Home› A Moving Train

Why Are We STILL In Afghanistan and Iraq?

CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
edited September 2011 in A Moving Train
It really is time to get the fuck out of those places. Even those whom used to support the wars are saying it's time to bail.
If the biggest issue is our economy... I know where we can cut several BILLIONS out of the budget... AFGHANISTAN and IRAQ!!!
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1

Comments

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
    Oil.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    GPS is fucked and no one can read the exit map.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,157
    brianlux wrote:
    Oil.
    In regards to Afghanistan ...

    Land-locked country. Iran & Pakistan as neighbors. Oil is not the reason.

    The reason is that the U.S. screwed up with taking on two wars at the same time. They let Afghanistan fester too long. Now, we owe it to get out as soon as possible, but not only for our own selfish goals, but also taking into regards leaving that country as stable as possible.

    Afghanistan was a beautiful country prior to the 1978'ish (date not verified) collapse of the kingdom and the Soviet invasion. It's been locked in a vicious circle of war and dominance. I don't know if the U.S. can fix it, but we better give it our damndest try ...
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    brianlux wrote:
    Oil.
    'Taint no oil in Afghanistan....that's where the lion's share of the U.S.'s money is spinning down the toilet right now. NO foreign nation has EVER had ANY success "nation-building" in Afghanistan....Never Ever!!! It didn't kill the British Empire, but it sure helped the Soviet Empire begin its crumble to the end. It is well past time to pack up our bags and shuffle out of Afghanistan. Wonder if we can launch the drones from Turkey to Pakistan???
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    Jason P wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    Oil.
    In regards to Afghanistan ...

    Land-locked country. Iran & Pakistan as neighbors. Oil is not the reason.

    The reason is that the U.S. screwed up with taking on two wars at the same time. They let Afghanistan fester too long. Now, we owe it to get out as soon as possible, but not only for our own selfish goals, but also taking into regards leaving that country as stable as possible.

    Afghanistan was a beautiful country prior to the 1978'ish (date not verified) collapse of the kingdom and the Soviet invasion. It's been locked in a vicious circle of war and dominance. I don't know if the U.S. can fix it, but we better give it our damndest try ...
    I believe the Soviets invaded in 1979.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    Cosmo wrote:
    It really is time to get the fuck out of those places. Even those whom used to support the wars are saying it's time to bail.
    If the biggest issue is our economy... I know where we can cut several BILLIONS out of the budget... AFGHANISTAN and IRAQ!!!

    Yes, the cons are weak sauce in that they don't like "Obamas wars" now.

    the dems are weak sauce for not putting the pressure on Obama to get the fuck out of there.


    time for another anit war rally in Washington.
  • RFTCRFTC Posts: 723
    why?

    $, aka, the military industrial complex.

    the public support for these wars are in what, the low teens and have been for multiple years. no matter, we have a subservient relationship to the defense contractors that profit from these escapades. AFG will not be stable per the western definition anytime soon (with or w/out the usa occupation)
    San Diego Sports Arena - Oct 25, 2000
    MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006
    Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006
    New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010
    Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011
    Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012
    EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012
    Dallas-November 2013
    OKC-November 2013
    ACL 2-October 2014
    Fenway Night 1, August 2016
    Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018
    Fort Worth, Night 1 September 2023
    Fort Worth, Night 2 September 2023
    Austin, Night 1 September 2023
    Austin, Night 2 September 2023
  • Newch91Newch91 Posts: 17,560
    http://news.yahoo.com/360m-lost-insurge ... 50640.html
    Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
    "Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    You break, you buy. Pottery Barn credo.

    You had to know, the second we got involved in these countries, we'd be there a long, long, long, long, long time. Probably forever.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • inlet13inlet13 Posts: 1,979
    Not sure. I think we should get out.

    If I had to pick one though, I think remaining in Iraq and slowly getting out makes a lot more sense than Afghanistan at this point. At least Iraq has a shot of becoming something good one day.
    Here's a new demo called "in the fire":

    <object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt; <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    Newch91 wrote:
    http://news.yahoo.com/360m-lost-insurgents-criminals-afghanistan-150450640.html
    Been supplying arms to the "bad guys" in that country for about three decades....why quit now, I guess. :roll:
    I guess that this is the "dark side" of "nation building"
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • sparky_frysparky_fry Posts: 760
    Iraq = oil
    Afghanistan = Poppies to remind us how pointless and deadly war is
  • RFTCRFTC Posts: 723
    inlet13 wrote:
    Not sure. I think we should get out.

