Bethlehem on a Unicorn.
    Actually, that would have been pretty awesome if they did.

    not sure unicorns are native to that area ;) ... BUT in one of my bibles there is this colour plate of noahs ark and there is a unicorn standing there. so maybe....
    ...
    That's right. I remember hearing that the reason WHY there are no Unicorns today was because they were out there pissing rainbows or something, when the Ark left port, right?
    I also heard that the reason why my Manx Cat, Higgins, was missing his tail was because his ancestor was the last animal onto the Ark and the door closed on his tail.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • marcosmarcos Posts: 2,112
    Jeanwah wrote:
    marcos wrote:
    I just believe in me....Yoko and me.

    I love that song.

    Such a great song from such a great album, probably my favorite. Even Imagine touches on this subject.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,430
    I LOVE this line from the article:

    thinking about God may activate the same parts of the brain as thinking about an airplane, a friend or a lamppost

    There's a song or a poem in there, I just know it. It might also explain a little about the guy in another town I often used to see talking to a phone booth. He was on to something. Same thing with the longshoreman I met years ago who snuffed out his cigarette in the palm of his hand and had hair like flames. He was on to something. We call these people crazy, but many of the so-called "crazy" people I've met don't proclaim to know God. They just seem to see things we don't. I wonder what the study would show about their brains?
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  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Hmmmm... interesting but not convinced. The frontal lobes govern a vast array of 'capabilities', planning/problem solving being an example. Following trauma in the 'right' area (eg a stroke) a person can completely lose this capability. So... if a believer suffers a big enough brain injury in relevant areas of the brain, he ceases to believe as he/she used to? Through physical trauma a believer becomes a non believer? Sure, the brain can adapt to a certain point, but what if....? I know brain injury can completely change a person but these are usually 'acquired/learned' traits though education, life, etc. Believing is said to be 'deep within'/'core' - is it therefore not as 'from the soul' as one thinks?
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    "Ultimately, it's not that we use 10 percent of our brains, merely that we only understand about 10 percent of how it functions."

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... t-of-brain

    amazing our brains and so much unknown

    and for me an airplane or lamp post wouldn't be how I would think of a friend :lol:

    And God

    Emotion/feeling is the key, complex reactions within the brain, longterm memory,
    life time experiences negative positive these are contributing factors for
    being a believer, in my opinion. Having come from being an atheist to a believer,
    I have met many now who have, I too wonder what the brain changes are.
    Perhaps a miracle experience changes the brain ... being based in electrical waves
    I can see how this could happen. Maybe my brain grew 3 times that day ;)
    there I thought it was my heart :D

    Hippocampus
    Is particularly involved with memory phenomena, specially with the formation of long-term memory (the one that, sometimes, lasts forever).


    I like saying the word too ;):D
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    Hippocampus....nice word for all my brain exercises on Word With Friends. I must find a way to fit that word in.

    Peace
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    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    brianlux wrote:
    I LOVE this line from the article:

    thinking about God may activate the same parts of the brain as thinking about an airplane, a friend or a lamppost

    There's a song or a poem in there, I just know it. It might also explain a little about the guy in another town I often used to see talking to a phone booth. He was on to something. Same thing with the longshoreman I met years ago who snuffed out his cigarette in the palm of his hand and had hair like flames. He was on to something. We call these people crazy, but many of the so-called "crazy" people I've met don't proclaim to know God. They just seem to see things we don't. I wonder what the study would show about their brains?

    I know, I love that line too! Yeah, I wonder about eccentric habits and how the brain would resemble that, but I'd bet that if you took a Schizophrenic brain, there would be obvious differences... I'd think.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    I'm just wondering why a 'reborn' or one that went from atheist to theist would have a smaller hippocampus. Seeing this is where new memories form (and others stored), one could think that being 'reborn' one would pile up on the new experiences and memories with the hippocampus working overtime and growing!. Again, with brain trauma, should the hippocampus be damaged and not be able to store new memories, can one be 'reborn' as this will be new experience/memory but the damaged hippocampus cannot retain and therefore 'transfer' these as 'emotions' to the rest of the system?

    Is believing a 'learned' experience, 'physically' created by our brain if one is so pre-disposed?

    It's fact that different 'types' of people have differences in the physical appearance of their brains (eg. psychos, criminally insane, etc.). Is this just a manifestation of 'type'?
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