12 year old and STD's

shadowcast

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/califor ... ts-kn.html

So let me get this straight. A 15 year old girl knows she is going to be sexually active and decides to get a vaccine to prevent the risk of certain cancers, precancerous cervical cell changes and genital warts. She doesn't want to tell her parents because she is embarrassed to talk to them about this. What’s the problem? Why is everyone having a fit over this? Do you agree with this?

brianlux

shadowcast wrote:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/california-politics/2011/10/gov-the-governor-also-signed-a-measure-allowing-minors-who-are-12-years-of-age-or-older-to-consent-without-their-parents-kn.html

So let me get this straight. A 15 year old girl knows she is going to be sexually active and decides to get a vaccine to prevent the risk of certain cancers, precancerous cervical cell changes and genital warts. She doesn't want to tell her parents because she is embarrassed to talk to them about this. What’s the problem? Why is everyone having a fit over this? Do you agree with this?

Preventing STD's at any age seems like a good idea.

pandora

California Gov. Jerry Brown stepped into the middle of a debate over parental rights Sunday by signing legislation giving children 12 or older the power to consent to medical care involving the prevention of sexually transmitted disease.

Asssemblywoman Toni Atkins (D-San Diego) sponsored AB 499 with the aim of providing young people with timely preventative treatment, including the human papillomavirus [HPV] vaccine that proponents say can reduce the risk of certain cancers, precancerous cervical cell changes and genital warts.

The measure was backed by groups including the California STD Controllers Assn., the Health Officers Assn. of California, ACT for Women and Girls and the American Civil Liberties Union.

The bill was opposed by the California Catholic Conference, which opposed previous measures that allow minors to consent to certain treatments without the involvement of parents.

That group wrote to legislators that "this bill is dangerous because it expands a faulty law which assumes that children know better than their parents and because it will allow minors access to HPV vaccines which may cause them permanent harm."


I agree with the last paragraph.

I'm all for education and birth control options without consent for young adults.
Twelve is a child and I am not for the government saying to a child
without the parental involvement... 'get this vaccine.'

Educate the parents who then educate the children.

JTH

pandora wrote:

Educate the parents who then educate the children.

Yeah, in theory that's a good idea. But there are way too many parents who would want no part of this and therefore would not allow themselves to be educated.

So 12 is too young? What age do you think is appropriate? 18? Maybe 16?

By the way, I'm not saying I disagree with you. I'm really conflicted on this. I can definitely see both sides here.

BinauralJam

But the law says you can't have sex until your 18, Screw trying to save lives, IT'S THE LAW!!!
GOD HIMSELF HAS DECREED, oh wait, no he didn't, nevermind.

mikepegg44

All std prevention is a good thing. They do lasting damage to your insides if not properly treated and no one want s that....The HPV vaccination is as safe as all the others. Non-consent laws are tricky and often done to make sure to erase as many barriers between the tester and the testee (see what I did there)...We test people as young as twelve without consent from their parents...it is too bad that because of shame or something else a child would subject themselves to the possibility of getting HPV...makes me sad.
Again if you can consent to the testing, and the treatment for GC, chl, or HPV, why could you not consent for this preventative measure?

pandora

JTH wrote:

pandora wrote:

Educate the parents who then educate the children.

Yeah, in theory that's a good idea. But there are way too many parents who would want no part of this and therefore would not allow themselves to be educated.

So 12 is too young? What age do you think is appropriate? 18? Maybe 16?

By the way, I'm not saying I disagree with you. I'm really conflicted on this. I can definitely see both sides here.

I don't trust the government enough to let my child go and get vaccinated without my permission

really don't like that at any age ... but an adult of course at 18 makes their own choices.

I am for very little government intervention...
and I never get a flu shot

The parents who want no part of this vaccine may have a reason for this.
We can not assume they are wrong and the government is right in all cases.

Loulou

Wow, interesting arguement. It's hard isn't it? There's 2 strong sides to this, the girl is WAAAAAAAY to young to be having sex or getting consent without a parent, yet will she be too embarassed to tell her parents and in turn just go ahead without the vax?

_

While this is good news, it's not really news. It seems like the media is just looking for something to turn into a controversy.

