PJ Materialism

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I have decided that the sheer amount of crap I have amassed is incredibly ridiculous. And I don't actually have that much compared to most. But I made a big decision today....PJ20 vinyl went on sale, and I didn't buy it, and I won't be. Not only that, but I'm selling all my vinyl, except for two: Smashing Pumpkins Teargarden 1&2 since that's the only way to get the cd's.

I have both ten and vs/vitalogy box sets, and some other stuff. It's going to be all gone. And that's not all. I'm getting rid of a ton of non-PJ stuff too. Why "collect" stuff? What's the purpose? It just takes up space in your house! Get rid of it! I have a program from the 2003 tour just sitting on mg bookshelf. I think I paid $70 for it. What the FUCK for? How useless is that? GONE.

I was at the Tea Party show tonight. First time I've ever been to a rock show and not left with anything.

From now on I'm only going to buy stuff that I will use, not stuff that I think makes me a better music/PJ fan.

I'm not judging anyone who collects PJ stuff. But for my current income, it makes no sense for me to do so. That's all.

Hub.

Hi.

I could be intersested if you have the Let me Sleep It's Christmas Time holiday single.

klusterfuk

pm sent

Byrnzie

For the last few years, living abroad, all my music and movies are contained on two external hard drives. A 500gb hard drive is small, and light.

Though my Mothers garage contains about 20 boxes of books of mine, and about 500 vinyl albums, and c.d's, e.t.c.

I think there's worse things someone can hoard than books and records.

PKTrekGirl

During the past couple of weeks - with all the drama going on about all of these 'limited edition' items like the backpack, the DVD/Blu-Ray, the PJ20 poster, and now the vinyl, I have been doing a lot of thinking about materialism among PJ fans.

Before I joined this board, I was happy as a clam, just going out and purchasing the new CDs when they came out, and picking up the occasional bootleg (a few from each tour). I watched show videos on YouTube, bought the band's DVDs that were commercially available, had a book or two, and I thought I was a huge fan.

And the thing is...I WAS a huge fan. By any objective measure save the collection of pointless material goods (a backpack??? I mean, seriously - a frakkin' BACKPACK???) I was a huge fan of this band. I knew and loved their music, had educated myself on their history, had listened to as many live shows as I could find, etc.

I had no idea that there were people out there paying $500 for a record or a couple hundred dollars for a poster. And I certainly would never have imagined a Pearl Jam fan paying $250 for a basic backpack, just for the label on the side. I had always seen Pearl Jam as a very anti-conspicuous consumption sort of outfit....and the craziness surrounding collecting, which in some cases amounts to little more than elitist branding (and I'm talking about things like the backpack now) just seemed counter to what I had always imagined Pearl Jam's message being.

Now...I 'get' collecting the vinyl a bit more because of the sound quality issues involved...and I 'get' collecting the bootlegs because it IS, in the end, all about the music (or should be, anyway).

But some of this other stuff?

Does it really prove you are a 'better' fan because you own some poster from 1998 or something? Does it make you a better person? Is a material possession 'proof' that you are a 'superfan'? Or would better 'proof' be that you actually GET what this band is about - as evidenced by your attitudes and actions toward others in the community?

For me, this has been an 'awakening' that has been more than a bit troubling....and frankly, I'm really glad that for 20 years, I was pretty much oblivious to this nonsense. I was just grooving to the tunes and contemplating the message. My version of Pearl Jam fandom was a lot simpler, a lot cheaper...and a lot more about the music and the message....and a lot less about the material goods.

The material crap tries to suck you in though: it's a function of the world we live in, and it's emphasis on the accumulation of money and 'stuff' as a measure of success. But money and 'stuff' don't make a person happy - not really. At best, they provide entertainment. But being a better person?...or being a better fan through your kind treatment of other fans in the community? That is not found in a poster or backpack or teeshirt.

I don't know....

I'm currently in the process of re-thinking what I want MY fandom of this band to be about. And while I would like to get into collecting some of the vinyl because there are some real sound quality issues involved...and while I plan to continue collecting the bootlegs because 'its all about the music'...I want very badly to retain (or re-acquire?) my former perspective...which I think was probably better before I turned up here, to be honest.

I always used to get a kick out of that quote they put on PJ Radio - the one of Ed talking about making the band into a religion with only one commandment: 'Don't be an asshole'.

