Where are the OWS supporters outrage...?
pjhawks
Posts: 12,594
so where are all the OWS supporters outrage with the movements turning violent with riots, starting fires, and countless sexual assaults? there was a lot of outrage and quick-to condemn the police and the police activity on here a few weeks ago but nothing about what is going on now? seems a tad bit hypocritical to me.
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i don't see anyone supporting violence but there needs to be context here ... i have been at the frontlines of CD actions before and I can tell you that not everything is as it appears ...
1. who gains by having the protest turn violent or the message of the occupation move away from the issues to sexual assaults and violence? ... it's clearly not the protestors ... not to say this is true, but we have to consider that external interests are interfering here (especially considering that this is a common practice)
2. i can ask you if you are a violent person and you can say no ... but if i repeatedly bait and harass you or someone you know - it can easily turn violent
3. the OWS protest is about the fundamental problems in our economic system ... a protest that is supported by many many people of all ilks and personality ... it is very possible that some of these people can commit acts of violence and stupidity ...
what is important with this and almost every issue is that we think critically through this and look at the situation as a whole ... if these acts of violence and sexual assaults are indeed committed by OWS supporters - those people need to be arrested and charged ... but in no way should that detract from the message of this protest ... it is because we are so easily distracted and influenced that the many wrongs in society continue to happen ...
All three of your points could just as easily apply to the police.
Riots? You have no idea what a riot is.
I don't have time to search for them this morning, but I know there have been at least a few times where I stated that I don't support using violence in this sort of action. I mentioned organizing a very peaceful gathering for 350.org as an example of the kind of demonstration that can make a useful point.
As I said, the truth is, anytime you get a large- or in this case many large and some huge groups of people together there are going to be some who cause trouble. If you look at the size and scope of the OWS movement, the number of violent incidences are surprisingly small. The small percentage of people causing the trouble are making the movement look bad the same way the few rude people in a movie theater or obnoxious or dangerous drivers on the road make theater going and driving look bad. And compared to those examples, percentage-wise OWS is doing well that way.
We should recognize that there are a few who will cause trouble. (And I can't help but wonder if some of the trouble makers are intentionally trying to make OWS look bad.) Yes, we would do well to speak out against acts that are harmful but we should even more so acknowledge that for the most part these demonstrations have been peaceful and not loose sight of what this is all about (which has been discussed elsewhere.)
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
1. not sure how
2. definitely
3. although i definitely agree that we shouldn't paint all policemen based on a few bad apples ... the problem here tho is that unlike in most other groups - the police will protect themselves ... it is widely accepted that police will not inform or turn on other police officers even if they know they did something wrong .. so, the ability of the police to police themselves is inherently compromised.
1 - so are you suggesting it is somehow the media's fault for reporting these problems? and it's funny to see and hear the occupiers complain about the police a few weeks ago but now want them to get involved to clean up their very own protests. ironic isn't it?
3 - no doubt there are problems in our economic system (although people taking loans and complaining later they don't want to pay them surely isn't one i support) but shutting down a port like they did in oakland, thus denying good hard-working american citizens the opportunity to work and earn money yesterday stinks. they denied truck drivers from getting into the port - how is keeping a blue collar worker from doing his job helping our economic system?
frankly the protestors had a good run but it's time to get them off the streets for health and lawlessness issues. but that's just my opinion.
just 2 small stories in the past 2 days.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/0 ... 3%7C109635
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/0 ... 72367.html
1. where do i suggest it's anyone's fault? ... my primary point there was to say that these acts do not help the agenda of OWS and that we need to consider this ... if i was against these protests - it would not be very hard to hire some people to pose as protestors and cause trouble (it's a common tactic - there is video evidence of police getting caught sending in undercover people to a) spy on protestors and b) to incite violence at anti-globalization protests)
3. listen - i understand you have your beliefs and perceptions of not only this protest but of the surrounding issues ... all i'm saying is that you have to look at the larger picture ... when i was campaigning against logging of old growth forests in the 90's - i had nothing against the actual loggers who were just trying to make a living but the reality is that if we allowed what was happening to continue, we were allowing a big corporation decide the fate of a situation with complete disregard for the rule of law ... these big multi-nationals break laws every single day without any reprise - they are protected because of their influence ...
on your last point - i do feel like these protests are not efficient ways of making change ... countries like egypt and the like have a much more engaged populace ... sadly, the reasons why america is where its at is the reason why these protests will fail ...
i find it hypocritical that on every police car in New York is writen CPR, Courtesy , Professionalism and Respect
Nazi's dressed better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_uniform
If I was making enough to buy one happy meal a day, relied on the government to give me a loaf of bread a day, and there was garbage and human feces everywhere, I would probably be more involved also.
Apples and oranges isn't even a fair comparison.
violence is not the answer in these protests.
however; if the police are provoking people and brutalizing them and lobbing teargas at them, they have to expect a response. it is human instinct to push back when you are being pushed. non-violence is not a human instinct, rather it is more difficult to control your emotions and remain peaceful when being pressed or provoked...
i don't condone rioting or burning things in the middle of the street, but the police have a job to keep things from getting out of control, rather than acting in a way that escalates them...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Do they have a singular voice that speaks for them to express their outrage?
...
and i'm just going to take a wild stab here... but, not many people 'support' acts of violence... especially RAPE... exept the sociopaths. Anyone who suggest that a large segment of America society actually supports violence and rape... well, for lack of a better description... makes them appear to be... well, kinda stupid.
Hail, Hail!!!
huh, thats neat
That's what I think, too (bolded part). Oakland was bound not to go back to any sweet and peaceful demonstration after last week. I don't support violence but this was bound to happen. People were rightfully pissed about the police's actions there, so of course it escalated into something else.
Point taken.
Hail, Hail!!!
so it is somehow the police's fault that these punks decided to go into an abandoned building, trash the place and set fires....umm ok
You're not doing a very good job of attempting to put words in anyone else's mouth.
sexual assault at the camp = not police's fault
civil unrest and violence towards police as a result of police abusing protesters, gassing them, beating them, and nearly killing a veteran of a foreign war = DEFINITELY police's fault.
i think that all of us in this thread are intelligent enough to understand the differences between the actions of a few dumbasses and the actions of a peaceful gathering getting violent after being provoked...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Type "Oakland Riot" into google pictures ... quite interesting and it doesn't even include much stuff from the OWS protests, just various riots from the past. My favorite is this guy:
Try "Occupy a Job", it's a lot harder.
You need a hug
They'll have to skip on over to the Starbucks and use their free-corporate bathroom to scrub up w/ some Gov't soap before I hug back.
Concealed carry laws exist to defend one's self against this kind of lawlessness.
They should be shot.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Ok, but only if you throw in a flogging.
Christmas is coming May Day
Just blowin off steam.
Truth is, I'd like to camp out in a park playin music, drinkin, tent-hoppin w like-minded co-eds n protesting the bad guys d' jour- sounds awesome actually.
But for grown ups w mouths to feed n bills to pay, who's got the time?
It's a shame that it's gone violent tho...These things only seem to escalate.