i honestly believe that people in congress who are speaking out against this are committing treason.
seriously. they know that the wars have crippled this country and cost us a trillion dollars and several thousand lives and potentially a million iraqi lives. for any one of those senators and congressmen to support the continued war effort with no exit strategy and no end game when there is nothing to win and everything to lose in terms of blood and treasure is tantamount to wanting our country to fail.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
The Obama administrations request to stay was denied. They didn't pull out they were kicked out. Just another example of Obama trying to make the most of the opportunity to gain support and once again pull the wool over peoples eyes.
"Today I can report that, as promised, the rest of our troops in Iraq will come home by the end of the year. After nearly nine years, America's war in Iraq will be over," he told reporters.
But he had already announced this earlier this year, and the real significance today was in the failure of Obama, in spite of the cost to the US in dollars and deaths, to persuade the Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki to allow one or more American bases to be kept in the country.
Obama was formally told of Maliki's final decision on Friday morning in a video conference. Speaking later to reporters, Obama glossed over the rejection, describing it as Iraq shaping its own future.
Everyone showering him with accolades must not have gotten the memo that the leadership in Iraq is now booting us out.
So why not use this circumstance as a good campaign tool, it's obviously working. He's going to need to regroup everyone for Iran anyway. For some reason the leadership of this country on both sides of the aisle are just hell bent on keeping us in conflict over there.
The Obama administrations request to stay was denied. They didn't pull out they were kicked out. Just another example of Obama trying to make the most of the opportunity to gain support and once again pull the wool over peoples eyes.
"Today I can report that, as promised, the rest of our troops in Iraq will come home by the end of the year. After nearly nine years, America's war in Iraq will be over," he told reporters.
But he had already announced this earlier this year, and the real significance today was in the failure of Obama, in spite of the cost to the US in dollars and deaths, to persuade the Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki to allow one or more American bases to be kept in the country.
Obama was formally told of Maliki's final decision on Friday morning in a video conference. Speaking later to reporters, Obama glossed over the rejection, describing it as Iraq shaping its own future.
I wonder how hard the Obama Administration pushed for this though. It's not that Iraq kicked us out, it was that they wouldn't agree to all of our terms (immunity, etc). I'm just thinking, if Obama really was set to end this war, were the negotiations and the Iraqi rejection enough to give Obama cover to pull out?
We've seen the political push back anytime Obama tried to push for any drastic reductions or timelines, was this his way of saying "well, we tried, but I guess we have to get our troops out there now..."?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
i would have told obama that the troops do not have immunity as well. if you commit a war crime and you are caught, you should face a trial like everyone else would. from what i have read to me it sounds like the administration said that if our troops can't have immunity then we are out of there.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,431
It really doesn't surprise me that after spending six days in the woods with no phone, TV, internet, magazine or newspaper that somethings in this fast changing world would be different. How nice to come home to some good news. :thumbup:
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
i honestly believe that people in congress who are speaking out against this are committing treason.
So, you're not a big fan of freedom of speech after all, huh? Freedom of speech I agree with is more like it?
It seems perfectly reasonable to be question this move and the reasoning behind it. Ultimately, it gets people back home with their families so that's a good thing in my mind. So long as it doesn't cause greater harm in the future, regardless of why the troops are leaving, it will end up being a very good thing.
i honestly believe that people in congress who are speaking out against this are committing treason.
So, you're not a big fan of freedom of speech after all, huh? Freedom of speech I agree with is more like it?
It seems perfectly reasonable to be question this move and the reasoning behind it. Ultimately, it gets people back home with their families so that's a good thing in my mind. So long as it doesn't cause greater harm in the future, regardless of why the troops are leaving, it will end up being a very good thing.
why are you putting words in my mouth by saying i am against freedom of speech? you know me a lot better than that after all these years cincy. it is the motivations of those complaining about this move that i have an issue with.
i believe that anyone who wants to perpetuate the war machine and the war spending that is bankrupting this country does not have the best interests of this country at heart. and that can be considered treason.
bring them home now and let's focus on rebuilding our own country.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
It really doesn't surprise me that after spending six days in the woods with no phone, TV, internet, magazine or newspaper that somethings in this fast changing world would be different. How nice to come home to some good news. :thumbup:
Kinda nice to disconnect every once in a while, isn't it?