Well, my observation of life in general (and this fandom as well) is that it's a lot easier to become an asshole when money and 'stuff' is involved. The more money and 'stuff' one has, the more one wants (I mean, it's never enough, is it?)...and the more physical and emotional energy one needs to expend in order to protect and maintain the money and stuff one already has. Pretty soon, one is so busy with their money and stuff, they start missing the point...missing the people component. They start missing the people they should be taking care of, being kind to, caring about. Because it has become all about the stuff.

I applaud your efforts to contemplate what all this 'stuff' has done to focus your life on things that don't really matter, in the end. And I admire anyone who re-thinks the prevailing opinions and behaviors and re-directs themselves to the task of being a better person....not a more 'materialed' person.

It's counter to everything our modern culture teaches us about the measure of success.

But I think it's an issue well worth considering.

Me? I'd probably keep your vinyl if I was you...but material goods that don't have a direct connection to the music and the message? I'm with you there - get rid of it.

hostis

im thinking exactly the same....

i keep thinking about selling all of my PJ stuff. I haven't had an LP player for about 5 years so why am I obsessing about collecting vinyl. Ive got tons of PJ crap, the same as most, and want to sell but on the flip side, its 20 years of my life and it would be something nice to show my kids... not sure what to do!

BinauralJam

"You may find that having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting. This is not logical, but it is often true." -- Spock

Sadly True.

CH156378

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTCaZVIUNp0&ob=av3e

brianlux

Kudos Hugh!

A big part of this is that to often we forget the difference between "want" and "need". It would help very much if we listened to someone like Wendell Berry who talks about the qualities that make something worth having. He asks questions such as-
-Is it useful?
-Is it simple?
-Is it durable?
-Can you repair it yourself or does it require "an expert" to service it?
-Do you really need it or just want it?

I have to admit that I have a lot of records and a whole lot of books, but I think of them as things that are just passing through. Every year I go through my books and records and move on many of the ones I don't listen to/refer to or will not re-read (and did that even before I was in the used book business). It really is pleasant to not be encumbered with a ton of stuff.

DriftingByTheStorm

brianlux wrote:

Kudos Hugh!

A big part of this is that to often we forget the difference between "want" and "need". It would help very much if we listened to someone like Wendell Berry who talks about the qualities that make something worth having. He asks questions such as-
-Is it useful?
-Is it simple?
-Is it durable?
-Can you repair it yourself or does it require "an expert" to service it?
-Do you really need it or just want it?

I have to admit that I have a lot of records and a whole lot of books, but I think of them as things that are just passing through. Every year I go through my books and records and move on many of the ones I don't listen to/refer to or will not re-read (and did that even before I was in the used book business). It really is pleasant to not be encumbered with a ton of stuff.

A wise man once said:

The time to rise has been engaged
You're better best to rearrange
I'm talking here to me alone
I listen to the finest worksong
Your finest hour
Your finest hour

Another chance has been engaged
To throw Thoreau and rearrange
You are following this time
I beg you not beg to rhyme (blow your horn)
Your finest hour (blow your horn)
Your finest hour

Take your instinct by the reins
Your better best to rearrange
What we want and what we need
Has been confused, been confused (blow your horn)
Your finest hour (blow your horn)
Your finest hour

Take your instinct by the reins
Better best to rearrange
What we want and what we need
Has been confused, been confused (blow your horn)
Your finest hour (blow your song)
Your finest hour (blow your horn)
Your finest hour (blow your song)
Your finest hour

---

Also,
technology is quickly (has already, but mass dispersion is somewhat lagging) replacing both.
I'm asking for a kindle for christmas, and then will probably start unloading books as i can find pdf replacements for them. Still hard for me to want to part with my records, though I've considered it before.

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

...I think there's worse things someone can hoard than books and records.

ill second that. this is all i buy. they feed my soul and help me maintain my sanity. and so to me are allowable and very necessary.... all the rest is junk just there to collect dust.

Jeanwah

The best things in life are not things. They're experiences.

I've never really bought into the PJ merchandise because I understand that it's really just about the business turning a higher profit; it proves nothing especially the degree of how much a fan you are. And besides, who is to judge how much a fan we individually are? Does it really matter?

catefrances

Jeanwah wrote:

The best things in life are not things. They're experiences.

I've never really bought into the PJ merchandise because I understand that it's really just about the business turning a higher profit; it proves nothing especially the degree of how much a fan you are. And besides, who is to judge how much a fan we individually are? Does it really matter?

no it doesnt.

Jeanwah

catefrances wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

The best things in life are not things. They're experiences.

