2025-2026 NHL Offseason

Vitalogensia

I'm going to a game of the World Championships in Czechia this year, which will be fun I'm sure, but nothing like a proper Olympic game with NHLers.

Johnny Abruzzo

Vitalogensia said:

I'm going to a game of the World Championships in Czechia this year, which will be fun I'm sure, but nothing like a proper Olympic game with NHLers.

Do some of the guys who missed the playoffs still play in that?

Vitalogensia

Johnny Abruzzo said:

Vitalogensia said:

I'm going to a game of the World Championships in Czechia this year, which will be fun I'm sure, but nothing like a proper Olympic game with NHLers.

Do some of the guys who missed the playoffs still play in that?

Typically, yes.  Which is kind of fun, in that you never know who'll be there.  

1ThoughtKnown

I was getting a little bored with International hockey, but it’s been long enough. That 4-Nations thing seems rather boring, but the Oldlympdix should be worth watching. 

See if Canada can three-peat with the best-on-best at the Oldlympdix. That win at Sochi was a yawner… there was no doubt. Vancouver 2010 was pretty entertaining… I seem to remember an OT winner…

The gap is closing, someday I hope Canada is like the Brazil or Germany of Football. Always in the top 5, but there are lots of countries who can complete. Switzerland and Germany have come a long way, and the US NDT program has helped elevate the talented players who come from the US.

Hell look at the Nucks roster… it’s full of US All-Stars. Hughes, Demko, Miller, Boeser. I think they only have two Canadians on the team when at full strength (Soucy, Meyers) and both are defencemen. Extra skaters like the 7th and 8th D are Canadian, as well as the 13th forward. To summarize:

US - 9 (5F , 2D , 2G)
Sweden - 4 (4F)
Russia - 2 (1F, 1D)
Canada - 2 (2D)
Czechia - 1 (1D)
Switzerland - 1 (1F)
Latvia - 1 (1F)

On top of that, their best prospects are 3 Swedes, a Russian, a Finn, and a Canadian. They traded a good prospect for Lindholm who was American. 

I think it is awesome the sport has grown. At some point there will be a superstar from outside Canada who could join Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid at the top of the all-time greats list.  After that top five there are some guys like Jagr to consider.  The Hughes brothers are all great. Quinn is putting up some numbers in the Orr/Coffey rarified air. Maybe it’s him!  

mrussel1

1ThoughtKnown said:

I was getting a little bored with International hockey, but it’s been long enough. That 4-Nations thing seems rather boring, but the Oldlympdix should be worth watching. 

See if Canada can three-peat with the best-on-best at the Oldlympdix. That win at Sochi was a yawner… there was no doubt. Vancouver 2010 was pretty entertaining… I seem to remember an OT winner…

The gap is closing, someday I hope Canada is like the Brazil or Germany of Football. Always in the top 5, but there are lots of countries who can complete. Switzerland and Germany have come a long way, and the US NDT program has helped elevate the talented players who come from the US.

Hell look at the Nucks roster… it’s full of US All-Stars. Hughes, Demko, Miller, Boeser. I think they only have two Canadians on the team when at full strength (Soucy, Meyers) and both are defencemen. Extra skaters like the 7th and 8th D are Canadian, as well as the 13th forward. To summarize:

US - 9 (5F , 2D , 2G)
Sweden - 4 (4F)
Russia - 2 (1F, 1D)
Canada - 2 (2D)
Czechia - 1 (1D)
Switzerland - 1 (1F)
Latvia - 1 (1F)

On top of that, their best prospects are 3 Swedes, a Russian, a Finn, and a Canadian. They traded a good prospect for Lindholm who was American. 

I think it is awesome the sport has grown. At some point there will be a superstar from outside Canada who could join Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid at the top of the all-time greats list.  After that top five there are some guys like Jagr to consider.  The Hughes brothers are all great. Quinn is putting up some numbers in the Orr/Coffey rarified air. Maybe it’s him!  

As much as I hate him, it's hard not to consider Ovechkin as an all-time great.  If you're talking D, then Lindstrom has to be there.  

