Canadian Health Needs To Include Co-Pay

lukin2006

Canadian health-care conversation needs to include ‘co-payments’: David Dodge

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... vid-dodge/

I don't about other provinces...in Ontario we pay a Health tax.

What I think the government needs to do is expand to include alternative health care.

As an example...I need foot surgery...I can have a podiatrist do it for 2500.00 in their clinic which is not covered by provincial health insurance, or an orthopedic surgeon in a hospital, which I'm pretty sure is going to cost more so I choose to get in queue and wait.

Kel Varnsen

lukin2006 wrote:

Canadian health-care conversation needs to include ‘co-payments’: David Dodge

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... vid-dodge/

I don't about other provinces...in Ontario we pay a Health tax.

What I think the government needs to do is expand to include alternative health care.

As an example...I need foot surgery...I can have a podiatrist do it for 2500.00 in their clinic which is not covered by provincial health insurance, or an orthopedic surgeon in a hospital, which I'm pretty sure is going to cost more so I choose to get in queue and wait.

That ontario health tax thing is so stupid. As if anyone believes that the $500 or so everyone pays is all the ontario government needs to cover OHIP, hospitals and all other health care expenses, and large portions of the HST, the provincial income tax and federal transfer payments aren't also going to cover health care.

lukin2006

Kel Varnsen wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Canadian health-care conversation needs to include ‘co-payments’: David Dodge

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... vid-dodge/

I don't about other provinces...in Ontario we pay a Health tax.

What I think the government needs to do is expand to include alternative health care.

As an example...I need foot surgery...I can have a podiatrist do it for 2500.00 in their clinic which is not covered by provincial health insurance, or an orthopedic surgeon in a hospital, which I'm pretty sure is going to cost more so I choose to get in queue and wait.

That ontario health tax thing is so stupid. As if anyone believes that the $500 or so everyone pays is all the ontario government needs to cover OHIP, hospitals and all other health care expenses, and large portions of the HST, the provincial income tax and federal transfer payments aren't also going to cover health care.

I agree...just makes it near impossible for McGuilty to institute any more health care levies.

polaris_x

our population is aging and nearly every major incidence of illnesses are on the rise (diabetes, cancer) ... the deal martin struck is expiring soon ... at least in ontario we've seen some improvement ...

lukin2006

The thing about the so called Ontario Health Care Premium (Tax) is that it should appear as a separate deduction off our pay...people are forgetting that it's not suppose to be a tax, it's a health care premium...it won't be to long before the government tries to slip another healthcare tax by us.

It should also be separately audited, but the McGuilty government doesn't want that, because as of now it's rolled into general coffers.

It's probably time as Dodge says to have that talk...but can most Ontarians or Canadians handle the truth...of course I have trouble believing that health care can't be better funded...just quit wasting money...ie 2 billion for G8/G20, over 1 billion gun registry (soon to be gone), 1 billion e health which is nowhere near implemented, how did the Afghan war cost us? 10 billion or so? 1500 or more a day they are paying Don Drummond consulting fees.

All that wasted money sure could improve health care.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

over 1 billion gun registry (soon to be gone),

the gun registry only costs like a $1-2 million a year to run now ... not an exorbitant expense that every single police force including the RCMP supports ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

over 1 billion gun registry (soon to be gone),

the gun registry only costs like a $1-2 million a year to run now ... not an exorbitant expense that every single police force including the RCMP supports ...

Not the issue...they billion 2 billion setting it up...money that could have been spent on much better things like health and education.

Not to get off topic...but many of these police forces are the ones that violated people's rights at the G20? Not surprised they want to keep it.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

Not the issue...they billion 2 billion setting it up...money that could have been spent on much better things like health and education.

Not to get off topic...but many of these police forces are the ones that violated people's rights at the G20? Not surprised they want to keep it.

well ... that money is spent already ... do you build a home? ... go over budget and then decide to tear it down after? ... makes no sense ...

but as far as our health care goes ... i think we need a holistic approach ... we need to put money into prevention ... i find it sad that we're reading about the fact moving to green energy is gonna cost people more ... i mean - what the cuss!? ... of course its gonna cost more but there are other benefits ... we never look at the health care implications of our decisions ... it's short sighted ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Not the issue...they billion 2 billion setting it up...money that could have been spent on much better things like health and education.

Not to get off topic...but many of these police forces are the ones that violated people's rights at the G20? Not surprised they want to keep it.

well ... that money is spent already ... do you build a home? ... go over budget and then decide to tear it down after? ... makes no sense ...

but as far as our health care goes ... i think we need a holistic approach ... we need to put money into prevention ... i find it sad that we're reading about the fact moving to green energy is gonna cost people more ... i mean - what the cuss!? ... of course its gonna cost more but there are other benefits ... we never look at the health care implications of our decisions ... it's short sighted ...

