Help with a Pearl Jam project

SurreyBassist

Hy guys

I am a newbie here but I was wondering if I could ask for your help here. I am a Music student from Surrey in England and I am doing an research project on Pearl Jam and the supposed "self-sabotaging" of their career. Being one of my favourite bands I thought this would be an awesome topic to look into.

Over the next couple of months I will be on here starting threads with questions on Pearl Jam and on topics that I will be covering in my essay.

My first question to you all is "What is your opinion on the more experimental songs on Vitalogy and your reactions to when you first heard them?" (Any opinions from fans when it was first released would be awesome too).

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Simon

JP2026766

My first opinion was that I didn't like them. But as I listened more and more and how they worked with the context of the album, they grew on me.

dunkman

SurreyBassist wrote:

My first question to you all is "What is your opinion on the more experimental songs on Vitalogy and your reactions to when you first heard them?" (Any opinions from fans when it was first released would be awesome too).

i've never ever listened to HeyFoxyblahdeblah all the way through..

i find it embarrassing and utterly pointless considering the material they left off the album. Pry To and Bugs are pretty non-descript also... Aye Davanita is listenable... but still amazingly pointless.

No Code doesnt have any weirdness on it does it? i like No Code

Fahka

knew it was gold the minute i heard it ......i always found that the experimental songs gave the album much more depth and made the album more into a character rather than just a bunch of random songs on a record.

Good luck on the paper!

EquallyWorthless

i skip bugs without fail STILL to this day, the others I like they help the album flow.

NewDamage

As someone who purchased the vinyl version upon release date (as it was released 2 weeks before the cd/cassette), I can say I was initially disappointed. I thought the album as a whole was a huge step-back from Vs, and only after a few listens did I grow to appreciate it.

Pry To I liked, and still do. Its got elements of funk and I like the guitars. And on the supposed "self-sabotaging", I feel it sends a clear message: "p-r-i-v-a-c-y is priceless to me." Pearl Jam were the absolute biggest band in the world at the time. I imagine that might be hard for some newer fans to grasp hold of, but whatever band is fucking huge today (and I don't even know who that would be), Pearl Jam was that band in 93-94.

Bugs is and was musically annoying as shit, but the lyrics are just weird and cool.

Aye Davanita gets skipped often. Didn't like it from day one and still think it serves no purpose.

Stupid Mop or Heyfoxymophandlemama was obviously the strangest of the bunch. Really disappointing that it closed the album considering the strength of Release and Indifference on the first two records. As such, I consider Immortality the final track on Vitalogy.

Sometimes I wonder why these tracks were added, as at the time it was rumored that Vitalogy was close to being complete shortly after the release of Vs. Yet more than a year passed between the release of the two albums. I don't know if they needed more for the record, and just did the experimental thing, or what it was for. I know at that time Epic/Sony probably didn't question it. Vs. moved nearly a million records first week out and that was unheard of at that time. Epic/Sony were probably looking to capitalize on anything Pearl Jam they could get their hands on. But the four "experimental" tracks are definitely the four throw-aways, looking at their catalog as a whole. I was rather disappointed they took up the space on that record then, and I remain pretty much the same way now (save the funky vibe of Pry To)

washedinblack91

i was scared shitless the first time i heard foxymop. the other songs i liked right off the bat. songs like aye davanita and bugs and pry to i thought were cool because it was just pearl jam fucking around, being themselves, having some fun.

_

SurreyBassist wrote:

My first question to you all is "What is your opinion on the more experimental songs on Vitalogy and your reactions to when you first heard them?" (Any opinions from fans when it was first released would be awesome too).

To be honest, when it was first released it didn't really hold my attention. Of course, I was quite a big younger then.

bigPJfan

Hello mate

sounds like a good project...

When Vitalogy released, I stayed up til midnight to go buy it at a downtown boston record shop, and listened to it as soon as I got home.

To answer your question..my first thought after listening was that I was convinced Eddie was going to kill himself.

It was shortly after Kurt's death, and I saw PJ in BOS (april 1994), at the OLD Garden...they almost cancelled the show, as it was 8 days after Kurt left...

It had a huge impact on the band back in the day.

No a single songs on that record sing of hope or happiness...have you deciphered the muffled lyric in Corduroy yet...or are you that much of a newbie?

big

pretext

Fucking "Bugs." I hadn't listened to it in years and just tried to again recently...and it still sucks. It's like a 4-year old tried to copy Tom Waits.

