I think it is important for me to note that I am absolutely in tune with you and Polaris as following; I fervently believe in the sustainability and protection of the Earth from all misuse and exploitation. I think we simply are using different sources of information to develop our opinions.
i know we agreed to disagree on this but just wanted to know if you've read any of raj patel's work? ... he focuses more on economic injustices but food justice and security are at the forefront of his work ... i saw him at the brooklyn food conference a few years ago ... also, over the weekend ... i had lunch with a bunch of phd grads and a professor and the topic of food justice came up ... although google doesn't really search through scientific journals - the literature is definitely out there highlighting the problems with the industrialized food system ... and that the biggest myth is that we need to grow more food ...
I think it is important for me to note that I am absolutely in tune with you and Polaris as following; I fervently believe in the sustainability and protection of the Earth from all misuse and exploitation. I think we simply are using different sources of information to develop our opinions.
i know we agreed to disagree on this but just wanted to know if you've read any of raj patel's work? ... he focuses more on economic injustices but food justice and security are at the forefront of his work ... i saw him at the brooklyn food conference a few years ago ... also, over the weekend ... i had lunch with a bunch of phd grads and a professor and the topic of food justice came up ... although google doesn't really search through scientific journals - the literature is definitely out there highlighting the problems with the industrialized food system ... and that the biggest myth is that we need to grow more food ...
I will check out Raj Patel and I'm very interested in "food justice" or food sovereignty. I would very much like to know how he handles my concerns;
do we just take land away from people who've worked it for generations? How are people to be responsible for their own food source?
By just giving people food in starving countries we've seen that the effect has been to diminish any local food production because local farmers don't have any profit potential.
food is fairly cheap and that's because of industrialized agriculture and economies of scale. Sure, it has many shortcomings, but if food is to be grown in more agrarian/localvorian ways, it is going to be even more expensive and for many people that will be less food or at least a shift to less nutritious/cheaper foods.
We live in a capitalist world... like it or not that's the reality. Are farmers to be expected to just donate their crop? What about the agriculture industry... in many states it is the #1 industry (agriculture is much more than just farmer toiling in the dirt.)
but... I'm sure that being a scholar, Raj Patel will address them.
I absolutely agree that everyone should have the same access to affordable food, just like they should have access to affordable medical care... but there is a dichotomy here between that and individual liberty (responsibility) that I'm still trying to figure out. There has to be room for individual choice, and if not - even if done with good intentions - the policy become tyrannical.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
I will check out Raj Patel and I'm very interested in "food justice" or food sovereignty. I would very much like to know how he handles my concerns;
do we just take land away from people who've worked it for generations? How are people to be responsible for their own food source?
By just giving people food in starving countries we've seen that the effect has been to diminish any local food production because local farmers don't have any profit potential.
food is fairly cheap and that's because of industrialized agriculture and economies of scale. Sure, it has many shortcomings, but if food is to be grown in more agrarian/localvorian ways, it is going to be even more expensive and for many people that will be less food or at least a shift to less nutritious/cheaper foods.
We live in a capitalist world... like it or not that's the reality. Are farmers to be expected to just donate their crop? What about the agriculture industry... in many states it is the #1 industry (agriculture is much more than just farmer toiling in the dirt.)
but... I'm sure that being a scholar, Raj Patel will address them.
I absolutely agree that everyone should have the same access to affordable food, just like they should have access to affordable medical care... but there is a dichotomy here between that and individual liberty (responsibility) that I'm still trying to figure out. There has to be room for individual choice, and if not - even if done with good intentions - the policy become tyrannical.
we've already taken the farms from people who have done it for generations ... the farms are now owned by big corporations ... you are a re financier for farmers ... how many are operating with debt now? ... farmers can't keep seeds, they are forced to buy products and overfertilize because the soil's nutrients are being depleted ...
there is plenty of food in this world and it's not because of industrialized agriculture ... we have to look at the entire cycle ... not just yields ... the amount of fertilizer, the runoff, the use of water and fossil fuels, etc ... the industrialized food system nets negative for everyone except the corporations who control it ...
I wonder how long good ole Monsanto tested this out for. I stand by my first post that they do not test for long enough to know the what is going to happen, before they force their shit down farmers throats.
