doesnt sound like much is getting done other than both sides negotiating off their own proposals/visions.
Oh well. Ill live
Yeah, doesn't sound like much progress has been made with all of these meetings. If these talks break off with nothing agreed on, you can kiss this season goodbye.
If they aren't making real progress by the end of the weekend ... then I can see talks breaking off.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
OHL is great hockey ... i'm 5 minutes away from Windsor Spitfire games ... unfortunately they don't play a lot of Saturday night home games.
Completely adequate and in some ways more entertaining than the NHL.
the good news is the IceDogs are served very well by a lock out. Strome, Hamilton, and Richie (top 3 scorers) are likely gone once the lockout is over.
TSN has reported after 4 days of negotiations they are 380 million apart...weren't they like 500 million apart at the start of the week...and new issue has cropped of...how deal with a shortened season...maybe they should first get a deal done to start the season...then deal with a shortened season...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,389
so if they cancel a season for the 2nd time in 8 years, is the nhl still considered a major sports league in this country? i'd have to assume the sport will lose a large portion of it's fan base.
i don't follow hockey much at all and am not aware of the specific problems the sport has...i just find it absolutely baffling that this can happen so often.
so if they cancel a season for the 2nd time in 8 years, is the nhl still considered a major sports league in this country? i'd have to assume the sport will lose a large portion of it's fan base.
i don't follow hockey much at all and am not aware of the specific problems the sport has...i just find it absolutely baffling that this can happen so often.
I'm not so sure it's considered major now in the states...I live across the river from Detroit and the wings have made the playoffs 20 straight years and 4 championships in that time...but just from listening to Detroit sports radio the lions and tigers garner more attention in January and February than the wings do...just my impression. I would think in most US markets NFL, MLB, NBA, NCAAF and NCAAB definitely is more popular. So I would think their will be damage created by this. Fans in Canada will come back pretty easily for sure.
3rd work stoppage under the current commissioner. No sport dumps on its fans more than the NHL...just ridiculous...I've been to 1 game since the last lock out and only really watch playoff hockey.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
so if they cancel a season for the 2nd time in 8 years, is the nhl still considered a major sports league in this country? i'd have to assume the sport will lose a large portion of it's fan base.
i don't follow hockey much at all and am not aware of the specific problems the sport has...i just find it absolutely baffling that this can happen so often.
I'm not so sure it's considered major now in the states...I live across the river from Detroit and the wings have made the playoffs 20 straight years and 4 championships in that time...but just from listening to Detroit sports radio the lions and tigers garner more attention in January and February than the wings do...just my impression. I would think in most US markets NFL, MLB, NBA, NCAAF and NCAAB definitely is more popular. So I would think their will be damage created by this. Fans in Canada will come back pretty easily for sure.
3rd work stoppage under the current commissioner. No sport dumps on its fans more than the NHL...just ridiculous...I've been to 1 game since the last lock out and only really watch playoff hockey.
Yeah in most US markets I would say that NHL hockey is behind the leagues you listed. It's sad because it's a great sport. And yes, no one pisses on their fans worse than NHL hockey.
Another day of meetings with "no progress". What the fuck do they even talk about in these meetings??? They've met almost everyday this week and there has been minimal progress. I continue to laugh at this fucking debacle.
"Near the end of the meeting, Don [Fehr] said to Gary [Bettman]: 'Let me get this straight. Even if the players agree to every single component of the league's economic plan, we still don't have a deal unless we also agree to every one of your proposed changes to player contract rights?' "
To which, both of our sources reported, "Gary said: 'Yes.'"
Does anyone know what is going to happen with player's contracts if the season is cancelled? Meaning I understand the players won't get paid but does a year come off of their contracts?
Does anyone know what is going to happen with player's contracts if the season is cancelled? Meaning I understand the players won't get paid but does a year come off of their contracts?
i suspect it would be part of the new collective bargaining agreement if and when one is ratified ...
At least I might be saving my fantasy hockey league entry fee, and the full season Open Ice package fee. Other than that, I miss watching my Predators!!