Usually end the album after 'Immortality." The other two I can take or leave depending on my mood. But nothing irritates me quite the way "Bugs" can. It keeps Vitalogy from topping my PJ best album list.

Corey Lynn

Heyfoxymophandlemama, that's me is the equivalent to Revolution 9 on the White album.

the wolf

i thought it was different. and not much jumped out at me at first. i think thats why it is such a brilliant album. because every track, and i do mean every track is just over the top amazing.
i love Bugs. i thought it was just really cool that they, and i mean the rest of the guys would let Ed do something lke that just to let off steam.
Pry To is really great, just because it was the easiest way to say "leave me the fuck alone", without coming out and saying it. which made it very cool IMO.
i think Aye Davanita just has a cool sound to it.
and as far as im concerned Imortality is the last "track" on the album.
Stupid Mop is a ghost track. and it has a purpose and serves that purpose.

as someone else stated, i wasnt sure Ed was going to "make it", and it kinda scared me because of what this band already meant to me.

and i think they say it best on Single Video Theory, they probably wouldnt be a band still today, if they had not "sabotaged" their career.

sorry this was such a long post, but i remember that time very well. after the album was out for a bit , i really thought it would be hard to top that album. thank god i was wrong and we were given No Code, and Yield, and yes Pearl Jam/Avocado.

good luck with your project. feel free to PM me, i love talking about this period of the band. seems no one else usually likes to though

vedderfan10

Corey Lynn wrote:

Heyfoxymophandlemama, that's me is the equivalent to Revolution 9 on the White album.

I was just going to say that....

Weird songs on an album = keeps the buzz going about the record - a lot of people talked about that record when it was released because of the weird bits of, I dunno, frustration with the record industry? It sold so many copies based on the fact it was Pearl Jam and then it's like, WTF...? Good for them...!

PS. I was not such a HUGE PJ fan back then, although I was quite a fan, and when I first heard about Kurt Cobain's death, my first thought was how Ed was going to deal with it...and I have no idea why I thought that....I remember commenting to my husband, "Someone better keep an eye on that Pearl Jam guy...he might be next..."

YAY! Conservative minority! You lose Stephen Harper! HA-HA!

bernmodi

I found it quite easy to love this album, also like Davanita, Bugs (still makes me smile) and Pry to, but could never find some sense about Heyfoxymop... I also found the artwork is amazing and fascinating. Another thing that struck me was the lyrics of Satan's Bed. I found this anti-promiscuity stance is not necessarily a rock'n'roll issue, but I really like it.

dangerboy

from a marketing standpoint, they sabotaged the album by releasing unlikely songs as the first single to radio. spin the black circle was the A side, tremor christ was the B. i remember when it first arrived at the radio station, and the program director was NOT going to play spin the black circle, so he played tremor christ instead. a great song, no doubt, but not a "single" that kills on rock radio. if they wanted huge media, huge sales, massive attention, they would have/should have released betterman as the first advance single.

Chazz

Vitology is my favourite PJ album, but I gotta say the 'weird' songs do detract from it overall.....they have grown on me over the years, but I still think that if they had been left off, Vitology would be hailed amongst the fans as THE classic PJ album (like Yield or No Code is now) just because the other songs on this album are so bloody brilliant

Welcome to the board your project sounds really interesting

Julien

SurreyBassist wrote:

Hy guys

My first question to you all is "What is your opinion on the more experimental songs on Vitalogy and your reactions to when you first heard them?" (Any opinions from fans when it was first released would be awesome too).

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Simon

I don't remember what was my reaction when I first heard the "songs". But I certainly thought something like "what the hell is that ?".

My opinions: those tracks are part of vtalogy and help creating the atmosphere of the album. it's like musical parts between different acts.
I can't listen to vitalogy without listening to the "fillers".
I love bugs

nuffingman

Vitalogy is a superb album with some of their best songs.

I did think with the odd stuff that perhaps they were losing their minds. I'm still not sure of the point.

pdalowsky

Clearly Vitalogy was experimental, but whether it was an attempt to alienate their fame is tough to judge,

I think its more that its a result of the bands reaction to the negatives of fame (a better reaction that a shotgun) or certainly Eds reaction.

In response to how good the record is, apart from the obvious comments mentioned above about the obvious 'drivel' songs, the other that stands out for me is Bugs (edit, got carried away), I think to put it lightly its shit. How that appears on the same record as Corduroy, and betterman I'll never know

pirlo21

I think this is the period when Eddie's influence became stronger on the band.
I always look at Vitalogy & No Code as Eddie albums.
The lyrics, the styling, the direction...all just screams Eddie to me.