I've never really bought into the PJ merchandise because I understand that it's really just about the business turning a higher profit; it proves nothing especially the degree of how much a fan you are. And besides, who is to judge how much a fan we individually are? Does it really matter?

no it doesnt.

No what doesn't. Things don't make one happy. Say what you want, but that's life. It's not about the "things".

catefrances

Jeanwah wrote:

catefrances wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

The best things in life are not things. They're experiences.

I've never really bought into the PJ merchandise because I understand that it's really just about the business turning a higher profit; it proves nothing especially the degree of how much a fan you are. And besides, who is to judge how much a fan we individually are? Does it really matter?

no it doesnt.

No what doesn't. Things don't make one happy. Say what you want, but that's life. It's not about the "things".

you asked does it matter?.. i replied, no it doesnt.

Jeanwah

catefrances wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

catefrances wrote:

no it doesnt.

No what doesn't. Things don't make one happy. Say what you want, but that's life. It's not about the "things".

you asked does it matter?.. i replied, no it doesnt.

Oh, OK. Gotcha.

Drowned Out

where do we draw the line on materialism? ….how much is enough? I’ve been guilty of judging people who spend excessively, or allow themselves what I consider to be unnecessary extravagance in their lifestyle…. I’ve been challenged on this, and rightfully so. That judgment comes from judging those with more than me….My judgment becomes a bit of a non-sequitur when including those with less.
Is it immoral to collect anything, for the sake of collecting, when there are starving people in the world? Probably…But I don’t think there are many of us who are willing to make extreme changes to our lifestyle in an attempt at true equity between classes. Sad but true. So if we’re using a Western middle class moral standard, I think most people feel it’s acceptable to collect something as a leisurely pursuit.
If we can accept that, the key to your post, Hugh, becomes this sentence:

“But for my current income, it makes no sense for me to do so.”

Collecting is like anything else we do for pleasure…moderation is key. If you feel you are spending more than you can afford on ‘stuff’, then you are not moderating your consumption; it’s unbalanced, and you’re right to make the change you’re making.
Personally, I collect posters to shows I’ve been to…it doesn’t create an imbalance in my lifestyle, and I don’t really feel any guilt in doing so, because I don’t feel I spend an excessive amount of time or money on it. SHOULD I feel guilty about having a collection of pieces of paper that I could sell for enough money to feed a starving kid for years? Probably….but again, where do we draw the line on this kind of materialism and morality?

I need a new car fairly soon, so I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit, actually….I haven’t quite figured out the “$_____income / $___car payment = douchebag” formula yet.

catefrances

Drowned Out wrote:

where do we draw the line on materialism? ….how much is enough? I’ve been guilty of judging people who spend excessively, or allow themselves what I consider to be unnecessary extravagance in their lifestyle…. I’ve been challenged on this, and rightfully so. That judgment comes from judging those with more than me….My judgment becomes a bit of a non-sequitur when including those with less.
Is it immoral to collect anything, for the sake of collecting, when there are starving people in the world? Probably…But I don’t think there are many of us who are willing to make extreme changes to our lifestyle in an attempt at true equity between classes. Sad but true. So if we’re using a Western middle class moral standard, I think most people feel it’s acceptable to collect something as a leisurely pursuit.
If we can accept that, the key to your post, Hugh, becomes this sentence:

“But for my current income, it makes no sense for me to do so.”

Collecting is like anything else we do for pleasure…moderation is key. If you feel you are spending more than you can afford on ‘stuff’, then you are not moderating your consumption; it’s unbalanced, and you’re right to make the change you’re making.
Personally, I collect posters to shows I’ve been to…it doesn’t create an imbalance in my lifestyle, and I don’t really feel any guilt in doing so, because I don’t feel I spend an excessive amount of time or money on it. SHOULD I feel guilty about having a collection of pieces of paper that I could sell for enough money to feed a starving kid for years? Probably….but again, where do we draw the line on this kind of materialism and morality?