For me, it allows me to realize that most of the stuff I worry about really isn't worth worrying about.
Withdrawal of US Troop in Iraq ... and relocating to Kuwait??? For some reason, I thought they may be coming home. I guess it's time to start preparing for the inevitable war with Iran ...
Fact Check: "On November 17, 2008, after months of negotiations, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker and Iraq Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari signed two documents: (1) the Strategic Framework. The Iraqi Council of Ministers first approved the agreements on November 16, 2008; the Iraq Council of Representatives followed on November 27, 2008; and finally the Iraqi Presidential Council approved them on December 4, 2008. The agreements entered into force on January 1, 2009, following an exchange of diplomatic notes between the United States and Iraq, and are set to expire on December 31, 2011."
...
Ref. 'U.S.-Iraq Withdrawal/Status of Forces Agreement: Issues for Congressional Oversight'
Congressional Research Service - Doc. No. 7-5700 http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40011.pdf (pages 4 and 5)
...
President G.W. Bush delivered the good news of the agreed end date at a press conference that some of you might remember... a Iraqi dude in the audience hurled a pair of black dress shoes at the President's head.
...
So... when you are watching your FOX News broadcasts and you hear them talking about President Obama's surrender to terrorists and how everything that happens in Iraq is now, his fault... you will know the truth of the matter... and you'll probably still believe the FOX News celebrities because that's the stuff you like to hear.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Fact Check: "On November 17, 2008, after months of negotiations, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker and Iraq Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari signed two documents: (1) the Strategic Framework. The Iraqi Council of Ministers first approved the agreements on November 16, 2008; the Iraq Council of Representatives followed on November 27, 2008; and finally the Iraqi Presidential Council approved them on December 4, 2008. The agreements entered into force on January 1, 2009, following an exchange of diplomatic notes between the United States and Iraq, and are set to expire on December 31, 2011."
...
Ref. 'U.S.-Iraq Withdrawal/Status of Forces Agreement: Issues for Congressional Oversight'
Congressional Research Service - Doc. No. 7-5700 http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40011.pdf (pages 4 and 5)
...
President G.W. Bush delivered the good news of the agreed end date at a press conference that some of you might remember... a Iraqi dude in the audience hurled a pair of black dress shoes at the President's head.
...
So... when you are watching your FOX News broadcasts and you hear them talking about President Obama's surrender to terrorists and how everything that happens in Iraq is now, his fault... you will know the truth of the matter... and you'll probably still believe the FOX News celebrities because that's the stuff you like to hear.
"President Obama's astonishing failure to secure an orderly transition in Iraq has unnecessarily put at risk the victories that were won through the blood and sacrifice of thousands of American men and women. The unavoidable question is whether this decision is the result of a naked political calculation or simply sheer ineptitude in negotiations with the Iraqi government. The American people deserve to hear the recommendations that were made by our military commanders in Iraq."
I agree with the last sentence, would love to know. I bet we never know.
...
"Status Of Forces Agreements have been drafted in the past for specific exercises and/or events,55 but including a date for the withdrawal of all forces from a foreign territory appears unique to this agreement.56 The withdrawal is a two-phase process. The first requires the withdrawal of all U.S. combat forces from Iraqi cities, villages, and localities no later than June 30, 2009; the second requires the withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraqi territory no later than December 31, 2011.57 The JMOCC, created to coordinate military operations, will establish the areas and facilities where U.S. forces will be stationed between June 30, 2009, and December 31, 2011.58 Additionally, the agreement recognizes the sovereign right of Iraq to request the departure of U.S. forces at any time and also the right of the United States to withdraw its forces at any time.59 In an April, 2009, interview, General Odierno, Commanding General of Multi-National Force Iraq, stated that U.S. forces may not meet the June 30, 2009, deadline to withdraw from Iraqi cities. 60 However, on June 30, 2009, General Odierno announced that U.S. combat forces had completed the withdrawal from Iraqi cities in accordance with the agreement.61 Even though the term of the agreement is three years, and either party may cancel the agreement with one-year notice, both countries retain the right to remove U.S. forces independent of the agreement. However, because the agreement requires the removal of all U.S. forces no later than December 31, 2011, if any U.S. forces were to remain in Iraq in support of security training, or other programs, the withdrawal agreement will need to be extended or replaced with a peacetime SOFA."
