Wait minute, if you were to say, ‘I believe in life after death’ and his respond was simply ‘ok’, where is the ideology? You would have to then imply your own interpretation or ask for a direct response.
Is the rejection of religion its own ideology if the rejection is based on a religion’s existing ideology?
hmmmm interesting thought. i wouldnt have thought so, but i base that on the fact that in my case the rejection of religion as you call it is founded simply on one premise... there is no God/s. but as has been stated on this forum, there are people who equate God with love... they say they are of no religion but believe in God. can the two be mutually exclusive? some think so, but then they identify God as He personifying him as something in their own image... and this, amongst other things, is what religion does... though theyll have you thinking God created 'us' in His image.
i wonder if rejecting the basic premise is a rejection of the entire ideology. my thinking is that once i rejected that basic premise(of Gods existence)everything that came from it is irrelevant... extremely entertaining, and at times mindboggling but still irrelevant... to me.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
do not mistake a non belief in something as a belief in nothing..
oh my god, are you kidding me?
"I don't believe in life after death." what does this mean? It means, "I believe there is no life after death." of course, studying the english language tells us that one is more of a passive statement than the other, but the meanings are virtually the same.
Now, "I don't believe in any religion." what does this mean? do you wanna keep playing games here? atheism, secularism, in fact just being anti-religion in general is still a belief, an ideology. to claim to reject all religious ideologies is still an ideology.
Wait minute, if you were to say, ‘I believe in life after death’ and his respond was simply ‘ok’, where is the ideology? You would have to then imply your own interpretation or ask for a direct response.
Is the rejection of religion its own ideology if the rejection is based on a religion’s existing ideology?
what? you're changing the whole scenario now. no one here is simply saying O.k. That is total neutral ground and is not giving away anyone's ideology. Behind that person's response is certainly a belief the individual is holding onto on the subject. He/she just chose not to go into it when he/she said o.k.
the rejection of religion is an ideology no matter what it is based on.
this country started out with Christian beliefs in our laws and our money and our morals,I feel very strongly about these things and so do a whole bunch of other Americans and just because a few don't believe these things anymore does not mean we are not a Christian Country "in God we trust" "one nation under God"
"the land of the free and home of the brave" trust me we are still a Christian country bro and most proud Americans will not give that up for anybody as you can see from reading the story you posted.
Godfather.
This country was most definitely not founded as a "Christian Nation"
1797 Treaty of Tripoli
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
The phrase "Under God" was not added to the pledge until 1954. The phrase In God We Trust wasn't added to bills until 1957.
Besides, it says "God", not Jesus. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms.
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." - Thomas Paine
"Light houses are more useful than churches."-Benjamin Franklin
"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it."-John Adams
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shown on man." "In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty." "Question with boldness even the existance of a god." - Thomas Jefferson
While Thomas Paine certainly criticized Christianity, even to a greater extent than others, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were quite Christian. Finding these select quotes, without even properly citing them, is just misinterpreting history. I could go on and on about this, how you simplified it completely and were very disingenuous but I won't.
To say we are not a Christian nation is of course correct. The whole point of the U.S. is to be a nation for all, regardless of religion. To say we are not a Christian society is probably right, but also more debatable. I think most polls hold that most Americans believe in God and may consider themselves Christian. Still, all this is dependent on how one interprets Christianity and religion even. John Locke , one of the founders of modern secularism, along with Averroes, the great Muslim philosopher, both believed that religion should be separate from government not because religion corrupted government but because government corrupted religion! Government is power-seeking, greedy, etc. Religion can or cannot be. Point to one noble government in this world, you will not find one, not truly atleast. on the other hand, you can find plenty of churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, etc, that are perfectly peace loving, uncorrupt, and beneficial to its society. it may be because it's not as complicated as government is, but that's beside the point. the point is that separation of church and state was not only for the good of the people and government but for the good of religion as well. there are those who disagree and to discuss the issue in theory can still take place. for example, being a secular government and being a secular society are two different things. a secular government is pretty much in place in principle and really won't change unless they amend the constitution or change it altogether. a secular society is on the other hand pretty stupid to enforce because you are then trying to change societal behavior based on your own principles which is just as condemnable as any religionist trying to change society based on his. how religious a society is or how it functions should be left up to the people living in it, so if someone considers his society christian or secular, who are you to disagree? someone could interpret certain principles as christian even if those who carry them out are not necessarily christian, it's all left to the person. anti-religionists can be just as annoying as hardcore religionists when they try to make it that anything connected with religion is pure evil and anything good outside of that can be gotten without religion. even if that is true why should we ignore all the good religion has helped bring just because you don't believe in it? my point being in this paragraph that even if government is secular, if society still holds religious principles, once could argue that such a nation is carrying out Christianity or Islam or whatever religion out in the best way possible because, one could argue, those religions are meant to be for the people, not for the government. it really depends on how one views religion. should it be in a position of rule in government or left to the people to decide separate from the ruling structure that makes laws simply to govern society?
