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2024 NHL Playoffs

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    lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    wow that's really bad for the fans of the Oilers. i hope bettman doesn't let the Oilers move to Seattle. if any team should move to Seattle, it's the coyotes.


    That guy that owns the team has more than enough money to build his stadium...I also think he is from Edmonton. Truthfully I think these wealthy business men who own sports franchises can put up their own $$$ for a stadium...I say let them move to Seattle and eventually be another Coyotes.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
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    polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    A James Mirtle article from this morning: http://bit.ly/OJP2vb

    ya ... the owners are trying to screw the players ...
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,640
    Im hoping that this at least starts some traction.

    Word is, the NHLPA are going to put a proposal on the table today. I dont think they can afford to make a rediculous offer at this point in time (if they care about public opinion). So it should be in the relative 'neighborhood' of the owners' proposal.

    I saw somewhere that it is rumored to start at 54-46, then 52-48, then 50/50. I think that is reasonable, and frankly, all these 'make them whole' issues and the fact that teams have 1 year to de-ob $70 million payrolls to $59 million, while players hidden in the minors suddenly count along with other tougher cap constraints... sounds like a mess.

    I guess then it would come down to NHL clarifying what they mean on HRR and if both sides can agree. Which is a huge issue, especially if the NHL was in fact trying to get crafty with this in their proposal.

    After that, the contract years, etc can all easily be negotiated and give/take.

    Thankfully, we should know by the weekend if the two sides will be serious about working towards a deal, or if we need to brace for another cancelled chunk of games.
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    polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    the thing is ... what are we basing fair on? ... the majority of owners are large corporations that shelter their profits and bring in losses from other businesses to cook the books ... all we know is the league has seen unprecedented revenue growth in the last few years and now they want all these concessions ... it's like every time the CBA expires, the players have to give ...
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    keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    lukin2006 wrote:
    wow that's really bad for the fans of the Oilers. i hope bettman doesn't let the Oilers move to Seattle. if any team should move to Seattle, it's the coyotes.


    That guy that owns the team has more than enough money to build his stadium...I also think he is from Edmonton. Truthfully I think these wealthy business men who own sports franchises can put up their own $$$ for a stadium...I say let them move to Seattle and eventually be another Coyotes.
    If Seattle embraces hockey the same way they did MLS soccer, they'll be wildly successful.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,640
    polaris_x wrote:
    the thing is ... what are we basing fair on? ... the majority of owners are large corporations that shelter their profits and bring in losses from other businesses to cook the books ... all we know is the league has seen unprecedented revenue growth in the last few years and now they want all these concessions ... it's like every time the CBA expires, the players have to give ...


    I dont know how accurate that is.
    The low price of the franchise, along with the difficulty the league often has in finding owners (they actually have to search for people who may be interested as opposed to the other way around), seems like an indicator that a lot of teams are as bad-off as advertised. The owners get 43% and have to pay for all the overhead. A lot of the unprecedented growth can be attributed to the surge of the Canadian Dollar. Most of the bulk of the revenue is made by just a small handful of teams.

    The other leagues are around 50% and some of them dont have the 100% guaranteed contracts that NHL players enjoy. Its probably going to end up 50-52%. its inevitible. That difference will be enough to drag maybe 10 teams into breaking-even territory, which will be huge, especially with revenue sharing jacked up a bit. I believe that will motivate more teams to spend to the cap, which is good for the players. Then its sink or swim in places like Phoenix, Columbus, Miami. If the owners want it to work there, then they need to finance that, not the players.
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    polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    MayDay10 wrote:
    I dont know how accurate that is.
    The low price of the franchise, along with the difficulty the league often has in finding owners (they actually have to search for people who may be interested as opposed to the other way around), seems like an indicator that a lot of teams are as bad-off as advertised. The owners get 43% and have to pay for all the overhead. A lot of the unprecedented growth can be attributed to the surge of the Canadian Dollar. Most of the bulk of the revenue is made by just a small handful of teams.

    The other leagues are around 50% and some of them dont have the 100% guaranteed contracts that NHL players enjoy. Its probably going to end up 50-52%. its inevitible. That difference will be enough to drag maybe 10 teams into breaking-even territory, which will be huge, especially with revenue sharing jacked up a bit. I believe that will motivate more teams to spend to the cap, which is good for the players. Then its sink or swim in places like Phoenix, Columbus, Miami. If the owners want it to work there, then they need to finance that, not the players.

    i dunno ... you could be right ... i am just very suspect as I honestly haven't heard much about the owners struggling in any way in this negotiation ... definitely in the last lockout but not this one ... and we know we are coming off a period of record revenues ... so, i just find it hard to believe when these rich ass owners cry poor ... it's the same people that want tax cuts and subsidies so they can shelter their money in the cayman islands ... sorry ... off on a tangent ... :lol::lol:
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    Bathgate66Bathgate66 Posts: 15,813
    so will we hear today or tonight?
    For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,640
    I would think that later in the afternoon we will hear that the NHLPA gave a proposal (hopefully).... then usually the details bleed out over the course of 3PM-7PM EST.
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    Bathgate66Bathgate66 Posts: 15,813
    MayDay10 wrote:
    I would think that later in the afternoon we will hear that the NHLPA gave a proposal (hopefully).... then usually the details bleed out over the course of 3PM-7PM EST.


    the waiting drove me mad

    :wave:
    For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
    That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
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    lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    lukin2006 wrote:
    wow that's really bad for the fans of the Oilers. i hope bettman doesn't let the Oilers move to Seattle. if any team should move to Seattle, it's the coyotes.


