You need to make a separation between "America" (as in the good people of America) from the assholes that are in charge of the land mass that we call the United States. You are taking criticism of foreign interventionism by the military industrial complex as something personal. It isn't. It's not a dig on you and your family, your neighbors and friends, nor the people you don't even know. It is a very warranted criticism of people and corporations who revel at the very prospect at profitting off of war. War is a VERY profitable enterprise for lots of people - weapons are manufactured, armor, planes, tanks, food supplies, medical care, re-building the infrastructure of ENTIRE nations, oil pipelines, and competition for who gets to provide these types of services are MINIMALIZED, if competition exists at all. Imagine being able to have the opportunity to bid on guaranteed work with no viable competition bidding against you? That's what is called a "no-bid contract," and they are constantly abused. It's a cash cow, and it runs rampant overseas, away from the public eye during and after wars, and are a complete drain on the American citizenry. Because of all of this, do you not think it is not only possible, but likely that certain companies are more than anxious for our country to always maintain an overseas presence and always be at war? The best way to ramp up support for war is to falsely dress it up as patriotism. But just because it's wrapped in a flag, does that make it "American?" or patriotic? Not in my eyes. It's almost similar to how the KKK brandishes a cross for their symbol, but they are anything but truly "Christian."
Do some countries ask for our help? Sure. Do some of them have some serious issues with horrible dictators? Absolutely. But, as an American who is particularly proud of his country, you should understand that the United States has no business policing the world, and has no authority Constitutional or otherwise to do so.
Thanx Vinny,
Godfather.
:wave:
He is good isn't he, Godfather ? ...
I love you both!
What a bad ass ticket you guys would make :thumbup:
You need to make a separation between "America" (as in the good people of America) from the assholes that are in charge of the land mass that we call the United States. You are taking criticism of foreign interventionism by the military industrial complex as something personal. It isn't. It's not a dig on you and your family, your neighbors and friends, nor the people you don't even know. It is a very warranted criticism of people and corporations who revel at the very prospect at profitting off of war. War is a VERY profitable enterprise for lots of people - weapons are manufactured, armor, planes, tanks, food supplies, medical care, re-building the infrastructure of ENTIRE nations, oil pipelines, and competition for who gets to provide these types of services are MINIMALIZED, if competition exists at all. Imagine being able to have the opportunity to bid on guaranteed work with no viable competition bidding against you? That's what is called a "no-bid contract," and they are constantly abused. It's a cash cow, and it runs rampant overseas, away from the public eye during and after wars, and are a complete drain on the American citizenry. Because of all of this, do you not think it is not only possible, but likely that certain companies are more than anxious for our country to always maintain an overseas presence and always be at war? The best way to ramp up support for war is to falsely dress it up as patriotism. But just because it's wrapped in a flag, does that make it "American?" or patriotic? Not in my eyes. It's almost similar to how the KKK brandishes a cross for their symbol, but they are anything but truly "Christian."
Do some countries ask for our help? Sure. Do some of them have some serious issues with horrible dictators? Absolutely. But, as an American who is particularly proud of his country, you should understand that the United States has no business policing the world, and has no authority Constitutional or otherwise to do so.
Thanx Vinny,
Godfather.
:wave:
He is good isn't he, Godfather ? ...
I love you both!
What a bad ass ticket you guys would make :thumbup:
I'll try not to start a chicken-and-the-egg argument, as no time machine exists to change the past.
I accept that American policy had an impact on the initial terror attacks, whether warranted or not. I also accept that terror attacks have gone well beyond a fight against foreign policy and are now being used be terror groups to kill all that oppose their ideology.
If a majority of suicide attacks were isolated to Iraq and Afghanistan, I may be inclined to think otherwise. Or if country that has seen a high spike in violence had a lot of it associated with suicide attacks, such as Mexico, it may cause me to think otherwise.
i would just like to say that i in no way feel any attack is warranted ... all i'm trying to get across is ... everyone is so hell bent on fighting terrorism but no one seems to care why it exists ...
there is no chicken-egg argument here really ... there is no 9-11 if US foreign policy wasn't based on ecomomic imperialism ...
Imperialism, capitalism, whatever-ism ... I call it progress and if it isn't the U.S., it's gonna be someone else. Speaking of someone else, Binny Laden, who some forget, got his fortune much like the evil Dick Cheney ... through construction. His family is just as guilty for "exploiting" a region.
9/11 would not have occurred if a person who made his riches off of capitalism didn't have his mind poisoned by a hard-line religious ideology.