I need a new car fairly soon, so I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit, actually….I haven’t quite figured out the “$_____income / $___car payment = douchebag” formula yet.

for me, anything i dont need but merely want is materialism. a case could be made in regards to my music and books that i could just listen to the radio or borrow albums or borrow books from friends and the library.. and therefore i dont need to buy these things. that i buy them cause i want them, not because i need them. i could because i have no debts, no car repayments, no mortgage, no outstanding credit card debt(in fact i have no credit cards at all), no addictive habits to support, give all my excess money to charity... but i dont... i give some of my money to charity.

ive been known to carry things around a store in order to determine whether i really need them or whether i just got distracted by 'shiny things'. very rare is it when i actually purchase what it is ive carried around. dont get me wrong i covet things.. i recently saw this awesome rick astley tshirt that i wanted. ive got a lot of tshirts, so i dont actually need another, but that one made me laugh.. fortunately for me i didnt have the readies on me that particular day... and a couple of days later when i did it just didnt seem worth my effort to go back and buy it... and for me this is the most telling thing...


and as for DVDs... theyre comparative in price with actually going to the cinema.. so why wouldnt i buy a movie i wanted to see(and own it) when the alternative is perhaps finding oneself sitting next to max cady and having the whole movie going experience ruined.


anyhoo sometimes i cringe when i see all the crap people buy.. but then again when people see all my books and music they cant seem to understand it either.

chadwick

i've been very fortunate and have found friendships on here. in doing so i have been given more pearl jam stuff than i can list. if i tried i'd forget something. moral of the story. the energy shared feels good. i wish i could give more and was organized. i owe a few on here something special.

i will say that the peal jam safe travels key chain i have is not durable but still used daily. one of my pearl jam vinyls was purchased brand new and w/ a skip in it. how does this happen, or, am i hearing things and there is no skip, it's just the way it sounds?

catefrances

chadwick wrote:

i've been very fortunate and have found friendships on here. in doing so i have been given more pearl jam stuff than i can list. if i tried i'd forget something. moral of the story. the energy shared feels good. i wish i could give more and was organized. i owe a few on here something special.

i will say that the peal jam safe travels key chain i have is not durable but still used daily. one of my pearl jam vinyls was purchased brand new and w/ a skip in it. how does this happen, or, am i hearing things and there is no skip, it's just the way it sounds?

i agree chad.. the pj things that have most value to me are those that ive gotten from friends on here.

chadwick

i love my pearl jam friends. they are my family and love and everything really. these are the best people i ever known. when given or giving a gift, even small, it bridges and bounds with this badass energy stuff difficult to express w/out being long winded and poeticly a large penis in front of you all so i will stop.






(which i do often)

PKTrekGirl

So great to read so many posts in this thread - it is encouraging to read that so many others have thought about/are thinking about this issue.

I especially agree with the ideas that the best things in life are not things...and that the wanting of something is often more satisfying than the having of something. So many times in life I have wanted something - something that was expensive that I might have even had to save up for...but when I finally got it, it almost instantly became just another 'thing' I had. Once acquired, the luster was gone. The ''thing' didn't change my life, make me happier or make me a better person. It just sat on a shelf, like things do. Why did I think it would be so cool to have that thing? I have no idea. It's one of life's mysteries, I suppose, that our minds can trick us into believing 'things' will change our circumstances for the better...when really, what needs changing is not the circumstances but our attitudes about those circumstance and/or our willingness to change them in real, meaningful ways - not just by distracting ourselves temporarily with 'stuff'.

Very interesting discussion. And given all the craziness around here lately with the merch, I'm glad people are having it.

mikalina

PJ Materialism or Materialism in general...

I don't think buying up all kinds of merchandise makes you a bigger fan at all. I love PJ's music, its in my heart and yes I do have some merchandise but I don't go over board at all.

I think the older I get the less "things" I want. The most important things are free....

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I just want to clarify something, just for clarity, not to say anyone's said anything like this, but I'm not judging anyone else for what they buy/collect. In the end, if it makes you happy, then that's all that matters.

For some reason I got caught up in the vinyl thing because, as absurd and "fake" as this is going to sound, Pearl Jam fans buy vinyl. I honestly started to think that. How ludicrous. Because Ed likes vinyl, I'm supposed to? Stupid.

People on here genuinely love vinyl, and I get why they do, but I don't. Not for the price, anyway. I don't have the money to spend on a good enough player to justify owning and ruining good vinyl. My player is some shitty little big box store one that cost $80. I have heard a good NEEDLE costs that much.

Tenzing N.

I mostly agree.

I don't understand the backpack or the white vinyl but I've sat for hours looking over my records and old newsletters. I love opening my old CD cases and looking through the liner notes. Same with the Christmas vinyls.

