Where's the debate?

2

Comments

  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Go Beavers wrote:
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Well, part of the problem is that a lot of the more articulate posters from both sides of the spectrum have either been banned, let their membership lapse, or stopped posting over the last couple years....all while complaining that there is no quality debate. That would include you, Commy......good to see you posting.

    I don't know the history of Commy and his posts, but from what I've seen so far he only gets 2 out of 5 stars.
    well...go thru his post history...he was a very prevalent poster for a lot of years here...and always worth reading. I just clicked on his profile to see if he had some kind of extended absence, or just posted much less frequently...looks like staying away was a new years resolution...I think Triumphant Angel disappeared around the same time, they seemed friendly...miss her here, too.
    I feel weird talkin about him in his thread :lol: ....but ya, seems like most of his recent posts have some underlying smart-assed bitterness to them, less serious than before.
    Hope everything's cool with ya commy.

    Commy, el_kabong, ABooks, Cincy, Drifting, Triumphant, reborn, Polaris, Cosmo, Byrnzie, OutOfBreath, Eliot, Blanche, SundaySilence, Hoon, gimme, evenflow? and many other posters that I've left out, I remember they made this forum very special back then. Not this forum, rather the older boards, the board I think switched maybe 4 or 5 times since the late 90's.

    The pit in 2002-2006-7? Good times, The debate was just about always lively and often intelligent (enough), and people tended to be more upfront about how they felt....But Sadly I reckon that the Boards were monitored by 'Big Brother' cough cough. (perhaps for another thread :P )

    Anyway, all the posters who made the boards so good, way back when. I hope that wherever they are, they are in good health doing well 8-) Fighting the Good Fight.

    The world is a mess, and communication is a great way to start fixing things.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,675
    This is one of the more interesting threads of late on AMT. One of the things I like about this section of the forum is that it's often a good resource of information. I don't have the time to browse all of the news sources out there and because of the diversity of posters here this often becomes a broad source of information. Of course this can also be a broad source of bull shit (I'm not judging- I know my views are sometimes seen as bull shit) but even that is helpful in terms of sharpening ones cognitive, discriminating, skeptical and critical thinking skills.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,442
    people just fuck off for no reason. that is what happens in life. you know people for awhile and then you never see or hear from them again. what did tyler durden call them? "single serve friends" or something to that effect?? like back in college. lots of really cool people that i used to roll with on occasion all lost touch. we had our finite number of crazy times together and then before we knew it it was over and we all moved on to another phase of life...the same can be said for here on the board. life happens and sometimes stuff is more important than getting into a political pissing match on the moving train. if i had a wife or kids i would not be here very often. if i did not have internet access at work i would not be here. if i were still dedicated to mma fighting i would not be here. so there are all kinds of reasons for people being here or not being around anymore.

    i have learned a lot here over the years. i have taught some people some things as well. i have met some really quality people on here and have established some real and very important friendships, and then i have also met some people that are the opposite of quality. same as in every population of every subgroup everywhere. i met a lot of us here at pj20, and those meetings were great. i settled some issues i had with some people actually in person over a beer, or a jager....but meeting those people from here helped make pj20 the time of my life. one guy i met said that i am "the shitstirrer of the moving train..." i did not know how to take that. initially i felt bad about it, and it really bothered me that that was all i am to that guy. an avatar that types words and posts links, and that is it. but then i thought more about it and i figured to myself that "someone somewhere has to stir this pot", so i took it as some sort of a backwards compliment...

    sometimes i wonder why i am still on here. i think part of it is that the world is so fucked up that sometimes i have to come here and vent a little to people who for the most part are like minded. sometimes i feel so powerless to change things. i see the world how i want it to be, and i get so fucking angry and even down that i feel helpless that i can't reform the world to be just like the one i see in my head. i feel like there is nothing that any of us can do to change or improve things sometimes. then again, sometimes i feel very empowered and very emboldened. i think it helps me to come here and just get it all out of me. i can do that physically at the gym, but i think the intellectual in me needs to sit here, get my thoughts together, and just type it out and hope that people read it and if they do i read it i hope that they understand where i am coming from.