What a bad ass ticket you guys would make :thumbup:
yes he is very cool
and I love you too Pandi !
Godfather.
Thanks guys, you're both pretty fuckin cool in my eyes too .
I know where you're coming from, Godfather, because I used to feel the same way. Then I did some research and figured out that there's so much being done in the name of this country that neither I or most of the people I know would agree with. It makes sense-- no one can argue that there is serious corruption in government, that lobbyists are incredibly influential and even moreso than the people themselves, and no one can argue that the media itself has been completely complicit in all of this. I am very careful not to use the word "we" when explaining the actions of our government (who are completely bought and paid for). "We" implies that these jerk-offs speak for all of us. Are the American people responsible for constantly putting assholes into office? YES. Therein lies the problem. That is where WE have to be more dilligent-- by not getting duped over and over and over again by politicians who talk a good game.
Ron Paul never said that we are to blame for being attacked. He stated what he did because if the shoe were on the other foot we'd do the same.
Once again I ask, if China were to invade us and build a base in all 50 states, how would you react? Godfather you completely ignored every question that I asked you.
because your question is bated..but have you ever seen a movie called Red Dawn
Americans on the home front wouldn't let that happen and you know why ? WE HAVE GUN'S !!!
and the balls to use them if any country tried to invade us....all though I have a feeling most of the people on the train would lay down and die because the think they have it coming to them as Americans,talk about sheep :?
Godfather.
So its ok that iraqis attack american troops in iraq, right?
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
That's a pretty weak way to dismiss the message of the article - which in fact is spot on. It has very little to do with victims of 9-11 or any other attack, but instead attempts to discuss why people go about attacking. Learning helps prevention.
I have to think the only reason this stuff would be brought up and posted on this date is because
this forum is full of a bunch of...never mind..Byrnzie tried it to no takers on the 11th but today is the 13th so your thinking enough time has passed to sneak this shit in ? fuck Ron Paul and anybody else that has the balls to disrespect the memories of the people that died that day, you guys are always slinging this kind of bullshit every chance you fucking get and you even have the ball to do it on the week of 9/11...yes I'm a little pissed.
Godfather.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Imperialism, capitalism, whatever-ism ... I call it progress and if it isn't the U.S., it's gonna be someone else. Speaking of someone else, Binny Laden, who some forget, got his fortune much like the evil Dick Cheney ... through construction. His family is just as guilty for "exploiting" a region.
9/11 would not have occurred if a person who made his riches off of capitalism didn't have his mind poisoned by a hard-line religious ideology.
dude ... you guys were building bases on holy land ... for the same reasons why he fought the soviet invasion - he fought against the US invasion ... it wasn't enough to be exploiting the region using economic hitmen - there had to be permanent military bases too?
dude ... you guys were building bases on holy land ... for the same reasons why he fought the soviet invasion - he fought against the US invasion ... it wasn't enough to be exploiting the region using economic hitmen - there had to be permanent military bases too?
And because of his actions, they now have an occupying force in their holy land ... wait, what holy land??
If Taliban tactics didn't change somewhere in 2005, then I would be interested to see what caused the influx.
It also appears that most of the attacks are not on U.S. troops, but civilians. How are you compelling modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory when you blow up a hospital or mosque? Do the Pakistani people blame the U.S. when the Taliban shoot up a school bus with children on it as happened today? (http://news.yahoo.com/gunmen-attack-school-bus-pakistan-3-dead-090044650.html) Are the Sunni's and Shite's murdering each other to protest U.S. diplomacy?
Perhaps once the terror attacks were used for nationalism, but my opinion now links them to ideology.
They aren't really "terror" attacks if you commit them against armed forces. If you are an under-manned, under-armed, low-tech insurgent force then you don't have much chance to "terrorize" opposing high-tech, well-manned and heavily armed forces. You have to strike "terror" into civilian populations.
Another question...how do separate religious ideology and nationalism when the goal is a nation ruled by said religion?
I need you to clarify ... are you saying that striking terror into civilians is acceptable if you can't match forces with a military power or are you saying that in order for it to be a terror attack, it has to be unleashed upon civilians?
Depends on one's point of view....I'm not really feeling oppressed by a foreign power or a dictatorial government right now, so I not feeling the need to strike terror into anyone. If one is all about winning a conflict against an oppressor who has military advantage on his side, then terror is a handy tool to have in your kit. Is it right according to my code of ethics??? No...is it a harsh reality of "Total War"? Yes. It is, however, a double-edged sword that can work for you and against you.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
dude ... you guys were building bases on holy land ... for the same reasons why he fought the soviet invasion - he fought against the US invasion ... it wasn't enough to be exploiting the region using economic hitmen - there had to be permanent military bases too?