One might call it a problem if you begin to define yourself by what you own. Either as a person or as a fan. I'm on the fence about that but If that's the way you choose to "do it" I don't really see a problem with it.

usamamasan1

I decided to buy bullion for my boys for Xmas instead of toys.

inlet13

If anyone here doesn't think this band has completely and totally sold out at this point, they are clueless. But, regardless, I understand why they did and think it's fine. They deserve to make money off of what they accomplished. I still love their music. I think Eddie Vedder is an incredible lyricist, but I think he wrote himself into a corner. The truth is... he is a huge hypocrite. I love him and them, but they are. They are amazing musicians and I love their music for music... but, I mean, you can't be anti-greed in a lot of your lyrics.... and be selling all this useless shit on your site.... and not be expected to be called out for it. I mean, zombie t-shirts? really? What's next?

Look at Porch right now... there's a thread on Pearl Jam toe nail clippers. It's tongue in cheek, but it's kinda pointing at an issue that's completely evident.... this thread is also hinting at it.

I can't wait to hear the typical kool-aid responses. But, just be intellectually honest for once before you respond. This isn't political. I love Pearl Jam just as much as you. But, these guys are selling out in front of us and have been since they left Sony. If I were them, I would too.... but, I probably wouldn't have based half my career saying selling out was wrong.

This is the same band that cursed out Adam Duritz for his band being in a Coke commercial. Ironic now.. they sell their music through Target. Come on, PJ...

Regardless, I give thanks for your existence...

usamamasan1

I don't think they are selling out. I think they are business peeps. Instead of playing roulette, they chose the bond route. Slow and steady. Now they get to clip those coupons. It was an investment and it's paying off handsomely.
Good on 'em

It's the fans who are being duped who are still back in the 90's with their mindset.

You gotta pay if you want to play!

brianlux

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

I just want to clarify something, just for clarity, not to say anyone's said anything like this, but I'm not judging anyone else for what they buy/collect. In the end, if it makes you happy, then that's all that matters.

For some reason I got caught up in the vinyl thing because, as absurd and "fake" as this is going to sound, Pearl Jam fans buy vinyl. I honestly started to think that. How ludicrous. Because Ed likes vinyl, I'm supposed to? Stupid.

People on here genuinely love vinyl, and I get why they do, but I don't. Not for the price, anyway. I don't have the money to spend on a good enough player to justify owning and ruining good vinyl. My player is some shitty little big box store one that cost $80. I have heard a good NEEDLE costs that much.

It's true! The amount of money one can spend on a turn table is absurd. I've seen ads for turntables matched with high end cartridges that combined can go for as high as $60,000 ... I'm not kidding!

I love vinyl because CDs sound harsh to my nerve damaged ears thus vinyl is more warm and friendly to me. But the price of new vinyl is too high and I totally agree that collecting it just for the sake of collecting is...well, just collecting... a kind of strange consumer obsession in my opinion. I'll either do without or wait until I find a reasonable used copy.

In any case, great thread, Hugh, thanks!

brianlux

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

brianlux wrote:

A wise man once said:

... finest worksong...

Stipe/REM---GREAT song!!

chadwick

inlet13 wrote:

If anyone here doesn't think this band has completely and totally sold out at this point, they are clueless. But, regardless, I understand why they did and think it's fine. They deserve to make money off of what they accomplished. I still love their music. I think Eddie Vedder is an incredible lyricist, but I think he wrote himself into a corner. The truth is... he is a huge hypocrite. I love him and them, but they are. They are amazing musicians and I love their music for music... but, I mean, you can't be anti-greed in a lot of your lyrics.... and be selling all this useless shit on your site.... and not be expected to be called out for it. I mean, zombie t-shirts? really? What's next?

Look at Porch right now... there's a thread on Pearl Jam toe nail clippers. It's tongue in cheek, but it's kinda pointing at an issue that's completely evident.... this thread is also hinting at it.

I can't wait to hear the typical kool-aid responses. But, just be intellectually honest for once before you respond. This isn't political. I love Pearl Jam just as much as you. But, these guys are selling out in front of us and have been since they left Sony. If I were them, I would too.... but, I probably wouldn't have based half my career saying selling out was wrong.

This is the same band that cursed out Adam Duritz for his band being in a Coke commercial. Ironic now.. they sell their music through Target. Come on, PJ...

Regardless, I give thanks for your existence...

so when target sells a band's music that band becomes a sell-out? if a band has toenail clippers or bunk ass zombie shirts, this group is a sell-out?

i don't like sell-outs either but i don't believe pearl jam are sell-outs. you can be a multi-millionaire musician and not be a sell-out. ed can drive a beater or a luxury car and still not be a sell-out can he not?

selling posters and zippos doesn't make ya a sell-out does it?

what makes a band labeled as sell-outs?