    there is some good debate here still at times. i don't get along with everyone here, and most of that is just political differences and nothing personal. and people don't get along with me sometimes, but that is what happens when you talk about religion and politics in mixed company...the bottom line is, and the thing we have to remember is that all of us care. we all see that there are problems in this country and in this world, and we all come here to discuss them and learn from each other. i've been around a long time. i think i signed up on the yield tour and began posting here and there at that time. i have taken extended breaks many times for several different reasons. some breaks longer than others, and sometimes they were planned or unplanned. on the really old board i had another 2000 or so posts, so i have been at it on here for a long time. people come and go all the time.

    the board in it's current form still has some good debate. but sometimes it seems like the personal attacks and baiting are worse than i have ever seen it. i am just as guilty of that sometimes as other people...but we are better than that. i think we lost a lot of good people here when the board became pay to post. there was much more diversity before that happened. but the board is what it is now and it is a function of what we, the posters choose it to be and what we choose to make it.... i knew a lot of those people idris listed and a lot of them are not coming back. i miss quite a few of them and their contributions too, but they are not here for whatever reason. there is no point in dwelling on the past. we can remember how the board once was, and even miss that at times, but we have politics and policy to debate here now. nobody ever changed anything by looking in the rearview mirror.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,675
    Great points, excellent post Senior AMT Member, gimmesometruth27!

    I just want to add a couple of quick notes here.Firstly, even though I've been a PJ fan for quite a while I arrived on the scene here fairly late on. I'm a long-time poster on another fan forum and I know it's kind of awkward when a new upstart shows up on the block although it's also nice to see some new blood. In any case, I have not been made to feel like an outsider or intruder here in this (nearly now) one year here. Thanks all of you here for that.

    Secondly, even though it appears- from what some of you have said- that AMT has changed over the years it seems to me that this is a fairly remarkable forum. Some other fan forum sites I've visited discourage political debate at the level that occurs here. I would argue that for those sites, this is understandable and not necessarily objectionable in light of the fact that the artist they are based on are fairly apolitical and, besides, sometimes it's just nice to go there to talk about the music. Pearl Jam (like, say, Neil Young) are more politically oriented in their spectrum that way so it makes sense here.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    people just fuck off for no reason. that is what happens in life. you know people for awhile and then you never see or hear from them again. what did tyler durden call them? "single serve friends" or something to that effect?? like back in college. lots of really cool people that i used to roll with on occasion all lost touch. we had our finite number of crazy times together and then before we knew it it was over and we all moved on to another phase of life...the same can be said for here on the board. life happens and sometimes stuff is more important than getting into a political pissing match on the moving train. if i had a wife or kids i would not be here very often. if i did not have internet access at work i would not be here. if i were still dedicated to mma fighting i would not be here. so there are all kinds of reasons for people being here or not being around anymore.

    i have learned a lot here over the years. i have taught some people some things as well. i have met some really quality people on here and have established some real and very important friendships, and then i have also met some people that are the opposite of quality. same as in every population of every subgroup everywhere. i met a lot of us here at pj20, and those meetings were great. i settled some issues i had with some people actually in person over a beer, or a jager....but meeting those people from here helped make pj20 the time of my life. one guy i met said that i am "the shitstirrer of the moving train..." i did not know how to take that. initially i felt bad about it, and it really bothered me that that was all i am to that guy. an avatar that types words and posts links, and that is it. but then i thought more about it and i figured to myself that "someone somewhere has to stir this pot", so i took it as some sort of a backwards compliment...

    sometimes i wonder why i am still on here. i think part of it is that the world is so fucked up that sometimes i have to come here and vent a little to people who for the most part are like minded. sometimes i feel so powerless to change things. i see the world how i want it to be, and i get so fucking angry and even down that i feel helpless that i can't reform the world to be just like the one i see in my head. i feel like there is nothing that any of us can do to change or improve things sometimes. then again, sometimes i feel very empowered and very emboldened. i think it helps me to come here and just get it all out of me. i can do that physically at the gym, but i think the intellectual in me needs to sit here, get my thoughts together, and just type it out and hope that people read it and if they do i read it i hope that they understand where i am coming from.

    there is some good debate here still at times. i don't get along with everyone here, and most of that is just political differences and nothing personal. and people don't get along with me sometimes, but that is what happens when you talk about religion and politics in mixed company...the bottom line is, and the thing we have to remember is that all of us care. we all see that there are problems in this country and in this world, and we all come here to discuss them and learn from each other. i've been around a long time. i think i signed up on the yield tour and began posting here and there at that time. i have taken extended breaks many times for several different reasons. some breaks longer than others, and sometimes they were planned or unplanned. on the really old board i had another 2000 or so posts, so i have been at it on here for a long time. people come and go all the time.