And because of his actions, they now have an occupying force in their holy land ... wait, what holy land??
dude was and always was a saudi ... he went to afghanistan to fight off the soviets ... al qaeda was born because of US imperialistic and military presence in saudi arabia ...
dude ... you guys were building bases on holy land ... for the same reasons why he fought the soviet invasion - he fought against the US invasion ... it wasn't enough to be exploiting the region using economic hitmen - there had to be permanent military bases too?
And because of his actions, they now have an occupying force in their holy land ... wait, what holy land??
dude was and always was a saudi ... he went to afghanistan to fight off the soviets ... al qaeda was born because of US imperialistic and military presence in saudi arabia ...
no US intervention in saudi arabia = no 9/11
i might get slammed here but i believe that bin ladden was not a good guy and we might have to say that we don't know why he did what he did. he might have been a sick fuck like many before him were.
but I will say that Americans are creating more bin ladden who may have never been violent before but now are pissed.
i might get slammed here but i believe that bin ladden was not a good guy and we might have to say that we don't know why he did what he did. he might have been a sick fuck like many before him were.
but I will say that Americans are creating more bin ladden who may have never been violent before but now are pissed.
have you read confessions of an economic hitman? ... read up on what the US involvement in saudi arabia is ... it is not surprising he became what he is ... you gotta remember ... he is a revolutionary to many ... similar to che quevara and malcolm x ... you don't create movements based on being a bad guy ...
i might get slammed here but i believe that bin ladden was not a good guy and we might have to say that we don't know why he did what he did. he might have been a sick fuck like many before him were.
but I will say that Americans are creating more bin ladden who may have never been violent before but now are pissed.
have you read confessions of an economic hitman? ... read up on what the US involvement in saudi arabia is ... it is not surprising he became what he is ... you gotta remember ... he is a revolutionary to many ... similar to che quevara and malcolm x ... you don't create movements based on being a bad guy ...
won't lie no i have not read economic hitman. and i disagree with what you said about creating a movement. Hitler was a bad guy who create a movement based on fear.
i don't question that he is seen as a revolutionary by many but i will say that there may have been a differences based on motive. osama motives MIGHT be different than his followers.
Someone posted this in another thread and I think it deserves to be posted here. I love the line... "Because that's what he fucking said"
no fucking kidding!! ...
it's like no one wants to believe it ...
so you believe that just because he said something he was telling the truth. if i was trying to create an army to follow me i might say things that i know people will fall in line for.
confession doesn't mean truth as we learned from the WM3
so you believe that just because he said something he was telling the truth. if i was trying to create an army to follow me i might say things that i know people will fall in line for.
confession doesn't mean truth as we learned from the WM3
this wasn't a coerced confession ... why do you think al qaeda was formed? ... why does someone born richer than you and i can remember devote his life to a cause? ...
dude ... you guys were building bases on holy land ... for the same reasons why he fought the soviet invasion - he fought against the US invasion ... it wasn't enough to be exploiting the region using economic hitmen - there had to be permanent military bases too?
And because of his actions, they now have an occupying force in their holy land ... wait, what holy land??
dude was and always was a saudi ... he went to afghanistan to fight off the soviets ... al qaeda was born because of US imperialistic and military presence in saudi arabia ...
no US intervention in saudi arabia = no 9/11
First off, we need to replace "intervention" with "invitation". The U.S. didn't set up a base on the northern border of Saudi Arabia for shits and giggles.
No U.S. invitation from Saudi Arabia for protection = Saddam Hussain in control of Kuwait and most likely Saudi Arabia.
or
No Iraqi invasion of Kuwait = No 9/11
Why does no one on the left ever go back that far in history? The path is always traced until it intersects with the U.S.A. and that is where it ends.
The US is the great infidel and the Saudi's chose the American military over Bin Laden's Mujaheddin to protect Kuwait and it burned his ass. That's right, the U.S. was invited. He was the great "holy warrior" and his offer was spurned by the Saudis. He then turned his fuck-up ideology and focused it on the mighty Satan, the U.S.A., up to the point until Navy Seals made an unplanned visit.
But let it be clear, the U.S. base that was built upon a pile of sand. It is not the "holy lands". Someone who is nuts may interpret that sand to be sacred, but that's what brain-washed people do. That is, unless oil reservoirs are considered holy and sacred.
