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Pearl Jam/Nirvana & Sex Pistols/The Clash

Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
edited September 2008 in The Porch
The difference between Pearl Jam & Nirvana remind me a lot of the differences between Sex Pistols & The Clash, both the big two bands in different music movements.

Sex Pistols = the band that popularized punk
The Clash = ultimately the better longer, enduring band with the intelligence and being musically adventurous

Nirvana = the band that popularized ''grunge''
Pearl Jam = ultimately the better, longer enduring band with the intelligence.
and being musically adventurous

Discuss.....
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
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  • phychictenasityphychictenasity Posts: 3
    Thoughts_Arrive wrote:
    The difference between Pearl Jam & Nirvana remind me a lot of the differences between Sex Pistols & The Clash, both the big two bands in different music movements.

    Sex Pistols = the band that popularized punk
    The Clash = ultimately the better longer, enduring band with the intelligence and being musically adventurous

    Nirvana = the band that popularized ''grunge''
    Pearl Jam = ultimately the better, longer enduring band with the intelligence.
    and being musically adventurous

    Discuss.....

    Obviously you like pearl jam better than nirvana....but I agree anyways so im not complaining, but seriously I think the pumpkins were the clash of the the grunge era, two sprawling masterpieces like the clash and then imploded...like the clash, actually, it think the direct parallel between the pumpkins and the clash are really striking.
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    phychictenasity wrote:
    Obviously you like pearl jam better than nirvana....but I agree anyways so im not complaining, but seriously I think the pumpkins were the clash of the the grunge era, two sprawling masterpieces like the clash and then imploded...like the clash, actually, it think the direct parallel between the pumpkins and the clash are really striking.


    I cannot split Nirvana & Pearl Jam, love them both. Used to like Nirvana more but now I like 'em the same.
    Pearl Jam I can sing along to & singing make you feel good where as Nirvana just makes you wanna go crazy, release energy to rid you of your problems lol.
    Both bands have the same effect but in contrasting ways.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • jimed14jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    phychictenasity wrote:
    Obviously you like pearl jam better than nirvana....but I agree anyways so im not complaining, but seriously I think the pumpkins were the clash of the the grunge era, two sprawling masterpieces like the clash and then imploded...like the clash, actually, it think the direct parallel between the pumpkins and the clash are really striking.

    UGH! While I agree with the quickness of the Clash's implosion being similar to the Pumpkins .... the idea of the ego of Billy Corgan being lined up against the amazing soul that was Joe Strummer makes me want to vomit.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

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  • She'sCominDownFast!!She'sCominDownFast!! Posts: 49
    I think the Sex Pistols are the biggest pile of shit in the history of music
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  • YieldedYielded Posts: 839
    The Sex Pistols were pretty much manufactured from the ground up. Nirvana weren't.
    "We get these pills to swallow... how they stick in your throat... Tastes like gold..."
  • UpSideDownUpSideDown Posts: 1,966
    people need to get over nirvana...........i didn't think they were that good to begin with.
  • Joe2TheRevengeJoe2TheRevenge Posts: 904
    Corey Erven wrote:
    people need to get over nirvana...........i didn't think they were that good to begin with.

    they weren't.

    Their popularity was 1/3 of Pearl Jam's till Kurt decided to eat a shotgunsicle.
    You can't spell "dumb" without DMB
  • NoonieNoonie Posts: 93
    Joe2TheRevenge wrote:
    they weren't.