    That guy that owns the team has more than enough money to build his stadium...I also think he is from Edmonton. Truthfully I think these wealthy business men who own sports franchises can put up their own $$$ for a stadium...I say let them move to Seattle and eventually be another Coyotes.
    If Seattle embraces hockey the same way they did MLS soccer, they'll be wildly successful.


    How much is admission for MLS? probably a big difference between the NHL and MLS...if he wants to move the team let him...but these owners that move franchise's should automatically be left out of any revenue sharing permanently. This guy can afford to build his own arena...its just another example of corporate welfare...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,640
    lukin2006 wrote:

    How much is admission for MLS? probably a big difference between the NHL and MLS...quote]
    http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/0F004 ... fcsounders

    It looks like $34 to $111. Not shabby.

    Seattle is a good sports town IMO and would support a team well. Hockey fits in well with the Pacific NW culture. There is a lot of money in Seattle and very navicable. The new arena will be the 'in thing to do' and there should be a nice honeymoon period.

    With that said, I hope no NHL team moves there. I almost had my team move and even coming close sucked major dong. Worrying about the Bills moving also sucks and it is going to be crushing when it happens.
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,640
    apparently, players are in a conference call, and the meeting has been pushed back to 2:30 (EST).
    There is some sort of proposal coming from the NHLPA.
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    Bathgate66Bathgate66 Posts: 15,813
    MayDay10 wrote:
    apparently, players are in a conference call, and the meeting has been pushed back to 2:30 (EST).
    There is some sort of proposal coming from the NHLPA.


    fingers crossed

    :thumbup:
    For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
    That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
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    polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    MayDay10 wrote:
    apparently, players are in a conference call, and the meeting has been pushed back to 2:30 (EST).
    There is some sort of proposal coming from the NHLPA.

    i suspect it will be a scaled version of the revenue split to offset this "make whole" provision
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,640
    that was one report I saw.

    Another one from MacKenzie I think said he expects "fugly" to be trending later

    someone says it is closely based on the NHL proposal

    And someone else said its a bit different

    who know. We'll see.
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    lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    MayDay10 wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:

    How much is admission for MLS? probably a big difference between the NHL and MLS...quote]
    http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/0F004 ... fcsounders

    It looks like $34 to $111. Not shabby.

    Seattle is a good sports town IMO and would support a team well. Hockey fits in well with the Pacific NW culture. There is a lot of money in Seattle and very navicable. The new arena will be the 'in thing to do' and there should be a nice honeymoon period.

    With that said, I hope no NHL team moves there. I almost had my team move and even coming close sucked major dong. Worrying about the Bills moving also sucks and it is going to be crushing when it happens.

    I agree...I hope no team moves there...I also hope Edmonton keeps its team...but if the owner doesn't even show up at a council meeting to work with city council you have to wonder if he's already made up his mind.

    For once I'd love the NHL to stand up for the fans of a city and tell him he's not moving it...they have a shorter history than many teams but 5 cups in franchise history and I suspect more on the way with such a good young nucleus.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
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    Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    lukin2006 wrote:

    I agree...I hope no team moves there...I also hope Edmonton keeps its team...but if the owner doesn't even show up at a council meeting to work with city council you have to wonder if he's already made up his mind.

    For once I'd love the NHL to stand up for the fans of a city and tell him he's not moving it...they have a shorter history than many teams but 5 cups in franchise history and I suspect more on the way with such a good young nucleus.

    That's the 'personal reason' I have for not following the arena debate closely....I have a set of arena prints and specs sitting about 10 feet from me right now....this project could be a huge contract for the company I work for....but I agree - these arenas should be mostly, if not ALL private dollar ventures....the studies I read when it was first being discussed suggested that they do NOT make money, neither for the owner, nor the city - and that most of the numbers used to push these project are fudged. So I agree - corporate welfare. Not a popular opinion in Edmonton, esp in a company set to benefit from it....so I've kinda been avoiding the whole thing to keep from running my mouth about it at work.


    MayDay10 wrote:
    Thats not a bad read...