Jason P- "Why does no one on the left ever go back that far in history? The path is always traced until it intersects with the U.S.A. and that is where it ends"...... love it.
I need you to clarify ... are you saying that striking terror into civilians is acceptable if you can't match forces with a military power or are you saying that in order for it to be a terror attack, it has to be unleashed upon civilians?
Depends on one's point of view....I'm not really feeling oppressed by a foreign power or a dictatorial government right now, so I not feeling the need to strike terror into anyone. If one is all about winning a conflict against an oppressor who has military advantage on his side, then terror is a handy tool to have in your kit. Is it right according to my code of ethics??? No...is it a harsh reality of "Total War"? Yes. It is, however, a double-edged sword that can work for you and against you.
Thank you, as your opinion validates my opinion: Suicide attacks are an accepted and effective tactic by Jihadist.
If the conflict was as simple as a fight for land, natural resources, etc, then I would be prone to think that terror attacks may end if all troops are pulled out. But in the minds of a Jihadist, this is a holy war, and to them, if you aint with us, you're against us and deserve to die.
It has moved passed just foreign occupation. It's a tactic being used against anyone and everyone, be it a fellow countryman, a neighboring country, or a foreign occupier. In the minds of those that carry out the attacks, a holy war isn't constrained by borders. And unfortunately, it's not going away ... especially when an ideology can convince a never-ending supply of educated people to go on suicide missions.
First off, we need to replace "intervention" with "invitation". The U.S. didn't set up a base on the northern border of Saudi Arabia for shits and giggles.
No U.S. invitation from Saudi Arabia for protection = Saddam Hussain in control of Kuwait and most likely Saudi Arabia.
or
No Iraqi invasion of Kuwait = No 9/11
Why does no one on the left ever go back that far in history? The path is always traced until it intersects with the U.S.A. and that is where it ends.
The US is the great infidel and the Saudi's chose the American military over Bin Laden's Mujaheddin to protect Kuwait and it burned his ass. That's right, the U.S. was invited. He was the great "holy warrior" and his offer was spurned by the Saudis. He then turned his fuck-up ideology and focused it on the mighty Satan, the U.S.A., up to the point until Navy Seals made an unplanned visit.
But let it be clear, the U.S. base that was built upon a pile of sand. It is not the "holy lands". Someone who is nuts may interpret that sand to be sacred, but that's what brain-washed people do. That is, unless oil reservoirs are considered holy and sacred.
i honestly don't know where to start ... if you think iraq would have invaded saudi arabia and that the US military bases in saudi arabia were for the protection of the saudis (where most of the attackers from 9/11 were from) ... i'm not sure what to say ...
so you believe that just because he said something he was telling the truth. if i was trying to create an army to follow me i might say things that i know people will fall in line for.
confession doesn't mean truth as we learned from the WM3
this wasn't a coerced confession ... why do you think al qaeda was formed? ... why does someone born richer than you and i can remember devote his life to a cause? ...
no that true it was not a coerced confession but the statement can be used as recruiting material. Osama was not a dumb guy, he understood the power of words and of the "us and them"
as for the rich question, i can't answer and in reality no one can
this wasn't a coerced confession ... why do you think al qaeda was formed? ... why does someone born richer than you and i can remember devote his life to a cause? ...
enuf with the left right thing ... it's not really a partisan issue to discuss history ... and in case you hadn't noticed ... this thread is based on a Ron Paul opinion ... and he is far from the left ...
US intervention in saudi arabia goes well back before iraq/kuwait war ... i suggest YOU go further back ...
no that true it was not a coerced confession but the statement can be used as recruiting material. Osama was not a dumb guy, he understood the power of words and of the "us and them"
as for the rich question, i can't answer and in reality no one can
so .. why do you not believe him when he says his motive!?? ... does he have a history of lying?
do you not believe that israel's oppression of the palestinians only happens because the US allows it? ...
so ... instead of taking his reasoning at face value ... you want to believe that it has to be something else?
no that true it was not a coerced confession but the statement can be used as recruiting material. Osama was not a dumb guy, he understood the power of words and of the "us and them"
as for the rich question, i can't answer and in reality no one can
so .. why do you not believe him when he says his motive!?? ... does he have a history of lying?
do you not believe that israel's oppression of the palestinians only happens because the US allows it? ...
so ... instead of taking his reasoning at face value ... you want to believe that it has to be something else?
the reason is that i see him using his motive to get followers. Osama for me is like a politician who will say what he needs to say to get followers. like you mentioned before the US has been intervening with the saudis for a very long time, why did osama not have a problem taking the weapons from the Americans when he was fighting the Russians?
as for the 2nd questions, don't know if that fits the topic. but i will say no i don't think its only because of US. Isreal i think would still be doing it just like many other countries who are doing it.
for the 3rd questions. i do believe that osama followers believe the reason but i have doubts if he does.
i honestly don't know where to start ... if you think iraq would have invaded saudi arabia and that the US military bases in saudi arabia were for the protection of the saudis (where most of the attackers from 9/11 were from) ... i'm not sure what to say ...