    the board in it's current form still has some good debate. but sometimes it seems like the personal attacks and baiting are worse than i have ever seen it. i am just as guilty of that sometimes as other people...but we are better than that. i think we lost a lot of good people here when the board became pay to post. there was much more diversity before that happened. but the board is what it is now and it is a function of what we, the posters choose it to be and what we choose to make it.... i knew a lot of those people idris listed and a lot of them are not coming back. i miss quite a few of them and their contributions too, but they are not here for whatever reason. there is no point in dwelling on the past. we can remember how the board once was, and even miss that at times, but we have politics and policy to debate here now. nobody ever changed anything by looking in the rearview mirror.


    ^^^ this.


    well said gimme.
    :clap::clap::clap:
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    people just fuck off for no reason. that is what happens in life. you know people for awhile and then you never see or hear from them again. what did tyler durden call them? "single serve friends" or something to that effect?? like back in college. lots of really cool people that i used to roll with on occasion all lost touch. we had our finite number of crazy times together and then before we knew it it was over and we all moved on to another phase of life...the same can be said for here on the board. life happens and sometimes stuff is more important than getting into a political pissing match on the moving train. if i had a wife or kids i would not be here very often. if i did not have internet access at work i would not be here. if i were still dedicated to mma fighting i would not be here. so there are all kinds of reasons for people being here or not being around anymore.

    i have learned a lot here over the years. i have taught some people some things as well. i have met some really quality people on here and have established some real and very important friendships, and then i have also met some people that are the opposite of quality. same as in every population of every subgroup everywhere. i met a lot of us here at pj20, and those meetings were great. i settled some issues i had with some people actually in person over a beer, or a jager....but meeting those people from here helped make pj20 the time of my life. one guy i met said that i am "the shitstirrer of the moving train..." i did not know how to take that. initially i felt bad about it, and it really bothered me that that was all i am to that guy. an avatar that types words and posts links, and that is it. but then i thought more about it and i figured to myself that "someone somewhere has to stir this pot", so i took it as some sort of a backwards compliment...

    sometimes i wonder why i am still on here. i think part of it is that the world is so fucked up that sometimes i have to come here and vent a little to people who for the most part are like minded. sometimes i feel so powerless to change things. i see the world how i want it to be, and i get so fucking angry and even down that i feel helpless that i can't reform the world to be just like the one i see in my head. i feel like there is nothing that any of us can do to change or improve things sometimes. then again, sometimes i feel very empowered and very emboldened. i think it helps me to come here and just get it all out of me. i can do that physically at the gym, but i think the intellectual in me needs to sit here, get my thoughts together, and just type it out and hope that people read it and if they do i read it i hope that they understand where i am coming from.

    there is some good debate here still at times. i don't get along with everyone here, and most of that is just political differences and nothing personal. and people don't get along with me sometimes, but that is what happens when you talk about religion and politics in mixed company...the bottom line is, and the thing we have to remember is that all of us care. we all see that there are problems in this country and in this world, and we all come here to discuss them and learn from each other. i've been around a long time. i think i signed up on the yield tour and began posting here and there at that time. i have taken extended breaks many times for several different reasons. some breaks longer than others, and sometimes they were planned or unplanned. on the really old board i had another 2000 or so posts, so i have been at it on here for a long time. people come and go all the time.

    the board in it's current form still has some good debate. but sometimes it seems like the personal attacks and baiting are worse than i have ever seen it. i am just as guilty of that sometimes as other people...but we are better than that. i think we lost a lot of good people here when the board became pay to post. there was much more diversity before that happened. but the board is what it is now and it is a function of what we, the posters choose it to be and what we choose to make it.... i knew a lot of those people idris listed and a lot of them are not coming back. i miss quite a few of them and their contributions too, but they are not here for whatever reason. there is no point in dwelling on the past. we can remember how the board once was, and even miss that at times, but we have politics and policy to debate here now. nobody ever changed anything by looking in the rearview mirror.

    :thumbup:
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    bigdvs wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    The biggest issue with "debate" is the hard-line stance that is taken via our liberal / conservative views. Since "flip-flop" is a cardinal sin in politics, issues are driven to extremes and are often void of common sense.

