Andy Rooney. .

GirlLovesPJ

Andy Rooney... RIP [*]

cifrancgx

From the USA Today Article...

In 1994, he complained that Kurt Cobain's suicide at 27 got more attention that Richard Nixon's death. He said he had never heard of Cobain or his band Nirvana and that "a lot of people would like to have the years left that he threw away." A week later, he apologized on air, saying he should have taken Cobain's depression into account, and read critical comments from viewers.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/obi ... 51082094/1

Hugh Freaking Dillon

bootlegger10 wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

if you didn't go through with it, you HAVEN'T been where Kurt (or any other person who has done the same) was. So there is no place for judgement. By you or Andy Rooney or anyone else.

I doubt Andy Rooney was talking about people with serious medical/mental issues. I would assume he was talking more about the millions of grunge fans at the time who thought they had all of these "problems", when in fact it is just life.

I watch PJ20 and see band members who were going to concerts every night and jamming with their buddies or surfing during the day. The alternatives they had to music was to go back to school and get jobs. Doesn't sound like a bad life to me. Sounds like they controlled their own destiny, yet they were all "troubled"? I think that is what Andy Rooney was getting at.

the arts are filled with troubled souls. successful and not. and money/good job/etc does NOT equal happiness. everyone knows that.

I am a musician. I write music. It is NOT my living. Why? I would never ever want to be away from home, travelling from city to city for years on end. making the music is fun, jamming in a garage is fun, touring is NOT, except short ones when you are young.

no one except jason newsted wants to be on the road all their lives. it's not as glorious as you might think. why do you think all these guys turn to drugs and alcohol on the road? depression from being away from loved ones, extreme boredom, etc.

think of it as a travelling salesman. he loves his job, the interaction with people, but he doesn't get to see the sights of everywhere he goes. same with the travelling musician. every city is the same. no time to see it, so it's just a fucking hotel.

sounds like a pretty shitty life to me.

bootlegger10

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

the arts are filled with troubled souls. successful and not. and money/good job/etc does NOT equal happiness. everyone knows that.

I am a musician. I write music. It is NOT my living. Why? I would never ever want to be away from home, travelling from city to city for years on end. making the music is fun, jamming in a garage is fun, touring is NOT, except short ones when you are young.

no one except jason newsted wants to be on the road all their lives. it's not as glorious as you might think. why do you think all these guys turn to drugs and alcohol on the road? depression from being away from loved ones, extreme boredom, etc.

think of it as a travelling salesman. he loves his job, the interaction with people, but he doesn't get to see the sights of everywhere he goes. same with the travelling musician. every city is the same. no time to see it, so it's just a fucking hotel.

sounds like a pretty shitty life to me.

If Andy Rooney's comments were directed at Kurt Cobain and not the overall scene and its fans, than they were certainly unfair. It is not normal to find yourself in a situation where you are all of a sudden one of the most famous people in the world and it is understandable (and unfortunate) that someone could get depressed and do something horrible.


Artists have choices like everyone else. They don't have the market cornered on depression or rough lives.

DURP

PJ Fan est. 1990 wrote:

curmudgeoness wrote:

There is absolutely no excuse for mocking the dead

Well, ... there goes your argument. perhaps the guy 4 posts above should take your advice?

Nah i'll keep doin what i do

aliveguy324

not going to touch this one with a 10 foot pole

pandora

I think it was wrong of Andy to apologize but understand the pressure involved there to do so
and also not wanting to hurt the survivors anymore than they already had been.

I so understand those who are contemplating suicide...understand because I have been there.
Understand with all my heart. I know the desperation and the feeling of no way out
but by your own hand.

But I can never condone, understand yes.

I know depression, I was there, moments from leaving this world.
I know mental illness very well, having had much in my immediate family
and a few very close friends. I have lost many to suicide and addiction,
the slow purposeful death, in the cases of those I have known.

I know both sides of suicide.

By accepting illness as the reason for suicide helps it to continue daily.
It becomes the excuse to not have a choice.
And it may well be the cause but we still have a choice.
We have responsibility in our lives to our loved ones whether we want
or can acknowledge that.