I agree...we need a more preventative approach...the health care system should include chiropractors, naturepaths, physiotherapist more nutritionists.

Green energy cost more...but if people can't afford it...people will not invest in it...we kind of live in a society where people tend not to look to far in advance.

I wish the government had kept the wind turbines public and Incorporated the into Ontario Hydro and placed them on crown land...imo.

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Not the issue...they billion 2 billion setting it up...money that could have been spent on much better things like health and education.

Not to get off topic...but many of these police forces are the ones that violated people's rights at the G20? Not surprised they want to keep it.

well ... that money is spent already ... do you build a home? ... go over budget and then decide to tear it down after? ... makes no sense ...

but as far as our health care goes ... i think we need a holistic approach ... we need to put money into prevention ... i find it sad that we're reading about the fact moving to green energy is gonna cost people more ... i mean - what the cuss!? ... of course its gonna cost more but there are other benefits ... we never look at the health care implications of our decisions ... it's short sighted ...

and it shouldn't cost 1-2 million...why do people have to pay to register their cars every year...as a non gun owner it offends me that gun owners do not pay to register their guns?


my point is if we maybe if we quit wasting money we'd have more money to invest in health.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

and it shouldn't cost 1-2 million...why do people have to pay to register their cars every year...as a non gun owner it offends me that gun owners do not pay to register their guns?


my point is if we maybe if we quit wasting money we'd have more money to invest in health.

it costs money because you have to develop the infrastructure or systems in order for police to query off of it ...

i agree - gov't should be efficient ... my only point is that the gun registry as it stands now is not a wasteful program ... it's a drop in the bucket to run and it can help save lives ...

Kel Varnsen

polaris_x wrote:

but as far as our health care goes ... i think we need a holistic approach ... we need to put money into prevention ... i find it sad that we're reading about the fact moving to green energy is gonna cost people more ... i mean - what the cuss!? ... of course its gonna cost more but there are other benefits ... we never look at the health care implications of our decisions ... it's short sighted ...

Honestly I think a really easy way to make the health care system better is to give nurses (or senior nurses with higher qualifications or nurse practioners) more power. in 2010 my wife was pregnant and at one point she developed a problem related to her pregnancy. She phoned her OB's office who told her to go to the ER. As soon as we saw the triage nurse she told us we would have to wait for a doctor but she would likely need an ultrasound and a blood test (which was sort of what the nurse from the OB's office told my wife over the phone) . The stupid thing was though we had to wait at least 6 hours to see a doctor, at which point he could give the order for the blood work and the ultrasound. At that point it was another hour at least for the blood work to come back, and then the ultrasound lab was closed so we had to come back the next day. If the triage nurse had just be able to take blook and give the order for the ultrasound, when we saw the doctor 6 hours later we could have had the all the results in hand and wouldn't have needed to wait for the blood lab, and wouldn't have needed to come back to the hospital. This would have saved the hospital hours of time in dealing with us. If they could do that for everyone

Kel Varnsen

polaris_x wrote:

i agree - gov't should be efficient ... my only point is that the gun registry as it stands now is not a wasteful program ... it's a drop in the bucket to run and it can help save lives ...

Can it save lives though? One of my co-workers is pretty big into hunting so I have talked to him about. Even without the gun registry, to purchase a gun you still need a firearms licence. It is a bit of work just to get that too, so it is not like without the registry they are just handing out guns to anyone. Plus if they are already keeping track of anyone who has a licence to own a gun, and they keep track of people who have hunting licences, how much much safety does knowing exactly how many guns someone have really give?

polaris_x

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Honestly I think a really easy way to make the health care system better is to give nurses (or senior nurses with higher qualifications or nurse practioners) more power. in 2010 my wife was pregnant and at one point she developed a problem related to her pregnancy. She phoned her OB's office who told her to go to the ER. As soon as we saw the triage nurse she told us we would have to wait for a doctor but she would likely need an ultrasound and a blood test (which was sort of what the nurse from the OB's office told my wife over the phone) . The stupid thing was though we had to wait at least 6 hours to see a doctor, at which point he could give the order for the blood work and the ultrasound. At that point it was another hour at least for the blood work to come back, and then the ultrasound lab was closed so we had to come back the next day. If the triage nurse had just be able to take blook and give the order for the ultrasound, when we saw the doctor 6 hours later we could have had the all the results in hand and wouldn't have needed to wait for the blood lab, and wouldn't have needed to come back to the hospital. This would have saved the hospital hours of time in dealing with us. If they could do that for everyone

i suspect your issue is a matter of standards, bureaucracy and dollars ...

firstly ... i'm sure for every instance of something your wife experienced - we have a nurse who wants to be a doctor misdiagnose ... secondly, i suspect giving senior nurses or such that kind of authority would require some certification and increased pay ... all of which adds to health care costs ...