    Agreed, its not even just a view its straight belief, if you believe one side of an issue you stand on that side of that arguement irrationally beyond all common sense and say the most absurd things in defense of bullshit.
    If we can't all be a little more open minded then we can not have debate, we just have talking past each other.

    some people have no idea about learning and growing. this is the reason I love debate. Even though I dont agree im still learning your views, in a society we all have to accomodate each other and each others ideas.
    thats why i hate current polotics in my country (australia)
    recently we had a dead heat election, what got the current government in was the support of a few independents. and as such the other sides ideas are not listened to by the government.
    so 49 percent of australians thouughts, choice of represntative are completely ignored. how stupid.
    and i would probably back the gov in power right now so its not sour grapes. I just beleive that a large part of our society is not being listened to. that debate is ignored because they won
    both sides have good and bad ideas
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Back when commy was a regular, this place was a lot different. A different level, because the regulars then could debate some issue and I'd read through it and would hardly understand any of it. It felt like a different level of intelligence, back then. No offense to the regulars of now, but it's just changed since a lot of members then didn't have to be paying 10c members, so they didn't jump the boat with the new boards.


    well i think that being snotty because your an intelectual is mostly slack. Im certainly not. but I have seen a lot in my 43 years and have an opinion. and i want to broaden my understannding of the world and the peolpe in it.
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    people just fuck off for no reason. that is what happens in life. you know people for awhile and then you never see or hear from them again. what did tyler durden call them? "single serve friends" or something to that effect?? like back in college. lots of really cool people that i used to roll with on occasion all lost touch. we had our finite number of crazy times together and then before we knew it it was over and we all moved on to another phase of life...the same can be said for here on the board. life happens and sometimes stuff is more important than getting into a political pissing match on the moving train. if i had a wife or kids i would not be here very often. if i did not have internet access at work i would not be here. if i were still dedicated to mma fighting i would not be here. so there are all kinds of reasons for people being here or not being around anymore.

    i have learned a lot here over the years. i have taught some people some things as well. i have met some really quality people on here and have established some real and very important friendships, and then i have also met some people that are the opposite of quality. same as in every population of every subgroup everywhere. i met a lot of us here at pj20, and those meetings were great. i settled some issues i had with some people actually in person over a beer, or a jager....but meeting those people from here helped make pj20 the time of my life. one guy i met said that i am "the shitstirrer of the moving train..." i did not know how to take that. initially i felt bad about it, and it really bothered me that that was all i am to that guy. an avatar that types words and posts links, and that is it. but then i thought more about it and i figured to myself that "someone somewhere has to stir this pot", so i took it as some sort of a backwards compliment...

    sometimes i wonder why i am still on here. i think part of it is that the world is so fucked up that sometimes i have to come here and vent a little to people who for the most part are like minded. sometimes i feel so powerless to change things. i see the world how i want it to be, and i get so fucking angry and even down that i feel helpless that i can't reform the world to be just like the one i see in my head. i feel like there is nothing that any of us can do to change or improve things sometimes. then again, sometimes i feel very empowered and very emboldened. i think it helps me to come here and just get it all out of me. i can do that physically at the gym, but i think the intellectual in me needs to sit here, get my thoughts together, and just type it out and hope that people read it and if they do i read it i hope that they understand where i am coming from.

    there is some good debate here still at times. i don't get along with everyone here, and most of that is just political differences and nothing personal. and people don't get along with me sometimes, but that is what happens when you talk about religion and politics in mixed company...the bottom line is, and the thing we have to remember is that all of us care. we all see that there are problems in this country and in this world, and we all come here to discuss them and learn from each other. i've been around a long time. i think i signed up on the yield tour and began posting here and there at that time. i have taken extended breaks many times for several different reasons. some breaks longer than others, and sometimes they were planned or unplanned. on the really old board i had another 2000 or so posts, so i have been at it on here for a long time. people come and go all the time.

    the board in it's current form still has some good debate. but sometimes it seems like the personal attacks and baiting are worse than i have ever seen it. i am just as guilty of that sometimes as other people...but we are better than that. i think we lost a lot of good people here when the board became pay to post. there was much more diversity before that happened. but the board is what it is now and it is a function of what we, the posters choose it to be and what we choose to make it.... i knew a lot of those people idris listed and a lot of them are not coming back. i miss quite a few of them and their contributions too, but they are not here for whatever reason. there is no point in dwelling on the past. we can remember how the board once was, and even miss that at times, but we have politics and policy to debate here now. nobody ever changed anything by looking in the rearview mirror.