additionally, why do anti-religionists seem so confident in dismissing God as some big man in the sky as if that is how all those who believe in religion see him? the issue I find with people relying so heavily on science, or what most common people today know as science, which simply consists of running experiments and trying to prove something in a lab rather than philosophical or theoretical--which in truth is more science than anything--is that we understand so little of the world. even in the theory of quantum physics there are those scientists who say that our entire world is actually an illusion--that nothing is actually there visible except when we look at it. atoms and electrons are always moving and create this picture when we look at it. think of something like the matrix. it's pretty fucked up when you get so deep, and scientists like einstein and bohr helped lead us here and we have been stuck trying to figure out for decades now this issue. it's not something that we have been able to "prove" in a lab. there are definitely forces way beyond our control in this world. if people choose to interpret them as a God who created it who are you to be so certain that they are wrong? If any of you actually knew science and physics, and most importantly the theory of quantum mechanics you'd know that science isn't definite, it's not all "provable." quit being so damn sure of yourselves. I could go on and on but this post is already long enough.
...
The term, 'In God We Trust' was first minted on coins (pennies and nickels) in 1864... in an effort to avoid the Civil War. It whole God thing got way outta control in the 1950s because of the paranoia about the Communists taking over.
...
As for a Christian nation... remember in elementary schools when we learned about Pilgrims and shit? They were fleeing the Church of England. Back then, the church was the law and the law was based upon what the Church said.
Fast forward a couple of generations to the colonists. They wanted independence from England and wanted to set up their own soverignty here... new government, new laws, the whole 9 yards.
There is a reason WHY the First Amendment is first. They wanted a free press that could criticize the government without getting tossed in jail.... and to avoid having laws created and formed by the church. They believed in the creator... God or nature or whatever force creates life. There is nothing about folllowing Jesus Christ as our saviour.
And belief in God is not just a Christian thing... the Jews and Muslims both believe in the same God.
We are NOT a nation founded in Christianity... we are founded in a belief of freedom from the constraints of one religion.
sorry to burst your bubble... but, yeah... our founding fathers may have loved God (a.k.a. The Creator)... but, they really didn't like the Church... either Rome's or England's.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
The term, 'In God We Trust' was first minted on coins (pennies and nickels) in 1864... in an effort to avoid the Civil War. It whole God thing got way outta control in the 1950s because of the paranoia about the Communists taking over.
...
As for a Christian nation... remember in elementary schools when we learned about Pilgrims and shit? They were fleeing the Church of England. Back then, the church was the law and the law was based upon what the Church said.
Fast forward a couple of generations to the colonists. They wanted independence from England and wanted to set up their own soverignty here... new government, new laws, the whole 9 yards.
There is a reason WHY the First Amendment is first. They wanted a free press that could criticize the government without getting tossed in jail.... and to avoid having laws created and formed by the church. They believed in the creator... God or nature or whatever force creates life. There is nothing about folllowing Jesus Christ as our saviour.
And belief in God is not just a Christian thing... the Jews and Muslims both believe in the same God.
We are NOT a nation founded in Christianity... we are founded in a belief of freedom from the constraints of one religion.
sorry to burst your bubble... but, yeah... our founding fathers may have loved God (a.k.a. The Creator)... but, they really didn't like the Church... either Rome's or England's.
This is excaulty right except, all the pilgrim were still mostly christian, it went without saying.
Part of the reasoing for slavery was if we educate black people about jesus there damned anyway.
...
The term, 'In God We Trust' was first minted on coins (pennies and nickels) in 1864... in an effort to avoid the Civil War. It whole God thing got way outta control in the 1950s because of the paranoia about the Communists taking over.
...
As for a Christian nation... remember in elementary schools when we learned about Pilgrims and shit? They were fleeing the Church of England. Back then, the church was the law and the law was based upon what the Church said.
Fast forward a couple of generations to the colonists. They wanted independence from England and wanted to set up their own soverignty here... new government, new laws, the whole 9 yards.
There is a reason WHY the First Amendment is first. They wanted a free press that could criticize the government without getting tossed in jail.... and to avoid having laws created and formed by the church. They believed in the creator... God or nature or whatever force creates life. There is nothing about folllowing Jesus Christ as our saviour.
And belief in God is not just a Christian thing... the Jews and Muslims both believe in the same God.
We are NOT a nation founded in Christianity... we are founded in a belief of freedom from the constraints of one religion.
sorry to burst your bubble... but, yeah... our founding fathers may have loved God (a.k.a. The Creator)... but, they really didn't like the Church... either Rome's or England's.
This is excaulty right except, all the pilgrim were still mostly christian, it went without saying.
Part of the reasoing for slavery was if we educate black people about jesus there damned anyway.
...
