Iraq War Officially Ends...

MayDay Malone

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

which is precisely why america, the leader of the free world or whatever you want to call it this week should have fucking known better. we should have been the leader that we claim and pretend to be, and really researched the situation before going all shock and awe on a bunch of civilians.

indiscriminate killing is murder. no matter who does it.

you can take issue with my calling civillian deaths as murder all you want. but that is exactly what it is. state approved murder. nothing more, nothing less. in my post murder is implied when talking about soldiers, because getting murdered or murdering someone else at the push of a button is either in the job description or an occupational hazard.

does close to a million civilian deaths = the nearly 4000 killed on 9/11 and all of our dead soldiers? only if you belleve that americans are superior to those in the middle east. and that superiority complex is one of the main reasons we have the problems that we do have. our arrogance is sickening. and then we wonder why we are not liked in much of the world.

Godfather. wrote:

with no disrespect intended towards you or your post bro, why is the word "murder" used when ever the American side of this war is commented on ?
how many people where murdered in the twin towers, or by the suicide bombers that targeted populated aeras around the world,I don't like the fact that we had to go to war either it scares the shit out of me thinking my nephew and niece had to go or my friends that had to go or that my son may someday have to go , we can call it murder all day long and describe it a million different ways but the bottom line is wrong or right it was a retaliation for crimes or murders commited by radical muslims and the countries that protected them and I know...the oil too right ? but anyway people are murdered everyday across the the globe over nothing more than a war some wacko sez is a holy war and all people that don't believe as they do must die, people on here seem to think America is the one and only bad guy in a war when infact I'll bet if take the time to really dig past the hype you might find that America is no more at faul than the other countries like iraq or any other country that incites war in any form for any reason and in the end it's all murder.

Godfather.

Gimme- calling US soldiers "murderers" is appalling.

It sounds like that is exactly what you are doing. I just want to be clear, before I take a nice month long ban for telling you to go do something unholy to yourself.

gimmesometruth27

so let me get this straight, my questioning of the war and what exactly we won and what all these people died for is appalling to you? sometimes we have to ask questions to see if the lessons really sunk in, or if we learned anything at all. in the case of the people attacking me i do not think that they did.

i have presented facts in my posts. you can not dispute them so you attack my posting rather than the information presented.

and yes the iraq war is illegal. please do not derail my thread by starting that pissing match in this one.

me uninformed??

and please provide proof that obama is a marxist. do you know what marxism is anyway?

you are entitled to your opinion. and so am i.

MayDay Malone wrote:

Your endless questions are appalling... Why, why, why? blah, blah, blah...

I remember you once said on here to somebody that the IRAQ war was illegal b/c it was never voted on.

Come on, man... you seem just as uninformed now as you were then.

And regarding Obama's good friends, I am sorry- I left out Chavez.

Our president is a bonafide Marxist. He has more in common with the leaders of the aforementioned countries than any of our former US Presidents. That is my humble opinion.

gimmesometruth27

MayDay Malone wrote:

Gimme- calling US soldiers "murderers" is appalling.

It sounds like that is exactly what you are doing. I just want to be clear, before I take a nice month long ban for telling you to go do something unholy to yourself.

oh so we were over there passing out hugs then??

i stand corrected....

if you kill someone with malice, by definition you are a murderer.

does haditha ring a bell?

what about the kill squad that committed those atrocites.

mikepegg44

MayDay Malone wrote:

Shouldn't have been there to begin with, but pulling out now is WORSE.

Obama should have stayed the course- stayed to ensure Iraq's security, but winning wars is not something defeatists do very well.

The vacuum will be filled by Obama's good buddies: Iran, Russia, Syria, China.

they didn't want us there. We requested to maintain a military presence at the bases in Iraq...The end of the war was a time table started before Obama was president. Not much we could do unless we wanted to topple yet another "government"

And the vacuum created isn't our problem anymore...they could ask us to stay and I am sure we would jump at the chance...fact is things will be better off in the region if we pull out and let them all sort it out.

and I say good, let syria, china, russia, and Iran figure that shit out...it will effect them more directly than us moving forward.

MayDay Malone

mikepegg44 wrote:

MayDay Malone wrote:

Shouldn't have been there to begin with, but pulling out now is WORSE.

Obama should have stayed the course- stayed to ensure Iraq's security, but winning wars is not something defeatists do very well.