We have mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, grandparents, spouses, children, dear friends.
By taking ones life we are destroying theirs, forever changing them
and how they will see themselves, the world and their lives.
They are devastated, feeling a forever loss. They will carry the quilt and pain for a lifetime.

None of us have the right to inflict that kind pain.
It is really not much different than the murderer who takes a life
and causes so much pain and loss, changing those left behind forever.

Perhaps this is the goal to hurt the ones who love us... I understand that also
but there are always innocents hurt at the same time.

If I am harsh I say this because I understand and want others to choose life
I want others to say suicide can never be an option. I want them to live.

My belief tells me one will not be able forgive themselves,
that they will know the pain they left behind.
The pain they think they have known here in this life
will be nothing compared to the pain they will know when they realize
what they have inflicted.

Beliefs aside though
my reason for sharing, please choose life, this is my hope.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

By accepting illness as the reason for suicide helps it to continue daily.
It becomes the excuse to not have a choice.

holy crap. absolutely 100% incorrect. By informing the public that it is NOT their fault and that it IS a result of a chemical imbalance, an illness just like any other physical ailment, it allows people to seek help without shame. it does NOT help it to continue daily, it brings it to the forefront of society as a real medical problem, not just "down in the dumps". that is a very irresponsible attitude towards it.

pandora wrote:

It is really not much different than the murderer who takes a life

what an abhorent thing to say.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

I think it was wrong of Andy to apologize

:shock: but not

pandora

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pandora wrote:

By accepting illness as the reason for suicide helps it to continue daily.
It becomes the excuse to not have a choice.

holy crap. absolutely 100% incorrect. By informing the public that it is NOT their fault and that it IS a result of a chemical imbalance, an illness just like any other physical ailment, it allows people to seek help without shame. it does NOT help it to continue daily, it brings it to the forefront of society as a real medical problem, not just "down in the dumps". that is a very irresponsible attitude towards it.

pandora wrote:

It is really not much different than the murderer who takes a life

what an abhorent thing to say.

Not so much abhorrent as very stern, what is abhorrent is taking one's own life.
Lets save a life and those who are about to have theirs destroyed because of loving
another.


The wake they leave behind by their action is the same as a murderer.
Something someone who is considering ending it all should be aware of before they do.

Yes of course people should seek help but often don't won't or can't
and that has nothing to do with shame,
if you understand mental illness as much as you say you do, you would know this.

So for those not seeking medical attention and comtemplating taking their own life
I say suicide is not an option never an option....
choose life.

Tboz51

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

his job was to pander to the older crowd watching 60 minutes, to give them a laugh and to make them feel like part of a larger group of understanding. it was a character that he had created. did he not believe the things he said? I'm sure he did. But I doubt he would have said the same thing about Kurt when he was younger. he just plain out didn't understand it. if it happened in his day, it wasn't talked about, that's for sure.

from ignorance comes mockery.

Very well put.

october22

I actually agreed with Rooney in the film. I don't think what he said was wrong at all.

I was a teenager at the time and thought the whole thing around Kurt's death was ridiculous. A lot of us did. I don't like the parody that ALL teens were depressed over Cobain's death. Most of the people I knew thought it was a stupid thing to do, especially if you have a child, and sure we felt bad for someone who believed they had no other choice but we didn't wallow in sadness.

Kurt was not this universally recognized hero like everyone makes him out to be. MOST people didn't give a shit. I was in high school at the time and that's the truth as it was in my school. I do remember the few kids that were upset about it and I thought they came off just as Rooney describes.

AND just because Eddie said in the film that "none of us would be in this room if it wasn't for Kurt", doesn't make it so. That was so annoying. I have a feeling even people in the band were annoyed by that (Jeff for sure, if you read the PJ20 book).

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

Yes of course people should seek help but often don't won't or can't
and that has nothing to do with shame,
if you understand mental illness as much as you say you do, you would know this.

I know and undestand as I suffer from it, quite severely actually (and have sought help), and have for several years. saying that not seeking help has nothing to do with shame shows complete and utter ignorance on the subject.

your projection of false stereotypes of mental illness needs to stop and stop NOW.

comparing those that commit suicide to those that commit murder is disgusting and irresponsible.

please don't speak that of which you obviously know very little about.

curmudgeoness

I see this thread will not go away....

I will not mock the dead. I feel uncomfortable speaking ill of the dead.