    Their popularity was 1/3 of Pearl Jam's till Kurt decided to eat a shotgunsicle.
    This isn't the first time I've heard this argument made here, and it really makes me wonder, since I don't remember much of the early 90s... everybody I talk to who lived through that time seems to remember Nirvana always being the more popular band, but I know Vs. sold a boatload more then In Utero... I'm not really sure how one quantifies the popularity of a band at any given time, but... WERE Pearl Jam bigger then Nirvana? I guess I'll never know. eh, it doesn't matter really. Just curious.
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  • PilatesBettermanPilatesBetterman Posts: 306
    Corey Erven wrote:
    people need to get over nirvana...........i didn't think they were that good to begin with.
    I concur. Dave Grohl contributed just as much to that band esp after Nevermind as Kurt did.
    "So forget the other boys because my love is real.
    Come off your battlefield."
  • PilatesBettermanPilatesBetterman Posts: 306
    Noonie wrote:
    This isn't the first time I've heard this argument made here, and it really makes me wonder, since I don't remember much of the early 90s... everybody I talk to who lived through that time seems to remember Nirvana always being the more popular band, but I know Vs. sold a boatload more then In Utero... I'm not really sure how one quantifies the popularity of a band at any given time, but... WERE Pearl Jam bigger then Nirvana? I guess I'll never know. eh, it doesn't matter really. Just curious.

    Nirvana was certainly WAY more top of mind in the media(Radio, Muchmusic etc) than Pearl Jam was. I remember hearing rumors around the time Vs was to be released that PJ was do no videos for any songs from the album. WTF!?!?!?!? That was unheard of at the time esp for such a popular band, pundits and critics alike called it a suicide move but PJ did it.

    Add to that the fact that Nirvana was always more dramatic than PJ; OD's, Courtney Love etc. Both bands professed to not like the spotlight that was thrust upon them. Nirvana didn;t seem to really want to change it tho, almost like Kurt liked to have that to complain about. PJ on the other hand withdrew from the spotlight almost entirely. And after Kurt's death it became almost like a cocoon. But on the bright side handling those problems with the grace and maturity that PJ did made them stronger people, better musicians and the ultimate band.
    "So forget the other boys because my love is real.
    Come off your battlefield."
  • supersonicyearssupersonicyears Posts: 2,619
    Joe2TheRevenge wrote:
    they weren't.

    Their popularity was 1/3 of Pearl Jam's till Kurt decided to eat a shotgunsicle.
    I agree
    "In the age of darkness
    want to be enlightened"
  • CitizenRickCitizenRick Posts: 1,079
    PilatesBetterman wrote:
    Nirvana was certainly WAY more top of mind in the media(Radio, Muchmusic etc) than Pearl Jam was. I remember hearing rumors around the time Vs was to be released that PJ was do no videos for any songs from the album. WTF!?!?!?!? That was unheard of at the time esp for such a popular band, pundits and critics alike called it a suicide move but PJ did it.

    Add to that the fact that Nirvana was always more dramatic than PJ; OD's, Courtney Love etc. Both bands professed to not like the spotlight that was thrust upon them. Nirvana didn;t seem to really want to change it tho, almost like Kurt liked to have that to complain about. PJ on the other hand withdrew from the spotlight almost entirely. And after Kurt's death it became almost like a cocoon. But on the bright side handling those problems with the grace and maturity that PJ did made them stronger people, better musicians and the ultimate band.

    Very well said! Kurt complained about not wanting fame...but yet they kept doing videos. Pearl Jam put their money where their mouth was and didn't.

    Kurt was the unltimate hypocrite when it came to Pearl Jam.
    "Had my eyes peeled both wide open, and I got a glimpse...of my innocense, got back my inner sence, baby got it...still got it"
  • Hitch-HikerHitch-Hiker Posts: 2,873
    Yielded wrote:
    The Sex Pistols were pretty much manufactured from the ground up. Nirvana weren't.
    Word. And they never had a single good song. Nirvana had a few of those.
    I'll Ride The Wave Where It Takes Me
  • PilatesBettermanPilatesBetterman Posts: 306
    CitizenRick wrote:
    Very well said! Kurt complained about not wanting fame...but yet they kept doing videos. Pearl Jam put their money where their mouth was and didn't.