Yeah... they were seperatists... a dissenting sect of the Church of England.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
i dont have a religion.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
hmmmm interesting thought. i wouldnt have thought so, but i base that on the fact that in my case the rejection of religion as you call it is founded simply on one premise... there is no God/s. but as has been stated on this forum, there are people who equate God with love... they say they are of no religion but believe in God. can the two be mutually exclusive? some think so, but then they identify God as He personifying him as something in their own image... and this, amongst other things, is what religion does... though theyll have you thinking God created 'us' in His image.
i wonder if rejecting the basic premise is a rejection of the entire ideology. my thinking is that once i rejected that basic premise(of Gods existence)everything that came from it is irrelevant... extremely entertaining, and at times mindboggling but still irrelevant... to me.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
the rejection of religion is an ideology no matter what it is based on.
To say we are not a Christian nation is of course correct. The whole point of the U.S. is to be a nation for all, regardless of religion. To say we are not a Christian society is probably right, but also more debatable. I think most polls hold that most Americans believe in God and may consider themselves Christian. Still, all this is dependent on how one interprets Christianity and religion even. John Locke , one of the founders of modern secularism, along with Averroes, the great Muslim philosopher, both believed that religion should be separate from government not because religion corrupted government but because government corrupted religion! Government is power-seeking, greedy, etc. Religion can or cannot be. Point to one noble government in this world, you will not find one, not truly atleast. on the other hand, you can find plenty of churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, etc, that are perfectly peace loving, uncorrupt, and beneficial to its society. it may be because it's not as complicated as government is, but that's beside the point. the point is that separation of church and state was not only for the good of the people and government but for the good of religion as well. there are those who disagree and to discuss the issue in theory can still take place. for example, being a secular government and being a secular society are two different things. a secular government is pretty much in place in principle and really won't change unless they amend the constitution or change it altogether. a secular society is on the other hand pretty stupid to enforce because you are then trying to change societal behavior based on your own principles which is just as condemnable as any religionist trying to change society based on his. how religious a society is or how it functions should be left up to the people living in it, so if someone considers his society christian or secular, who are you to disagree? someone could interpret certain principles as christian even if those who carry them out are not necessarily christian, it's all left to the person. anti-religionists can be just as annoying as hardcore religionists when they try to make it that anything connected with religion is pure evil and anything good outside of that can be gotten without religion. even if that is true why should we ignore all the good religion has helped bring just because you don't believe in it? my point being in this paragraph that even if government is secular, if society still holds religious principles, once could argue that such a nation is carrying out Christianity or Islam or whatever religion out in the best way possible because, one could argue, those religions are meant to be for the people, not for the government. it really depends on how one views religion. should it be in a position of rule in government or left to the people to decide separate from the ruling structure that makes laws simply to govern society?
additionally, why do anti-religionists seem so confident in dismissing God as some big man in the sky as if that is how all those who believe in religion see him? the issue I find with people relying so heavily on science, or what most common people today know as science, which simply consists of running experiments and trying to prove something in a lab rather than philosophical or theoretical--which in truth is more science than anything--is that we understand so little of the world. even in the theory of quantum physics there are those scientists who say that our entire world is actually an illusion--that nothing is actually there visible except when we look at it. atoms and electrons are always moving and create this picture when we look at it. think of something like the matrix. it's pretty fucked up when you get so deep, and scientists like einstein and bohr helped lead us here and we have been stuck trying to figure out for decades now this issue. it's not something that we have been able to "prove" in a lab. there are definitely forces way beyond our control in this world. if people choose to interpret them as a God who created it who are you to be so certain that they are wrong? If any of you actually knew science and physics, and most importantly the theory of quantum mechanics you'd know that science isn't definite, it's not all "provable." quit being so damn sure of yourselves. I could go on and on but this post is already long enough.
The term, 'In God We Trust' was first minted on coins (pennies and nickels) in 1864... in an effort to avoid the Civil War. It whole God thing got way outta control in the 1950s because of the paranoia about the Communists taking over.
...
As for a Christian nation... remember in elementary schools when we learned about Pilgrims and shit? They were fleeing the Church of England. Back then, the church was the law and the law was based upon what the Church said.
Fast forward a couple of generations to the colonists. They wanted independence from England and wanted to set up their own soverignty here... new government, new laws, the whole 9 yards.
There is a reason WHY the First Amendment is first. They wanted a free press that could criticize the government without getting tossed in jail.... and to avoid having laws created and formed by the church. They believed in the creator... God or nature or whatever force creates life. There is nothing about folllowing Jesus Christ as our saviour.
And belief in God is not just a Christian thing... the Jews and Muslims both believe in the same God.
We are NOT a nation founded in Christianity... we are founded in a belief of freedom from the constraints of one religion.
sorry to burst your bubble... but, yeah... our founding fathers may have loved God (a.k.a. The Creator)... but, they really didn't like the Church... either Rome's or England's.
Hail, Hail!!!
This is excaulty right except, all the pilgrim were still mostly christian, it went without saying.
Part of the reasoing for slavery was if we educate black people about jesus there damned anyway.
Yeah... they were seperatists... a dissenting sect of the Church of England.
Hail, Hail!!!