The War on Drugs

he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
edited December 2011 in A Moving Train
or should I say "war on people who use drugs," because you can't find a war against a thing. Well... there is that whole "war on terrorism" thing so we do have a war against a human emotion or tactic... so it isn't unprecedented to fight a war against a non-person or country.

1. drug use has existed for thousands of years and will always exist.
2. it is a basic human right to put whatever you want into your own body. if you don't own your own body... what the fuck do you own?
3. no one gives a shit about "helping the people." the "war" is about money, not about feelings. Like any war.
4. when it comes to drugs that aren't about money (psychedelics) it is about controlling the mind of the public.
5. since the formal start of the "war" in the 80's, there has been almost no progress made.
6. the problems that arise from drug violence is from the illegal trade of drugs almost every time, not because of the general use of drugs.
7. when people are educated about what drugs actually do to you, especially the really dangerous narcotics like meth and heroin, they will be less likely to do them.
8. when the government says that marijuana is just as harmful on smoking black tar heroin, you know that they're either 1) incredibly fucking stupid or 2) lying. either way... why listen?
9. how many billions of dollars are wasted every year on this bullshit?

just some thoughts. what do you think?
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • wholeheartedly agree.

    bump
    1st and only show so far:
    Charlottesville, VA 10/29/2013

    "He who forgets will be destined to remember."
  • The only ones that the system seems to punish are those who become addicted. The addicts are the ones who, most of the time end up in the prison system, where they are then basically put in with hardened criminals. So what happens, these addicts come back out to the street, they are still addicts, but come out worse because of the prison system.

    Instead of spending billions on the “war on drugs” we should spend that money on those who need help. As for marijuana, I don’t think I have ever read that a "marijuana junkie" robbed a person. Is there such a thing? Has anyone ever heard of a marijuana overdose? I think the only overdose may occur is from the munchies. But idiot politicians need to pander to a certain group of people who want to control everything.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited December 2011
    It's all about control.

    Though control doesn't just emanate from some imagined group of suits sitting at the 'top' of whatever society you happen to inhabit. Control works through every level of society, down to your closest relationships. Those people who dictate policy will use any and all means to intimidate and control the people. And unfortunately, most of the time the people will suck it up and propagate it until it becomes so familiar that we forget there was ever a time when it didn't exist. By this I mean new laws, labels, categories, e.t.c. I.e, hemp use was at one time widely accepted. Heroin and opium was also popular and accepted in the late 19th century and early 20th century. Now we're told these things are evil.
    Still, human nature normally triumphs, no matter how hard the bureaucrats try to climb into bed with us.


    "...We have observed that most of the trouble in the world has been caused by ten to twenty percent of folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus. Now your virus is an obligate cellular parasite and my contention is that evil is quite literally a virus parasite occupying a certain brain area which we may term the RIGHT center. The mark of a basic shit is that he has to be right. And right here we must make a diagnostic distinction between the hard-core virus-occupied shit and a plain, ordinary, mean no-good son of a bitch. Some of these sons of bitches don't cause any trouble at all, just want to be left alone."