The vacuum will be filled by Obama's good buddies: Iran, Russia, Syria, China.

they didn't want us there. We requested to maintain a military presence at the bases in Iraq...The end of the war was a time table started before Obama was president. Not much we could do unless we wanted to topple yet another "government"

And the vacuum created isn't our problem anymore...they could ask us to stay and I am sure we would jump at the chance...fact is things will be better off in the region if we pull out and let them all sort it out.

and I say good, let syria, china, russia, and Iran figure that shit out...it will effect them more directly than us moving forward.

Maybe we just cleared the airspace so Israel can attack Iran.

Obama would never give them permission, and he doesn't want to look bad if they go around him.

So pull out, take another Hawaiian holiday, and watch it on CNN.

MayDay Malone

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

MayDay Malone wrote:

Gimme- calling US soldiers "murderers" is appalling.

It sounds like that is exactly what you are doing. I just want to be clear, before I take a nice month long ban for telling you to go do something unholy to yourself.

oh so we were over there passing out hugs then??

i stand corrected....

if you kill someone with malice, by definition you are a murderer.

does haditha ring a bell?

what about the kill squad that committed those atrocites.

If you want to go around spitting on US soldiers and calling them baby-killers, go ahead, especially like you said, since there was one or two that acted illegally. Just indict them all, Gimme.

That probably plays pretty well in your circles... you get to sound like an intellectual, trash everything American, and regurgitate something you probably heard John Kerry say 40 years ago about "atrocities".

In your circle, smoking pot and talking about perceived injustices passes for socially-conscious action.

In your circle, spitting on US soldiiers and calling them baby-killers or murderers is perceived as a act of courage.


I just thank God for the soldier, that your circle is so small.

gimmesometruth27

MayDay Malone wrote:

If you want to go around spitting on US soldiers and calling them baby-killers, go ahead, especially like you said, since there was one or two that acted illegally. Just indict them all, Gimme.

That probably plays pretty well in your circles... you get to sound like an intellectual, trash everything American, and regurgitate something you probably heard John Kerry say 40 years ago about "atrocities".

In your circle, smoking pot and talking about perceived injustices passes for socially-conscious action.

In your circle, spitting on US soldiiers and calling them baby-killers or murderers is perceived as a act of courage.


I just thank God for the soldier, that your circle is so small.

again, address my facts, not me, or your impression of me.

who said baby killers? do you want me to call them "collateral damage"??

i can criticize my government and it's policies, just as you can support them.

i can be critical of military action and the people that carry out those actions. free country, first amendment yada yada... the fact is i am presenting facts. you are putting words into my mouth.

let's keep this on topic before it gets personal. i am turning the other cheek, but i do not apprreciate your attacks on me.

let's start here.....what is marxism? how is obama a marxist.

polaris_x

MayDay Malone wrote:

That probably plays pretty well in your circles... you get to sound like an intellectual, trash everything American, and regurgitate something you probably heard John Kerry say 40 years ago about "atrocities".

talk about regurgitating ... care to answer the guy's question on what proof you have obama is a marxist and/or answer the question on whether you even know what a marxist is?

Drowned Out

MayDay Malone wrote:

If you want to go around spitting on US soldiers and calling them baby-killers, go ahead, especially like you said, since there was one or two that acted illegally. Just indict them all, Gimme.

That probably plays pretty well in your circles... you get to sound like an intellectual, trash everything American, and regurgitate something you probably heard John Kerry say 40 years ago about "atrocities".

In your circle, smoking pot and talking about perceived injustices passes for socially-conscious action.

In your circle, spitting on US soldiiers and calling them baby-killers or murderers is perceived as a act of courage.


I just thank God for the soldier, that your circle is so small.

puff puff pass....

MayDay Malone

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

MayDay Malone wrote:

If you want to go around spitting on US soldiers and calling them baby-killers, go ahead, especially like you said, since there was one or two that acted illegally. Just indict them all, Gimme.

That probably plays pretty well in your circles... you get to sound like an intellectual, trash everything American, and regurgitate something you probably heard John Kerry say 40 years ago about "atrocities".

In your circle, smoking pot and talking about perceived injustices passes for socially-conscious action.

In your circle, spitting on US soldiiers and calling them baby-killers or murderers is perceived as a act of courage.


