I teach breastfeeding education so I will say to Ziggy, saggy boobs is a myth.
Also Rick and others, nippe confusion is real, and the WHO recommendations are in place based on what is best for babies.
That being said, it seems many of the problems described here weren't a battle of breast vs. Bottle, rather a lack of compassion for new parents trying to do what was best for their families.
Those of you planning on having kids need to research providers, hospitals, staff to make sure you get the care you want and deserve. Most women spend more time planning their wedding than planning their birth.
I teach breastfeeding education so I will say to Ziggy, saggy boobs is a myth.
Also Rick and others, nippe confusion is real, and the WHO recommendations are in place based on what is best for babies.
That being said, it seems many of the problems described here weren't a battle of breast vs. Bottle, rather a lack of compassion for new parents trying to do what was best for their families.
Those of you planning on having kids need to research providers, hospitals, staff to make sure you get the care you want and deserve. Most women spend more time planning their wedding than planning their birth.
(Oh yeah, and hire a doula!!)
I understand where you are coming from, but with what happened to us, my advice is just make sure the baby is feeding.
Sigh....there's no doubt that I'm going to breastfeed but I'm really not looking forward to how saggy it makes your boobs....mine are small and perky....not for fucking long. Damn babies! :x
It is normal for babies to lose weight in the first few days. In NZ there seems to be a stigma either way breast or bottle, everyone seems to have an opinion. It is no ones business other than the mothers. When I started bottle feeding my daughter I had nasty comments and when people found out I was still breast feeding my son after 6 months I got weird looks and comments about being a hippie. As long as the mother has had helpful and kind advice then it is up to her. Most of our generation were bottle fed and we turned out fine.
You really are damned if you do, damned if you don't. I will probably get a lot of shit for this but my youngest just weaned a week before her second birthday. This freaks me out though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHRyRCHuQ7g
It is a choice dependent on many factors. Choose what feels right for you and the baby in the end.
I realized that BF is not about me being able to do it, but it was about my baby getting enough. I found that when I decided to switch my LO to soy formula @ 6 months, it was a decision I made entirely for him due to his pediatric reflux and "Celiac-type" allergies. The conditions were really stunting his weight gain, and slowing milestones, so it was an easy decision for me with all the evidence in front of me.
Some people didn't understand my decision, I didn't bother to explain it to them as they thought I was just plain wrong. I let them keep their assumptions about my "giving up" and what not. I knew what I was doing was right, and his condition did improve within 3 days. And that's all that mattered to me.
I had wonderful midwives and doctors and pediatricians who taught me so much through that experience. I would NOT change a thing about my BF experience.
That being said, I do wish North America would relax about BF. It is the natural purpose of the mammary glands. But as we know, it is not the only purpose. Women take on many roles, and so do our breasts. Love us for all of roles, not just one.
It is normal for babies to lose weight in the first few days. In NZ there seems to be a stigma either way breast or bottle, everyone seems to have an opinion. It is no ones business other than the mothers. When I started bottle feeding my daughter I had nasty comments and when people found out I was still breast feeding my son after 6 months I got weird looks and comments about being a hippie. As long as the mother has had helpful and kind advice then it is up to her. Most of our generation were bottle fed and we turned out fine.
You really are damned if you do, damned if you don't. I will probably get a lot of shit for this but my youngest just weaned a week before her second birthday. This freaks me out though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHRyRCHuQ7g
I think it is awesome that you breastfed for two years!!
Early weaning is certainly a cultural thing. It is considered "weird" here in the states for women to nurse beyond two, where other cultures advanced nursing is common and encouraged (especially when confronted with poor living conditions, improper water treatment). Advanced breastfeeding is sometimes life or death for children of other cultures.
Most of our generation were bottle fed and we turned out fine.
Nobody should judge how another parent raises their children. However I find the "we turned out fine" argument to be very damaging. Our parents did so many harmful things that at the time were considered ok. And you know what? There are a lot of fucked up adults walking around on this globe. Turning out fine is relative and what may have worked for one family, could have worked to fuck up another.
I hear it often in the work I do, and all I can think is "you may not be so lucky to turn out fine."
Sigh....there's no doubt that I'm going to breastfeed but I'm really not looking forward to how saggy it makes your boobs....mine are small and perky....not for fucking long. Damn babies! :x
Sigh....there's no doubt that I'm going to breastfeed but I'm really not looking forward to how saggy it makes your boobs....mine are small and perky....not for fucking long. Damn babies! :x
Not creepy at all. Children mimic what they see in their families. If they are raised to believe breastfeeding is normal, they will nurse their toy babies. Toy manufacturers don't need a doll to do this, kids do it already.
What is creepy is that breasts have become so sexualized that we limit children's imaginations by telling them that nursing their baby is disgusting or wrong.
Like I said, I really don't want to get into it (my wife will likely breastfeed, by the way, if that time comes), but you're right: children mimic what they see in their families. My guess is that you didn't play with a breast-feeding doll as a child and you're fully in support of the practice. So what does that tell us about the utility of a breastfeeding doll or dolls in general?