    If I had to pick one though, I think remaining in Iraq and slowly getting out makes a lot more sense than Afghanistan at this point. At least Iraq has a shot of becoming something good one day.

    i generally agree w/this, the whole 'cradle of civilization' thing and strategically it makes a whole hell of alot more sense to recuperate in iraq, now AFG, holy hell, words cannot begin to describe that mess. i would advocate mass troops (and corresponding TIT sucking :o military contractors) to exit now, leave special ops & drone missions to carry out strategic kills.
    San Diego Sports Arena - Oct 25, 2000
    MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006
    Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006
    New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010
    Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011
    Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012
    EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012
    Dallas-November 2013
    OKC-November 2013
    ACL 2-October 2014
    Fenway Night 1, August 2016
    Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018
    Fort Worth, Night 1 September 2023
    Fort Worth, Night 2 September 2023
    Austin, Night 1 September 2023
    Austin, Night 2 September 2023
  • markin ballmarkin ball Posts: 1,075
    Location, location, location.

    Obama turned out to be seriously full of crap on bringing the troops home.

    Would Ron Paul keep his word on this?
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
    Good call. Let me rephrase:

    Iraq: Oil

    Afghanistan: Minerals

    It's all about resources. We've either used up all of ours except in a few protected places (thank goodness) so now we're going after theirs (unfortunately). All wars are and have been about resources and/or religion. These two are about resources. Two choices: live sustainably or go to war. As a nation, we keep choosing the latter. Bad choice.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    We aren't going anywhere until we get control of the mining rights. To control the raw material REQUIRED for the manufacture of power sources, including batteries for all electronic equipment would make China, India, Japan, etc. our bitches.

    U.S. Identifies Vast Mineral Riches in Afghanistan
    By James Risen Published: June 13, 2010

    WASHINGTON — The United States has discovered nearly $1 trillion in untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan, far beyond any previously known reserves and enough to fundamentally alter the Afghan economy and perhaps the Afghan war itself, according to senior American government officials.

    The previously unknown deposits — including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium — are so big and include so many minerals that are essential to modern industry that Afghanistan could eventually be transformed into one of the most important mining centers in the world, the United States officials believe.

    An internal Pentagon memo, for example, states that Afghanistan could become the “Saudi Arabia of lithium,” a key raw material in the manufacture of batteries for laptops and BlackBerrys.

    The vast scale of Afghanistan’s mineral wealth was discovered by a small team of Pentagon officials and American geologists. The Afghan government and President Hamid Karzai were recently briefed, American officials said.

    While it could take many years to develop a mining industry, the potential is so great that officials and executives in the industry believe it could attract heavy investment even before mines are profitable, providing the possibility of jobs that could distract from generations of war.

    “There is stunning potential here,” Gen. David H. Petraeus, commander of the United States Central Command, said in an interview on Saturday. “There are a lot of ifs, of course, but I think potentially it is hugely significant.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world ... erals.html
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    We aren't going anywhere until we get control of the mining rights. To control the raw material REQUIRED for the manufacture of power sources, including batteries for all electronic equipment would make China, India, Japan, etc. our bitches.

    U.S. Identifies Vast Mineral Riches in Afghanistan
    By James Risen Published: June 13, 2010

    WASHINGTON — The United States has discovered nearly $1 trillion in untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan, far beyond any previously known reserves and enough to fundamentally alter the Afghan economy and perhaps the Afghan war itself, according to senior American government officials.

    The previously unknown deposits — including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium — are so big and include so many minerals that are essential to modern industry that Afghanistan could eventually be transformed into one of the most important mining centers in the world, the United States officials believe.

    An internal Pentagon memo, for example, states that Afghanistan could become the “Saudi Arabia of lithium,” a key raw material in the manufacture of batteries for laptops and BlackBerrys.

    The vast scale of Afghanistan’s mineral wealth was discovered by a small team of Pentagon officials and American geologists. The Afghan government and President Hamid Karzai were recently briefed, American officials said.

    While it could take many years to develop a mining industry, the potential is so great that officials and executives in the industry believe it could attract heavy investment even before mines are profitable, providing the possibility of jobs that could distract from generations of war.