    But I dont think the NHL will allow the Oilers to move, even temporarily. They wont want bad press for at least a few years
    I dunno man...hopefully the board would be opposed...but I don't trust Bettman and his influence.... I can see him thinking cost/benefit....cost - a little bad PR, mostly in one small market, to be blamed on Edm's city council... benefit - a huge splash in a big new US market within a couple years of moving....He could then move a troubled team to Edmonton and everyone's 'happy'....except Oiler fans lose the amazing stable of young talent it has suffered thru years of suck to put together.
    Yes, Katz is from Edmonton...4th richest person in Canada. He is def ruining his public image in the city. Who knows if he cares about that tho....No one really saw it coming that the city will continue without him....that takes some of his power. There are also rumours that other local buyers are interested if he tries to sell....so if the city builds the building (avoiding being the scapegoat)....and, say, Bill Comrie (owner of the Brick furniture/electronics chain) steps up to buy....THEN the league faces a PR nightmare in moving the team....still, if it's mostly local, slightly national backlash (lets face it - not many Americans would care)...it might still be attractive to the NHL to move our stars to a big market.
    Probably not worth worrying about....most people seem to think it will get worked out eventually and the NHL won't let them move....but right now I'm pissed at Katz for trying to strongarm council.
    Fuckin billionaires crying for tax dollars and concessions from the players is really starting to annoy me. If it turns out the city builds the arena and the NHL won't let the team leave, I hope Katz gets charged up the ass for rent.
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,640
    the NHLPA provided 3 proposals to the NHL. Meeting is over.
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,640
    Bettman called the 3 proposals a step backward.
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    xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,150
    Until there's a game on the ice, this sport is dead to me and for the record I'm with the players in this.
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,640
    for the record I'm with the players in this.

    not me, really. NBA is 50/50, NFL virtually is. The players wont get near there.

    We will see how it shakes out, but Bettman claims salaries would have gone up in year 1.
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    lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    MayDay10 wrote:
    for the record I'm with the players in this.

    not me, really. NBA is 50/50, NFL virtually is. The players wont get near there.

    We will see how it shakes out, but Bettman claims salaries would have gone up in year 1.


    I'm with neither really...it's spoiled millionaires fighting billionaires and its the owners league. Now I would feel differently if the players offered to do away with guaranteed contracts...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
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    xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,150
    lukin2006 wrote:
    MayDay10 wrote:
    for the record I'm with the players in this.

    not me, really. NBA is 50/50, NFL virtually is. The players wont get near there.

    We will see how it shakes out, but Bettman claims salaries would have gone up in year 1.


    I'm with neither really...it's spoiled millionaires fighting billionaires and its the owners league. Now I would feel differently if the players offered to do away with guaranteed contracts...


    This situation is created by things like giving out 15-year contracts. It's laughable to hear the owner of the Wild pleading poverty and cost certainty when he does things like giving Zach Parise a 13-year deal.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
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    lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/hoc ... story.html


    Bettman 'disappointed' with NHLPA offer
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
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    polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    This situation is created by things like giving out 15-year contracts. It's laughable to hear the owner of the Wild pleading poverty and cost certainty when he does things like giving Zach Parise a 13-year deal.

    exactly ...

    the thing is - although the NHL deal says 50/50 ... it's not really 50/50 based on there other provisions such as the "make whole" clause ... they are saying it would actually drop that share ...

    if i was a player ... i would be like ... ok - so, we go 50/50 ... then what happens in 7 years ... we have to go 43/57? ... owners are always taking but offer nothing in return ...
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    lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    lukin2006 wrote:
    MayDay10 wrote:

    not me, really. NBA is 50/50, NFL virtually is. The players wont get near there.

    We will see how it shakes out, but Bettman claims salaries would have gone up in year 1.


    I'm with neither really...it's spoiled millionaires fighting billionaires and its the owners league. Now I would feel differently if the players offered to do away with guaranteed contracts...


    This situation is created by things like giving out 15-year contracts. It's laughable to hear the owner of the Wild pleading poverty and cost certainty when he does things like giving Zach Parise a 13-year deal.

    I agree...unfortunately it's the small owners that are the ones that need protection from the the big market teams. I will remain neutral ... mainly because I only really watch the playoffs anyways.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
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    lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    This situation is created by things like giving out 15-year contracts. It's laughable to hear the owner of the Wild pleading poverty and cost certainty when he does things like giving Zach Parise a 13-year deal.

    exactly ...

    the thing is - although the NHL deal says 50/50 ... it's not really 50/50 based on there other provisions such as the "make whole" clause ... they are saying it would actually drop that share ...

    if i was a player ... i would be like ... ok - so, we go 50/50 ... then what happens in 7 years ... we have to go 43/57? ... owners are always taking but offer nothing in return ...

    Nothing in return...really...the average NHL salary is like 2.4 million...how much money would these players be making without hockey?

    It'll be a cold day in hell before I ever have sympathy for these millionaires, same goes for these billionaire owners.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
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    polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Nothing in return...really...the average NHL salary is like 2.4 million...how much money would these players be making without hockey?

    It'll be a cold day in hell before I ever have sympathy for these millionaires, same goes for these billionaire owners.

    and how much money are the owners making? ... yeah ... it's a lot of money compared to what we make ... but these guys are responsible for the profits owners make ... plus ... if you're a guy like brett lindros who had concussions take them out of the game ... they are sacrificing their body for the game and they gotta earn what they can when they can ...

    at the end of the day - it isn't about feeling sorry for a guy who gets to make millions of dollar playing a game ... it's about what is fair ...
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    8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I'm with neither really...it's spoiled millionaires fighting billionaires and its the owners league. Now I would feel differently if the players offered to do away with guaranteed contracts...

    this
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
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