But on the upside, my Monsanto stock will go up with the new poison they'll come up with to get rid of the old poison. Round, round we go.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
i thought cell phone towers were a part of the bees?
hope i don't sound retarded.
anyways i have freeze dried lasagna so i'm good for like a week after shit hits the fan..then i eat you
last thing I read was that it was a dna virus. These things happen with all types of life. The bees will be fine, I think, but I'm no expert. I also think it is silly to automatically jump to some sort of pesticide or otherwise human created problem just because at first we didn't understand what was happening.
That is a human tendency and is what I'm trying to get across here... what we don't understand we tend to create some sort of paranormal cause, or a conspiracy theory, or somehow we're getting fucked by "something omnipotent" and/or "something fucking us over." That sometimes IS the case, but most times it is not.
pesticides killed off my parent's bees they kept
this was in the late 70's or early 80's
they all turned white and turned into this crusty dusty shit that used to fly around and make honey for us
i thought cell phone towers were a part of the bees?
hope i don't sound retarded.
anyways i have freeze dried lasagna so i'm good for like a week after shit hits the fan..then i eat you
last thing I read was that it was a dna virus. These things happen with all types of life. The bees will be fine, I think, but I'm no expert. I also think it is silly to automatically jump to some sort of pesticide or otherwise human created problem just because at first we didn't understand what was happening.
That is a human tendency and is what I'm trying to get across here... what we don't understand we tend to create some sort of paranormal cause, or a conspiracy theory, or somehow we're getting fucked by "something omnipotent" and/or "something fucking us over." That sometimes IS the case, but most times it is not.
pesticides killed off my parent's bees they kept
this was in the late 70's or early 80's
they all turned white and turned into this crusty dusty shit that used to fly around and make honey for us
I'm concerned about bees also, Chadwick. When I was a kid they used to be everwhere. I have seen a few more lately which is encouraging. I'm thinking the oregano we planted might be attracting them. I wonder if anyone else here has noticed which plants attract bees or have other information about bees that would be helpful?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Comments
i know we agreed to disagree on this but just wanted to know if you've read any of raj patel's work? ... he focuses more on economic injustices but food justice and security are at the forefront of his work ... i saw him at the brooklyn food conference a few years ago ... also, over the weekend ... i had lunch with a bunch of phd grads and a professor and the topic of food justice came up ... although google doesn't really search through scientific journals - the literature is definitely out there highlighting the problems with the industrialized food system ... and that the biggest myth is that we need to grow more food ...
I will check out Raj Patel and I'm very interested in "food justice" or food sovereignty. I would very much like to know how he handles my concerns;
do we just take land away from people who've worked it for generations? How are people to be responsible for their own food source?
By just giving people food in starving countries we've seen that the effect has been to diminish any local food production because local farmers don't have any profit potential.
food is fairly cheap and that's because of industrialized agriculture and economies of scale. Sure, it has many shortcomings, but if food is to be grown in more agrarian/localvorian ways, it is going to be even more expensive and for many people that will be less food or at least a shift to less nutritious/cheaper foods.
We live in a capitalist world... like it or not that's the reality. Are farmers to be expected to just donate their crop? What about the agriculture industry... in many states it is the #1 industry (agriculture is much more than just farmer toiling in the dirt.)
but... I'm sure that being a scholar, Raj Patel will address them.
I absolutely agree that everyone should have the same access to affordable food, just like they should have access to affordable medical care... but there is a dichotomy here between that and individual liberty (responsibility) that I'm still trying to figure out. There has to be room for individual choice, and if not - even if done with good intentions - the policy become tyrannical.
we've already taken the farms from people who have done it for generations ... the farms are now owned by big corporations ... you are a re financier for farmers ... how many are operating with debt now? ... farmers can't keep seeds, they are forced to buy products and overfertilize because the soil's nutrients are being depleted ...
there is plenty of food in this world and it's not because of industrialized agriculture ... we have to look at the entire cycle ... not just yields ... the amount of fertilizer, the runoff, the use of water and fossil fuels, etc ... the industrialized food system nets negative for everyone except the corporations who control it ...
I wonder how long good ole Monsanto tested this out for. I stand by my first post that they do not test for long enough to know the what is going to happen, before they force their shit down farmers throats.
But on the upside, my Monsanto stock will go up with the new poison they'll come up with to get rid of the old poison. Round, round we go.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
this was in the late 70's or early 80's
they all turned white and turned into this crusty dusty shit that used to fly around and make honey for us
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"