I guess I just personally get annoyed by the whole "women are made to be mothers" thing that is so prevalent in our culture. I see this type of doll as just another piece of that sick puzzle. By choice, my wife and I may never have kids; you would not believe the amount of shit she gets when people ask her that. I have twin 6 year old nieces that are being raised in a very born-again Christian household; without going into detail, its clear they are being groomed to be mothers. Period. A doll that breastfeeds? Marketed so that little girls can "learnto breastfeed?"
Last I checked, breastfeeding was a natural instinct and last I checked, girls don't always end up as mothers. So why the need for a breast-feeding doll? I'm not concerned that this doll contributes to the sexualization of little girls (even saying that seems weird); I'm concerned that there's this perceived need to train little girls to be mothers, whether that means making sure they wear pink or making sure they play with the proper toys so they learn how to be good mothers etc, lest they grow up to be some horrible, barren spinster who never learned her proper role in society...whew...deep breath...
Maybe its just the feminist in me...and I'm really not looking for an argument, because I'm sure we probably agree more than we disagree. I just find this doll to be creepy.
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Like I said, I really don't want to get into it (my wife will likely breastfeed, by the way, if that time comes), but you're right: children mimic what they see in their families. My guess is that you didn't play with a breast-feeding doll as a child and you're fully in support of the practice. So what does that tell us about the utility of a breastfeeding doll or dolls in general?
I guess I just personally get annoyed by the whole "women are made to be mothers" thing that is so prevalent in our culture. I see this type of doll as just another piece of that sick puzzle. By choice, my wife and I may never have kids; you would not believe the amount of shit she gets when people ask her that. I have twin 6 year old nieces that are being raised in a very born-again Christian household; without going into detail, its clear they are being groomed to be mothers. Period. A doll that breastfeeds? Marketed so that little girls can "learnto breastfeed?"
Last I checked, breastfeeding was a natural instinct and last I checked, girls don't always end up as mothers. So why the need for a breast-feeding doll? I'm not concerned that this doll contributes to the sexualization of little girls (even saying that seems weird); I'm concerned that there's this perceived need to train little girls to be mothers, whether that means making sure they wear pink or making sure they play with the proper toys so they learn how to be good mothers etc, lest they grow up to be some horrible, barren spinster who never learned her proper role in society...whew...deep breath...
Maybe its just the feminist in me...and I'm really not looking for an argument, because I'm sure we probably agree more than we disagree. I just find this doll to be creepy.
EXCELLENT post! I agree with you wholeheartedly - about the doll and about the female role in society. I've been married almost 6 years and you wouldn't believe the amount of crap we take because we don't have kids yet. To be honest, I'm not even sure I want to have any and when THAT little nugget leaves my mouth it's always someone saying "oh you'll change your mind". I'm 30 years old, pretty sure I'm not going to change my mind at this point and also just because it's right for some people doesn't mean it's right for everyone.
Ha sorry for the vent, but your post just sparked the feminist in me as well!
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Like I said, I really don't want to get into it (my wife will likely breastfeed, by the way, if that time comes), but you're right: children mimic what they see in their families. My guess is that you didn't play with a breast-feeding doll as a child and you're fully in support of the practice. So what does that tell us about the utility of a breastfeeding doll or dolls in general?
I guess I just personally get annoyed by the whole "women are made to be mothers" thing that is so prevalent in our culture. I see this type of doll as just another piece of that sick puzzle. By choice, my wife and I may never have kids; you would not believe the amount of shit she gets when people ask her that. I have twin 6 year old nieces that are being raised in a very born-again Christian household; without going into detail, its clear they are being groomed to be mothers. Period. A doll that breastfeeds? Marketed so that little girls can "learnto breastfeed?"
Last I checked, breastfeeding was a natural instinct and last I checked, girls don't always end up as mothers. So why the need for a breast-feeding doll? I'm not concerned that this doll contributes to the sexualization of little girls (even saying that seems weird); I'm concerned that there's this perceived need to train little girls to be mothers, whether that means making sure they wear pink or making sure they play with the proper toys so they learn how to be good mothers etc, lest they grow up to be some horrible, barren spinster who never learned her proper role in society...whew...deep breath...
Maybe its just the feminist in me...and I'm really not looking for an argument, because I'm sure we probably agree more than we disagree. I just find this doll to be creepy.
EXCELLENT post! I agree with you wholeheartedly - about the doll and about the female role in society. I've been married almost 6 years and you wouldn't believe the amount of crap we take because we don't have kids yet. To be honest, I'm not even sure I want to have any and when THAT little nugget leaves my mouth it's always someone saying "oh you'll change your mind". I'm 30 years old, pretty sure I'm not going to change my mind at this point and also just because it's right for some people doesn't mean it's right for everyone.
Ha sorry for the vent, but your post just sparked the feminist in me as well!
Word! Glad we're not the only ones dealing with that.
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Last I checked, breastfeeding was a natural instinct
I liked your post. But this isn't really true. Turns out it's much harder than it looks. (who'd have thought?) By the time the 8th different "lactation consultant" comes into the hospital room you're ready to take the baby and flee the damn place. Every one of them seemed to tell my wife something different. :roll:
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Not creepy at all. Children mimic what they see in their families. If they are raised to believe breastfeeding is normal, they will nurse their toy babies. Toy manufacturers don't need a doll to do this, kids do it already.
