Albert Pujols....

rival.

The Juggler wrote:

please remove griffey's name from this discussion.

+1

if the guy's swing doesn't prove natural hitter, i don't know what does.

incredible stroke.

The Juggler

rival. wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

please remove griffey's name from this discussion.

+1

if the guy's swing doesn't prove natural hitter, i don't know what does.

incredible stroke.

favorite player growing up. could have been the best ever if he stayed healthy. :x

Cliffy6745

The Juggler wrote:

favorite player growing up. could have been the best ever if he stayed healthy. :x

Steroids cause nagging injuries. Just saying, if we want to just make assumptions, that's a fair assumption.

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

favorite player growing up. could have been the best ever if he stayed healthy. :x

Steroids cause nagging injuries. Just saying, if we want to just make assumptions, that's a fair assumption.

they also help you recover quicker and allow you to get stronger later in your career. the opposite was true of griff compared to his contemporaries.

lukin2006

Until he fails a test...I'm going to consider him clean.

gimmesometruth27

first off, pujols came back from a "fractured wrist" in half the time because he did not have a fractured wrist. having worked with professional athletes in rehabilitation and physical therapy i can say that what you hear in the press relating to any pro athlete's injury most times is not the entire truth, and in some cases an out and out lie....in the case of the "wrist fracture", my friend's wife works at a surgery center here in town and she said that pujols was there for a "routine procedure for a foot problem" and he left the surgery center in a walking boot and on crutches. ever try to use crutches with a wrist fracture? doesn't work too well. i don't know if it was a plantar fascia surgery, but his struggle with plantar fasciitis over the years has been well documented. it makes sense that he came back quickly from plantar fascia surgery because they do not go in and repair anything, they cut the bad part of the tendon and that is it. all you have to do is wait for the incisions to heal. this is why the plantar fascia is the only part of the body where they will give multiple cortisone injections in a short period of time without fear. too much cortisone exposure in a short period of time can cause soft tissue and tendon weakening and potential rupture, which in this case a plantar fascia rupture is the same thing has having the surgery, just not as precise. this is why they do not do cortisone injections in major tendons like the achilles, the patellar tendon, or quadriceps tendon, because too much risk of tendon rupture. they especially would not inject those areas on a multimillion dollar athlete and put his career at risk.

secondly, look at how durable he has been. he has barely been on the dl over the course of his career. anyone on steroids or human growth hormone over time begins to suffer from serious tendon issues like tendon degeneration. look at mark mcgwire and jd drew. they had similar patellar tendon issues that would not heal, even with the most advanced medial treatment. eventually tendon biopsies were performed and apparently they both had some tendon necrosis, or dead tissue within the tendon, which is a sign of long term steroid use. if pujols has been using anything, he would start to be on the dl much more often with much worse and more complicated issues. yes, steroids can help promote weight gain and faster return from minor injuries, but long term use is much more detrimental to your overall health and will ultimately shorten a career. pujols has also not shown typical signs of chronic use such as acne. he does have the baldness, but if you look at his numbers he has been very consistent over his career. if he started using anything during his career we would see a spike while using and a decline in his numbers while cycling off..

Cliffy6745

The Juggler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

favorite player growing up. could have been the best ever if he stayed healthy. :x

Steroids cause nagging injuries. Just saying, if we want to just make assumptions, that's a fair assumption.

they also help you recover quicker and allow you to get stronger later in your career. the opposite was true of griff compared to his contemporaries.

To an extent, sure, it depends on how long you have taken them though. There are certainly some diminishing returns. He also had a number of tendon injuries which are some of the most common injuries caused by steroids, if I remember correctly

All, I'm saying, if people want to look at a picture of Pujols and say he is on steroids, then you have to look and other evidence for players you like, no matter how weak that evidence is. Neither has anything dirty on them, at all, one has grown (people grow) and one had injuries that can be associated with steroids.