    shitstirer of the board
    haha love it. wear it like a badge of pride mate. you stir the pot and get it moving. nothing wrong with that.
    your certainly not a troll
    keep it up
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    a post by idris about communication hit the spot.
    im saddened that in our modern society with free communication via the power of the net that we still allow our leaders to fool vast parts of our society about other peoples and their religons/ beleifs.
    Ive been on this board and been involved in discussions with Israelites and muslims and or supporters of. Ive learnt more about the issues there on this board than in the media.
    INFORMATION IS POWER
    lets share it
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,442
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    a post by idris about communication hit the spot.
    im saddened that in our modern society with free communication via the power of the net that we still allow our leaders to fool vast parts of our society about other peoples and their religons/ beleifs.
    Ive been on this board and been involved in discussions with Israelites and muslims and or supporters of. Ive learnt more about the issues there on this board than in the media.
    INFORMATION IS POWER
    lets share it
    i agree. i think that the problem is that some of the issues we discuss are very nuanced and there are no quick articles on these issues. i can speak for the majority of americans, we have a short attention span. if they can not get the entire story on one side of one page of a newspaper, then they will not read it. if they can not get the whole story on a 90 second video clip on a news website they will not watch it. if they have to do research, they won't do it. you can give them all the links they need and they will not read them. hell, we can't even get people to read the links we post here on the train, yet they jump into a thread without reading the material that had been provided :lol: you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. you can lead a person to information, but you can't make them consume it...

    some of the stuff we talk about is human tragedy and is very sad or very anger inspiring. many people do not want to feel those feelings so they tune out the issues and they do not search for the information themselves. if they don't search for it, and the media does not tell them, then they will never ever learn anything about the issues. then we get what we seem to have already, an uninformed electorate.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,442
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    shitstirer of the board
    haha love it. wear it like a badge of pride mate. you stir the pot and get it moving. nothing wrong with that.
    your certainly not a troll
    keep it up
    thanks.

    sometimes i feel like one lol...

    someone has to keep the place from getting all stagnant and boring...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    in australia i've heard they give 12 months leave to pregnant mothers. here its 2 weeks.

    Where is "here"?
    here is the US. may not be 2 weeks but it sure as hell isn't 12 months.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    people just fuck off for no reason. that is what happens in life. you know people for awhile and then you never see or hear from them again.




    usually there's a reason.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Well, part of the problem is that a lot of the more articulate posters from both sides of the spectrum have either been banned, let their membership lapse, or stopped posting over the last couple years....all while complaining that there is no quality debate. That would include you, Commy......good to see you posting.
    hey man. thanks.




    sometimes you make enemies. and sometimes they aren't worth the fight.
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,621
    Commy wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    in australia i've heard they give 12 months leave to pregnant mothers. here its 2 weeks.

    Where is "here"?
    here is the US. may not be 2 weeks but it sure as hell isn't 12 months.

    We get a whopping 12 weeks unpaid leave. I remember that there was actually strong resistance to this when it was passed in 1993, too. The other countries that only have unpaid leave: Liberia, Papua New Guinea, and Swaziland. Not to knock on those three, but please, that's embarrassing.
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i agree. i think that the problem is that some of the issues we discuss are very nuanced and there are no quick articles on these issues. i can speak for the majority of americans, we have a short attention span. if they can not get the entire story on one side of one page of a newspaper, then they will not read it. if they can not get the whole story on a 90 second video clip on a news website they will not watch it. if they have to do research, they won't do it. you can give them all the links they need and they will not read them. hell, we can't even get people to read the links we post here on the train, yet they jump into a thread without reading the material that had been provided :lol: you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. you can lead a person to information, but you can't make them consume it...

    some of the stuff we talk about is human tragedy and is very sad or very anger inspiring. many people do not want to feel those feelings so they tune out the issues and they do not search for the information themselves. if they don't search for it, and the media does not tell them, then they will never ever learn anything about the issues. then we get what we seem to have already, an uninformed electorate.

    heres what id do
    I dont tend to read article first ( at least competely) I google the author to see his his views
    far right or far left i tend to then ignore the argument due to the fact that FACT is generally not a strong point for either far left or right. a fair bit of ignorance is involved. I will read other articles from the authors.
    the subject gets googled as well to see other viewpoints on a subject.

    i learnt that from my brother and it works well
    the net is powerful to those who use it well
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Back when commy was a regular, this place was a lot different. A different level, because the regulars then could debate some issue and I'd read through it and would hardly understand any of it. It felt like a different level of intelligence, back then. No offense to the regulars of now, but it's just changed since a lot of members then didn't have to be paying 10c members, so they didn't jump the boat with the new boards.


    well i think that being snotty because your an intelectual is mostly slack. Im certainly not. but I have seen a lot in my 43 years and have an opinion. and i want to broaden my understannding of the world and the peolpe in it.