I'd just started 6th form (age 16-18) in school when Vitalogy came out, and just loved the album. There are lots of stresses, strains and attention from all corners on you at that age. Friend, family, girlfriends, school, part-time jobs, trying to get to University etc etc. The album just felt right at the time, just sort of 'fitted'.

Good luck with your project. Doesn't sound like work, more like a hobbie!!!

pirlo21

pdalowsky wrote:

In response to how good the record is, apart from the obvious comments mentioned above about the obvious 'drivel' songs, the other that stands out for me is Rats, I think to put it lightly its shit. How that appears on the same record as Corduroy, and betterman I'll never know

Sorry for being an arse, but Rats is on Vs!!

pdalowsky

Ha ha ha, should have said bugs...oops

NewDamage

dangerboy wrote:

from a marketing standpoint, they sabotaged the album by releasing unlikely songs as the first single to radio. spin the black circle was the A side, tremor christ was the B. i remember when it first arrived at the radio station, and the program director was NOT going to play spin the black circle, so he played tremor christ instead. a great song, no doubt, but not a "single" that kills on rock radio. if they wanted huge media, huge sales, massive attention, they would have/should have released betterman as the first advance single.

I remember both songs getting a lot of airplay at the time. Both charted as well I believe. But I think I see where you're going with this. Those songs, plus the other singles released from the album (Not For You, Immortality) were certainly not going to cater to the casual Pearl Jam fan. Maybe Immortality, but think of how the general public would have loved a song like Nothingman (which still got quite a bit of radio play I recall, though not a single). Still the album started amazingly strong on the merits that it was simply a Pearl Jam album. The vinyl charted for god's sake! Then the cd/cassette again moved close to a million first week.

What I think, obviously, made the album a continued success after the initial success was Better Man. Never a single, but somebody somewhere decided to start playing it. It was a song that almost never "made it" because of Eddie's alleged reluctance to record it because it was unquestionably going to be a "hit." That song got crazy amounts of airplay and helped push the album to eventually 5 million sales US.

To me, and I think a lot of people, the DIY tour following Vitalogy and then the inaccessibilty of No Code is what alienated fans and so-called "sabotaged" their career. Probably has little to do with the experimental songs.

violetpsyche

As you can see, the issue of Vitalogy (and No Code, for that matter) is divisive amongst fans. One thing I love about the band is their desire to produce what they want to and not pander to the demands of others. For this reason I have always supported their creative decisions and always will: the evolution of a band is a fascinating process to witness and this band has certainly had it's interesting moments.

Vitalogy was produced at a time of great strain and pressure on the band but particulary on Eddie Vedder and the more experimental tracks are part of the expression of those conditions. Like some others, I was pretty concerned for Eddie Vedder when I saw him sing Not For You on SNL and then heard the album - he seemed so angry and emotionally volatile. I would not change anything about Vitalogy, even if some of the tracks make for difficult listening. Personally, I love Aye Davanita because it's soothing, Pry To is fine but not a great track to pop up if you have it on random, I thought Bugs was hilarious the first few times but it does jar the nerves a little, and Stupid Mop scares the living bejesus out of me.

I'm glad this band does things that potentially are going to piss people off because it makes for interesting debate, if nothing else

TheDecline13

the first time i heard mophandlemama, i was blown away by the deep ass shit in that song. maybe a little too long but thats it

I dont consider anything else on that album "weird"

iamica

Vitalogy was the first Pearl Jam album I listened to. I think the weird, experimental tracks like Bugs were what made me take a closer look at their other stuff.

TheDudeisaPJfan

I first heard Vitalogy on a special radio premier of the album. At the time, I was a huge fan, more of a machismo, testosterone type. Although I connected with previous two albums, I had yet to "get it". Upon my first listen to Vitalogy I was a little disappointed cause I built it up so much to my friends and made them gather around the radio to listen. Although, it wasn't what I expected, I still enjoyed it to say the least. I remember feeling that enormous rush of joy by just hearing new music from them, but seeing the look on the roommates faces as they turned their noses to that sound was a little harsh. But, it wasn't until I got the CD and listened to the whole thing through with the booklet in hand, that I finally "got it". I learned it wasn't just about one or two songs that everyone gets off to, like Ten and VS. it was about the album as a whole. The tone, the feel, the sound, etc. That's when I didn't give a shit if I heard another PJ song on the radio, cause that's not a personal experience such as the one you have while listening to the albums and being able to interpret the music for your self. I think that most rock fans are lazy, they want the easy riff and the easy lyric, they don't want to think, much like television viewers. PJ probably started turning the average fan off when, in my opinion, starting making their fans think. To this day I consider my self extremely lucky to be a part of the last 18 years of this bands music. I think both Vitalogy and No Code are some of their finest work and I consistently listen to those two albums more than the others in the PJ catalog.