ref. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40011.pdf
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Fact Check: "On November 17, 2008, after months of negotiations, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker and Iraq Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari signed two documents: (1) the Strategic Framework. The Iraqi Council of Ministers first approved the agreements on November 16, 2008; the Iraq Council of Representatives followed on November 27, 2008; and finally the Iraqi Presidential Council approved them on December 4, 2008. The agreements entered into force on January 1, 2009, following an exchange of diplomatic notes between the United States and Iraq, and are set to expire on December 31, 2011."
...
Ref. 'U.S.-Iraq Withdrawal/Status of Forces Agreement: Issues for Congressional Oversight'
Congressional Research Service - Doc. No. 7-5700 http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40011.pdf (pages 4 and 5)
...
President G.W. Bush delivered the good news of the agreed end date at a press conference that some of you might remember... a Iraqi dude in the audience hurled a pair of black dress shoes at the President's head.
...
So... when you are watching your FOX News broadcasts and you hear them talking about President Obama's surrender to terrorists and how everything that happens in Iraq is now, his fault... you will know the truth of the matter... and you'll probably still believe the FOX News celebrities because that's the stuff you like to hear.
according to this I should thank Bush for ending the war when I hear people give credit to Obama...or does this disbelief and setting the record straight only apply one direction?
and as Jason pointed out...all they are doing is simply moving them next door...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Withdrawal of US Troop in Iraq ... and relocating to Kuwait??? For some reason, I thought they may be coming home. I guess it's time to start preparing for the inevitable war with Iran ...
As U.S. troops leave Iraq this fall, Washington plans to beef up its already considerable troop presence in the wider Persian Gulf region, with an eye to deterring Iranian aggression or to be able to respond to a collapse of Iraqi security, the New York Times reported Sunday.
The United States already has some 40,000 troops stationed at bases in the Persian Gulf outside of Iraq, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta pointedly noted last week. That includes some "23,000 American troops in Kuwait, 7,500 in Qatar, 5,000 in Bahrain and nearly 3,000 in the United Arab Emirates," Panetta told the Washington Post's Walter Pincus October 23.
That number is on top of the approximately 39,000 American troops currently in Iraq whom President Obama announced this month will be withdrawn by the end of the year, as well as approximately 100,000 U.S. troops currently deployed to Afghanistan.
"We will always have a force that will be present and that will deal with any threats from Iran," Panetta told Pincus last week.
Withdrawal of US Troop in Iraq ... and relocating to Kuwait??? For some reason, I thought they may be coming home. I guess it's time to start preparing for the inevitable war with Iran ...
As U.S. troops leave Iraq this fall, Washington plans to beef up its already considerable troop presence in the wider Persian Gulf region, with an eye to deterring Iranian aggression or to be able to respond to a collapse of Iraqi security, the New York Times reported Sunday.
The United States already has some 40,000 troops stationed at bases in the Persian Gulf outside of Iraq, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta pointedly noted last week. That includes some "23,000 American troops in Kuwait, 7,500 in Qatar, 5,000 in Bahrain and nearly 3,000 in the United Arab Emirates," Panetta told the Washington Post's Walter Pincus October 23.
That number is on top of the approximately 39,000 American troops currently in Iraq whom President Obama announced this month will be withdrawn by the end of the year, as well as approximately 100,000 U.S. troops currently deployed to Afghanistan.
"We will always have a force that will be present and that will deal with any threats from Iran," Panetta told Pincus last week.
get your war on...
i thought we were bringing them home??
is kuwait the new home?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Withdrawal of US Troop in Iraq ... and relocating to Kuwait??? For some reason, I thought they may be coming home. I guess it's time to start preparing for the inevitable war with Iran ...
As U.S. troops leave Iraq this fall, Washington plans to beef up its already considerable troop presence in the wider Persian Gulf region, with an eye to deterring Iranian aggression or to be able to respond to a collapse of Iraqi security, the New York Times reported Sunday.