Nashville-00
Nashville-03
Chicago-07
E.V. Milwaukee-08
Chicago 1 & 2-09
Alpine Valley 1 & 2-11
Wrigley-13
St. Paul-14
Milwaukee-14 Denver-22 St. Paul 1 & 2 - 23
got a little hockey fix last night. TSN was showing the 2002 Olympic Gold Medal game, was an awesome game and the good guys won
2005 - London
2009 - Toronto
2010 - Buffalo
2011 - Toronto 1&2
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014 - Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit
2016 - Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Ottawa, Toronto 1 2018 - Fenway 1&2 2022 - Hamilton, Toronto 2023 - Chicago 1&2
Does anyone know what is going to happen with player's contracts if the season is cancelled? Meaning I understand the players won't get paid but does a year come off of their contracts?
they all lose a year. This years pay and term are both gone.
Does anyone know what is going to happen with player's contracts if the season is cancelled? Meaning I understand the players won't get paid but does a year come off of their contracts?
they all lose a year. This years pay and term are both gone.
and I haven't read this thread, so maybe I'll get flamed for this, but it's all the player's fault.
I feel the players are at much more fault.
They fired Paul Kelly who was prepared to speak and negotiate with the NHL in good faith well before the deadline. It was conceivable there wouldnt be any stoppage and the league/NHLPA would forge a better partnership.
However, a small minority of the NHLPA, led by Eric Lindros was prominently responsible for undermining Paul Kelly late in the game and hiring the shrewd hard line negotiator with an ego Donald Fehr. Some of these guys feel they were "beaten" last time around and their egos cant take it. Once hired, there were no talks or movement because Fehr had to 'learn the ropes' of the sport, system, and parties involved. Fehr has done nothing to advance the bargaining IMO, and is doing the players a disservice. I think they will be giving up more with lost wages than they make up in the CBA negotiations (again).
The best play was to hit the NHL early and get what they can and forge a partnership. It would have been better for all 3 parties (NHL, NHLPA, and fans).
The NHL is much smaller scale then NFL, MLB, NBA. 2/3 of the teams lose money. The higher the players go, the longer we will see bankrupcies, teams for sale with Bettman travelling around trying (unsuccessfully) to talk people into buying teams, etc. If all or most of the teams make a profit, then people will want to invest in the league and the thing will be overall better and more profitable than ever. There arent enough "hockey markets" to just move Phoenix, Tampa, Dallas, Miami, etc, it also hurts the "US footprint". Contraction is also an option where nobody wins.
I was once against these southern markets, but Nashville has changed my opinion somewhat... (I do think we can lose Miami/Florida).
I think it very telling that any former player who speaks publicly, comes out against the players and strongly urges them to take the deal. Most recently was Mark Recchi.
The NHL owners arent innocents by any stretch though.
I don't give a shit if the players are the product. the owners own the business, and they dictate how much their staff get paid. and yes, make no mistake, the players are the employees.
players thinking they should get MORE than their bosses is absurd. unfortunately, the owners are somewhat at fault for letting it get to this point.
but the players are acting like spoiled little brats, and all the shithead Crosbys that are making millions are only hurting the lower level players that don't make enough to last them through the rest of their lives.
of course, if Bettman wasn't obsessed with trying to market an ice sport in the desert, maybe they'd all be making enough to satisfy everybody. But I doubt it. They'd just be squabbling over more money than they are now.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
No matter who's to blame, as fans we lose. I almost don't want to hear any more about talks on my Twitter feed, because it doesn't seem to matter. The problems don't seem to be getting fixed.
I feel especially bad for those that are financially dependent on the NHL season, like restaurants, pubs, etc.
I really wish I liked another sport. :(
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
i dont think a player will ever earn more than the owner, if this is the case somewhere please advise.
simplistically: as an employee, if i can quantify that by me being employed i directly bring $1M dollars of revenue to the business, whats wrong with me asking for $350k of it?
i dont think a player will ever earn more than the owner, if this is the case somewhere please advise.
simplistically: as an employee, if i can quantify that by me being employed i directly bring $1M dollars of revenue to the business, whats wrong with me asking for $350k of it?
as a group, that's what they wanted. 57% of profits. that's preposterous.
but how does one quantify how much money a player brings in? that's impossible. in Canada, 95% of the fans would go no matter who's on the ice. they just want to go see pro hockey. big stars add some icing, but all they want is cake.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
No matter who's to blame, as fans we lose. I almost don't want to hear any more about talks on my Twitter feed, because it doesn't seem to matter. The problems don't seem to be getting fixed.
I feel especially bad for those that are financially dependent on the NHL season, like restaurants, pubs, etc.
