How is Occupy Wall Street Not Like the TEA Party??
gimmesometruth27
St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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Check... and Mate.
Hail, Hail!!!
Indeed,
We do things legally with civility! We get a permit, rent a fence, and have our protest!
Most of you should stand with us.....because i see some similiarities with our protests! LOL GO FIGURE
We have a platform! Less Govt. Less Taxes, Constitutinal preservation, accountability, etc.
We have a platform and organization! We dont just block bridges.....we do it right!
Do it right, get a permit, have your protest, be civil and I will stand with you!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
i think more people would be with you if they believed in what you believe in. i think most people on my side want taxes because we understand they are a necessary part of living in a society. and unlike the tea party the majority of us do not want the health care law repealed, and we do not want religion in our public schools, or anywhere in our government for that matter. so i would stand with the tea party if i believed in their message, but i don't so i won't... i refuse to be aligned with dick armey, michelle bachmann, glenn beck, sarah palin, eric cantor, rick perry, et al...and I refuse to take marching orders from the koch brothers or roger ailes and fox news...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
So, you protest just to protest. If the tv says black, I say white. And, I'll disrupt your lives to tell you. If you get on tv, you're caving to the media. If you don't put me on tv, you're ignoring my cause. What happens when you end up on tv?
Yes, there are people in the tea party movement that are looney. But, at least they are not blocking people from getting to THEIR jobs and looking for hand outs. Plus, they are not running up NYPD overtime that will cause a city already stressed budget wise. And if it continues this weekend (will be interesting to see what the Jewish segment of the protest does), they get double time. Bravo. Why not write your Congressman and save the taxpayers money that they don't have. I don't see the tea party doing that to this extent. Talk about selfish.
I do not fully support the tea party. They have some salient points that I've been able to hear because they've done it mostly in a civil fashion. The Wall Street Nuts (As they should be called) are all style and no substance, as the union hijacking has highlighted.
Will you take them from the unions?
What we have here is exactly like the tea party. A group of fed up people brought together by a lot of different issues. Only this time it the more liberal ideology. And now we are seeing the same thing that happened to the tea party start to happen to this group. They are starting to be "joined" (ie take over) by the Unions, and the democratic party won't be far behind. Then, all we'll end up with it's extreme people yelling at each other...hey, wait, that's where we already are.
it does remind me a lot of the beginning of the TEA party which was not brought about by the healthcare law, or screaming at town hall meetings. It was brought about by the bank bailouts and irresponsible spending and had very little to do with the healthcare law. Which really should be re-titled health insurance law, it does very little to actually reform how people receive healthcare, and does quite a bit to line the pockets of insurance companies. But you can only keep that many people on the same page for so long before outside influences become a problem. If this group continues on into the future you will see it get usurped as well.
People are very concerned about being compared to the tea party. There is no reason to try and distance yourself from a group that is very similar in origin. Disgusted by government action/inaction, people were moved to have their voices heard. I say good luck to this group, I disagree with the finer details but am proud of any American who will stand up and have their voice heard and actually start caring about politics. I don't agree with them on some of their finer points, but the overall message of severing the tie between the Gov't and corporations is admirable. I think they are shooting the messenger and if many of the people out there complaining about the corporate influence on government still support Obama...it proves that they are railing against the wrong enemy...
Samantha B's piece last night on the tea party and the bathroom situation made me laugh out loud a few times. I find her very funny.
***meant to say her piece on the OWS and the bathroom situation.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Seriously, you're pissed about them not getting a permit? Really?
Why do we keep comparing this to bigger things? This protest was about a few sniveling college kids that wanted their loans to be paid off by CEO's that they think make too much money. It's morphing, but that's not the British taxing a foreign (soon to be) confederacy. Let's not make them out to be more than they really are.
1) Jon tossed in a clip of Hannity saying that the protesters were using their rights to protest the bailouts. Then he joked that that was 09 Hannity talking about the Tea Party. (P.S. I hate Hannity, but that's another story)
My question is: These people don't seem to be anti-bailout, they seem more anti-"the top 1%" and anti-capitalism (so I kinda agree with Hannity)... am I wrong? I see more signs about the top 1% then I do about bailouts... in fact, the signs about bailouts I've seen, were asking for handouts. Why is this?