    - William S. Burroughs - The Place Of Dead Roads‎ (1983), p. 155
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • 7RayZ7RayZ Posts: 488
    Everything is about control in this shit hole. A fucking world of senseless control freaks. Control is out of control.
  • what needs to be done, and won't be because what is practical often is irrelevent as far as the law is concerned, is for drug abuse to be treated as a medical issue rather than as a legal one. attempts to regulate and prevent drug use through a criminal frame work have always been a failure.
    If we look at the policies that have been brought in in Portugal in relation to drugs I think that's where we should be heading
    I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
  • big mickbig mick Hull UK Posts: 773
    I think it should be more about non-punitive treatment and psycho-social input with talking therapies based on cognitive processes and motivation. However if someone commits an offence as an adjunct to their addiction then imprisonment has to be an option.
    Reading England 2006, Manchester England 2009, London England 2010, Manchester 1 2012, EV London 1 2012
  • Just thought I'd throw some opinions out here because I enjoy debate... Your post is appreciated.
    1. Yes.
    2. "Rights" are not tangible permanent things like Platonic forms - they are only what we say they are. But to your point, my diagnosable neighbor does have a "right" to drink a bunch of vodka and chow some mdma but that "right" ends when the consequences of such behaviors lead him to think its okay to blast house music at such a high volume that the pictures on my wall change positions... Just saying that some people who use don't do so responsibly and the effects their behaviors have on others justly or unjustly can get blamed on the substances that they use to manipulate their brain chemistry.
    3. Yes, wars are often about money. But does the war on drugs not also incorporate substance abuse counselors who dedicate their lives to helping those individuals who for whatever reason(s) have turned from users to abusers?
    4. First, I'd argue that controlling public opinion relates to all drugs, not just psychedelics. Second, any drug can be either about money or not. I used to take the train from Eugene, Oregon with lbs. of mushrooms when I was in college and that was definitely about money. And "the family" that used to run all the lsd in the U.S. got taken out because of money. I see the distinction you're trying to make, but I think it's more about supply and demand than the nature of the drug...
    5. Yes.
    6. Sure.
    7. Mostly.
    8. True, though I wonder what gov't agency still tries to push the comparison to heroin? (This obviously relates to #4 and controlling public opinion with misinformation)
    9. Too many.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    mforcier wrote:
    2. "Rights" are not tangible permanent things like Platonic forms - they are only what we say they are. But to your point, my diagnosable neighbor does have a "right" to drink a bunch of vodka and chow some mdma but that "right" ends when the consequences of such behaviors lead him to think its okay to blast house music at such a high volume that the pictures on my wall change positions... Just saying that some people who use don't do so responsibly and the effects their behaviors have on others justly or unjustly can get blamed on the substances that they use to manipulate their brain chemistry.

    That would qualify as unacceptable behaviour under any circumstances, whether he was sober, drunk, or on ecstacy. I used to live beneath a neighbour who was a nuisance because he was an alcoholic, and he used to often aggravate the other residents, but I never considered asking for alcohol to be banned.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Q)What are the Drug facts of life

    A) you die...go to prison or at the very least your life stands still and you gain little to nothing..
    you steal to support you habbit,rob stores and such,you may also sell everything you own for pennys on the dollar to buy drugs not to mention the thing you do to YOUR mind and body,,,,hardining of the arteries
    heart damage,premature aging,loss of brain cells,loss of teeth and hair,irational thoughts and actions that leed to the harm of others and list goes on but as you said it's your body and you should be able to do with it as you wish.

    on positive note it will and does thin out the population of thieves and dirt bags.
    but it also increases the homeless population and kids without parents or born with addictions to
    what ever drugs their parents put into their OWN bodies.

    but yes boys and girls it's your life and your body so fuck it up as you wish and by the way there is no such thing as a drug user who has it under control....just a drug user that is becoming an addict...for the most part.

    been there done that...so really..wake up !
    why don't you ask some of your rock-n-roll heros what good drugs had done for them.

    Godfather.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    ...We have observed that most of the trouble in the world has been caused by ten to twenty percent of folks who can't mind their own business...

    no truer words have ever been written...

    what a silly thing it is...the act of trying to control what some stranger does to themselves...

    If someone wants to get high...there are plenty of ways to do it...legal or otherwise...I never understood why some are illegal and some are legal...they should all be legal...
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • mforcier wrote:
    8. True, though I wonder what gov't agency still tries to push the comparison to heroin? (This obviously relates to #4 and controlling public opinion with misinformation)

    well, most of the propaganda that I see on TV is anti-marijuana.

    and there's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sc ... _drugs_(US)
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    ...We have observed that most of the trouble in the world has been caused by ten to twenty percent of folks who can't mind their own business...

    no truer words have ever been written...

    what a silly thing it is...the act of trying to control what some stranger does to themselves...

    If someone wants to get high...there are plenty of ways to do it...legal or otherwise...I never understood why some are illegal and some are legal...they should all be legal...


    is that your baby in the avatar ?..just something to think about my friend.
    coming from a guy that has been deep into the drug world (20 years ago) I can tell you that drugs and the people that us them are a bad direction for any young person to go in,weed is maybe an exception...but you still have to deal with the people that sell it and those people are usally into other thing's cause the money is huge and just on that end of it makes the risk huge, there are no innocent bystanders in the drug world and it's hard enough to avoid with out legalizing it, by legalizing drugs you might slow down the trafficing a bit but the control on the streets will still be there and people will still be addicted and they will still rob steel and kill to feed a habbit and keep control of their market (black market).
    you guys can laugh at what I say and tell yourselfs that I'm crazy but everything I've posted here is 100% true and no bullshit.