The United States already has some 40,000 troops stationed at bases in the Persian Gulf outside of Iraq, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta pointedly noted last week. That includes some "23,000 American troops in Kuwait, 7,500 in Qatar, 5,000 in Bahrain and nearly 3,000 in the United Arab Emirates," Panetta told the Washington Post's Walter Pincus October 23.
That number is on top of the approximately 39,000 American troops currently in Iraq whom President Obama announced this month will be withdrawn by the end of the year, as well as approximately 100,000 U.S. troops currently deployed to Afghanistan.
"We will always have a force that will be present and that will deal with any threats from Iran," Panetta told Pincus last week.
get your war on...
i thought we were bringing them home??
is kuwait the new home?
I caught a slight touch of the "Hope" bug last week, but it seems to have subsided.
It's a good thing that most Americans suck at geography and probably could not point out Iraq on a map, less yet Kuwait.
But I'll be realistic. Obama had made a promise and if he didn't get the troops out, even if it means moving them next door, he would get skewered by the GOP and his left-leaning base. Technically, he will make good on a promise. The GOP will give a little flak, but their association with the defense lobby will keep their "outrage" toned down, as long as the troops stay in the region.
I think the way this will play out is that Iraq will request US assistance within the year, allowing us to re-enter the country to provide security. Because let's face it, does anyone really believe that Iraq has the personnel capable of keeping the peace?
...............
Also, the hypocrisy (or is denial / avoidance a better term) on the left to ignore the wars over the last three years is disturbing. I recall it being one of the top three issues that was rallied upon during the campaign. I recall hearing "No More" being played at a very high frequency during PJ tours. I believe Ed is still true to his beliefs, but even he has toned down based on what I've heard at live shows and bootlegs. Just my opinion.
We all would be better off letting go of our political affiliations and using our brain cells to forge our opinions.
I'm going to take the positive view of this: even if taking the troops out of Iraq really just means that there will be more troops stationed in Kuwait, at least those troops are safer on a military base in a friendly country than they are in Iraq dealing with gunfire, bombs, etc. from insurgents. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.
according to this I should thank Bush for ending the war when I hear people give credit to Obama...or does this disbelief and setting the record straight only apply one direction?
and as Jason pointed out...all they are doing is simply moving them next door...
...
Yes... You should thank Bush for the entirety of the Iraq War. It was and is the Bush War and Obama's role is simply being the President on December 31, 2011. President Obama should not be credited nor blamed for any of what happens in Iraq.
...
Now... the surge in Afghanistan in 2009 is a different story. President Obama should have tried to resurrect that war effort... but, enough time has passed. Afghanistan is a lost cause... freedom is not enduring over there... it is time to cut our losses and leave that place... just as the Soviets did in 1989. We made the same mistake as they did... it's time we owned up to it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
according to this I should thank Bush for ending the war when I hear people give credit to Obama...or does this disbelief and setting the record straight only apply one direction?
and as Jason pointed out...all they are doing is simply moving them next door...
...
Yes... You should thank Bush for the entirety of the Iraq War. It was and is the Bush War and Obama's role is simply being the President on December 31, 2011. President Obama should not be credited nor blamed for any of what happens in Iraq.
...
Now... the surge in Afghanistan in 2009 is a different story. President Obama should have tried to resurrect that war effort... but, enough time has passed. Afghanistan is a lost cause... freedom is not enduring over there... it is time to cut our losses and leave that place... just as the Soviets did in 1989. We made the same mistake as they did... it's time we owned up to it.
agreed
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
The Soviets would have had no problems running their tanks and planes into Pakistan if it meant confronting enemy leadership. Combine that with technological advances of today and not having their sworn enemy provide stinger missiles, and they would probably be speaking Russian in Afghanistan today.
I'm going to take the positive view of this: even if taking the troops out of Iraq really just means that there will be more troops stationed in Kuwait, at least those troops are safer on a military base in a friendly country than they are in Iraq dealing with gunfire, bombs, etc. from insurgents. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.