i'm not sure exactly what the solution is overall but when we see incidences of diabetes and such on the rise - i think there are things we can do to address that which in turn would save money in the long term ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

and it shouldn't cost 1-2 million...why do people have to pay to register their cars every year...as a non gun owner it offends me that gun owners do not pay to register their guns?


my point is if we maybe if we quit wasting money we'd have more money to invest in health.

it costs money because you have to develop the infrastructure or systems in order for police to query off of it ...

i agree - gov't should be efficient ... my only point is that the gun registry as it stands now is not a wasteful program ... it's a drop in the bucket to run and it can help save lives ...

They spent 2 billion...that should have more than set up the infrastructure...

how come passport Canada runs without government money? Canada Post? because they charge fees...why did the gun registry quit charging fees? all that money invested into the gun registry could also be invested in health.

polaris_x

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Can it save lives though? One of my co-workers is pretty big into hunting so I have talked to him about. Even without the gun registry, to purchase a gun you still need a firearms licence. It is a bit of work just to get that too, so it is not like without the registry they are just handing out guns to anyone. Plus if they are already keeping track of anyone who has a licence to own a gun, and they keep track of people who have hunting licences, how much much safety does knowing exactly how many guns someone have really give?

the registry is the system by which police forces can query the information ... harper is gonna scrap it along with all the historical information ... police query that database like 17,000 a day and since it's inception deaths by long guns have been reduced dramatically ...

Kel Varnsen

polaris_x wrote:

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Can it save lives though? One of my co-workers is pretty big into hunting so I have talked to him about. Even without the gun registry, to purchase a gun you still need a firearms licence. It is a bit of work just to get that too, so it is not like without the registry they are just handing out guns to anyone. Plus if they are already keeping track of anyone who has a licence to own a gun, and they keep track of people who have hunting licences, how much much safety does knowing exactly how many guns someone have really give?

the registry is the system by which police forces can query the information ... harper is gonna scrap it along with all the historical information ... police query that database like 17,000 a day and since it's inception deaths by long guns have been reduced dramatically ...

But again I ask, if the government is arleady keeping track of how many people have firearms licences, how much more information, with relation to public safety, does keeping track of every last gun those licence holders own really give them?

lukin2006

Kel Varnsen wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

i agree - gov't should be efficient ... my only point is that the gun registry as it stands now is not a wasteful program ... it's a drop in the bucket to run and it can help save lives ...

Can it save lives though? One of my co-workers is pretty big into hunting so I have talked to him about. Even without the gun registry, to purchase a gun you still need a firearms licence. It is a bit of work just to get that too, so it is not like without the registry they are just handing out guns to anyone. Plus if they are already keeping track of anyone who has a licence to own a gun, and they keep track of people who have hunting licences, how much much safety does knowing exactly how many guns someone have really give?

I work with several people who are big time hunters...and they say the same thing...plus the all the hunting license's and tags they buy...they already know who likely has a gun.

The part that should make people nervous is that a co workers ex wife got a call asking if the divorce was a smooth divorce or does he pose a risk of violence.

She could have lied through her teeth and screwed him over big time if she was a bitter person...fortunately for him she was honest...personally I find that kind of intrusive.

lukin2006

Kel Varnsen wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

but as far as our health care goes ... i think we need a holistic approach ... we need to put money into prevention ... i find it sad that we're reading about the fact moving to green energy is gonna cost people more ... i mean - what the cuss!? ... of course its gonna cost more but there are other benefits ... we never look at the health care implications of our decisions ... it's short sighted ...

Honestly I think a really easy way to make the health care system better is to give nurses (or senior nurses with higher qualifications or nurse practioners) more power. in 2010 my wife was pregnant and at one point she developed a problem related to her pregnancy. She phoned her OB's office who told her to go to the ER. As soon as we saw the triage nurse she told us we would have to wait for a doctor but she would likely need an ultrasound and a blood test (which was sort of what the nurse from the OB's office told my wife over the phone) . The stupid thing was though we had to wait at least 6 hours to see a doctor, at which point he could give the order for the blood work and the ultrasound. At that point it was another hour at least for the blood work to come back, and then the ultrasound lab was closed so we had to come back the next day. If the triage nurse had just be able to take blook and give the order for the ultrasound, when we saw the doctor 6 hours later we could have had the all the results in hand and wouldn't have needed to wait for the blood lab, and wouldn't have needed to come back to the hospital. This would have saved the hospital hours of time in dealing with us. If they could do that for everyone

http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/ArticleD ... ?e=3393030

getting this program into more universities would help.

polaris_x

Kel Varnsen wrote:

But again I ask, if the government is arleady keeping track of how many people have firearms licences, how much more information, with relation to public safety, does keeping track of every last gun those licence holders own really give them?

there is no system by which the police can query that info without the registry ... that's the point of the registry ...