Minors are already allowed to consent to healthcare services for sexually transmitted infections in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Furthermore, since its inception in 1970, Title X of the federal Public Health Services Act has mandated confidential family planning services to all people, regardless of age. Federal Medicaid statute also requires that family planning services are provided confidentially to minors.

Evidence has shown time and time again that parental involvement requirements for minors' reproductive healthcare only puts teens at risk. They are far less likely to get services for prevention or treatment of STIs or pregnancy, but are not any less likely to engage in risky sexual behavior. It's really a question of whether our dogma is more important than the health and safety of our kids.

The medical profession is in agreement on this as well. The American Academy of Family Physicians, American Academy of Pediatrics, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, American College of Physicians, American Medical Association, and Society for Adolescent Medicine are just a few of the professional organizations which have made official statements in support of confidential reproductive health services for minors.

It's really a no-brainer.

pandora

unless you are a parent...

_

pandora wrote:

unless you are a parent...

:roll:

mikepegg44

pandora wrote:

unless you are a parent...

I am a parent. I can tell you that if, and I will do my best to avoid this, but if my daughter is ever embarrassed about getting the medical care she needs I hope she is able to find a place that makes her feel comfortable and gets her the care she needs.

Pandora, I would like to extend to you an invitation to come to my clinic and see the people we help every day with this very problem...they are scared and would not get help if their parents had to know...about once a month we see a 15 year old with P.I.D because she was too scared to get the medical care she needed...No matter what we feel about a 12 year old being sexually active, if they are active, they need the proper care.

pandora

mikepegg44 wrote:

pandora wrote:

unless you are a parent...

I am a parent. I can tell you that if, and I will do my best to avoid this, but if my daughter is ever embarrassed about getting the medical care she needs I hope she is able to find a place that makes her feel comfortable and gets her the care she needs.

Pandora, I would like to extend to you an invitation to come to my clinic and see the people we help every day with this very problem...they are scared and would not get help if their parents had to know...about once a month we see a 15 year old with P.I.D because she was too scared to get the medical care she needed...No matter what we feel about a 12 year old being sexually active, if they are active, they need the proper care.

it is not my worry, sexually active 12 year olds, it is vaccines for a person of that age without parental consent.
My opinion, that is over the top intrusion to the family unit by the government.

Educate the parents ... include the parents... the vaccine is a preventive,
no child has to be embarrassed because it does not imply sexual activity.

And there are some who do not agree with vaccines at all, in fact a growing number
questioning them and the requirements.

JTH

pandora wrote:

My opinion, that is over the top intrusion to the family unit by the government.

Educate the parents ... include the parents... the vaccine is a preventive,
no child has to be embarrassed because it does not imply sexual activity.

Again, if the parents don't want to be educated, who's going to make sure that they are? The government?

Wouldn't THIS be the over-the-top intrusion you feel that giving a 12-year-old the freedom to make such a decision without parental involvement is?

pandora

JTH wrote:

pandora wrote:

My opinion, that is over the top intrusion to the family unit by the government.

Educate the parents ... include the parents... the vaccine is a preventive,
no child has to be embarrassed because it does not imply sexual activity.

Again, if the parents don't want to be educated, who's going to make sure that they are? The government?

Wouldn't THIS be the over-the-top intrusion you feel that giving a 12-year-old the freedom to make such a decision without parental involvement is?

I think you may have lost me on the last statement there

No it is not the government who should decide if someone gets a vaccine or not ...
perhaps laws such as this is the first step at that.

As I said many are questioning vaccines in general and their right to choose
also questioning this pill pushing nation we have become run by the pharmaceutical companies...
big huge business that it is

For me, yes I would rather see money go into education for parents...
not sure where your want or lack of it comes in,
parents want what is best for their children,
it is up to society and government to educate ... not makes choices for its citizens.

JTH

pandora wrote:

No it is not the government who should decide if someone gets a vaccine or not ...
perhaps laws such as this is the first step at that.

Who is saying anything about the government requiring this vaccine? Unless I'm completely misunderstanding things, this law gives girls at the age of 12 the ability to choose to be vaccinated without parental involvement.

pandora wrote:

For me, yes I would rather see money go into education for parents...
not sure where your want or lack of it comes in,
parents want what is best for their children,
it is up to society and government to educate ... not makes choices for its citizens.