Cliffy6745

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

first off, pujols came back from a "fractured wrist" in half the time because he did not have a fractured wrist. having worked with professional athletes in rehabilitation and physical therapy i can say that what you hear in the press relating to any pro athlete's injury most times is not the entire truth, and in some cases an out and out lie....in the case of the "wrist fracture", my friend's wife works at a surgery center here in town and she said that pujols was there for a "routine procedure for a foot problem" and he left the surgery center in a walking boot and on crutches. ever try to use crutches with a wrist fracture? doesn't work too well. i don't know if it was a plantar fascia surgery, but his struggle with plantar fasciitis over the years has been well documented. it makes sense that he came back quickly from plantar fascia surgery because they do not go in and repair anything, they cut the bad part of the tendon and that is it. all you have to do is wait for the incisions to heal. this is why the plantar fascia is the only part of the body where they will give multiple cortisone injections in a short period of time without fear. too much cortisone exposure in a short period of time can cause soft tissue and tendon weakening and potential rupture, which in this case a plantar fascia rupture is the same thing has having the surgery, just not as precise. this is why they do not do cortisone injections in major tendons like the achilles, the patellar tendon, or quadriceps tendon, because too much risk of tendon rupture. they especially would not inject those areas on a multimillion dollar athlete and put his career at risk.

secondly, look at how durable he has been. he has barely been on the dl over the course of his career. anyone on steroids or human growth hormone over time begins to suffer from serious tendon issues like tendon degeneration. look at mark mcgwire and jd drew. they had similar patellar tendon issues that would not heal, even with the most advanced medial treatment. eventually tendon biopsies were performed and apparently they both had some tendon necrosis, or dead tissue within the tendon, which is a sign of long term steroid use. if pujols has been using anything, he would start to be on the dl much more often with much worse and more complicated issues. yes, steroids can help promote weight gain and faster return from minor injuries, but long term use is much more detrimental to your overall health and will ultimately shorten a career. pujols has also not shown typical signs of chronic use such as acne. he does have the baldness, but if you look at his numbers he has been very consistent over his career. if he started using anything during his career we would see a spike while using and a decline in his numbers while cycling off..

I'm a little suprised hearing you say it was his foot and not his wrist. I think a plantar fascia rupture is what happened to Chen Ming Wang. That was a tough break.

Interesting stuff though. Interesting you say that about the cortisone shot in the achilles, the Phillies gave Howard one before the playoffs, I believe and he went on to rupture it. Interesting that from what you are saying, that could be considered irresponsible.

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Steroids cause nagging injuries. Just saying, if we want to just make assumptions, that's a fair assumption.

they also help you recover quicker and allow you to get stronger later in your career. the opposite was true of griff compared to his contemporaries.

To an extent, sure, it depends on how long you have taken them though. There are certainly some diminishing returns. He also had a number of tendon injuries which are some of the most common injuries caused by steroids, if I remember correctly

All, I'm saying, if people want to look at a picture of Pujols and say he is on steroids, then you have to look and other evidence for players you like, no matter how weak that evidence is. Neither has anything dirty on them, at all, one has grown (people grow) and one had injuries that can be associated with steroids.

like i said, mlb has brought discussions like this upon themselves. it's a shame people even bring up steroids and griffy jr in the same sentence, but that's just the way it is these days.

great performance by pujols last night. great job of redeeming himself. still, as this thread shows, it's easy for people to be skeptical of him given the sport's recent past.

Cliffy6745

The Juggler wrote:

like i said, mlb has brought discussions like this upon themselves. it's a shame people even bring up steroids and griffy jr in the same sentence, but that's just the way it is these days.

great performance by pujols last night. great job of redeeming himself. still, as this thread shows, it's easy for people to be skeptical of him given the sport's recent past.

No doubt, agree completely.

CH156378

this thread blows my mind.

The Juggler

pujols had a foot problem and not a fractured wrist? what?

that is a huge revelation. why would this story get out on a pearl jam message board in october and not anywhere else in the last 5 months? :?

not saying your lying. but i would assume it's possible the while he was on the dl for his wrist problem, he got his foot checked out as well...being that he's had issues there throughout his career.