I'm not saying these people don't have a right to protest. But, we have a right to agree or disagree with what they are protesting. To be real, I still don't think anyone knows what they really want. If they are anti-bailout... I'm totally on board. But, you can't be anti-bailout and then want a bailout.
2) I don't see these people being like the Tea Party ... it's not the same because one is for limiting government (and that's known). The other is for a mix of things that, most likely that is for enlarging government (and that's confusing). It's confusing because their message is not simple. It's not "don't let government take more money or run things".... it's tax the top 1% more, and I'm against bailouts except while I get them and Unions are great.... To me, one has a clear message (less government), the other's message is all over the place (because they don't want to say "more government")... which is what they really want.
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it seems you are all trying to discredit the movement because you don't agree with it. walking onto a bridge was the same fucking thing as interrupting a town hall and shouting down a congressman, it is just on a larger scale. would you have felt the same about the civil rights march across that bridge lead by MLK?
i will reply to all of the posts addressed to me in time. it is hard to do it all at once in between patients...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I have been reading a bunch of these posts saying that the students are asking for bailouts. They are just pointing out how big banks and WS recieved these huge bailouts so why shouldn't they get them? Hypocrisy.
They dont really think that the government should pay their student loans. They are just pointing to the obvious irony.
They are opposed to what has been happening in this country over the past 3 (or 4) decades: the banking elite, Wall St., hedge funds, etc. that are manipulating and bastardizing Capitalism to line their own pockets and to buy influence in our government. The unfettered freedom that the "ownership class" has been given to do this is unnerving and quite scary. What Wall St. does, what the big banks have morphed into IS NOT CAPITALISM, in the same sense that we no longer have a democracy, but a corporate oligarchy.
America:
I will post this again for those of you who keep saying, "they're Wall St nutbags" or "they don't have a platform". This is from the website of the Occupy Wall St. movement.
P.S. My friend, a commodities trader on Wall St, supports the protests 100%. The difference between him and
and those who denounce it: he is not a greedy, selfish individual who lives his life in order to make profits at the expense of others. He, and other friends of mine WITH EXPEREINCE9something lacking on this board) will tell you stories and FACTS (another thing lacking on this board and in this country) that would blow your fucking minds.
Anyone you see/hear who opposes these protests has a hidden agenda. In other words, they love the status quo.
P.P.S. Despite saying that I am done with this board, I came on here today to take a break and look at some setlists. Unfortunately, I was dragged into the vortex that is the AMT, and I just had to respond to some of the filth that I saw in some of the threads.
A Word from the Occupy Wall St. Movement (a repost for those who can't read)
Dear Readers,
What follows is the first official, collective statement of the protesters in Zuccotti Park:
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one's skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
To the people of the world, We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
^^ this
I will pose one question to both of you, who is more at fault for the current situation described by the protesters, the "1%" or the government?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Thats a good question, it's almost like the chicken and the egg. The government should have had regulations in place so these indiscretions by the "greedy" couldnt have happened. The truth of it is I think they are both almost one in the same now. Judging by how much the government.....on both sides.....protects the top 1%'s interests its tuff to tell the difference. That is why I dont think it really matters where they protest, New York or Washington (both kind of the same) except to me New York (Wall Street) is more symbolic and will maybe have more of an impact.
Yup... My totally wildly unfounded speculation that is based upon nothing other than what I believe... MoveOn.org will highjack Occupy Wall Street for their extreme left wing purposes... just as FOX News highjacked the Tea Party for the Republican Party.
Hail, Hail!!!
Did the top 1% provide the bailouts or was it the government? Did the top 1% keep interest rates too low for too long leading to the housing bubble and collapse or was it the government? Was it the top 1% that has been printing money to combat this crisis or was that the government? Was it the top 1% that decided to set up new entitlement programs, despite the full knowledge that the other ones would be broke in several years, or was that the government? Was it the top 1% or the government that decided to spend their way out of the recession? Finally, and most importantly, is it the top 1% or the government that sets tax rates?