The whole thing was based on oil. From an Iraqi perspective. From a Saudi perspective. From a Kuwaiti perspective. And from a U.S. perspective. One group took it as a religious perspective, and now here we are.
Why do you see it only as a U.S. perspective and everyone else involved is innocent? Why do you trace every bad thing in the world back to the U.S. and never go after the other assholes in the world? I can admit the the second Iraq invasion was a bad decision but that doesn't mean that everything is black and white.
And why don't you think the Saudi kingdom didn't fear Iraq? Iraq had a madman dictator, the 4th largest army in the entire world with over a 1,000,000 soldiers, and no one in the region was capable of stopping them from taking over the oil reserves.
no that true it was not a coerced confession but the statement can be used as recruiting material. Osama was not a dumb guy, he understood the power of words and of the "us and them"
as for the rich question, i can't answer and in reality no one can
so .. why do you not believe him when he says his motive!?? ... does he have a history of lying?
do you not believe that israel's oppression of the palestinians only happens because the US allows it? ...
so ... instead of taking his reasoning at face value ... you want to believe that it has to be something else?
the reason is that i see him using his motive to get followers. Osama for me is like a politician who will say what he needs to say to get followers. like you mentioned before the US has been intervening with the saudis for a very long time, why did osama not have a problem taking the weapons from the Americans when he was fighting the Russians?
as for the 2nd questions, don't know if that fits the topic. but i will say no i don't think its only because of US. Isreal i think would still be doing it just like many other countries who are doing it.
for the 3rd questions. i do believe that osama followers believe the reason but i have doubts if he does.
i believe its called propaganda. you say what needs to be said to further your cause. whether you believe it or not is iirrelevant.
how different the israel/palestinian dynamic would be if the US had unconditionally supported the palestinian people like they do israel..
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
He is good isn't he, Godfather ? ...
I love you both!
What a bad ass ticket you guys would make :thumbup:
yes he is very cool
and I love you too Pandi !
Godfather.
9/11 would not have occurred if a person who made his riches off of capitalism didn't have his mind poisoned by a hard-line religious ideology.
Thanks guys, you're both pretty fuckin cool in my eyes too
I know where you're coming from, Godfather, because I used to feel the same way. Then I did some research and figured out that there's so much being done in the name of this country that neither I or most of the people I know would agree with. It makes sense-- no one can argue that there is serious corruption in government, that lobbyists are incredibly influential and even moreso than the people themselves, and no one can argue that the media itself has been completely complicit in all of this. I am very careful not to use the word "we" when explaining the actions of our government (who are completely bought and paid for). "We" implies that these jerk-offs speak for all of us. Are the American people responsible for constantly putting assholes into office? YES. Therein lies the problem. That is where WE have to be more dilligent-- by not getting duped over and over and over again by politicians who talk a good game.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
dude ... you guys were building bases on holy land ... for the same reasons why he fought the soviet invasion - he fought against the US invasion ... it wasn't enough to be exploiting the region using economic hitmen - there had to be permanent military bases too?
dude was and always was a saudi ... he went to afghanistan to fight off the soviets ... al qaeda was born because of US imperialistic and military presence in saudi arabia ...
no US intervention in saudi arabia = no 9/11
i might get slammed here but i believe that bin ladden was not a good guy and we might have to say that we don't know why he did what he did. he might have been a sick fuck like many before him were.
but I will say that Americans are creating more bin ladden who may have never been violent before but now are pissed.