Kel Varnsen

polaris_x wrote:

Kel Varnsen wrote:

But again I ask, if the government is arleady keeping track of how many people have firearms licences, how much more information, with relation to public safety, does keeping track of every last gun those licence holders own really give them?

there is no system by which the police can query that info without the registry ... that's the point of the registry ...

But why the need to register every gun to implement that system in the first place? The police can search drivers licences without having a separate police system set up, just by accessing MTO records. Firearms licences are managed by the RCMP so why not just set up a system to allow other law enforcement agencies to search that database, without having to set up a whole separate system where people have to register individual guns, that requires a whole bunch of additional governement workers to manage it.

polaris_x

Kel Varnsen wrote:

But why the need to register every gun to implement that system in the first place? The police can search drivers licences without having a separate police system set up, just by accessing MTO records. Firearms licences are managed by the RCMP so why not just set up a system to allow other law enforcement agencies to search that database, without having to set up a whole separate system where people have to register individual guns, that requires a whole bunch of additional governement workers to manage it.

but those are provincial databases ... can a police officer in BC search someone in PEI now? ... i'm not too sure ... what you are proposing is gonna cost a whack load of money to integrate ... why do that when we already have something that works?

lukin2006

Kel Varnsen wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

Kel Varnsen wrote:

But again I ask, if the government is arleady keeping track of how many people have firearms licences, how much more information, with relation to public safety, does keeping track of every last gun those licence holders own really give them?

there is no system by which the police can query that info without the registry ... that's the point of the registry ...

But why the need to register every gun to implement that system in the first place? The police can search drivers licences without having a separate police system set up, just by accessing MTO records. Firearms licences are managed by the RCMP so why not just set up a system to allow other law enforcement agencies to search that database, without having to set up a whole separate system where people have to register individual guns, that requires a whole bunch of additional governement workers to manage it.

Because that would be make sense...not something the government likes to do...your right they could have improved the existing system.

Kel Varnsen

polaris_x wrote:

Kel Varnsen wrote:

But why the need to register every gun to implement that system in the first place? The police can search drivers licences without having a separate police system set up, just by accessing MTO records. Firearms licences are managed by the RCMP so why not just set up a system to allow other law enforcement agencies to search that database, without having to set up a whole separate system where people have to register individual guns, that requires a whole bunch of additional governement workers to manage it.

but those are provincial databases ... can a police officer in BC search someone in PEI now? ... i'm not too sure ... what you are proposing is gonna cost a whack load of money to integrate ... why do that when we already have something that works?

Why would it cost any more to implement. Like I said the RCMP issues firearms licences, not any of the provinces. Firearms licences were in place long before there was any kind of gun registry. As long as the list of people with firearms licences isn't in a filing cabinet and is actually on a computer somewhere, I don't see why giving local cops access to it would be that hard. Even when the gun registry is gone, the government is still going to be issuing fire arms licences for anyone who wants to buy a gun, and I really don't see why making those people register every gun they own makes anything safer.

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

Kel Varnsen wrote:

But why the need to register every gun to implement that system in the first place? The police can search drivers licences without having a separate police system set up, just by accessing MTO records. Firearms licences are managed by the RCMP so why not just set up a system to allow other law enforcement agencies to search that database, without having to set up a whole separate system where people have to register individual guns, that requires a whole bunch of additional governement workers to manage it.

but those are provincial databases ... can a police officer in BC search someone in PEI now? ... i'm not too sure ... what you are proposing is gonna cost a whack load of money to integrate ... why do that when we already have something that works?

who says it works. the police? these same individuals that violate people rights on a regular basis? how many lost their jobs after the G20? did the chief of police in Toronto lose his job

Whether you like it or not...it will soon be history. Personally dont care either way...just that it should be paid for and supported by gun owners, just like us who have cars or passports pay and support the system.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

who says it works. the police? these same individuals that violate people rights on a regular basis? how many lost their jobs after the G20? did the chief of police in Toronto lose his job

Whether you like it or not...it will soon be history. Personally dont care either way...just that it should be paid for and supported by gun owners, just like us who have cars or passports pay and support the system.

hey ... i'm not a fan of the police - especially when it came to the G20 ... i do think that it isn't just a black and white thing tho ... first and foremost, the feds ignored the police and the city by hosting the fucking event in the heart of toronto ... so, already they were put in a bad position ... then i'm sure there was some pressure from either the provincial or federal gov't to proceed in a certain way ...

having said that - i'm not absolving them for their actions ... but if we look at occupy toronto ... they managed that a hundred times better so have to credit them for not repeating their mistakes ...