    Kurt was the unltimate hypocrite when it came to Pearl Jam.
    Kurt was a sick man who MANY people(his own wife included) exploited to make money. I don't think he was a hypocrite so much. In his own suicide note he quoted Neil YOung in saying "It's better to burn out than to fade away" but i think with the right help that young man could have done better things. Ed KNEW that even at the time and I think that's why it hit home so hard for him.
    "So forget the other boys because my love is real.
    Come off your battlefield."
  • CitizenRickCitizenRick Posts: 1,079
    PilatesBetterman wrote:
    Kurt was a sick man who MANY people(his own wife included) exploited to make money. I don't think he was a hypocrite so much. In his own suicide note he quoted Neil YOung in saying "It's better to burn out than to fade away" but i think with the right help that young man could have done better things. Ed KNEW that even at the time and I think that's why it hit home so hard for him.

    Sure...but it always drove me crazy how he totally went out of his way to rip the boys. Meanwhile Ed went out of his way to say nice things about Kurt.
    "Had my eyes peeled both wide open, and I got a glimpse...of my innocense, got back my inner sence, baby got it...still got it"
  • goldrushgoldrush everybody knows this is nowhere Posts: 7,606
    Sex Pistols = now sound very dated
    The Clash = still sound like only The Clash can sound

    Nirvana = now sound very dated (have you listened to Nevermind lately?)
    Pearl Jam = still evolving and still sounding like only PJ can sound
    “Do not postpone happiness”
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  • PilatesBettermanPilatesBetterman Posts: 306
    CitizenRick wrote:
    Sure...but it always drove me crazy how he totally went out of his way to rip the boys. Meanwhile Ed went out of his way to say nice things about Kurt.
    Sick people do sick things. We all should have asked when Kurt was gonna get help not when the next Nirvana album was. Kurt pulled the trigger but WE killed him, we stole his soul, he was a fragile person who couldn;t live up to the demands we put on him
    "So forget the other boys because my love is real.
    Come off your battlefield."
  • Gremmie95Gremmie95 Posts: 749
    PilatesBetterman wrote:
    Sick people do sick things. We all should have asked when Kurt was gonna get help not when the next Nirvana album was. Kurt pulled the trigger but WE killed him, we stole his soul, he was a fragile person who couldn;t live up to the demands we put on him


    eh, don't agree with you on this one.
  • blueeyedevilblueeyedevil Posts: 173
    Yielded wrote:
    The Sex Pistols were pretty much manufactured from the ground up. Nirvana weren't.

    Sex Pistols were NOT manufactured from the ground up. That is a long standing fable based on the ravings of Malcom McLaren, who DID have most of the control over the band until John Lydon joined. If you watch "The Future is Unwritten" about Joe Strummer, you would see that one could also argue that Bernie Rhodes "manufactured" The Clash. The truth is both bands had managers who thought they were just as important as the musicians, and thought they could promote the bands better by acting "punk" themselves. At the end of it all, both bands got the shaft.
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  • blueeyedevilblueeyedevil Posts: 173
    PilatesBetterman wrote:
    I concur. Dave Grohl contributed just as much to that band esp after Nevermind as Kurt did.

    By writing "Marigold"? I love Dave and Novoselic, but their song writing contributions to Nirvana were pretty much nil. Those songs are the work of Kurt Cobain, whether you love them or hate them. Both of the others brought a "sound" to the music, but it wasn't in the songwriting area.
    Philly-4/28/03, Holmdel-7/14/03, Reading-10/1/04, Philly-10/3/05, Camden-5/27/06, Camden-5/28/05, Camden-6/19/08, Camden-6/20/08, MSG- 6/25/08
  • CahootsCahoots Posts: 140
    PilatesBetterman wrote:
    Sick people do sick things. We all should have asked when Kurt was gonna get help not when the next Nirvana album was. Kurt pulled the trigger but WE killed him, we stole his soul, he was a fragile person who couldn;t live up to the demands we put on him


    Lets remember history.

    By the time KC killed himself you couldn't give tickets to a Nirvana show! In Utero didn't go anywhere until after he killed himself.

    On the last leg of the Nirvana final tour they were playing small venues like the PNE forum and even they didn't sell out! I went to the show in Vancouver -it was fucking awesome. But lets not make shit up. Demand was low, In Utero just came out- The only news about KC was that he had tried to kill himself in Rome but failed.