I really wish I liked another sport. :(
yeah, especially in Winnipeg. a bunch of new business popped up when we got the Jets back capitalizing on the surge of people downtown. A good friend of mine is a freelance photographer, and one of her biggest gigs last year was the Jets. So now she's suffering.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
i dont think a player will ever earn more than the owner, if this is the case somewhere please advise.
simplistically: as an employee, if i can quantify that by me being employed i directly bring $1M dollars of revenue to the business, whats wrong with me asking for $350k of it?
They were making about 75% of the revenue, then they fought and missed a season and the cap was put in place.
Now they get 57% (plus). Also remember the owners have to pay all the overhead such as employees, rent, heating, cooling, marketing, etc. 50% sounds like that can do it. As it is now, a lot of teams are submerged in the red every season, even teams that sell out the arena every game.
Its easy to say "well dont spend it". In that case, teams become irrelevant and people stop showing up. As a whole, that hurts the owners and the players (and fans outside of maybe 5-6 teams).
I don't give a shit if the players are the product. the owners own the business, and they dictate how much their staff get paid. and yes, make no mistake, the players are the employees.
players thinking they should get MORE than their bosses is absurd. unfortunately, the owners are somewhat at fault for letting it get to this point.
but the players are acting like spoiled little brats, and all the shithead Crosbys that are making millions are only hurting the lower level players that don't make enough to last them through the rest of their lives.
of course, if Bettman wasn't obsessed with trying to market an ice sport in the desert, maybe they'd all be making enough to satisfy everybody. But I doubt it. They'd just be squabbling over more money than they are now.
first off the owners do dictate what their staff get paid. They offer the contracts to the players. bettman screwed the NHL badly. their biggest mistake was the cap. All the cap did was make the rich teams even richer and made the poor teams poorer.
Why you ask? cause of the cap floor. teams that before the last lock out had a pay roll of 20 million have to pay 50 million.
the 2nd issue is that Bettman only needs 7 teams to pass anything he wants. do you really think the small market teams don't want to play right away? of course they do. Nashville is going broke in paying Weber signing bonuses when they have no money coming in.
Comments
If they aren't making real progress by the end of the weekend ... then I can see talks breaking off.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Completely adequate and in some ways more entertaining than the NHL.
the good news is the IceDogs are served very well by a lock out. Strome, Hamilton, and Richie (top 3 scorers) are likely gone once the lockout is over.
Fuck London
Nashville-03
Chicago-07
E.V. Milwaukee-08
Chicago 1 & 2-09
Alpine Valley 1 & 2-11
Wrigley-13
St. Paul-14
Milwaukee-14
Denver-22
St. Paul 1 & 2 - 23
Yeah...I believe this isn't happening this year. :fp:
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i don't follow hockey much at all and am not aware of the specific problems the sport has...i just find it absolutely baffling that this can happen so often.
I'm not so sure it's considered major now in the states...I live across the river from Detroit and the wings have made the playoffs 20 straight years and 4 championships in that time...but just from listening to Detroit sports radio the lions and tigers garner more attention in January and February than the wings do...just my impression. I would think in most US markets NFL, MLB, NBA, NCAAF and NCAAB definitely is more popular. So I would think their will be damage created by this. Fans in Canada will come back pretty easily for sure.
3rd work stoppage under the current commissioner. No sport dumps on its fans more than the NHL...just ridiculous...I've been to 1 game since the last lock out and only really watch playoff hockey.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Yeah in most US markets I would say that NHL hockey is behind the leagues you listed. It's sad because it's a great sport. And yes, no one pisses on their fans worse than NHL hockey.
"Near the end of the meeting, Don [Fehr] said to Gary [Bettman]: 'Let me get this straight. Even if the players agree to every single component of the league's economic plan, we still don't have a deal unless we also agree to every one of your proposed changes to player contract rights?' "
To which, both of our sources reported, "Gary said: 'Yes.'"
i suspect it would be part of the new collective bargaining agreement if and when one is ratified ...
Nashville-03
Chicago-07
E.V. Milwaukee-08
Chicago 1 & 2-09
Alpine Valley 1 & 2-11
Wrigley-13
St. Paul-14
Milwaukee-14
Denver-22
St. Paul 1 & 2 - 23
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86223 ... simulation
2009 - Toronto
2010 - Buffalo
2011 - Toronto 1&2
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014 - Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit
2016 - Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Ottawa, Toronto 1
2018 - Fenway 1&2
2022 - Hamilton, Toronto
2023 - Chicago 1&2
they all lose a year. This years pay and term are both gone.