    I didn't say anything about being snotty, and was not meant to imply at all. :?
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    people just fuck off for no reason. that is what happens in life. you know people for awhile and then you never see or hear from them again. what did tyler durden call them? "single serve friends" or something to that effect?? like back in college. lots of really cool people that i used to roll with on occasion all lost touch. we had our finite number of crazy times together and then before we knew it it was over and we all moved on to another phase of life...the same can be said for here on the board. life happens and sometimes stuff is more important than getting into a political pissing match on the moving train. if i had a wife or kids i would not be here very often. if i did not have internet access at work i would not be here. if i were still dedicated to mma fighting i would not be here. so there are all kinds of reasons for people being here or not being around anymore.

    i have learned a lot here over the years. i have taught some people some things as well. i have met some really quality people on here and have established some real and very important friendships, and then i have also met some people that are the opposite of quality. same as in every population of every subgroup everywhere. i met a lot of us here at pj20, and those meetings were great. i settled some issues i had with some people actually in person over a beer, or a jager....but meeting those people from here helped make pj20 the time of my life. one guy i met said that i am "the shitstirrer of the moving train..." i did not know how to take that. initially i felt bad about it, and it really bothered me that that was all i am to that guy. an avatar that types words and posts links, and that is it. but then i thought more about it and i figured to myself that "someone somewhere has to stir this pot", so i took it as some sort of a backwards compliment...

    sometimes i wonder why i am still on here. i think part of it is that the world is so fucked up that sometimes i have to come here and vent a little to people who for the most part are like minded. sometimes i feel so powerless to change things. i see the world how i want it to be, and i get so fucking angry and even down that i feel helpless that i can't reform the world to be just like the one i see in my head. i feel like there is nothing that any of us can do to change or improve things sometimes. then again, sometimes i feel very empowered and very emboldened. i think it helps me to come here and just get it all out of me. i can do that physically at the gym, but i think the intellectual in me needs to sit here, get my thoughts together, and just type it out and hope that people read it and if they do i read it i hope that they understand where i am coming from.

    there is some good debate here still at times. i don't get along with everyone here, and most of that is just political differences and nothing personal. and people don't get along with me sometimes, but that is what happens when you talk about religion and politics in mixed company...the bottom line is, and the thing we have to remember is that all of us care. we all see that there are problems in this country and in this world, and we all come here to discuss them and learn from each other. i've been around a long time. i think i signed up on the yield tour and began posting here and there at that time. i have taken extended breaks many times for several different reasons. some breaks longer than others, and sometimes they were planned or unplanned. on the really old board i had another 2000 or so posts, so i have been at it on here for a long time. people come and go all the time.

    the board in it's current form still has some good debate. but sometimes it seems like the personal attacks and baiting are worse than i have ever seen it. i am just as guilty of that sometimes as other people...but we are better than that. i think we lost a lot of good people here when the board became pay to post. there was much more diversity before that happened. but the board is what it is now and it is a function of what we, the posters choose it to be and what we choose to make it.... i knew a lot of those people idris listed and a lot of them are not coming back. i miss quite a few of them and their contributions too, but they are not here for whatever reason. there is no point in dwelling on the past. we can remember how the board once was, and even miss that at times, but we have politics and policy to debate here now. nobody ever changed anything by looking in the rearview mirror.

    Fantastic post!
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,889
    Commy wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    in australia i've heard they give 12 months leave to pregnant mothers. here its 2 weeks.

    Where is "here"?
    here is the US. may not be 2 weeks but it sure as hell isn't 12 months.

    I just wanted to know before I answered.

    The US certainly lags behind. But it is actually 12 weeks on FMLA in the US. Which is a lot of time, but not always enough. There are many evil corporations that allow much longer times as well...up to 1 year. Damn evil bastards!! ;)
    hippiemom = goodness

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