1ThoughtKnown

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

I was getting a little bored with International hockey, but it’s been long enough. That 4-Nations thing seems rather boring, but the Oldlympdix should be worth watching. 

See if Canada can three-peat with the best-on-best at the Oldlympdix. That win at Sochi was a yawner… there was no doubt. Vancouver 2010 was pretty entertaining… I seem to remember an OT winner…

The gap is closing, someday I hope Canada is like the Brazil or Germany of Football. Always in the top 5, but there are lots of countries who can complete. Switzerland and Germany have come a long way, and the US NDT program has helped elevate the talented players who come from the US.

Hell look at the Nucks roster… it’s full of US All-Stars. Hughes, Demko, Miller, Boeser. I think they only have two Canadians on the team when at full strength (Soucy, Meyers) and both are defencemen. Extra skaters like the 7th and 8th D are Canadian, as well as the 13th forward. To summarize:

US - 9 (5F , 2D , 2G)
Sweden - 4 (4F)
Russia - 2 (1F, 1D)
Canada - 2 (2D)
Czechia - 1 (1D)
Switzerland - 1 (1F)
Latvia - 1 (1F)

On top of that, their best prospects are 3 Swedes, a Russian, a Finn, and a Canadian. They traded a good prospect for Lindholm who was American. 

I think it is awesome the sport has grown. At some point there will be a superstar from outside Canada who could join Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid at the top of the all-time greats list.  After that top five there are some guys like Jagr to consider.  The Hughes brothers are all great. Quinn is putting up some numbers in the Orr/Coffey rarified air. Maybe it’s him!  

As much as I hate him, it's hard not to consider Ovechkin as an all-time great.  If you're talking D, then Lindstrom has to be there.  

Fair, but not top 5. I couldn’t even squeeze Messier in there. McDavid is just too awesome. 

mrussel1

1ThoughtKnown said:

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

I was getting a little bored with International hockey, but it’s been long enough. That 4-Nations thing seems rather boring, but the Oldlympdix should be worth watching. 

See if Canada can three-peat with the best-on-best at the Oldlympdix. That win at Sochi was a yawner… there was no doubt. Vancouver 2010 was pretty entertaining… I seem to remember an OT winner…

The gap is closing, someday I hope Canada is like the Brazil or Germany of Football. Always in the top 5, but there are lots of countries who can complete. Switzerland and Germany have come a long way, and the US NDT program has helped elevate the talented players who come from the US.

Hell look at the Nucks roster… it’s full of US All-Stars. Hughes, Demko, Miller, Boeser. I think they only have two Canadians on the team when at full strength (Soucy, Meyers) and both are defencemen. Extra skaters like the 7th and 8th D are Canadian, as well as the 13th forward. To summarize:

US - 9 (5F , 2D , 2G)
Sweden - 4 (4F)
Russia - 2 (1F, 1D)
Canada - 2 (2D)
Czechia - 1 (1D)
Switzerland - 1 (1F)
Latvia - 1 (1F)

On top of that, their best prospects are 3 Swedes, a Russian, a Finn, and a Canadian. They traded a good prospect for Lindholm who was American. 

I think it is awesome the sport has grown. At some point there will be a superstar from outside Canada who could join Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid at the top of the all-time greats list.  After that top five there are some guys like Jagr to consider.  The Hughes brothers are all great. Quinn is putting up some numbers in the Orr/Coffey rarified air. Maybe it’s him!  

As much as I hate him, it's hard not to consider Ovechkin as an all-time great.  If you're talking D, then Lindstrom has to be there.  

Fair, but not top 5. I couldn’t even squeeze Messier in there. McDavid is just too awesome. 

Longevity is important.  If he retired tomorrow,  I don't think you could make McDavid top 5. So let's see how it all plays out. 

1ThoughtKnown

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

I was getting a little bored with International hockey, but it’s been long enough. That 4-Nations thing seems rather boring, but the Oldlympdix should be worth watching. 