What is it exactly that the top 1% has done. The more I learn about these protests, these people are being spoon fed talking points from the current administration. This isn't about bailouts, it's about deflecting blame from the current administration.
If this was really about the problems with bailouts, I would be totally supporting this cause. I think we all know, it's not.
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That is so myopic and shows how clueless they are.
First - it you hate something don't you do it too. Sorry, had to do it. They hate the bailouts, but they should be bailed out?
Second - bailing out a company that employees 10's of thousands of people and supports the general financial structure of the country is not nearly the same thing as paying off someone's student loans. Apples and oranges.
I'm fine disagreeing with the bailouts. Hell - I do. But, there is no irony or hypocrisy here and they look stupid making this comparison.
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/10/07/some-%E2%80%98occupy-sacramento%E2%80%99-protesters-lash-out-at-questions/
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To answer your question it was the top 1% who needed the bailouts and yes to almost everyone of your other questions.
Im pretty sure you missed my point, to me they are one in the same (1%=gov=republicans=democrats). This protest is bigger than the current administration. There is plenty of blame to go around, both with this current government, the one before it and the next government. The system is broken, these protesters are trying to expose it. Your politicians are bought and paid for before they are elected.
You're right, the bailouts shouldn't have happened (at least in the present form). The same people protesting today I am sure were the same people objecting to the big banks and others getting the bailouts (most Americans). Giving money out "willy nilly" with no strings attached was bullshit.....but to me it was them taking money out of your pocket (taxpayer) and then switching money from one hand to the other. The gov=1%.....they took YOUR money and gave it to the top 1%. If I were you I would have been out in the streets then....some were. It's never to late.
"President Barack Obama referenced the nationwide demonstrations Thursday and called them a sign that voters are upset with Republican leadership, who he accused of blocking efforts to spark job growth."
I honestly didn't think it would be the president starting this for his party. Wow. Well done jackass.
I think you're stretching. The top 1% have a right to make money and not have it confiscated by the government, they already pay about 40% of all income taxes. You want to tax them further. I get that, but trying to tie that to the bailouts and the financial crisis is silly. They didn't take my money and give it to them. That's also silly.
Nevertheless, I agree with some of your other points. Like the bailouts should have never happened.
My point: Government is to blame. And the irony is these people are protesting government, they just don't want to protest government because there guy is in the white house. That's why this is so confusing for them to have a coherent message.
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if ^^this^^ isnt alarming to some I'm at a loss.
Who would have lost their jobs and their houses if the bailout didn't happen? The 1% or the protestors? The 1% (which really is a silly tag and is just another class warfare mechanism) would still have their houses on the French Riveira, and 10's of thousands of people would be out of jobs. I was against the bailouts. But, that was what the money did. If GM had failed, the CEO would have still had his millions from his prior years' salaires. It's the union that would have taken the brunt. So, complain about the bailouts, but the people protesting are the people it benefitted most. Handouts are never good. It creates this monster.
the usurpation has begun!!!
wow.
As I said before, anyone down at those protests that still will support Obama in the next election truly doesn't get it.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
silly? just take a quick look at who got your money....
http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list
If I remember correctly they did lose their jobs...and their homes.
1) There's no units on the x and y axis. Did a third grader make this chart?
2) I'm assuming it's growth. Even so, you can't compare medians (median income) with averages (the top 1%, which I think is an average). This would be an example of skewing data. Change it, I'd like to see the result.
3) Cut out the capital gains, and let's see how that effects the chart. Capital gains affect business and create jobs, which spill back to the median income (via job creation). They are definitely pushing the top 1% up. Yet, also helping the median (but less so). They are good, but skew the results.
4) Why's the data end before President Obama was elected? What's happened since?
5) Why is growth exactly equal in 1945? Is this data indexed? If so, that fudges the whole thing.
6) Even if there were clear cut answers to all of the above, I still don't get it. Everyone's incomes have been growing. So, if Person A's grows faster, they should be penalized? Even if Person A is paying much more as a percentage of his income in taxes already? Sorry... I don't buy it.
7) This has nothing little to nothing to do with the financial crisis / the recession,... or why people are jobless.
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