Thanks.
and I haven't read this thread, so maybe I'll get flamed for this, but it's all the player's fault.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I completely agree with your first statement.
Both sides are at fault. A bunch of millionaires/billionaires acting like petulant children.
I feel the players are at much more fault.
They fired Paul Kelly who was prepared to speak and negotiate with the NHL in good faith well before the deadline. It was conceivable there wouldnt be any stoppage and the league/NHLPA would forge a better partnership.
However, a small minority of the NHLPA, led by Eric Lindros was prominently responsible for undermining Paul Kelly late in the game and hiring the shrewd hard line negotiator with an ego Donald Fehr. Some of these guys feel they were "beaten" last time around and their egos cant take it. Once hired, there were no talks or movement because Fehr had to 'learn the ropes' of the sport, system, and parties involved. Fehr has done nothing to advance the bargaining IMO, and is doing the players a disservice. I think they will be giving up more with lost wages than they make up in the CBA negotiations (again).
The best play was to hit the NHL early and get what they can and forge a partnership. It would have been better for all 3 parties (NHL, NHLPA, and fans).
The NHL is much smaller scale then NFL, MLB, NBA. 2/3 of the teams lose money. The higher the players go, the longer we will see bankrupcies, teams for sale with Bettman travelling around trying (unsuccessfully) to talk people into buying teams, etc. If all or most of the teams make a profit, then people will want to invest in the league and the thing will be overall better and more profitable than ever. There arent enough "hockey markets" to just move Phoenix, Tampa, Dallas, Miami, etc, it also hurts the "US footprint". Contraction is also an option where nobody wins.
I was once against these southern markets, but Nashville has changed my opinion somewhat... (I do think we can lose Miami/Florida).
I think it very telling that any former player who speaks publicly, comes out against the players and strongly urges them to take the deal. Most recently was Mark Recchi.
The NHL owners arent innocents by any stretch though.
players thinking they should get MORE than their bosses is absurd. unfortunately, the owners are somewhat at fault for letting it get to this point.
but the players are acting like spoiled little brats, and all the shithead Crosbys that are making millions are only hurting the lower level players that don't make enough to last them through the rest of their lives.
of course, if Bettman wasn't obsessed with trying to market an ice sport in the desert, maybe they'd all be making enough to satisfy everybody. But I doubt it. They'd just be squabbling over more money than they are now.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I feel especially bad for those that are financially dependent on the NHL season, like restaurants, pubs, etc.
I really wish I liked another sport. :(
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
simplistically: as an employee, if i can quantify that by me being employed i directly bring $1M dollars of revenue to the business, whats wrong with me asking for $350k of it?
as a group, that's what they wanted. 57% of profits. that's preposterous.
but how does one quantify how much money a player brings in? that's impossible. in Canada, 95% of the fans would go no matter who's on the ice. they just want to go see pro hockey. big stars add some icing, but all they want is cake.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
yeah, especially in Winnipeg. a bunch of new business popped up when we got the Jets back capitalizing on the surge of people downtown. A good friend of mine is a freelance photographer, and one of her biggest gigs last year was the Jets. So now she's suffering.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
They were making about 75% of the revenue, then they fought and missed a season and the cap was put in place.
Now they get 57% (plus). Also remember the owners have to pay all the overhead such as employees, rent, heating, cooling, marketing, etc. 50% sounds like that can do it. As it is now, a lot of teams are submerged in the red every season, even teams that sell out the arena every game.
Its easy to say "well dont spend it". In that case, teams become irrelevant and people stop showing up. As a whole, that hurts the owners and the players (and fans outside of maybe 5-6 teams).
first off the owners do dictate what their staff get paid. They offer the contracts to the players. bettman screwed the NHL badly. their biggest mistake was the cap. All the cap did was make the rich teams even richer and made the poor teams poorer.
Why you ask? cause of the cap floor. teams that before the last lock out had a pay roll of 20 million have to pay 50 million.
the 2nd issue is that Bettman only needs 7 teams to pass anything he wants. do you really think the small market teams don't want to play right away? of course they do. Nashville is going broke in paying Weber signing bonuses when they have no money coming in.