See if Canada can three-peat with the best-on-best at the Oldlympdix. That win at Sochi was a yawner… there was no doubt. Vancouver 2010 was pretty entertaining… I seem to remember an OT winner…

The gap is closing, someday I hope Canada is like the Brazil or Germany of Football. Always in the top 5, but there are lots of countries who can complete. Switzerland and Germany have come a long way, and the US NDT program has helped elevate the talented players who come from the US.

Hell look at the Nucks roster… it’s full of US All-Stars. Hughes, Demko, Miller, Boeser. I think they only have two Canadians on the team when at full strength (Soucy, Meyers) and both are defencemen. Extra skaters like the 7th and 8th D are Canadian, as well as the 13th forward. To summarize:

US - 9 (5F , 2D , 2G)
Sweden - 4 (4F)
Russia - 2 (1F, 1D)
Canada - 2 (2D)
Czechia - 1 (1D)
Switzerland - 1 (1F)
Latvia - 1 (1F)

On top of that, their best prospects are 3 Swedes, a Russian, a Finn, and a Canadian. They traded a good prospect for Lindholm who was American. 

I think it is awesome the sport has grown. At some point there will be a superstar from outside Canada who could join Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid at the top of the all-time greats list.  After that top five there are some guys like Jagr to consider.  The Hughes brothers are all great. Quinn is putting up some numbers in the Orr/Coffey rarified air. Maybe it’s him!  

As much as I hate him, it's hard not to consider Ovechkin as an all-time great.  If you're talking D, then Lindstrom has to be there.  

Fair, but not top 5. I couldn’t even squeeze Messier in there. McDavid is just too awesome. 

Longevity is important.  If he retired tomorrow,  I don't think you could make McDavid top 5. So let's see how it all plays out. 

If you have ever seen the man play live, you know he’s top 5. He is a cheat code. He is in his ninth year, 5 Art Ross and 4 Hart trophy’s. 

Not his fault Oiler mgmt has been so gawd awful at supplying him with a capable team, particularly goaltending. 

I’ve never seen anything like him. 

mrussel1

1ThoughtKnown said:

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

I was getting a little bored with International hockey, but it’s been long enough. That 4-Nations thing seems rather boring, but the Oldlympdix should be worth watching. 

See if Canada can three-peat with the best-on-best at the Oldlympdix. That win at Sochi was a yawner… there was no doubt. Vancouver 2010 was pretty entertaining… I seem to remember an OT winner…

The gap is closing, someday I hope Canada is like the Brazil or Germany of Football. Always in the top 5, but there are lots of countries who can complete. Switzerland and Germany have come a long way, and the US NDT program has helped elevate the talented players who come from the US.

Hell look at the Nucks roster… it’s full of US All-Stars. Hughes, Demko, Miller, Boeser. I think they only have two Canadians on the team when at full strength (Soucy, Meyers) and both are defencemen. Extra skaters like the 7th and 8th D are Canadian, as well as the 13th forward. To summarize:

US - 9 (5F , 2D , 2G)
Sweden - 4 (4F)
Russia - 2 (1F, 1D)
Canada - 2 (2D)
Czechia - 1 (1D)
Switzerland - 1 (1F)
Latvia - 1 (1F)

On top of that, their best prospects are 3 Swedes, a Russian, a Finn, and a Canadian. They traded a good prospect for Lindholm who was American. 

I think it is awesome the sport has grown. At some point there will be a superstar from outside Canada who could join Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid at the top of the all-time greats list.  After that top five there are some guys like Jagr to consider.  The Hughes brothers are all great. Quinn is putting up some numbers in the Orr/Coffey rarified air. Maybe it’s him!  

As much as I hate him, it's hard not to consider Ovechkin as an all-time great.  If you're talking D, then Lindstrom has to be there.  

Fair, but not top 5. I couldn’t even squeeze Messier in there. McDavid is just too awesome. 

Longevity is important.  If he retired tomorrow,  I don't think you could make McDavid top 5. So let's see how it all plays out. 

If you have ever seen the man play live, you know he’s top 5. He is a cheat code. He is in his ninth year, 5 Art Ross and 4 Hart trophy’s. 

Not his fault Oiler mgmt has been so gawd awful at supplying him with a capable team, particularly goaltending. 

I’ve never seen anything like him. 

