Iraq was a war of choice.
Afghanistan was thrust upon us.
Though the cost has been steep in both countries, and not worth it in at least one of them, I can't say I'm saddened that Saddam Hussein and OBL are no longer with us.
If you don't believe U.S. military in Afghanistan has not severely disrupted Al Qaeda's basic operations ... to the point that group appears incapable of pulling off another major attack ... I don't know what to tell you.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
True. and I remember hearing from some friends in construction (back in mid 2000s) that contractors could go to work in Iraq for 6 months and make 5-10 times more money because of the 'dangers'. The cost of war is outrageous, especially the rebuilding.
I could have went, but the pay increase wasn't worth the risk to me. My buddy working there sent pictures of his superintendent's pick-up truck ... it was littered with about 100 rounds from an AK-47. I was working in Seattle at the time ... picturesque mountains, water, and eco-hippies vs. 130 degree heat, suicide bombers, and a pay increase ... :think:
Well, I'm glad you chose to avoid that! I could see how it would be tempting..but just not worth it.
Iraq was a war of choice.
Afghanistan was thrust upon us.
Though the cost has been steep in both countries, and not worth it in at least one of them, I can't say I'm saddened that Saddam Hussein and OBL are no longer with us.
If you don't believe U.S. military in Afghanistan has not severely disrupted Al Qaeda's basic operations ... to the point that group appears incapable of pulling off another major attack ... I don't know what to tell you.
...
That is the nature of Al Qaeda... attacks spread out over time. They always have been incapable of a sustained attack. They plot... wait... attack... repeat, over long periods of time. Al Qaeda is still out there.. setting up shop in places like Pakistan and the horn of Africa.
What IS our military mission in Afghanistan? We are trying to nation build, using our military resources. Soldiers are trained to blow shit up, not build them.
And haven't most of the plots been stopped by intelligence work... i.e. good old fashioned police/detective type work from not only the U.S., but work done by other nation's?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
That is the nature of Al Qaeda... attacks spread out over time. They always have been incapable of a sustained attack. They plot... wait... attack... repeat, over long periods of time. Al Qaeda is still out there.. setting up shop in places like Pakistan and the horn of Africa.
What IS our military mission in Afghanistan? We are trying to nation build, using our military resources. Soldiers are trained to blow shit up, not build them.
And haven't most of the plots been stopped by intelligence work... i.e. good old fashioned police/detective type work from not only the U.S., but work done by other nation's?
You also have to remember that Afghanistan was in control of the Taliban (a government only recognized by three other countries at the time) and they were harboring Al Qaeda. The Taliban were given an ultimatum and dismissed it. The Taliban have been the target with Al Qaeda being a secondary target (although not on a global scale).
The goal has been to defeat the Taliban and install a functional, democratic government. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of fuckers that are intent to live in the stone ages and impose harsh law across the lands.
The goal has been to defeat the Taliban and install a functional, democratic government. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of fuckers that are intent to live in the stone ages and impose harsh law across the lands.
Well guess what???? If those fuckers want to live in the stone age and under harsh laws....it's their right to do so. Yes, the Taliban did give aid and support to what turned out to be our enemy, thus they deserved what they got.....but this "nation-building" is looking more and more like 21st century colonization
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
You also have to remember that Afghanistan was in control of the Taliban (a government only recognized by three other countries at the time) and they were harboring Al Qaeda. The Taliban were given an ultimatum and dismissed it. The Taliban have been the target with Al Qaeda being a secondary target (although not on a global scale).
The goal has been to defeat the Taliban and install a functional, democratic government. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of fuckers that are intent to live in the stone ages and impose harsh law across the lands.
...
I understand. I supported George W. Bush and the War in Afghanistan after the September 11th attacks.
Bush lost my support when he was hell bent on Iraq. I felt that we needed to remain focused on the Al Qaeda, Bin Laden and their Taliban hosts... and Hussein was already under tremendous constraints by crippling economic sanctions and no-fly zone enforcement.