Unless it radicalizes people in these other countries. I too am trying to see the positive in this, and there is some, but it would be much better to bring them home.
The Soviets would have had no problems running their tanks and planes into Pakistan if it meant confronting enemy leadership. Combine that with technological advances of today and not having their sworn enemy provide stinger missiles, and they would probably be speaking Russian in Afghanistan today.
...
Then let the Russians get bogged down in a never ending conflict that sees their kids sent home in boxes.
As for 'Speaking Russian in Afghanistan'... after how many years, decades or centuries? Afghanistan will cease being Afghanistan after you kill all of them... and anyone who is called to arms in their defense. And the more you kill, the more of them come online for you to kill.
The Soviets figured this out after about 9 years.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
seriously. they know that the wars have crippled this country and cost us a trillion dollars and several thousand lives and potentially a million iraqi lives. for any one of those senators and congressmen to support the continued war effort with no exit strategy and no end game when there is nothing to win and everything to lose in terms of blood and treasure is tantamount to wanting our country to fail.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Today I can report that, as promised, the rest of our troops in Iraq will come home by the end of the year. After nearly nine years, America's war in Iraq will be over," he told reporters.
But he had already announced this earlier this year, and the real significance today was in the failure of Obama, in spite of the cost to the US in dollars and deaths, to persuade the Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki to allow one or more American bases to be kept in the country.
Obama was formally told of Maliki's final decision on Friday morning in a video conference. Speaking later to reporters, Obama glossed over the rejection, describing it as Iraq shaping its own future.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oc ... plea-bases
So why not use this circumstance as a good campaign tool, it's obviously working. He's going to need to regroup everyone for Iran anyway. For some reason the leadership of this country on both sides of the aisle are just hell bent on keeping us in conflict over there.
I wonder how hard the Obama Administration pushed for this though. It's not that Iraq kicked us out, it was that they wouldn't agree to all of our terms (immunity, etc). I'm just thinking, if Obama really was set to end this war, were the negotiations and the Iraqi rejection enough to give Obama cover to pull out?
We've seen the political push back anytime Obama tried to push for any drastic reductions or timelines, was this his way of saying "well, we tried, but I guess we have to get our troops out there now..."?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
So, you're not a big fan of freedom of speech after all, huh? Freedom of speech I agree with is more like it?
It seems perfectly reasonable to be question this move and the reasoning behind it. Ultimately, it gets people back home with their families so that's a good thing in my mind. So long as it doesn't cause greater harm in the future, regardless of why the troops are leaving, it will end up being a very good thing.
i believe that anyone who wants to perpetuate the war machine and the war spending that is bankrupting this country does not have the best interests of this country at heart. and that can be considered treason.
bring them home now and let's focus on rebuilding our own country.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
For me, it allows me to realize that most of the stuff I worry about really isn't worth worrying about.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/united-states-plans-post-iraq-persian-gulf-troop-160237627.html
...
Ref. 'U.S.-Iraq Withdrawal/Status of Forces Agreement: Issues for Congressional Oversight'
Congressional Research Service - Doc. No. 7-5700
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40011.pdf (pages 4 and 5)
...
President G.W. Bush delivered the good news of the agreed end date at a press conference that some of you might remember... a Iraqi dude in the audience hurled a pair of black dress shoes at the President's head.
...
So... when you are watching your FOX News broadcasts and you hear them talking about President Obama's surrender to terrorists and how everything that happens in Iraq is now, his fault... you will know the truth of the matter... and you'll probably still believe the FOX News celebrities because that's the stuff you like to hear.
Hail, Hail!!!