    Godfather.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Godfather. wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    ...We have observed that most of the trouble in the world has been caused by ten to twenty percent of folks who can't mind their own business...

    no truer words have ever been written...

    what a silly thing it is...the act of trying to control what some stranger does to themselves...

    If someone wants to get high...there are plenty of ways to do it...legal or otherwise...I never understood why some are illegal and some are legal...they should all be legal...


    is that your baby in the avatar ?..just something to think about my friend.
    coming from a guy that has been deep into the drug world (20 years ago) I can tell you that drugs and the people that us them are a bad direction for any young person to go in,weed is maybe an exception...but you still have to deal with the people that sell it and those people are usally into other thing's cause the money is huge and just on that end of it makes the risk huge, there are no innocent bystanders in the drug world and it's hard enough to avoid with out legalizing it, by legalizing drugs you might slow down the trafficing a bit but the control on the streets will still be there and people will still be addicted and they will still rob steel and kill to feed a habbit and keep control of their market (black market).
    you guys can laugh at what I say and tell yourselfs that I'm crazy but everything I've posted here is 100% true and no bullshit.


    Godfather.


    I won't diminish your opinion on the matter...you certainly can believe whatever you like about drugs...my whole contention is that a person should have the ability to ruin their life if they so choose...it isn't up to me to tell them how to live it...it should only be a crime when it infringes on the rights of other people in a criminal way...abuse, neglect of children, theft, murder, etc...all of those things infringe on the rights of others and should be criminally punished...but getting high by itself is a harmful(less) act only to the person taking the drug. You can be against drugs...but I don't understand being against letting someone live their own life and make their own choices, dumb or not...

    If heroin were legal this second, I wouldn't come anywhere near it. If mushrooms were legal now, I wouldn't come anywhere near them...if weed were legal now I wouldn't smoke...but I can tell you that I will always support measures to give someone else the opportunity to make that choice for themselves...

    I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree

    edit: and yes she is my kid...
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    mforcier wrote:
    2. "Rights" are not tangible permanent things like Platonic forms - they are only what we say they are. But to your point, my diagnosable neighbor does have a "right" to drink a bunch of vodka and chow some mdma but that "right" ends when the consequences of such behaviors lead him to think its okay to blast house music at such a high volume that the pictures on my wall change positions... Just saying that some people who use don't do so responsibly and the effects their behaviors have on others justly or unjustly can get blamed on the substances that they use to manipulate their brain chemistry.

    That would qualify as unacceptable behaviour under any circumstances, whether he was sober, drunk, or on ecstacy. I used to live beneath a neighbour who was a nuisance because he was an alcoholic, and he used to often aggravate the other residents, but I never considered asking for alcohol to be banned.

    exactly, the problem is the noise and him doing harm to others, directly or indirectly.

    ban the childish behavior, not the milk and cookies.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • mikepegg44 wrote:
    I won't diminish your opinion on the matter...you certainly can believe whatever you like about drugs...my whole contention is that a person should have the ability to ruin their life if they so choose...it isn't up to me to tell them how to live it...it should only be a crime when it infringes on the rights of other people in a criminal way...abuse, neglect of children, theft, murder, etc...all of those things infringe on the rights of others and should be criminally punished...but getting high by itself is a harmful(less) act only to the person taking the drug. You can be against drugs...but I don't understand being against letting someone live their own life and make their own choices, dumb or not...

    If heroin were legal this second, I wouldn't come anywhere near it. If mushrooms were legal now, I wouldn't come anywhere near them...if weed were legal now I wouldn't smoke...but I can tell you that I will always support measures to give someone else the opportunity to make that choice for themselves...

    I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree

    edit: and yes she is my kid...

    it seems so simple. I find it funny that the anti-drug people are also the republican "classically liberal" people. How things have changed over the past hundred years or so.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    I won't diminish your opinion on the matter...you certainly can believe whatever you like about drugs...my whole contention is that a person should have the ability to ruin their life if they so choose...it isn't up to me to tell them how to live it...it should only be a crime when it infringes on the rights of other people in a criminal way...abuse, neglect of children, theft, murder, etc...all of those things infringe on the rights of others and should be criminally punished...but getting high by itself is a harmful(less) act only to the person taking the drug. You can be against drugs...but I don't understand being against letting someone live their own life and make their own choices, dumb or not...