By the time we go back to Afghanistan, 5 years later, it had pretty much deterioriated into a basket case, evolving iont a lost cause. It was extremely tough to bring Afghanistan around in 2002... nearly impossible in 2009. The Taliban was able to re-group, Al Qaeda moved its base operations to the horn of Africa and its operational command to Pakistan. In the meantime, we allowed (set-up) a corrupt government of our Northern Alliance (a.k.a. Afghani Opium Warlords) in Afghanistan. What does anyone suppose the people of Afghanistan think about that? How much better are U.S. paid and armed Opium Warlords than their Taliban predessors?
And speaking of Democracy... if the general population dislikes and distrusts us... who do you think they will vote into power?
If your answer is, "Someone who dislikes and distrusts us"... give yourself a gold star.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
why is it that everyone sees these missions as failures? ... you can extend that to domestic programs the gov't is in charge of ... why does no one consider that the results are exactly what is intended? ...
there were no surprises in afghanistan ... everything has played out as it should ... the decisions that have and will be made is to continue to keep this region unstable ... it has always been the goal ...
Well guess what???? If those fuckers want to live in the stone age and under harsh laws....it's their right to do so. Yes, the Taliban did give aid and support to what turned out to be our enemy, thus they deserved what they got.....but this "nation-building" is looking more and more like 21st century colonization
The entire world let the Taliban have the right to live in the stone age for five years after they took over Afghanistan via brutal force (supported by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia). Only three nations recognized their existence and everyone left them alone while they destroyed art artifacts and enacted strict Islamic rule. As long as they kept to themselves and were backed by their neighbors, they were out of sight and out of mind.
So in essence, the entire world "gave" them the right to run their country as they saw fit. And they harbored a group that trained and flew airplanes into skyscrapers, changing the way of life for the entire civilized world. And when we asked them to hand over those that were responsible, they told us to fuck off.
The Taliban are not a recognized government. They are a religious militia run by zealots that other zealots pumped resources into. And if it wasn't for Pakistan harboring their leaders, we would not be having this conversation. So no, they don't have the right.
yeah ... 3 nations ... pakistan, saudi arabia and UAE ... all allies of the US ... coincidence!?
the US supplies arms to all those countries ... and when they helped the taliban massacre people across the country - it was good for business ... no one cared about the taliban then ...
why is it that everyone sees these missions as failures? ... you can extend that to domestic programs the gov't is in charge of ... why does no one consider that the results are exactly what is intended? ...
there were no surprises in afghanistan ... everything has played out as it should ... the decisions that have and will be made is to continue to keep this region unstable ... it has always been the goal ...
...
The term, 'failure', is in the eye of the beholder. It is a great success to the Warlords who now sit in power.
I also feel that there was a window of opportunity that existed in 2002... but, poor (politically motivated) decision making squandered a (U.S./Western view) positive outcome.
Maybe if we put forth move of an effort to win the confidence of the masses, than their leaders... thing might have turned out better. As it is... to the Joe Reg'lur Afghani dude... it doesn't matter who kills his kid, Taliban fundamentalist or U.S. soldier... he is going to hate them and their leaders.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The term, 'failure', is in the eye of the beholder. It is a great success to the Warlords who now sit in power. I also feel that there was a window of opportunity that existed in 2002... but, poor (politically motivated) decision making squandered a (U.S./Western view) positive outcome.
Maybe if we put forth move of an effort to win the confidence of the masses, than their leaders... thing might have turned out better. As it is... to the Joe Reg'lur Afghani dude... it doesn't matter who kills his kid, Taliban fundamentalist or U.S. soldier... he is going to hate them and their leaders.
how do you come to the conclusion it was a poor decision!? ... why not come to the conclusion that afghanistan is where it was meant to be ... an unstable region requiring the expenditure of us dollars for the foreseeable future to companies like haliburton ...
how do you come to the conclusion it was a poor decision!? ... why not come to the conclusion that afghanistan is where it was meant to be ... an unstable region requiring the expenditure of us dollars for the foreseeable future to companies like haliburton ...
...