Rockon

Ms. Haiku

I don't think the songs are experimental. I don't listen to the last song if that's the experimental song.

Just looked above at other posts. Yes, bugs was experimental in a metamophosis kindof way, but still quirky and cute. Bugs was the first time I heard the Chicago accent from Eddie "Tickle my nose (ya)" It made me miss the east coast.

The lyrics are very clear, metaphors were easily understood. As far as what I thought about it - I bought it the day it came out, and played it non-stop for 3 days. I associate that record with window drafts/chills/cold because I listened to it on walkmans in Seattle cafes in December. Great songs. I didn't feel the self-sabotage from a fan perspective because I was still a huge fan, and the album was still excellent. I like the songs more now that I have seen them in great concerts. Tremor Christ is a great early-point-of-concert-song.

Oops, posted about some VS songs previously.

SurreyBassist

Thanks for all the opinions guys. I have decided that the bulk of my project will be on whether the actions taken by the band after Ten were the reason behind them surviving the grunge.

I don't have a clear question yet but your opinions are helping me for one.

Cheers all

Simon

violetpsyche

SurreyBassist wrote:

Thanks for all the opinions guys. I have decided that the bulk of my project will be on whether the actions taken by the band after Ten were the reason behind them surviving the grunge.

I don't have a clear question yet but your opinions are helping me for one.

Cheers all

Simon

You just reminded me of a conversation I had with my husband the other day. We were pondering over why certain styles of rock and certain frontmen stay 'cool' for longer than others. Unsurprisingly, we decided that killing oneself at the height of one's fame is a surefire way of staying revelant to teenagers indefinitely, which is why you still see kids in Kurt Cobain t-shirts today. I realised that Eddie Vedder's success in surviving through the toughest years meant the failure of his ability to ever remain a relevant icon to younger generations. This is quite a depressing thought - if he had killed himself, would he be as revered as Cobain? It's strange because, as sad as Cobain's death was, I always admired Vedder's persistance and strength and found solace in his ability to survive rather than gaining inspiration from a romantic ideal of fragility.

Sorry, I know this is rather tangential to the topic but I would love to hear what others think about this.

zolstice

I picked up the LP a week before the CD was released and just stared at it in awe. I was very much in the thick of a very tumultuous adolescence, and Pearl Jam is the band that made me discover how powerful music can be at helping you get through the hard shit.

I bought the record not even knowing if my dad still had a stylus that worked on the record player. Much to my joy he did, and even better still it was an old stylus so I got a lot of that wonderful crackle and hiss off of my brand new LP.

The album immediately was, and still is my favorite Pearl Jam album, and part of the reason is because of the weirder songs. The album was about a perfect a portrait of myself as there could be at that point in my life. There were times when I was filled with rage, and anger, and resentment, and those times I shouted along to Courderoy, Last Exit and Not for You while trying to keep the harmful emotions from lashing out at others. There were times I was incredibly morose and blue and those times I listened to Immortality while contemplating how I was going to hold onto my own life. There were times when I thought I just wanted to get outside of my head, and that is when the weird songs helped me to realize that everyone is a little crazy at times. Bugs allowed me to celebrate the things that pissed me off about how I was treated, Aye Davinita was a mantra to cool me down when I didn't want to go over the edge, and heyfoxymophandlemama that's me was one of the most therapeutic songs in the world for me. At my lowest times I would throw on the record and the headphones, crank it up, and just loose myself in the layers of instruments and audio samples, hearing something new every time.

And above it all, when I was feeling my happiest because I had found something that showed me and taught me so much, that opened my eyes and helped me keep my pain and depression in perspective, I'd play Spin the Black Circle just about as loud as my stereo would allow and thanked whoever is in charge for making it so that people who are so inclined and inspired could create the music that they want and put it out there for people to hear, knowing that not everyone is going to love it, and not caring about whether they do or not, just so long as they get to put it out there.