I agree he's a top five talent.  I have seen him play live and it's amazing.  But I still think you have to play the game and put up the numbers, and possibly win a Cup to be considered in the top five.  I'm not disparaging him, I'm just saying it's incomplete at this point.

Edit - I didn't realize it's already nine years.  But just as an example, you could easily argue that Mario was better than Wayne.  But the missed years are important.  It's not his fault he had a disease and back surgery.  I use a similar argument with Jordan vs Lebron.  In my mind, LBJ is the GOAT. 

Vitalogensia

I see what you're both saying.  McDavid is filthy.  His sudden speed and dancing around people is what amazes me.  At the same time, right or wrong, general consensus probably wouldn't add him to the top echelon unless he does more, or does what he does for longer.  I think it's bullshit sometimes how we judge the caliber of players in team sports by championships, but I feel like unless McDavid does that at least once in his lifetime there will be an argument if he belongs with the others.  If he wins every Ross and Hart for a years upon years, then of course.

International hockey-wise: I think it's great to see the sport grow.  Even though I know the lower levels are not rich with hockey talent, it's cool to know teams like Spain are getting better and promoting up the ranks.  The US is definitely going to be good at the Olympics, hopefully stellar. I remember watching that 2010 gold medal game in Pittsburgh with my family at a bar, place was rocking and then when Crosby scored...I mean it sucked, but it was still kinda okay since it was Sid.  But goddamn, closest I've been to seeing the US win gold in my lifetime.  

F Me In The Brain

I hate that McLellan had to be shitcanned, but he had to be fired.  Have to make a change.  Need the team to wake up as they are against the stupid cap and cannot make big changes.  Have the guys to be back in it, just need to pull theirs heads out of their asses

What a wild season from the great start

Oh, and the skills comps ok TV is boring.

Wobbie

F Me In The Brain said:

I hate that McLellan had to be shitcanned, but he had to be fired.  Have to make a change.  Need the team to wake up as they are against the stupid cap and cannot make big changes.  Have the guys to be back in it, just need to pull theirs heads out of their asses

What a wild season from the great start

Oh, and the skills comps ok TV is boring.

you’re the only guy who cares about the LA “kings”

1ThoughtKnown

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

I was getting a little bored with International hockey, but it’s been long enough. That 4-Nations thing seems rather boring, but the Oldlympdix should be worth watching. 

See if Canada can three-peat with the best-on-best at the Oldlympdix. That win at Sochi was a yawner… there was no doubt. Vancouver 2010 was pretty entertaining… I seem to remember an OT winner…

The gap is closing, someday I hope Canada is like the Brazil or Germany of Football. Always in the top 5, but there are lots of countries who can complete. Switzerland and Germany have come a long way, and the US NDT program has helped elevate the talented players who come from the US.

Hell look at the Nucks roster… it’s full of US All-Stars. Hughes, Demko, Miller, Boeser. I think they only have two Canadians on the team when at full strength (Soucy, Meyers) and both are defencemen. Extra skaters like the 7th and 8th D are Canadian, as well as the 13th forward. To summarize:

US - 9 (5F , 2D , 2G)
Sweden - 4 (4F)
Russia - 2 (1F, 1D)
Canada - 2 (2D)
Czechia - 1 (1D)
Switzerland - 1 (1F)
Latvia - 1 (1F)

On top of that, their best prospects are 3 Swedes, a Russian, a Finn, and a Canadian. They traded a good prospect for Lindholm who was American. 

I think it is awesome the sport has grown. At some point there will be a superstar from outside Canada who could join Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid at the top of the all-time greats list.  After that top five there are some guys like Jagr to consider.  The Hughes brothers are all great. Quinn is putting up some numbers in the Orr/Coffey rarified air. Maybe it’s him!  

As much as I hate him, it's hard not to consider Ovechkin as an all-time great.  If you're talking D, then Lindstrom has to be there.  

Fair, but not top 5. I couldn’t even squeeze Messier in there. McDavid is just too awesome. 

Longevity is important.  If he retired tomorrow,  I don't think you could make McDavid top 5. So let's see how it all plays out. 