    “There is stunning potential here,” Gen. David H. Petraeus, commander of the United States Central Command, said in an interview on Saturday. “There are a lot of ifs, of course, but I think potentially it is hugely significant.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world ... erals.html
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    Cosmo wrote:
    It really is time to get the fuck out of those places. Even those whom used to support the wars are saying it's time to bail.
    If the biggest issue is our economy... I know where we can cut several BILLIONS out of the budget... AFGHANISTAN and IRAQ!!!

    Some of the people who supported the wars and want to bail now, just feel this way because they know they can't attack Iran while still being tied up in Afghanistan and Iraq,

    hey Mr Cosmo, let's look at it this way, if we fully get control of Iraq and Afghanistan's resources, well they are worth many Trillions! :lol: It only makes sense to continue the war :P ..But then why would they want to attack Iran? Oh yes, for Israel,

    :D
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    RFTC wrote:
    why?

    $, aka, the military industrial complex.

    the public support for these wars are in what, the low teens and have been for multiple years. no matter, we have a subservient relationship to the defense contractors that profit from these escapades. AFG will not be stable per the western definition anytime soon (with or w/out the usa occupation)

    this ...

    also ... the US is in afghanistan for a couple of reasons ...

    1. any major pipeline for oil and gas from the balkans will have to go through afghanistan to get to water ... also through pakistan which is why despite "harbouring" OBL - they have been ignored ...

    2. maintaining bases in afghanistan allows for easy military access to the country sandwiching iraq and afghanistan ... iran ...

    these wars have and always will be about profiteering ... it has nothing to do with the freedom and liberty of the people that have been sent into a war zone ...
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    RFTC wrote:
    inlet13 wrote:
    Not sure. I think we should get out.

    If I had to pick one though, I think remaining in Iraq and slowly getting out makes a lot more sense than Afghanistan at this point. At least Iraq has a shot of becoming something good one day.

    i generally agree w/this, the whole 'cradle of civilization' thing and strategically it makes a whole hell of alot more sense to recuperate in iraq, now AFG, holy hell, words cannot begin to describe that mess. i would advocate mass troops (and corresponding TIT sucking :o military contractors) to exit now, leave special ops & drone missions to carry out strategic kills.

    I put this in the military spending thread too, but I thought it was important:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44171605/ns/politics/
    "After examining hundreds of combat support and reconstruction contracts in Afghanistan, the U.S military estimates $360 million in U.S. tax dollars has ended up in the hands of people the American-led coalition has spent nearly a decade battling: the Taliban, criminals and power brokers with ties to both."

    I just hope this kind of thing does not continue for too much longer.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    I put this in the military spending thread too, but I thought it was important:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44171605/ns/politics/
    "After examining hundreds of combat support and reconstruction contracts in Afghanistan, the U.S military estimates $360 million in U.S. tax dollars has ended up in the hands of people the American-led coalition has spent nearly a decade battling: the Taliban, criminals and power brokers with ties to both."

    I just hope this kind of thing does not continue for too much longer.

    this instability is intentional ... when you take a step back and think about how one could profit from a conflict - everything makes sense ... the overbilling, the missing money, the transfers to the so called "enemy", the complete mess up of operations ... the neverending feel to the entire mission ... plus when you add the building of permanent military bases - it's even more evident ...
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    polaris_x wrote:
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    I put this in the military spending thread too, but I thought it was important:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44171605/ns/politics/
    "After examining hundreds of combat support and reconstruction contracts in Afghanistan, the U.S military estimates $360 million in U.S. tax dollars has ended up in the hands of people the American-led coalition has spent nearly a decade battling: the Taliban, criminals and power brokers with ties to both."

    I just hope this kind of thing does not continue for too much longer.

    this instability is intentional ... when you take a step back and think about how one could profit from a conflict - everything makes sense ... the overbilling, the missing money, the transfers to the so called "enemy", the complete mess up of operations ... the neverending feel to the entire mission ... plus when you add the building of permanent military bases - it's even more evident ...

    True. and I remember hearing from some friends in construction (back in mid 2000s) that contractors could go to work in Iraq for 6 months and make 5-10 times more money because of the 'dangers'. The cost of war is outrageous, especially the rebuilding.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Cosmo wrote:
    It really is time to get the fuck out of those places. Even those whom used to support the wars are saying it's time to bail.
    If the biggest issue is our economy... I know where we can cut several BILLIONS out of the budget... AFGHANISTAN and IRAQ!!!