Because it was a poor decision from an America-centric point of view. Doesn't mean it is the right point of view... just a relative/subjective point of view.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
how do you come to the conclusion it was a poor decision!? ... why not come to the conclusion that afghanistan is where it was meant to be ... an unstable region requiring the expenditure of us dollars for the foreseeable future to companies like haliburton ...
...
Because it was a poor decision from an America-centric point of view. Doesn't mean it is the right point of view... just a relative/subjective point of view.
yeah ... 3 nations ... pakistan, saudi arabia and UAE ... all allies of the US ... coincidence!?
the US supplies arms to all those countries ... and when they helped the taliban massacre people across the country - it was good for business ... no one cared about the taliban then ...
Staying out of their affairs was good for political and business relationships. Strategically, Pakistan is an important ally due to their geography. UAE and the Saudi's are important allies because they control vast quantities of the most important energy source in the world. And yes, no one in the world cared about the Taliban prior to 9/11.
...
Sorry. Here is what I mean when I say an America-centric point of view and decisions made based upon that one-sided perspective:
"Being the centre of the global strategic game Afghanistan in strategic terms is just a stage and not an ultimate end of US strategic thrusts launched in the aftermath of 9/11. The US strategy seems to be to acquire air bases in Afghanistan which can enable to have strategic freedom of manoeuvre in any future contingency, rather than relying on Pakistan for air bases. Thus the emergence of Bagram and Kandahar as two Subic Bay replicas. This US strategic interest is in clash with the regional powers in neighbourhood of Afghanistan i. e China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan and even India in the long run.
Pakistan is only tip of the iceberg of opponents of US presence in Afghanistan. This scribe in a an article published in NATION in Pakistan had identified Afghanistan as USA's strategic opportunity. If USA had a debt of honour to vindicate or avenge Vietnam in Afghanistan , Russia has one to settle in Afghanistan. The Russians have become more subtle but no less ruthless. Half the journalists murdered in Russia since 1991 were murdered in President Putin's tenure from 2000 till 2006.
Being the historic highway of conquest Afghanistan provides USA with a Strategic heartland for future operations in geopolitical terms of Mackinder and Mahan. The next decade appears to be a decade of manoeuvre and getting into position by China, USA, Russia and even India. Pakistan, Iran and Central Asian Republics being junior players and tactical garbage collectors of USA, China and Russia. The USA will have multiple vulnerable areas to deal with starting from the very US so called homeland to a wide range of areas including Middle East, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. There may be temporary stability in some regions but peace will be an illusion. The USA, to date, is clueless about how to deal with Iran. By its Iraq faux pas it has already created a vast Shia bloc stretching from Iraq to Lebanon and has made Iran strategically stronger.
Pakistan may be less easier to tackle with presidential elections of 2007 approaching and the Pakistani military junta fearful of losing more credibility in the eyes of US populace by being perceived as a dog catcher for USA."
ref. http://www.chowk.com/Views/Politics/Afg ... c-Analysis
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The goal has been to defeat the Taliban and install a functional, democratic government. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of fuckers that are intent to live in the stone ages and impose harsh law across the lands.
Well guess what???? If those fuckers want to live in the stone age and under harsh laws....it's their right to do so.
Well, yeah. Until they start sending people to fly planes into buildings in downtown Manhattan. See how that works?
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
You also have to remember that Afghanistan was in control of the Taliban (a government only recognized by three other countries at the time) and they were harboring Al Qaeda. The Taliban were given an ultimatum and dismissed it. The Taliban have been the target with Al Qaeda being a secondary target (although not on a global scale).
The goal has been to defeat the Taliban and install a functional, democratic government. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of fuckers that are intent to live in the stone ages and impose harsh law across the lands.
...
I understand. I supported George W. Bush and the War in Afghanistan after the September 11th attacks.
Bush lost my support when he was hell bent on Iraq. I felt that we needed to remain focused on the Al Qaeda, Bin Laden and their Taliban hosts... and Hussein was already under tremendous constraints by crippling economic sanctions and no-fly zone enforcement.