    I find it annoying when people try to make some sort of tragic case for KC beyond the fact his daughter lost a dad and his wife is burning his legacy for shoes.
    Cahoots

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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Why is it not possible to like all 4 of these bands? I mean.. I like Ice Cream... but, not just one flavor.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • tonadaxtonadax Posts: 594
    goldrush wrote:
    Sex Pistols = now sound very dated
    The Clash = still sound like only The Clash can sound

    Nirvana = now sound very dated (have you listened to Nevermind lately?)
    Pearl Jam = still evolving and still sounding like only PJ can sound

    Nirvana sound very dated? are you serious, smell like teen spirit, in bloom and stay away still sound very fresh to my ears.

    Ten it's my favorite album of 90's and it's one of the most dated album of 90's.
  • dpmaydpmay Posts: 643
    Cosmo wrote:
    Why is it not possible to like all 4 of these bands? I mean.. I like Ice Cream... but, not just one flavor.

    AMEN!
  • Surf RiderSurf Rider Posts: 813
    Pearl Jam at the time of Cobain's suicide was the biggest band in the world even though they were in full retreat of the spotlight. I remember the same as what a previous poster said, Nirvana was pretty much done. Dave was leaving and they were not very relevant. Cobain ate some lead and all hell broke loose with calling Nirvana the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you listen to Nirvana live and Pearl Jam live, there is no fucking way anyone can say Nirvana was a better band than Pearl Jam. If you do your just flat out lying. It doesn't matter who is better I agree, but that doesn't change the fact Nirvana couldn't keep up with Pearl Jam in any catagory. It doesn't change the fact that Kurt Cobain couldn't hang from Eddie Vedder's ball sack. He didn't kill himself because he didn't want his art exploted. He killed himself because his 20 minutes of fame was almost over and he knew Pearl Jam was just starting. I know several don't like hearing that but it is true. I'm sure Kurt was looking in on Ed's solo shows from were ever he is thinking, "damn that fucker's good".



    New album's a coming, It's great to love Pearl Jam's music isn't it. 18 years later and were still rocking.

    I think I'll go throw on a little In Utero,





    [size=+9]NOT.[/size]
  • FahkaFahka Posts: 3,187
    PilatesBetterman wrote:
    Sick people do sick things. We all should have asked when Kurt was gonna get help not when the next Nirvana album was. Kurt pulled the trigger but WE killed him, we stole his soul, he was a fragile person who couldn;t live up to the demands we put on him


    biggest load of shit ive ever read. He wrote music, he put out the records, HE MADE THE VIDEOS and he supposedly pulled the trigger. Im sure his short lived fame was probably the highlight of his life , if he'd admit or not.
  • She'sCominDownFast!!She'sCominDownFast!! Posts: 49
    PJAMEDVED wrote:
    He didn't kill himself because he didn't want his art exploted. He killed himself because his 20 minutes of fame was almost over and he knew Pearl Jam was just starting. I know several don't like hearing that but it is true.

    Wow, you've taken "clueless Pearl Jam fanboy" to a whole new level with this one. We get it. You like Pearl Jam and you don't like Nirvana.
    Not To Be Confused With More Expensive (Identical) Import Version
  • Left PorchLeft Porch Posts: 846
    PJAMEDVED wrote:
    Pearl Jam at the time of Cobain's suicide was the biggest band in the world even though they were in full retreat of the spotlight. I remember the same as what a previous poster said, Nirvana was pretty much done. Dave was leaving and they were not very relevant. Cobain ate some lead and all hell broke loose with calling Nirvana the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you listen to Nirvana live and Pearl Jam live, there is no fucking way anyone can say Nirvana was a better band than Pearl Jam. If you do your just flat out lying. It doesn't matter who is better I agree, but that doesn't change the fact Nirvana couldn't keep up with Pearl Jam in any catagory. It doesn't change the fact that Kurt Cobain couldn't hang from Eddie Vedder's ball sack. He didn't kill himself because he didn't want his art exploted. He killed himself because his 20 minutes of fame was almost over and he knew Pearl Jam was just starting. I know several don't like hearing that but it is true. I'm sure Kurt was looking in on Ed's solo shows from were ever he is thinking, "damn that fucker's good".