    If heroin were legal this second, I wouldn't come anywhere near it. If mushrooms were legal now, I wouldn't come anywhere near them...if weed were legal now I wouldn't smoke...but I can tell you that I will always support measures to give someone else the opportunity to make that choice for themselves...

    I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree

    edit: and yes she is my kid...

    it seems so simple. I find it funny that the anti-drug people are also the republican "classically liberal" people. How things have changed over the past hundred years or so.


    drugs death and prision or the streets don't care if you are a republican or a democrate :lol:
    and the guy selling drugs to your little sister or brother don't much care about you or them either, and tell me what you know about drug addiction a 100 years ago...no really I would love to hear. :lol:
    just saying that if drugs were legalized it would pop the lid open on a can whoop-ass that would leave the public dazed and wondering what the hell did we do ? this ain't like booze and it ain't as simple as just a little weed.

    Godfather.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Godfather. wrote:


    :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    well played...however I highly doubt the national drug control office is willing to put themselves out of business. so the propaganda war continues...pump that federal money into the war...what a waste...all in an attempt to not let people live their own life...
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    petejm043 wrote:
    The only ones that the system seems to punish are those who become addicted. The addicts are the ones who, most of the time end up in the prison system, where they are then basically put in with hardened criminals. So what happens, these addicts come back out to the street, they are still addicts, but come out worse because of the prison system.

    Instead of spending billions on the “war on drugs” we should spend that money on those who need help. As for marijuana, I don’t think I have ever read that a "marijuana junkie" robbed a person. Is there such a thing? Has anyone ever heard of a marijuana overdose? I think the only overdose may occur is from the munchies. But idiot politicians need to pander to a certain group of people who want to control everything.

    i have done some stupid shit for my smoke. then again, i was addicted to several things at once and as a young teenager, so i really didn't know where i was at in the grand scheme of things and what buzz i needed. it surely wasn't just the weed.

    i have smoked so much good grass in one sitting that i fell out and had to lie down. woke up hours later high as hell. never puked and stuff. was perfectly fine actually.

    am i a marijuana addict? yeah sure i am. i crave grass like others might crave booze or something. it is easier to quit weed than any other drug or alcohol though.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited December 2011
    Godfather. wrote:
    drugs death and prision or the streets don't care if you are a republican or a democrate :lol:
    and the guy selling drugs to your little sister or brother don't much care about you or them either, and tell me what you know about drug addiction a 100 years ago...no really I would love to hear. :lol:
    just saying that if drugs were legalized it would pop the lid open on a can whoop-ass that would leave the public dazed and wondering what the hell did we do ? this ain't like booze and it ain't as simple as just a little weed.

    Godfather.
    i been a drug addict and alcoholic on and off since i was 13 or 14 years old. not one time have i or my friends died, been to prison because of drugs or booze, and not one of us have been homeless. some of the best dope comes from rigid republicans w/ old money from back when great grandfather worked 16 hrs a day 7 days a week for the railroad and farmed and bought farms and bought real estate.

    the best lawyers in town are on cocaine, booze, and nailing all their female bees. they are living like kings and queens while snorting and chugging the fastlife.

    the united states government is full of shit beyond what any of us can invision as something comprehensible.

    alcohol and cigarettes being slung by the warmest of the warm, our wonderful uncle Sam, god bless his soul. stupid piece of shit d.c. politicians. i can't stand it any more.

    and here i was months ago pretty much demanding cigarettes be illegal... i now know i was dead wrong in my position. we are free, god dammit.

    we the people of the united states of america demand drugs and whatever other substances we desire to be legal and or decriminalized. the war on drugs is a complete waste of time and money and only provokes use.

    and god bless the international drug smugglers, famers near and far, and the zig zag rolling papers from france. :mrgreen:

    why can't the united states government study the model of the Netherlands and try something like that here?

    sex and drugs. many would appreaciate the red light district and a legal bong hit or 13. and what about our national debt to china and whom ever else?

    go get em, newt gingrich, you stupid shit.

    w/ all due respect, Godfather, you are being brainwashed.
    Post edited by chadwick on
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    Godfather. wrote:
    you guys can laugh at what I say and tell yourselfs that I'm crazy but everything I've posted here is 100% true and no bullshit.
    Godfather. wrote:
    by the way there is no such thing as a drug user who has it under control....just a drug user that is becoming an addict...for the most part.