I agree with this.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
The goal has been to defeat the Taliban and install a functional, democratic government. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of fuckers that are intent to live in the stone ages and impose harsh law across the lands.
Well guess what???? If those fuckers want to live in the stone age and under harsh laws....it's their right to do so.
Well, yeah. Until they start sending people to fly planes into buildings in downtown Manhattan. See how that works?
You send 19, we will send thousands, kill hundreds of thousands and bomb the shit out of you......for 9 years......
The goal has been to defeat the Taliban and install a functional, democratic government. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of fuckers that are intent to live in the stone ages and impose harsh law across the lands.
Well guess what???? If those fuckers want to live in the stone age and under harsh laws....it's their right to do so.
Well, yeah. Until they start sending people to fly planes into buildings in downtown Manhattan. See how that works?
If you followed the thread, you would notice that mentioned this....and stated that those involved got what they deserved. It was not the Taliban and their foreign allies that I meant to reference....the majority of Afghans seemingly want to remain as subsistence farmers or nomadic herders. I do not hear or read of an Afghan groundswell movement to enter the 21st century en masse, thus they have the right to remain trapped in that past style of living.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
US Hires Blackwater Subsidiary for Afghan Drug War
The Pentagon has announced that it is hiring US Training Center Inc. (USTC), a subsidiary of Blackwater International (which renamed itself Xe Services after being humiliated by multiple Iraq lawsuits), to a major contractor for “counter-narcoterrorism activities in Afghanistan.”
The deal to bring USTC to bear in the Afghan drug war comes despite probes by both the Defense and State Departments of misconduct by Blackwater officials within Afghanistan, including reports that they misled officials and misappropriated government weaponry.
The new contract would have them providing “intelligence analyst support and material procurement” for NATO in the ongoing Afghan drug war, with Blackwater CEO Ted Wright said underscored their ability to provide “all-source intelligence expertise.”
The company’s constant efforts to “rebrand” seem to be aimed primarily at hiding from the public scorn Blackwater earned in Iraq, but don’t appear to be necessary from administration perspectives, as the US continues to eagerly hire them for multi-million dollar deals.
Agree completely. Want to bring the spending down and attack the deficit? Bring each and every one of our soldiers home like its 1999 again.
I for one would like to know exactly what goal there is to accomplish that hasn't been accomplished yet. Because I think any goal that hasn't been accomplished by now is simply unattainable.
...
Sorry. Here is what I mean when I say an America-centric point of view and decisions made based upon that one-sided perspective:
"Being the centre of the global strategic game Afghanistan in strategic terms is just a stage and not an ultimate end of US strategic thrusts launched in the aftermath of 9/11. The US strategy seems to be to acquire air bases in Afghanistan which can enable to have strategic freedom of manoeuvre in any future contingency, rather than relying on Pakistan for air bases. Thus the emergence of Bagram and Kandahar as two Subic Bay replicas. This US strategic interest is in clash with the regional powers in neighbourhood of Afghanistan i. e China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan and even India in the long run.
Pakistan is only tip of the iceberg of opponents of US presence in Afghanistan. This scribe in a an article published in NATION in Pakistan had identified Afghanistan as USA's strategic opportunity. If USA had a debt of honour to vindicate or avenge Vietnam in Afghanistan , Russia has one to settle in Afghanistan. The Russians have become more subtle but no less ruthless. Half the journalists murdered in Russia since 1991 were murdered in President Putin's tenure from 2000 till 2006.
Being the historic highway of conquest Afghanistan provides USA with a Strategic heartland for future operations in geopolitical terms of Mackinder and Mahan. The next decade appears to be a decade of manoeuvre and getting into position by China, USA, Russia and even India. Pakistan, Iran and Central Asian Republics being junior players and tactical garbage collectors of USA, China and Russia. The USA will have multiple vulnerable areas to deal with starting from the very US so called homeland to a wide range of areas including Middle East, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. There may be temporary stability in some regions but peace will be an illusion. The USA, to date, is clueless about how to deal with Iran. By its Iraq faux pas it has already created a vast Shia bloc stretching from Iraq to Lebanon and has made Iran strategically stronger.