    New album's a coming, It's great to love Pearl Jam's music isn't it. 18 years later and were still rocking.

    I think I'll go throw on a little In Utero,





    [size=+9]NOT.[/size]

    Sorry buddy, but I don't think Cobain killed himself because he thought he wasn't as good an artist as Eddie Vedder or as popular as Pearl Jam. To me Nirvana and Pearl Jam have/had totally different sounds. Had Cobain not died I think Nirvana would have taken their music to different levels and would still be a very popular band and more importantly a very good band. Would Nirvana be playing sold out shows at MSG? No, but I don't think they ever wanted to. There's no problem liking/loving both bands, I know I do, they're probably my two favorite. Also I believe Cobain and other members of Nirvana had said they wanted to make In Utero a totally different album that wouldn't appeal to everyone who went so crazy over Nevermind. Sort of similar to what PJ did with No Code. By saying that PJ was better than Nirvana because PJ was more popular means that you are probably one of the people Nirvana was trying to get away from by making In Utero. Anyway, long story short, can't we all just get along?
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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    PJAMEDVED wrote:
    Pearl Jam at the time of Cobain's suicide was the biggest band in the world even though they were in full retreat of the spotlight. I remember the same as what a previous poster said, Nirvana was pretty much done. Dave was leaving and they were not very relevant. Cobain ate some lead and all hell broke loose with calling Nirvana the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you listen to Nirvana live and Pearl Jam live, there is no fucking way anyone can say Nirvana was a better band than Pearl Jam. If you do your just flat out lying. It doesn't matter who is better I agree, but that doesn't change the fact Nirvana couldn't keep up with Pearl Jam in any catagory. It doesn't change the fact that Kurt Cobain couldn't hang from Eddie Vedder's ball sack. He didn't kill himself because he didn't want his art exploted. He killed himself because his 20 minutes of fame was almost over and he knew Pearl Jam was just starting. I know several don't like hearing that but it is true. I'm sure Kurt was looking in on Ed's solo shows from were ever he is thinking, "damn that fucker's good".



    New album's a coming, It's great to love Pearl Jam's music isn't it. 18 years later and were still rocking.

    I think I'll go throw on a little In Utero,





    [size=+9]NOT.[/size]
    ...
    Ummm... okay.
    ...
    Now go back up to your room and make out with your Eddie Vedder pillow case.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Jack_C_GregoryJack_C_Gregory Posts: 540
    I realize in a message pit on a Pearl Jam message board there is probably going to be some favoritism thrown towards the home base, but some of these claims against Nirvana are a little over the top.

    There's always the argument that if Nirvana didn't want fame why did they keep making videos? There have been plenty of bands who have made videos and still kept their artistic integrity. Keep in mind that Cobain was a visual artist as well as a musician. Why not take advantage of creating a visual piece of art in the form of a video if a record company is going to pay for it. Between 1990 and 2002 Sonic Youth made 23 music videos and it didn't really push them into a mass popularity. Even Black Flag and the Minutemen made videos and they still kept their small fan base.

    While Cobain did rip the boys at the beginning of the Seattle explosion, he recanted his earlier remarks a number of times. There is numerous evidence of this on youtube. In fact there is video after the '92 VMAs where Krist says, "Why hate a band like Pearl Jam when you can hate Guns n' Roses?"

    Nevermind does not sound dated. Out of all of the Nirvana material the album that sounds most dated would probably be Bleach or Incesticide(which had a lot of Bleach era material). Ten sounds more dated than anything the two bands have created.

    I would have to say that the most absurd post I read was the claim that Cobain killed himself because Pearl Jam was taking off and his 20 minutes was up. The direct competition of those two bands was more media hype than anything else. I really doubt the two bands were creating their albums in response to what the other was doing as far as sound goes.(Considering that neither band sounded anything alike) If that's the case then he might have well killed himself because Mariah Carey was also taking off around that time.

    I liked the comment about the Ice Cream. I think that is the best way to go about it.
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