If you have ever seen the man play live, you know he’s top 5. He is a cheat code. He is in his ninth year, 5 Art Ross and 4 Hart trophy’s. 

Not his fault Oiler mgmt has been so gawd awful at supplying him with a capable team, particularly goaltending. 

I’ve never seen anything like him. 

I agree he's a top five talent.  I have seen him play live and it's amazing.  But I still think you have to play the game and put up the numbers, and possibly win a Cup to be considered in the top five.  I'm not disparaging him, I'm just saying it's incomplete at this point.

Edit - I didn't realize it's already nine years.  But just as an example, you could easily argue that Mario was better than Wayne.  But the missed years are important.  It's not his fault he had a disease and back surgery.  I use a similar argument with Jordan vs Lebron.  In my mind, LBJ is the GOAT. 

I actually do think Lemieux was more talented than Gretzky.  Without lymphoma and back problems, Mario breaks all the records. Guy was ridiculous. 

1ThoughtKnown

F Me In The Brain said:

I hate that McLellan had to be shitcanned, but he had to be fired.  Have to make a change.  Need the team to wake up as they are against the stupid cap and cannot make big changes.  Have the guys to be back in it, just need to pull theirs heads out of their asses

What a wild season from the great start

Oh, and the skills comps ok TV is boring.

Rob Blake should have fired himself for the PLD trade. Kings got fleeced and I called it when it happened. Dubois is a bum and hurt the chemistry of the team. McLellan got more out of them than I thought he would. 

Look at the Jets after he and Wheeler are out of there. Add those Kings and they are a damn good team. If you have a cancer in the room, the tumour grows. 

1ThoughtKnown

Wobbie said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I hate that McLellan had to be shitcanned, but he had to be fired.  Have to make a change.  Need the team to wake up as they are against the stupid cap and cannot make big changes.  Have the guys to be back in it, just need to pull theirs heads out of their asses

What a wild season from the great start

Oh, and the skills comps ok TV is boring.

you’re the only guy who cares about the LA “kings”

I care about them, Nucks may play them in the first round! 😂

F Me In The Brain

Wobbie said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I hate that McLellan had to be shitcanned, but he had to be fired.  Have to make a change.  Need the team to wake up as they are against the stupid cap and cannot make big changes.  Have the guys to be back in it, just need to pull theirs heads out of their asses

What a wild season from the great start

Oh, and the skills comps ok TV is boring.

you’re the only guy who cares about the LA “kings”

No, there are other fans around....but even if I were the only person, who cares about that?

1Thought....yes, PLD trade looking awful.  Hoping he can find it again and pull out.  The team got caught looking in the mirror when the scoring was easy.....now they need to look in the mirror when their 1-3-1 is getting shredded,  and get back to playing a tough all around game, like they can.  This can be a really good team.  Getting Arrvy back soon would be a nice jolt.

F Me In The Brain

1ThoughtKnown said:

Wobbie said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I hate that McLellan had to be shitcanned, but he had to be fired.  Have to make a change.  Need the team to wake up as they are against the stupid cap and cannot make big changes.  Have the guys to be back in it, just need to pull theirs heads out of their asses

What a wild season from the great start

Oh, and the skills comps ok TV is boring.

you’re the only guy who cares about the LA “kings”

I care about them, Nucks may play them in the first round! 😂

Mmmmm, when was the last time Couver ranked 1 and Kings 8?  Was that 2012, when Kings raised their first cup?  What a fun season!  😁

1ThoughtKnown

F Me In The Brain said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

Wobbie said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I hate that McLellan had to be shitcanned, but he had to be fired.  Have to make a change.  Need the team to wake up as they are against the stupid cap and cannot make big changes.  Have the guys to be back in it, just need to pull theirs heads out of their asses

What a wild season from the great start

Oh, and the skills comps ok TV is boring.

you’re the only guy who cares about the LA “kings”

I care about them, Nucks may play them in the first round! 😂

Mmmmm, when was the last time Couver ranked 1 and Kings 8?  Was that 2012, when Kings raised their first cup?  What a fun season!  😁

That’s why I care. It’s an old rivalry and they are a good team.  Nucks have to hold off the Oilers and Knights to win the division first. For the conference there are those two and Colorado. 