Having said that, I will repeat: I have not watched "60 Minutes" since that incident. I think we watch CBS if there is a good football game airing, but otherwise I do not watch that network. I think this world is full of so much hate and pettiness that I think it is a crying shame that someone actually was paid to go on the air and be hateful and petty (no, I do not listen to "shock jocks," either).

Andy Rooney reminded of my grandmother: self-righteous, mean-spirited, narrow-minded. I have no interest in spending time with such people in any format, and the Kurt Cobain rant simply was the last straw for me when it came to Andy Rooney. And, speaking as another person who has fought hard against depression, while I do feel that suicide is a cruel thing to inflict on those one leaves behind (that might be the only thing stopping me from doing something right now), I also think it is difficult for any of us to fathom what it is like inside someone else's head and what it is like to feel trapped inside one's skull. It's not always possible to find a way out.

As a woman of a certain age, I often find myself thinking -- when I am able to think of a future at all -- about the right way and the wrong way to grow old. I will stand by what I wrote before. I believe it is incumbent upon all of us to keep our minds open and to remember what it felt like to be at different stages in life. I believe it is a cop-out and, really, a backhanded slap to older people to assume that receiving one's AARP card means one gets to be a dick for the rest of one's life. We actually do not all grow cranky and mean as soon as we turn thirty-five, nor do we lose the ability to evolve in our beliefs and worldviews.

So, I will continue to admire the 70-something folks I see wearing big smiles and running shoes at local races. I will enjoy spending time with the 80- and 90-something ladies who like to rock out to Bob Dylan and the Beatles. And I will continue to take pains to ignore the nasty people, old or young, who never have anything nice to say about anyone. I'm quite comfortable with that decision.

pandora

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pandora wrote:

Yes of course people should seek help but often don't won't or can't
and that has nothing to do with shame,
if you understand mental illness as much as you say you do, you would know this.

I know and undestand as I suffer from it, quite severely actually (and have sought help), and have for several years. saying that not seeking help has nothing to do with shame shows complete and utter ignorance on the subject.

your projection of false stereotypes of mental illness needs to stop and stop NOW.

comparing those that commit suicide to those that commit murder is disgusting and irresponsible.

please don't speak that of which you obviously know very little about.

you are saying all who suffer are just like you :?

there are many reasons why people do not seek help... maybe different than you,
not all based in shame.

What one should be ashamed of is inflicting pain on others, there is no pain like
that of losing a loved one to suicide.

very preventable pain

what is irresponsible is saying you understand suicide and that it is ok
it is never ok

save a life prevent a suicide

and I know much about mental illness and am not portraying it in any way...
manic depression, paranoid schizophrenia, depression
all these I grew up with in very close family members, I myself, of course, depression.

I am saying it can not be an excuse to take your life
seek help not ruin the lives of all who love you.

JP33

Give the old creep a break.......He is an old man

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

you are saying all who suffer are just like you :?

I said nothing of the kind.

pandora wrote:

there are many reasons why people do not seek help... maybe different than you,
not all based in shame.

I never said they were ALL based in shame. give your head a shake. it's a HUGE reason why people don't seek help

pandora wrote:

what is irresponsible is saying you understand suicide and that it is ok

who the FUCK said it was ok? there you go again

pandora wrote:

it is never ok

in other words someone close to you did this, and you are still angry at them for being "so selfish". got it.

pandora wrote:

I am saying it can not be an excuse to take your life
seek help not ruin the lives of all who love you.

unfortunately, it's not all about you. it's about helping the person in need.

pandora

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

pandora wrote:

pandora wrote:

I am saying it can not be an excuse to take your life
seek help not ruin the lives of all who love you.

unfortunately, it's not all about you. it's about helping the person in need.

looks like we agree!

pandora

JP33 wrote:

Give the old creep a break.......He is an old man

I miss his segments, though I didn't agree every time. I like the little life things he pointed
out that I did agree with though... sometimes silly little things but struck a chord.

And getting into the senior range could see how he felt on some subjects.

Kat

Since the man has now passed away, we're going to change the thread title again to just his name. Thanks for making a reasonable discussion about things he said you disagreed with without being disrespectful because we wouldn't want anyone jumping down into the mud.