"Status Of Forces Agreements have been drafted in the past for specific exercises and/or events,55 but including a date for the withdrawal of all forces from a foreign territory appears unique to this agreement.56 The withdrawal is a two-phase process. The first requires the withdrawal of all U.S. combat forces from Iraqi cities, villages, and localities no later than June 30, 2009; the second requires the withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraqi territory no later than December 31, 2011.57 The JMOCC, created to coordinate military operations, will establish the areas and facilities where U.S. forces will be stationed between June 30, 2009, and December 31, 2011.58 Additionally, the agreement recognizes the sovereign right of Iraq to request the departure of U.S. forces at any time and also the right of the United States to withdraw its forces at any time.59 In an April, 2009, interview, General Odierno, Commanding General of Multi-National Force Iraq, stated that U.S. forces may not meet the June 30, 2009, deadline to withdraw from Iraqi cities. 60 However, on June 30, 2009, General Odierno announced that U.S. combat forces had completed the withdrawal from Iraqi cities in accordance with the agreement.61 Even though the term of the agreement is three years, and either party may cancel the agreement with one-year notice, both countries retain the right to remove U.S. forces independent of the agreement. However, because the agreement requires the removal of all U.S. forces no later than December 31, 2011, if any U.S. forces were to remain in Iraq in support of security training, or other programs, the withdrawal agreement will need to be extended or replaced with a peacetime SOFA."
ref. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40011.pdf
Hail, Hail!!!
according to this I should thank Bush for ending the war when I hear people give credit to Obama...or does this disbelief and setting the record straight only apply one direction?
and as Jason pointed out...all they are doing is simply moving them next door...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
As U.S. troops leave Iraq this fall, Washington plans to beef up its already considerable troop presence in the wider Persian Gulf region, with an eye to deterring Iranian aggression or to be able to respond to a collapse of Iraqi security, the New York Times reported Sunday.
The United States already has some 40,000 troops stationed at bases in the Persian Gulf outside of Iraq, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta pointedly noted last week. That includes some "23,000 American troops in Kuwait, 7,500 in Qatar, 5,000 in Bahrain and nearly 3,000 in the United Arab Emirates," Panetta told the Washington Post's Walter Pincus October 23.
That number is on top of the approximately 39,000 American troops currently in Iraq whom President Obama announced this month will be withdrawn by the end of the year, as well as approximately 100,000 U.S. troops currently deployed to Afghanistan.
"We will always have a force that will be present and that will deal with any threats from Iran," Panetta told Pincus last week.
i thought we were bringing them home??
is kuwait the new home?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I caught a slight touch of the "Hope" bug last week, but it seems to have subsided.
It's a good thing that most Americans suck at geography and probably could not point out Iraq on a map, less yet Kuwait.
But I'll be realistic. Obama had made a promise and if he didn't get the troops out, even if it means moving them next door, he would get skewered by the GOP and his left-leaning base. Technically, he will make good on a promise. The GOP will give a little flak, but their association with the defense lobby will keep their "outrage" toned down, as long as the troops stay in the region.
I think the way this will play out is that Iraq will request US assistance within the year, allowing us to re-enter the country to provide security. Because let's face it, does anyone really believe that Iraq has the personnel capable of keeping the peace?
...............
Also, the hypocrisy (or is denial / avoidance a better term) on the left to ignore the wars over the last three years is disturbing. I recall it being one of the top three issues that was rallied upon during the campaign. I recall hearing "No More" being played at a very high frequency during PJ tours. I believe Ed is still true to his beliefs, but even he has toned down based on what I've heard at live shows and bootlegs. Just my opinion.
We all would be better off letting go of our political affiliations and using our brain cells to forge our opinions.
Yes... You should thank Bush for the entirety of the Iraq War. It was and is the Bush War and Obama's role is simply being the President on December 31, 2011. President Obama should not be credited nor blamed for any of what happens in Iraq.
...
Now... the surge in Afghanistan in 2009 is a different story. President Obama should have tried to resurrect that war effort... but, enough time has passed. Afghanistan is a lost cause... freedom is not enduring over there... it is time to cut our losses and leave that place... just as the Soviets did in 1989. We made the same mistake as they did... it's time we owned up to it.
Hail, Hail!!!
agreed
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Unless it radicalizes people in these other countries. I too am trying to see the positive in this, and there is some, but it would be much better to bring them home.
Then let the Russians get bogged down in a never ending conflict that sees their kids sent home in boxes.
As for 'Speaking Russian in Afghanistan'... after how many years, decades or centuries? Afghanistan will cease being Afghanistan after you kill all of them... and anyone who is called to arms in their defense. And the more you kill, the more of them come online for you to kill.
The Soviets figured this out after about 9 years.
Hail, Hail!!!