West is wild in 2024

F Me In The Brain

1ThoughtKnown said:

F Me In The Brain said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

Wobbie said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I hate that McLellan had to be shitcanned, but he had to be fired.  Have to make a change.  Need the team to wake up as they are against the stupid cap and cannot make big changes.  Have the guys to be back in it, just need to pull theirs heads out of their asses

What a wild season from the great start

Oh, and the skills comps ok TV is boring.

you’re the only guy who cares about the LA “kings”

I care about them, Nucks may play them in the first round! 😂

Mmmmm, when was the last time Couver ranked 1 and Kings 8?  Was that 2012, when Kings raised their first cup?  What a fun season!  😁

That’s why I care. It’s an old rivalry and they are a good team.  Nucks have to hold off the Oilers and Knights to win the division first. For the conference there are those two and Colorado. 

West is wild in 2024

Yeah, there was a period there where it was a good rivalry.  Those damn Sedins ruined many a matchup

MayDay10

1ThoughtKnown said:

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

mrussel1 said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

I was getting a little bored with International hockey, but it’s been long enough. That 4-Nations thing seems rather boring, but the Oldlympdix should be worth watching. 

See if Canada can three-peat with the best-on-best at the Oldlympdix. That win at Sochi was a yawner… there was no doubt. Vancouver 2010 was pretty entertaining… I seem to remember an OT winner…

The gap is closing, someday I hope Canada is like the Brazil or Germany of Football. Always in the top 5, but there are lots of countries who can complete. Switzerland and Germany have come a long way, and the US NDT program has helped elevate the talented players who come from the US.

Hell look at the Nucks roster… it’s full of US All-Stars. Hughes, Demko, Miller, Boeser. I think they only have two Canadians on the team when at full strength (Soucy, Meyers) and both are defencemen. Extra skaters like the 7th and 8th D are Canadian, as well as the 13th forward. To summarize:

US - 9 (5F , 2D , 2G)
Sweden - 4 (4F)
Russia - 2 (1F, 1D)
Canada - 2 (2D)
Czechia - 1 (1D)
Switzerland - 1 (1F)
Latvia - 1 (1F)

On top of that, their best prospects are 3 Swedes, a Russian, a Finn, and a Canadian. They traded a good prospect for Lindholm who was American. 

I think it is awesome the sport has grown. At some point there will be a superstar from outside Canada who could join Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid at the top of the all-time greats list.  After that top five there are some guys like Jagr to consider.  The Hughes brothers are all great. Quinn is putting up some numbers in the Orr/Coffey rarified air. Maybe it’s him!  

As much as I hate him, it's hard not to consider Ovechkin as an all-time great.  If you're talking D, then Lindstrom has to be there.  

Fair, but not top 5. I couldn’t even squeeze Messier in there. McDavid is just too awesome. 

Longevity is important.  If he retired tomorrow,  I don't think you could make McDavid top 5. So let's see how it all plays out. 

If you have ever seen the man play live, you know he’s top 5. He is a cheat code. He is in his ninth year, 5 Art Ross and 4 Hart trophy’s. 

Not his fault Oiler mgmt has been so gawd awful at supplying him with a capable team, particularly goaltending. 

I’ve never seen anything like him. 

I agree he's a top five talent.  I have seen him play live and it's amazing.  But I still think you have to play the game and put up the numbers, and possibly win a Cup to be considered in the top five.  I'm not disparaging him, I'm just saying it's incomplete at this point.

Edit - I didn't realize it's already nine years.  But just as an example, you could easily argue that Mario was better than Wayne.  But the missed years are important.  It's not his fault he had a disease and back surgery.  I use a similar argument with Jordan vs Lebron.  In my mind, LBJ is the GOAT. 

I actually do think Lemieux was more talented than Gretzky.  Without lymphoma and back problems, Mario breaks all the records. Guy was ridiculous. 

Gretzky was slowed and stopped by back problems too from the middle of 1990- on.  His production noticeably dipped