Would PJ denounce Obama and Socialism?
fear4freedom
Posts: 920
Is it possible? Pearl Jam has completely utilized and benefitted from Capitalism! Would they ever say anything positive or good about Capitalism? Would they denounce Socialism at that time? How can Pearl Jam be for a bigger Federal Govt.? If not, how can they vote for it? This new admin. is killing this country and our kindred spirit! Its ok to vote for it once.....but twice.....?? My message to the band....remember....1/2 of your fan base is against the liberal Democratic party and its big govt. agendas! So with that being said......Eddie....stick to your music and if not.....promote Capitalism!
Theres no time like the present
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
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I would say just enjoy the music and don't let someone elses political views sway your musical taste or enjoyment.
Godfather.
Obama, Socialist?!
I kinda doubt it.
I think Ed already expressed his opinion about this on VH1 Storytellers: "Fuck 'em."
(Anyone have a link to a clip of that handy?)
probably not. they would probably denounce having a voice silenced because they disagree. At least that would be my guess. You can be for capitalism and for more social responsibility. That may seem hard to believe, but it is possible.
And if Eddie wasn't so passionate about things, the music would more than likely suffer and we would end up with Kiss at live shows. So feel free to disagree, they would probably defend your right to do so
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I'm a bit confused by this statement.
This is a band that wouldn't capitalize on their huge fame by making videos to push on MTV, they instead toured relentlessly and got themselves out in front of their audience. They didn't have a perfume or a designer clothing line.
Instead of seeing fans ripped off for bad bootlegs, they make them available for cheap... They've been very successful at not sucking as much money form fans as they can... they could have released Vs and Vitalogy separately in collector boxes but decided that it wasn't worth it... combined them so the fans didn't have to shell out more money than they had to.
They rebelled against Ticketmaster. They've done a lot of charity songs and never went for the big pay days they could have gone for. So... how did they utilize capitalism? By making music that their audiences wanted to hear? That's just... being a musician.
I'm also a big baffled by this.
Where are you getting that number? Did you take some a poll?
The Democratic Party doesn't have a "big government" agenda. That's just a Fox News talking point. Factually, the government was much smaller under Clinton than it was under Bush.
Once upon a time they probably would denounce a CORPORATIST (merger of corporation and state, also known as economic fascism) and WAR-MONGERING president or government-- PJ around the year 2000 and before. Those guys had it right. It's in their lyrics (Grievance, and Whipping much earlier) and their political endorsements (Ralph Nader). At least socialism is well-intentioned and seemingly compassionate, except when it is implemented by government, because wealth has to be transferred by force, and is actually inherently a violent way to solve the problem of poverty and economic inequality. Voluntary socialism would be a much better system. At least they managed to rail against the wars deep into Bush's presidency, and maybe they had to compromise on their anti-corporatist philosophy to support a president that seemed LESS IN FAVOR of the wars, or at the very least, the lesser of two evils, John Kerry. It seemed Eddie strongly supported Obama's campaign, maybe again to vote for the lesser of two evils, aside for his strong enthusiasm for Obama, which he did not really seem to have for Kerry. Since Obama's election, Eddie has been nearly silent about the wars, and really hasn't been publicly critical about Obama. I imagine he will support Obama once again. As is evident on Backspacer, it could just be that the band has tried a positive vibe for a change, having a little hope and faith in who they may have genuinely thought would be a good leader to simply do the right things. We're still only 2.5 years into Barack's presidency, and maybe some good will come out of it. Personally, I don't believe that will be the case, but I also don't think that being completely negative about the whole deal will help much either. In this way and this way only do I think they are really being consistent with their past political beliefs-- but then again, maybe their political beliefs have changed? Maybe with regards to the wars they are starting to see a humanitarian aspect to them ("spreading democracy", "freeing the oppressed") under Obama, where under Bush they only saw the big business of the wars? Personally, I think there is nothing humanitarian about war, and it should only be waged in matters of self-defense ONLY.
Humanity should take a page from Pearl Jam's book-- their operation is a microcosm of how a progressive-minded free-market free-society SHOULD work. They are a group of people who took a tremendous risk by quitting their regular jobs to do something that they LOVE, who have honed their craft and have worked their asses off, have put forth the best quality product that they could produce, have made millions of people happy in doing it, have received no special favors / grants / subsidies from government-- only contributions from loyal fans, have hurt nobody or cheated nobody in the process, have made a comfortable living doing it, and have taken huge portions of their profits and voluntarily donated them to causes that they feel are important.
The reality is that they are living the libertarian ideal in a society that is largely constrained by economic, social, and political forces to the contrary. In some ways, I would think that their politics would follow this, and I believe they used to.
In other ways, it makes you wonder why would they be in favor of anything but the status quo? They've done really well for themselves under whatever you consider this current system to be. However, I do believe them to be very selfless as evidenced by their contributions to various charities.
But after all that hot air, I think Eddie still holds one belief very dear to his heart back from '91, Evenflow, "Never vote Republican." I could see him backing Nader again, but in all likelihood, he will back Obama in 2012. But if Ron Paul were to get the nomination of the Republican Party, and the guys really want the first ever true vote for PEACE in an American president, they should make an exception at least once. If any other Republican candidate gets the nomination they should definitely back a third party guy, but I think they'll likely give Barack a second chance.