Cliffy6745

The Juggler wrote:

pujols had a foot problem and not a fractured wrist? what?

that is a huge revelation. why would this story get out on a pearl jam message board in october and not anywhere else in the last 5 months? :?

not saying your lying. but i would assume it's possible the while he was on the dl for his wrist problem, he got his foot checked out as well...being that he's had issues there throughout his career.

ha, yeah. I did think what he said about cortisone was pretty interesting though.

Flagg

All I know is that is even though my team was on the other end of that display last night, that was something special to watch. I hope the Rangers can recover, but I don't know. Looks like we have run into "that f-ing team" again this year.

gimmesometruth27

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I'm a little suprised hearing you say it was his foot and not his wrist. I think a plantar fascia rupture is what happened to Chen Ming Wang. That was a tough break.

Interesting stuff though. Interesting you say that about the cortisone shot in the achilles, the Phillies gave Howard one before the playoffs, I believe and he went on to rupture it. Interesting that from what you are saying, that could be considered irresponsible.

i was shocked when she told me that too. everyone saw him get hit with that ball in the wrist area. there are certain wrist fractures that you could play with after 2 or 3 weeks if they are completely non-displaced and stable fractures, such as a fracture of the ulnar styloid process, but with that you run the risk of tearing the triangular fibrocartilage complex, which in most cases becomes chronic and is a surgical issue because it makes the wrist unstable. if he had a scaphoid fracture that requires casting in most cases up to 3 months then extensive rehab. in most cases of scaphoid fracture they have to surgically pin that back together because it has poor blood supply and does not heal very well on it's own. knowing what i do about professional sports and medicine, i had no doubt that the wrist injury was a cover story for the foot, or he had the foot taken care of while the wrist was injured. with a ruputred or surgically cut plantar fascia they can give you an orthotic for heel cushioning and arch support and let you play quickly as long as pain allows.

this woman is someone i have known and been dear friends with since i was in 7th grade. she has never lied to me about anything and i have no reason to doubt her word in this situation.

i never heard that about the cortisone injection in the achilles for howard. they may have injected the tendon sheath, which is the lining that covers and lubricates the actual tendon, which i have heard of in extreme rare cases, but i have never heard that injecting the actual tendon is ever indicated in any situation.. they may have told howard that "these are your options. we can do surgery now or we can try an injection to try to get you through the playoffs, we advise against the injection, but it is your choice". i don't know of any doctor that would come out an say "ok let's inject that achilles tendon!!" because he would be putting himself at risk of liability if the tendon tears. tendon rupture after cotrisone injection is about 1% of all cases, but after multiple injections in the same body part in a short timeframe it becomes more likely. this is why doctors spread out repeat cortisone injections to no sooner than about 3 months between them. the general rule of thumb for cortisone is no more than 3 per calander year per body part. if they did inject his achilles they had to have made him aware of all of the risks involved. that is not a decision that should be taken lightly.

gimmesometruth27

The Juggler wrote:

pujols had a foot problem and not a fractured wrist? what?

that is a huge revelation. why would this story get out on a pearl jam message board in october and not anywhere else in the last 5 months? :?

not saying your lying. but i would assume it's possible the while he was on the dl for his wrist problem, he got his foot checked out as well...being that he's had issues there throughout his career.

i am going by the word of someone who works at the surgery center where the washingon university sports medicine surgeons operate. those are the team docs for all of the st louis professional sports franchises and their minor league affiliates. i am not going by reports in the media because everything in the media said it was a wrist fracture. i don't doubt that he had a wrist injury, but my question is why would he be in a walking boot non weightbearing, with crutches with a wrist fracture??

when you think about it, it makes sense.

Dead Man Walking

He'll look nice in pinstripes. Damn Yankees.

oona left

MAS wrote:

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

MAS wrote:

if someone can just explain how i can post a picture on here, I got an awesome before and after for u guys...

paste the picture's URL, select it, and click the button above that says "Img"

it doesnt have a url it was emailed to me..

Upload it to an image hosting site first (like Photobucket).

Once you upload it there, you'll have an IMG code.

Come back here, paste the IMG code, and voila.

MAS

Shot at 2011-10-23

MAS

Shot at 2011-10-23