    I dont think you're crazy, but a lot of what you say is opinion in your first two posts...But I do find it interesting that you would say(for the most part) that there are no drug users that have it under control. I suppose we all have different experiences with drugs and people involved in them, but I have had many, many friends over the years who are/were lawyers, doctors, and business people who use several drugs on a regular basis and have complete control. That may be considered and addict though, I guess. ;)
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    ...6. the problems that arise from drug violence is from the illegal trade of drugs almost every time, not because of the general use of drugs...

    at which time it stops being about drugs and starts being about money(as if it wasnt always).
    hear my name
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    hold my hand
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    i just need to say
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    Coke is used far more among Lawyers and Bankers than any other segment of poplulation imo.

    I see it all the time.
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    Smellyman wrote:
    Coke is used far more among Lawyers and Bankers than any other segment of poplulation imo.

    I see it all the time.
    and the rush linbaugh types

    they scream for druggies to be jailed yet they are raging addicts very scared to come out and be who they truly are. this the life of a coward... a very spoiled coward @ that
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    chadwick wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    the best lawyers in town are on cocaine, booze, and nailing all their female bees. they are living like kings and queens while snorting and chugging the fastlife.

    True, and funny. :lol:
  • big mickbig mick Hull UK Posts: 773
    I thought this thread was about the war on drugs, not an admission for WHO'S on drugs? Too many admissions...... Drugs generally are bad news, tear families apart and destroy lives. There are exceptions but your average Joe is the guy who will suffer most. Treatment is the best option, but I'm talking Class A drugs not weed.
    Reading England 2006, Manchester England 2009, London England 2010, Manchester 1 2012, EV London 1 2012
  • but isn't that really the overall point, that use/addiction/abuse should be treated as medical not criminal
    I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    chadwick wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    drugs death and prision or the streets don't care if you are a republican or a democrate :lol:
    and the guy selling drugs to your little sister or brother don't much care about you or them either, and tell me what you know about drug addiction a 100 years ago...no really I would love to hear. :lol:
    just saying that if drugs were legalized it would pop the lid open on a can whoop-ass that would leave the public dazed and wondering what the hell did we do ? this ain't like booze and it ain't as simple as just a little weed.

    Godfather.
    i been a drug addict and alcoholic on and off since i was 13 or 14 years old. not one time have i or my friends died, been to prison because of drugs or booze, and not one of us have been homeless. some of the best dope comes from rigid republicans w/ old money from back when great grandfather worked 16 hrs a day 7 days a week for the railroad and farmed and bought farms and bought real estate.

    the best lawyers in town are on cocaine, booze, and nailing all their female bees. they are living like kings and queens while snorting and chugging the fastlife.

    the united states government is full of shit beyond what any of us can invision as something comprehensible.

    alcohol and cigarettes being slung by the warmest of the warm, our wonderful uncle Sam, god bless his soul. stupid piece of shit d.c. politicians. i can't stand it any more.

    and here i was months ago pretty much demanding cigarettes be illegal... i now know i was dead wrong in my position. we are free, god dammit.

    we the people of the united states of america demand drugs and whatever other substances we desire to be legal and or decriminalized. the war on drugs is a complete waste of time and money and only provokes use.

    and god bless the international drug smugglers, famers near and far, and the zig zag rolling papers from france. :mrgreen:

    why can't the united states government study the model of the Netherlands and try something like that here?

    sex and drugs. many would appreaciate the red light district and a legal bong hit or 13. and what about our national debt to china and whom ever else?

    go get em, newt gingrich, you stupid shit.

    w/ all due respect, Godfather, you are being brainwashed.

    no my friend I haven't been brain washed by the police or the government but I have lived and experianced drug addiction(16 year addict) and during that time have lost too many friends to drugs and
    and if we were not on a forum I could rattle off at least 10 names of guys that went to prision and just as many that died and all directly related to drugs.

    Godfather.
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