I didn't see any open endorsement of the Republican party in this post, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you're going to vote Republican?
My opinion of Ed is that he has possibly seen that being an activist causes a lot of angst, which is great for lyric and music writing, but bad on the psyche. He's become a much more positive and understanding person with the lyrics from Backspacer and is in a more peaceful place. So standing up for what he believes in has possibly taken a back seat to being happy and believing in the goodness of people. A more peaceful and hands off approach.
I do think he'll never vote Republican though...
Thanks, Jean. Not gonna lie, that took me a half hour. Ha ha.
I remember that you really struggled with Eddie's lack of calling Obama out for the wars the way he would call out Bush back in '09 and '10. I was pretty pissed too, and thought it was hypocritical. I eventually started to look at it in a different light as I explained above. There seems to be a focus on positivity from the band, and I can't take exception to that, even though I am still personally very opposed to the wars and am vocal about it.
As far as just Obama goes, I would hope they would object to his recent weak stand in environment. Recent events related to that are flat out disturbing.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I was pissed, yeah! It didn't make sense at all at the time. But since my accident, it's become clear to me what's really important in my life, and politics took a serious nose dive. So I kinda think like you do, that the band is more focused on just being positive and staying publicly out of most controversial issues, yet I still have a big mouth when it comes to important issues I'm passionate about, too. I think Ed may be the same way, but the band as a whole, has dropped the activist label. Personally, I wish they had kept up with being Green like they were in the past.
The biggest thing about Obama that I oppose, is his expanding our wars. Wasn't that how the Dems got control of Congress back in 2006. Now look at where we are at. How many more innocent civilians need to die?
As for Dr. Paul, I'll be very interested to see where his campaign goes.
OH and yes Pearl Jam has utilized Capitalism on every front! You have to understand that everything PJ does is a product of the benefits of Capitalism! From the very beginning...to now....Capitalism needs to be understood and appreciated! Sean Penn and Hugo Chavez are not the way to go! Sorry!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
OH and yes Pearl Jam has utilized Capitalism on every front! You have to understand that everything PJ does is a product of the benefits of Capitalism! From the very beginning...to now....Capitalism needs to be understood and appreciated! Everything we do....is a product of it! Sean Penn and Hugo Chavez are not the way to go! Sorry!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I mean, up here we have a Conservative government, which is the most mainstream right-wing party in Canada, and its policies line up fairly neatly with the Democrats in many ways (though it's trending further right). We don't have any mainstream party as right as the Republicans, and we just elected a very left-leaning party (the NDP) as the official opposition.
You guys are, even with Obama, very, very, VERY far from socialism.
Didn't say they were successful at that one. But they at least tried.
you got a source for that?
Because I don't think that's true.
yeah i know... i still find it amusing though.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
We living in a very critical time in human history. We already live in a world that has been permanently changed by human-generated pollution and environmental degradation. Findings have shown that if we do not cap the CO2 concentrations in the air at 350PPM we will sell out our grandchildren's hopes of having a hospitable world in which to live (see 350.org as a starting place- there's a ton of info out there to confirm this).
Our best hope is that if re-elected, our president will see the dire predicament in which we find ourselves and begin to change the disasterous direction in which his environmental, (read: anti-environmental/pro-corporate) policies have turned.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Yes, Jeanwah. Here's a link that has some other good links embedded within it:
http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/paltm ... eside.html
and this from the superb 350.org
http://www.350.org/en/about/blogs/why-o ... -standards
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
they have a platform and they have earned that platform. anybody that has a platform and does not use it is doing the people a disservice. the guys are very genuine and have always worn their feelings and their thoughts on the issues on their sleeves for everyone to see. that passion is what endears them to millions of people. they have been a band now for 20 years and they have stayed true to who they are. they have played the game when they had to, but they still they have conviction and they still have their integrity. stone is not going to come out tomorrow and support michelle bachmann after all these years of raging against people like her. and to second what "_" said earlier, they don't care about those that disagree, and they shouldn't have to. we are not all going to 100% agree on anything, and you don't compromise your values to appeal to 50% of your audience.
i am closer to a socialist than obama ever will be, and to call him a socialist is an insult to socialists. i realize you are new here and you most likely did not see the thread, but weeks ago there was a poster on here who said they had "undeniable proof" that obama is a "kenyan marxist", and when asked for the proof he disappeared. i am still waiting for that proof, because it was probably the biggest load of bull i have ever read on this forum and i wanted to be proved wrong, ya know? i will never ever come out on here and talk about how great i think our capitalist system is, because i don't believe that it is that great.
i listened to aaron lewis of staind bash obama merciessly on the jason ellis show today and your posts sound surprisingly similar. are you aaron lewis?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
It really is interesting how American's view complex concepts. Marxism, socialism, even capitalism all seem to be viewed in generic terms as vague images instead of complex philosophical and economic systems. The terms become labels that are either blindly praised or turned to name calling. In the 50's and 60's it was "commie pinkos", now in the 10's it's "Kenyan Marxist president" and all the while capitalism has been seen as an unchallenged, nearly perfect system. Are any of these systems taught in school any more?
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Oh, man, you said it brother!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!