Pakistan may be less easier to tackle with presidential elections of 2007 approaching and the Pakistani military junta fearful of losing more credibility in the eyes of US populace by being perceived as a dog catcher for USA."
ref. http://www.chowk.com/Views/Politics/Afg ... c-Analysis
oh ... yeah ... i agree ... but i've been contending also that the current situations in both those countries are exactly the way they want it ... it's in response to people saying they made poor decisions or this, that or the other ...
the reality is that most people assumed the goal was to free the people from an authoritative and oppressive regime ... install full democracy and then leave ... but nothing absolutely nothing points to that ever being the goal ... a fully democratic state is not going to allow you to build permanent military bases there and allow you to dictate domestic policy ...
it's all about war profiteering and the imperialistic goals you mentioned ...
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
oh ... yeah ... i agree ... but i've been contending also that the current situations in both those countries are exactly the way they want it ... it's in response to people saying they made poor decisions or this, that or the other...
the reality is that most people assumed the goal was to free the people from an authoritative and oppressive regime ... install full democracy and then leave ... but nothing absolutely nothing points to that ever being the goal ... a fully democratic state is not going to allow you to build permanent military bases there and allow you to dictate domestic policy ...
it's all about war profiteering and the imperialistic goals you mentioned ...
...
I was looking more at the military point of view, too... forward base of operations in the strategic oil region to fend off a China or Russia in case there is some heavy shit going down in the future. War Machines need fuel. The first grab will be for the oil. Tanks and Jets are useless if they cannot run.
The best environment for those strategic bases, would be one that is somewhat stable... with 'stable' meaning setting up their governments to our liking.
I knew all of that 'Spreading Democracy' was bullshit to pacify an illiterate citizenry. The only people who bought into that democracy crap were the ones on the backside of the Bell curve.
We were and are loooking at a long term deployment over there... making enemies in the meantime with those ungrateful bastards living above OUR oil.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
oh ... yeah ... i agree ... but i've been contending also that the current situations in both those countries are exactly the way they want it ... it's in response to people saying they made poor decisions or this, that or the other...
the reality is that most people assumed the goal was to free the people from an authoritative and oppressive regime ... install full democracy and then leave ... but nothing absolutely nothing points to that ever being the goal ... a fully democratic state is not going to allow you to build permanent military bases there and allow you to dictate domestic policy ...
it's all about war profiteering and the imperialistic goals you mentioned ...
...
I was looking more at the military point of view, too... forward base of operations in the strategic oil region to fend off a China or Russia in case there is some heavy shit going down in the future. War Machines need fuel. The first grab will be for the oil. Tanks and Jets are useless if they cannot run.
The best environment for those strategic bases, would be one that is somewhat stable... with 'stable' meaning setting up their governments to our liking.
I knew all of that 'Spreading Democracy' was bullshit to pacify an illiterate citizenry. The only people who bought into that democracy crap were the ones on the backside of the Bell curve.
We were and are loooking at a long term deployment over there... making enemies in the meantime with those ungrateful bastards living above OUR oil.
Simply thinking like an empire.....100 years ago it was secure the coal and build coaling stations while building external markets for your empire's goods....the more things change, the more they stay the same.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Comments
Afghanistan was thrust upon us.
Though the cost has been steep in both countries, and not worth it in at least one of them, I can't say I'm saddened that Saddam Hussein and OBL are no longer with us.
If you don't believe U.S. military in Afghanistan has not severely disrupted Al Qaeda's basic operations ... to the point that group appears incapable of pulling off another major attack ... I don't know what to tell you.
for the least they could possibly do
Well, I'm glad you chose to avoid that! I could see how it would be tempting..but just not worth it.
That is the nature of Al Qaeda... attacks spread out over time. They always have been incapable of a sustained attack. They plot... wait... attack... repeat, over long periods of time. Al Qaeda is still out there.. setting up shop in places like Pakistan and the horn of Africa.