Yes, good parents generally want what's best for their children. But let's face it, there are a lot of shitty parents out there who would never participate in any voluntary education program. Plus, there are many otherwise good parents who might feel that it's there moral obligation to opt out of the education.

So again, if a parent chooses not to be educated, how does this help an underage girl make an informed decision?

mikepegg44

pandora wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

pandora wrote:

unless you are a parent...

I am a parent. I can tell you that if, and I will do my best to avoid this, but if my daughter is ever embarrassed about getting the medical care she needs I hope she is able to find a place that makes her feel comfortable and gets her the care she needs.

Pandora, I would like to extend to you an invitation to come to my clinic and see the people we help every day with this very problem...they are scared and would not get help if their parents had to know...about once a month we see a 15 year old with P.I.D because she was too scared to get the medical care she needed...No matter what we feel about a 12 year old being sexually active, if they are active, they need the proper care.

it is not my worry, sexually active 12 year olds, it is vaccines for a person of that age without parental consent.
My opinion, that is over the top intrusion to the family unit by the government.

Educate the parents ... include the parents... the vaccine is a preventive,
no child has to be embarrassed because it does not imply sexual activity.

And there are some who do not agree with vaccines at all, in fact a growing number
questioning them and the requirements.

ahh I misunderstood, sorry about that

cincybearcat

The government cannot continue to pick and choose different ages at which a minor becomes an adult. It is 1 age and 1 age only. If you allowing a 12 year old to determine if she gets a vaccination, then why isn't that the legal age of consent? Why isn't that the age where they are tried as adults? Why isn't that the age where the parents can no longer be held legal accountable for their kids actions? Why isn't that the age where a parent can kick a kid out of the house?

Stick to one age. This is ridiculous. One could say they are taking advantage of a minor.

cincybearcat

_ wrote:

It's really a no-brainer.

Really? A no brainer to allow 12 year olds to make decisions like this without parental consent? That is ridiculous.

The "no brainer" is for the government to get the hell out of the argument.

And by the way, I have a daughter and I would support her getting the vaccine. Of course, I would read up a bit more prior to having her get it, but I'm pretty sure I'd do it. It's not about whether the vaccine is a good thing or not, it's about who should be able to decide that.

haffajappa

I see both sides too.
Like Pandora i'm one of those people who doesn't get flu shots, so I can see how vaccines without parental permission could have serious issues... Especially since at that age the child really doesn't know what's best for them (I can't believe they're even having sex that young!)...

But on the other hand the consequences of getting a STD (especially, i assume, during those developmental years) are horrible and most probably a repercussion that a 12 year old wouldn't even think of or at least not seriously take into account.

Sex ed is so important! I guess the problem is not only the embarrassment on the child's part but also the parent's, I assume its awkward for parents to talk to and educate their children on sex. Which is immature, in my opinion, but still happens. Oh and that religion thing too.

pandora

JTH wrote:

pandora wrote:

No it is not the government who should decide if someone gets a vaccine or not ...
perhaps laws such as this is the first step at that.

Who is saying anything about the government requiring this vaccine? Unless I'm completely misunderstanding things, this law gives girls at the age of 12 the ability to choose to be vaccinated without parental involvement.

pandora wrote:

For me, yes I would rather see money go into education for parents...
not sure where your want or lack of it comes in,
parents want what is best for their children,
it is up to society and government to educate ... not makes choices for its citizens.

Yes, good parents generally want what's best for their children. But let's face it, there are a lot of shitty parents out there who would never participate in any voluntary education program. Plus, there are many otherwise good parents who might feel that it's there moral obligation to opt out of the education.

So again, if a parent chooses not to be educated, how does this help an underage girl make an informed decision?

I have stated a child should not have this ability to make this choice. They are children!

It is a preventive vaccine for a disease.
Not unlike the other vaccines parents get for their children
when they choose to protect them against childhood diseases.


You are assuming with the proper education
a parent would not choose to vaccinate their child for future sexual activity
they will enjoy when they are adults or near to be because of morality issues.

There is no morality question about this...
it is for a disease they can contract when they are adults.
This vaccine, as many are, is for lifelong diseases, lifelong prevention.

Educate the parents.

The key here is it is a vaccine and not a choice a child should have.
Only an adult should be able to choose once they have made an educated decision
about the risks involved for their child or themselves.