I just thank God for the soldier, that your circle is so small.

again, address my facts, not me, or your impression of me.

who said baby killers? do you want me to call them "collateral damage"??

i can criticize my government and it's policies, just as you can support them.

i can be critical of military action and the people that carry out those actions. free country, first amendment yada yada... the fact is i am presenting facts. you are putting words into my mouth.

let's keep this on topic before it gets personal. i am turning the other cheek, but i do not apprreciate your attacks on me.

let's start here.....what is marxism? how is obama a marxist.

You have presented zero facts, other than a debatable number of people died in a war.

That's groundbreaking.

You have been offering the opinion that US soldiers are murderers.


Last time you tried to present facts on the Iraq war you told us all the war was illegal because Congress never voted on it. Then someone posted the congressional vote tallies, and you were real quiet for about a week.

Tuck that tail and whine about your other cheek... but don't pretend you are dealing facts here.

You are just baiting people w/ inflammatory opinions like calling soldiers murderers.

I could call you a murderer, b/c you voted for some politician, that voted for the Iraq war. By your logic, you are just as guilty of murder, as the soldier.

But your logic is still wrong...

Anyways, I have a couple of nice trade deals pending, and cannot currently endure a Xmas ban, just to tell you something about you that you don't know (Ron White- for those paying attention).

Im out...

Cosmo

MayDay Malone wrote:

Shouldn't have been there to begin with, but pulling out now is WORSE.

Obama should have stayed the course- stayed to ensure Iraq's security, but winning wars is not something defeatists do very well.

The vacuum will be filled by Obama's good buddies: Iran, Russia, Syria, China.

...
If we shouldn't be there... why stay there?
Iraq is going to still be Iraq whether we stay there another year, another decade, another 1,000 years. We cannot change their culture and religion with a military occupation.
We created the vacuum by taking out the Sunni power that was keeping th Shi'ia minority of Iran out. The natural order of things in that region is for the Shi'ia minority to form a bloc to contend with the surrounding Sunni majority. We took out Saddam Hussein and allowed an open door for Iran.
If anyone is responsible for Iranian influence to seep into Iraq... it is us. Civil war is in Iraq's future, whether we like it or not... our presence is just stiffling it. Sitting on a powder keg that has a fuse (that we lit) is not in our best interests.

gimmesometruth27

nice dodge...

i presented fact on our dead soldiers and the cost. and the accepted figures of iraqi dead and the figure from the lancet. read my and byrnzie's post please.

you just don't like to hear the honest truth. nothing wrong with that. the truth hurts sometimes. and yes sometimes it is hard to admit when you are wrong and have made a mistake, which is my opinion on the iraq war. we were wrong and it was one big expensive mistake.

what part of murderer do you not get? i said that it is part of the job description and can also be an occupational hazard. you go to war you might have to kill someone, or you might end up in a flag draped coffin yourself.

and since you keep bringing it up, congress did not vote to declare war on iraq. they voted to authorize use of force, but we did not formally declare war. you might call it semantics, but the fact is that.

MayDay Malone wrote:

You have presented zero facts, other than a debatable number of people died in a war.

That's groundbreaking.

You have been offering the opinion that US soldiers are murderers.


Last time you tried to present facts on the Iraq war you told us all the war was illegal because Congress never voted on it. Then someone posted the congressional vote tallies, and you were real quiet for about a week.

Tuck that tail and whine about your other cheek... but don't pretend you are dealing facts here.

You are just baiting people w/ inflammatory opinions like calling soldiers murderers.

I could call you a murderer, b/c you voted for some politician, that voted for the Iraq war. By your logic, you are just as guilty of murder, as the soldier.

But your logic is still wrong...

Anyways, I have a couple of nice trade deals pending, and cannot currently endure a Xmas ban, just to tell you something about you that you don't know (Ron White- for those paying attention).

Im out...

MayDay Malone

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

nice dodge...

i presented fact on our dead soldiers and the cost. and the accepted figures of iraqi dead and the figure from the lancet. read my and byrnzie's post please.

you just don't like to hear the honest truth. nothing wrong with that. the truth hurts sometimes. and yes sometimes it is hard to admit when you are wrong and have made a mistake, which is my opinion on the iraq war. we were wrong and it was one big expensive mistake.

what part of murderer do you not get? i said that it is part of the job description and can also be an occupational hazard. you go to war you might have to kill someone, or you might end up in a flag draped coffin yourself.

and since you keep bringing it up, congress did not vote to declare war on iraq. they voted to authorize use of force, but we did not formally declare war. you might call it semantics, but the fact is that.