What IS our military mission in Afghanistan? We are trying to nation build, using our military resources. Soldiers are trained to blow shit up, not build them.
And haven't most of the plots been stopped by intelligence work... i.e. good old fashioned police/detective type work from not only the U.S., but work done by other nation's?
Hail, Hail!!!
The goal has been to defeat the Taliban and install a functional, democratic government. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of fuckers that are intent to live in the stone ages and impose harsh law across the lands.
I understand. I supported George W. Bush and the War in Afghanistan after the September 11th attacks.
Bush lost my support when he was hell bent on Iraq. I felt that we needed to remain focused on the Al Qaeda, Bin Laden and their Taliban hosts... and Hussein was already under tremendous constraints by crippling economic sanctions and no-fly zone enforcement.
By the time we go back to Afghanistan, 5 years later, it had pretty much deterioriated into a basket case, evolving iont a lost cause. It was extremely tough to bring Afghanistan around in 2002... nearly impossible in 2009. The Taliban was able to re-group, Al Qaeda moved its base operations to the horn of Africa and its operational command to Pakistan. In the meantime, we allowed (set-up) a corrupt government of our Northern Alliance (a.k.a. Afghani Opium Warlords) in Afghanistan. What does anyone suppose the people of Afghanistan think about that? How much better are U.S. paid and armed Opium Warlords than their Taliban predessors?
And speaking of Democracy... if the general population dislikes and distrusts us... who do you think they will vote into power?
If your answer is, "Someone who dislikes and distrusts us"... give yourself a gold star.
Hail, Hail!!!
there were no surprises in afghanistan ... everything has played out as it should ... the decisions that have and will be made is to continue to keep this region unstable ... it has always been the goal ...
So in essence, the entire world "gave" them the right to run their country as they saw fit. And they harbored a group that trained and flew airplanes into skyscrapers, changing the way of life for the entire civilized world. And when we asked them to hand over those that were responsible, they told us to fuck off.
The Taliban are not a recognized government. They are a religious militia run by zealots that other zealots pumped resources into. And if it wasn't for Pakistan harboring their leaders, we would not be having this conversation. So no, they don't have the right.
the US supplies arms to all those countries ... and when they helped the taliban massacre people across the country - it was good for business ... no one cared about the taliban then ...
The term, 'failure', is in the eye of the beholder. It is a great success to the Warlords who now sit in power.
I also feel that there was a window of opportunity that existed in 2002... but, poor (politically motivated) decision making squandered a (U.S./Western view) positive outcome.
Maybe if we put forth move of an effort to win the confidence of the masses, than their leaders... thing might have turned out better. As it is... to the Joe Reg'lur Afghani dude... it doesn't matter who kills his kid, Taliban fundamentalist or U.S. soldier... he is going to hate them and their leaders.
Hail, Hail!!!
how do you come to the conclusion it was a poor decision!? ... why not come to the conclusion that afghanistan is where it was meant to be ... an unstable region requiring the expenditure of us dollars for the foreseeable future to companies like haliburton ...
Because it was a poor decision from an America-centric point of view. Doesn't mean it is the right point of view... just a relative/subjective point of view.
Hail, Hail!!!
i think we're having different conversations ...
I agree with all your points.
Sorry. Here is what I mean when I say an America-centric point of view and decisions made based upon that one-sided perspective:
"Being the centre of the global strategic game Afghanistan in strategic terms is just a stage and not an ultimate end of US strategic thrusts launched in the aftermath of 9/11. The US strategy seems to be to acquire air bases in Afghanistan which can enable to have strategic freedom of manoeuvre in any future contingency, rather than relying on Pakistan for air bases. Thus the emergence of Bagram and Kandahar as two Subic Bay replicas. This US strategic interest is in clash with the regional powers in neighbourhood of Afghanistan i. e China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan and even India in the long run.