    Vote for Ron Paul and this kind of thing won't be a problem in the future and our troops will be home ASAP. We are still there because there was never any plan to leave. What does "victory" look like in war now?
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,157
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    True. and I remember hearing from some friends in construction (back in mid 2000s) that contractors could go to work in Iraq for 6 months and make 5-10 times more money because of the 'dangers'. The cost of war is outrageous, especially the rebuilding.
    I could have went, but the pay increase wasn't worth the risk to me. My buddy working there sent pictures of his superintendent's pick-up truck ... it was littered with about 100 rounds from an AK-47. I was working in Seattle at the time ... picturesque mountains, water, and eco-hippies vs. 130 degree heat, suicide bombers, and a pay increase ... :think:
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,157
    brianlux wrote:

    Afghanistan: Minerals
    I've read stories about the trillions of dollars worth of minerals, but no infrastructure is present to claim them. I don't see anyone rushing in to exploit the materials and it's been 10 years. It's too rugged of a land-locked country filled with extremists to consider. Then you have to consider transportation and logistics ... there is a tiny, rugged portal into China, but Pakistan and Iran block land access to the Indian Ocean.

    If peace could be attained in Afghanistan, then mineral exploitation could become a reality ... but I don't see that happening anytime soon. They have problems protecting well guarded political leaders ... how hard would it be for the Taliban to disrupt a remote mining operation?
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    It really is time to get the fuck out of those places. Even those whom used to support the wars are saying it's time to bail.
    If the biggest issue is our economy... I know where we can cut several BILLIONS out of the budget... AFGHANISTAN and IRAQ!!!


    Vote for Ron Paul and this kind of thing won't be a problem in the future and our troops will be home ASAP. We are still there because there was never any plan to leave. What does "victory" look like in war now?

    so you have no problem saying sorry we bomb your country but we have to go. sorry but you destroyed that country and backing out now without the permission of the other country is selfish.
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    fife wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    It really is time to get the fuck out of those places. Even those whom used to support the wars are saying it's time to bail.
    If the biggest issue is our economy... I know where we can cut several BILLIONS out of the budget... AFGHANISTAN and IRAQ!!!


    Vote for Ron Paul and this kind of thing won't be a problem in the future and our troops will be home ASAP. We are still there because there was never any plan to leave. What does "victory" look like in war now?

    so you have no problem saying sorry we bomb your country but we have to go. sorry but you destroyed that country and backing out now without the permission of the other country is selfish.

    Nope, I don't have a problem with that. We can help with the rebuilding process without the military.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    It really is time to get the fuck out of those places. Even those whom used to support the wars are saying it's time to bail.
    If the biggest issue is our economy... I know where we can cut several BILLIONS out of the budget... AFGHANISTAN and IRAQ!!!


    Vote for Ron Paul and this kind of thing won't be a problem in the future and our troops will be home ASAP. We are still there because there was never any plan to leave. What does "victory" look like in war now?

    Ron Paul does seem very sincere in his desire to pull out of these wars and not get involved in others. The question that comes to mind is-- can one person actually change the course of things or are the powers that be too great for that to happen? It would be interesting to see if that could actually happen.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    fife wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    It really is time to get the fuck out of those places. Even those whom used to support the wars are saying it's time to bail.
    If the biggest issue is our economy... I know where we can cut several BILLIONS out of the budget... AFGHANISTAN and IRAQ!!!


    Vote for Ron Paul and this kind of thing won't be a problem in the future and our troops will be home ASAP. We are still there because there was never any plan to leave. What does "victory" look like in war now?

    so you have no problem saying sorry we bomb your country but we have to go. sorry but you destroyed that country and backing out now without the permission of the other country is selfish.
    It appears that the majority of folks in said country either do not want us there...or even care about the whole mess.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    Jason P wrote:
    brianlux wrote:

    Afghanistan: Minerals
    I've read stories about the trillions of dollars worth of minerals, but no infrastructure is present to claim them. I don't see anyone rushing in to exploit the materials and it's been 10 years. It's too rugged of a land-locked country filled with extremists to consider. Then you have to consider transportation and logistics ... there is a tiny, rugged portal into China, but Pakistan and Iran block land access to the Indian Ocean.

    If peace could be attained in Afghanistan, then mineral exploitation could become a reality ... but I don't see that happening anytime soon. They have problems protecting well guarded political leaders ... how hard would it be for the Taliban to disrupt a remote mining operation?
    And ore doesn't dig itself out of the ground either....is there a potential labor force in-country or would mining on this scale require importing the labor force? Could such an imported labor force be safe without a military presence?
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Sign In or Register to comment.