MayDay Malone wrote:

You have presented zero facts, other than a debatable number of people died in a war.

That's groundbreaking.

You have been offering the opinion that US soldiers are murderers.


Last time you tried to present facts on the Iraq war you told us all the war was illegal because Congress never voted on it. Then someone posted the congressional vote tallies, and you were real quiet for about a week.

Tuck that tail and whine about your other cheek... but don't pretend you are dealing facts here.

You are just baiting people w/ inflammatory opinions like calling soldiers murderers.

I could call you a murderer, b/c you voted for some politician, that voted for the Iraq war. By your logic, you are just as guilty of murder, as the soldier.

But your logic is still wrong...

Anyways, I have a couple of nice trade deals pending, and cannot currently endure a Xmas ban, just to tell you something about you that you don't know (Ron White- for those paying attention).

Im out...

semantics, huh?

Looks like you're right, it CAN be hard for you to admit mistakes...

he still stands

Tension rise as Iraq seeks Sunni VP arrest

http://news.yahoo.com/iraq-issues-arres ... 08037.html

well, we got two days of PEACE out of that eight year war. Definitely worth the loss of life and trillions of dollars spent.

gimmesometruth27

MayDay Malone wrote:

semantics, huh?

Looks like you're right, it CAN be hard for you to admit mistakes...

what is marxism?

actually let's get back on track.

who here belleves that the iraq war and occupation was worth it?

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

MayDay Malone wrote:

semantics, huh?

Looks like you're right, it CAN be hard for you to admit mistakes...

what is marxism?

actually let's get back on track.

who here belleves that the iraq war and occupation was worth it?

maybe you should the iraqies that helped to remove the statue of sadam hussian that question
I'll bet life is a little better for a lot of people now especially the villegers who might have survived
the attacks from "chimical ali".

Godfather.

MayDay Malone

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

MayDay Malone wrote:

semantics, huh?

Looks like you're right, it CAN be hard for you to admit mistakes...

what is marxism?

actually let's get back on track.

who here belleves that the iraq war and occupation was worth it?

The families of these 5,000 (mostly women and children) believe it was worth it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RT6e2QD ... re=related

They understand the difference b/w US soldiers and murderers.

Why not educate yourself on the atrocities that Saddam committed, such as the Halabja Massacre, and denounce evil and genocide when you see it? ...or do you only reserve hatred and disdain for the US Soldier?

gimmesometruth27

MayDay Malone wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

MayDay Malone wrote:

semantics, huh?

Looks like you're right, it CAN be hard for you to admit mistakes...

what is marxism?

actually let's get back on track.

who here belleves that the iraq war and occupation was worth it?

The families of these 5,000 (mostly women and children) believe it was worth it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RT6e2QD ... re=related

They understand the difference b/w US soldiers and murderers.

Why not educate yourself on the atrocities that Saddam committed, such as the Halabja Massacre, and denounce evil and genocide when you see it? ...or do you only reserve hatred and disdain for the US Soldier?

the question was not about those people in your video. i asked who here on this forum thought it was worth it and why.

we did not go there to avenge those people that saddam attacked.

and until you answer one of my questions i will not bother to waste my time replying to you. thanks for derailing the thread.

MayDay Malone

Derailing? I'm talking about Saddam's war crimes in a thread about the Iraq war... If it wasn't for me, this thread would be on the ash heap by now...

But I'll play your silly game...

I think it was worth it.

To ensure no child has to writhe to death from VX nerve gas again- no matter where they live or what they believe.

But everything is so clear to armchair hippies that wax philisophical b/w rolling joints in the basement, so how would I know?

gimmesometruth27

Godfather. wrote:

maybe you should the iraqies that helped to remove the statue of sadam hussian that question
I'll bet life is a little better for a lot of people now especially the villegers who might have survived
the attacks from "chimical ali".

Godfather.

i would ask them if i could. i am sure at the time in their euphoria would have made them say yes. now with all of the infighting of their new government and the sectarian disagreements they might not think it is so worth it now. some of them still don't have electricity...