Pakistan is only tip of the iceberg of opponents of US presence in Afghanistan. This scribe in a an article published in NATION in Pakistan had identified Afghanistan as USA's strategic opportunity. If USA had a debt of honour to vindicate or avenge Vietnam in Afghanistan , Russia has one to settle in Afghanistan. The Russians have become more subtle but no less ruthless. Half the journalists murdered in Russia since 1991 were murdered in President Putin's tenure from 2000 till 2006.
Being the historic highway of conquest Afghanistan provides USA with a Strategic heartland for future operations in geopolitical terms of Mackinder and Mahan. The next decade appears to be a decade of manoeuvre and getting into position by China, USA, Russia and even India. Pakistan, Iran and Central Asian Republics being junior players and tactical garbage collectors of USA, China and Russia. The USA will have multiple vulnerable areas to deal with starting from the very US so called homeland to a wide range of areas including Middle East, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. There may be temporary stability in some regions but peace will be an illusion. The USA, to date, is clueless about how to deal with Iran. By its Iraq faux pas it has already created a vast Shia bloc stretching from Iraq to Lebanon and has made Iran strategically stronger.
Pakistan may be less easier to tackle with presidential elections of 2007 approaching and the Pakistani military junta fearful of losing more credibility in the eyes of US populace by being perceived as a dog catcher for USA."
ref. http://www.chowk.com/Views/Politics/Afg ... c-Analysis
Hail, Hail!!!
Well, yeah. Until they start sending people to fly planes into buildings in downtown Manhattan. See how that works?
for the least they could possibly do
I agree with this.
for the least they could possibly do
You send 19, we will send thousands, kill hundreds of thousands and bomb the shit out of you......for 9 years......
America fuck yeah!
The Pentagon has announced that it is hiring US Training Center Inc. (USTC), a subsidiary of Blackwater International (which renamed itself Xe Services after being humiliated by multiple Iraq lawsuits), to a major contractor for “counter-narcoterrorism activities in Afghanistan.”
The deal to bring USTC to bear in the Afghan drug war comes despite probes by both the Defense and State Departments of misconduct by Blackwater officials within Afghanistan, including reports that they misled officials and misappropriated government weaponry.
The new contract would have them providing “intelligence analyst support and material procurement” for NATO in the ongoing Afghan drug war, with Blackwater CEO Ted Wright said underscored their ability to provide “all-source intelligence expertise.”
The company’s constant efforts to “rebrand” seem to be aimed primarily at hiding from the public scorn Blackwater earned in Iraq, but don’t appear to be necessary from administration perspectives, as the US continues to eagerly hire them for multi-million dollar deals.
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... 313597799/
I for one would like to know exactly what goal there is to accomplish that hasn't been accomplished yet. Because I think any goal that hasn't been accomplished by now is simply unattainable.
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
oh ... yeah ... i agree ... but i've been contending also that the current situations in both those countries are exactly the way they want it ... it's in response to people saying they made poor decisions or this, that or the other ...
the reality is that most people assumed the goal was to free the people from an authoritative and oppressive regime ... install full democracy and then leave ... but nothing absolutely nothing points to that ever being the goal ... a fully democratic state is not going to allow you to build permanent military bases there and allow you to dictate domestic policy ...
it's all about war profiteering and the imperialistic goals you mentioned ...
Absolutely. That and religion. War= profiteering+imperialism+religion (or any combination there of).
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
http://news.yahoo.com/us-marks-first-mo ... 12375.html
A-Fuckin-men!
I was looking more at the military point of view, too... forward base of operations in the strategic oil region to fend off a China or Russia in case there is some heavy shit going down in the future. War Machines need fuel. The first grab will be for the oil. Tanks and Jets are useless if they cannot run.
The best environment for those strategic bases, would be one that is somewhat stable... with 'stable' meaning setting up their governments to our liking.
I knew all of that 'Spreading Democracy' was bullshit to pacify an illiterate citizenry. The only people who bought into that democracy crap were the ones on the backside of the Bell curve.
We were and are loooking at a long term deployment over there... making enemies in the meantime with those ungrateful bastards living above OUR oil.
Hail, Hail!!!
How many Iraqi deaths?
Those don't count.
Hail, Hail!!!