Someone posted this in another thread and I think it deserves to be posted here. I love the line... "Because that's what he fucking said"
have you read confessions of an economic hitman? ... read up on what the US involvement in saudi arabia is ... it is not surprising he became what he is ... you gotta remember ... he is a revolutionary to many ... similar to che quevara and malcolm x ... you don't create movements based on being a bad guy ...
no fucking kidding!! ...
it's like no one wants to believe it ...
won't lie no i have not read economic hitman. and i disagree with what you said about creating a movement. Hitler was a bad guy who create a movement based on fear.
i don't question that he is seen as a revolutionary by many but i will say that there may have been a differences based on motive. osama motives MIGHT be different than his followers.
so you believe that just because he said something he was telling the truth. if i was trying to create an army to follow me i might say things that i know people will fall in line for.
confession doesn't mean truth as we learned from the WM3
this wasn't a coerced confession ... why do you think al qaeda was formed? ... why does someone born richer than you and i can remember devote his life to a cause? ...
No U.S. invitation from Saudi Arabia for protection = Saddam Hussain in control of Kuwait and most likely Saudi Arabia.
or
No Iraqi invasion of Kuwait = No 9/11
Why does no one on the left ever go back that far in history? The path is always traced until it intersects with the U.S.A. and that is where it ends.
The US is the great infidel and the Saudi's chose the American military over Bin Laden's Mujaheddin to protect Kuwait and it burned his ass. That's right, the U.S. was invited. He was the great "holy warrior" and his offer was spurned by the Saudis. He then turned his fuck-up ideology and focused it on the mighty Satan, the U.S.A., up to the point until Navy Seals made an unplanned visit.
But let it be clear, the U.S. base that was built upon a pile of sand. It is not the "holy lands". Someone who is nuts may interpret that sand to be sacred, but that's what brain-washed people do. That is, unless oil reservoirs are considered holy and sacred.
Godfather.
If the conflict was as simple as a fight for land, natural resources, etc, then I would be prone to think that terror attacks may end if all troops are pulled out. But in the minds of a Jihadist, this is a holy war, and to them, if you aint with us, you're against us and deserve to die.
It has moved passed just foreign occupation. It's a tactic being used against anyone and everyone, be it a fellow countryman, a neighboring country, or a foreign occupier. In the minds of those that carry out the attacks, a holy war isn't constrained by borders. And unfortunately, it's not going away ... especially when an ideology can convince a never-ending supply of educated people to go on suicide missions.
i honestly don't know where to start ... if you think iraq would have invaded saudi arabia and that the US military bases in saudi arabia were for the protection of the saudis (where most of the attackers from 9/11 were from) ... i'm not sure what to say ...
no that true it was not a coerced confession but the statement can be used as recruiting material. Osama was not a dumb guy, he understood the power of words and of the "us and them"
as for the rich question, i can't answer and in reality no one can
A: She was brain washed.
Q: Why die Osama Bin Ladin start a holy war?
A: He was brain washed.
US intervention in saudi arabia goes well back before iraq/kuwait war ... i suggest YOU go further back ...
so .. why do you not believe him when he says his motive!?? ... does he have a history of lying?
do you not believe that israel's oppression of the palestinians only happens because the US allows it? ...
so ... instead of taking his reasoning at face value ... you want to believe that it has to be something else?
who was osama brainwashed by? ... who kidnapped him and made him hate the US? ...
i'll ask you this too - if you don't want to believe his reasons ... then what are they?
take any terrorist/revolutionary group out there ... at the root of it all is some form of oppression ...
the reason is that i see him using his motive to get followers. Osama for me is like a politician who will say what he needs to say to get followers. like you mentioned before the US has been intervening with the saudis for a very long time, why did osama not have a problem taking the weapons from the Americans when he was fighting the Russians?
as for the 2nd questions, don't know if that fits the topic. but i will say no i don't think its only because of US. Isreal i think would still be doing it just like many other countries who are doing it.
for the 3rd questions. i do believe that osama followers believe the reason but i have doubts if he does.
Why do you see it only as a U.S. perspective and everyone else involved is innocent? Why do you trace every bad thing in the world back to the U.S. and never go after the other assholes in the world? I can admit the the second Iraq invasion was a bad decision but that doesn't mean that everything is black and white.
And why don't you think the Saudi kingdom didn't fear Iraq? Iraq had a madman dictator, the 4th largest army in the entire world with over a 1,000,000 soldiers, and no one in the region was capable of stopping them from taking over the oil reserves.
The U.S government is about to use it's power of automatic veto at the U.N once again to protect Israel's ongoing race war and occupation.
So you can now expect more terrorist attacks aimed at U.S targets across the World.
i believe its called propaganda. you say what needs to be said to further your cause. whether you believe it or not is iirrelevant.
how different the israel/palestinian dynamic would be if the US had unconditionally supported the palestinian people like they do israel..
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say