What is creepy is that breasts have become so sexualized that we limit children's imaginations by telling them that nursing their baby is disgusting or wrong.
Like I said, I really don't want to get into it (my wife will likely breastfeed, by the way, if that time comes), but you're right: children mimic what they see in their families. My guess is that you didn't play with a breast-feeding doll as a child and you're fully in support of the practice. So what does that tell us about the utility of a breastfeeding doll or dolls in general?
I guess I just personally get annoyed by the whole "women are made to be mothers" thing that is so prevalent in our culture. I see this type of doll as just another piece of that sick puzzle. By choice, my wife and I may never have kids; you would not believe the amount of shit she gets when people ask her that. I have twin 6 year old nieces that are being raised in a very born-again Christian household; without going into detail, its clear they are being groomed to be mothers. Period. A doll that breastfeeds? Marketed so that little girls can "learnto breastfeed?"
Last I checked, breastfeeding was a natural instinct and last I checked, girls don't always end up as mothers. So why the need for a breast-feeding doll? I'm not concerned that this doll contributes to the sexualization of little girls (even saying that seems weird); I'm concerned that there's this perceived need to train little girls to be mothers, whether that means making sure they wear pink or making sure they play with the proper toys so they learn how to be good mothers etc, lest they grow up to be some horrible, barren spinster who never learned her proper role in society...whew...deep breath...
Maybe its just the feminist in me...and I'm really not looking for an argument, because I'm sure we probably agree more than we disagree. I just find this doll to be creepy.
The problem goes WAAAAAAAAY beyond a doll that mimics breastfeeding. The feminist that I am is PISSED that we constantly assign gender roles to children, boys play with guns, girls play with dolls. Boys wear blue, girls wear pink. I think children should be allowed to make believe in nurturing roles, no matter their gender, and marketers, and society as a whole places on them. I would not have a problem with a boy pretending to nurse his baby, wearing his baby, and doing all the things his mother does, just as a girl would. Children should be children first, and stopped being forced into specific societal roles. We can all benefit from children of both sexes that grow up learning to nurture, wether they end up as parents or not.
This doll has shown up on several blogs I follow, and the creepy comment comes always from the knucklehead that thinks breastfeeding is perverted. Thank you for clarifying that was not where your comment was made from.
Last I checked, breastfeeding was a natural instinct
I liked your post. But this isn't really true. Turns out it's much harder than it looks. (who'd have thought?) By the time the 8th different "lactation consultant" comes into the hospital room you're ready to take the baby and flee the damn place. Every one of them seemed to tell my wife something different. :roll:
True dat! It is hard, it takes a lot of support. Hospital "consultants" are usually just staff nurses that smash the baby's face into the boob and says "see, its easy, its natural." Please don't confuse them with certified, trained, compassionate peer counselers and Lactation Consultants.
Most of our generation were bottle fed and we turned out fine.
Nobody should judge how another parent raises their children. However I find the "we turned out fine" argument to be very damaging. Our parents did so many harmful things that at the time were considered ok. And you know what? There are a lot of fucked up adults walking around on this globe. Turning out fine is relative and what may have worked for one family, could have worked to fuck up another.
I hear it often in the work I do, and all I can think is "you may not be so lucky to turn out fine."
Yes I see your point and I am all for Breastfeeding. I just think that bottle feeding is not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. My daughter who only fed for 10 weeks has always been very healthy, my son who I fed for 18 months was always sick, so who knows. One of the main reasons I fed my son for so long was because it was free and we were really struggling at the time.
Last I checked, breastfeeding was a natural instinct
I liked your post. But this isn't really true. Turns out it's much harder than it looks. (who'd have thought?) By the time the 8th different "lactation consultant" comes into the hospital room you're ready to take the baby and flee the damn place. Every one of them seemed to tell my wife something different. :roll:
True dat! It is hard, it takes a lot of support. Hospital "consultants" are usually just staff nurses that smash the baby's face into the boob and says "see, its easy, its natural." Please don't confuse them with certified, trained, compassionate peer counselers and Lactation Consultants.
The earlier post about little girls being groomed to be mothers erked me a bit. In todays society there is so much emphaise on education and careers (so it should) and so little on trying to teach the importance of family and caring for each other. In our house both of our children are given equal opportunities to play with cars and dolls. My 3 yo son has his own doll which he pretends is his baby and my 6 yo old daughter likes playing cowboys.
It is very hard to force children to play with or do things that they don't enjoy. My son might like to play with dolls and dress up like a fairy, but most of the time he likes to wrestle with his dad and ride his scooter or bike. My daughter may occasionally like to play with the matchbox cars but mostly I will find her playing with her Barbies. Teaching your children compassion at a young age is important and I would have no issue with either of my kids playing with a breastfeeding doll.
Last I checked, breastfeeding was a natural instinct
I liked your post. But this isn't really true. Turns out it's much harder than it looks. (who'd have thought?) By the time the 8th different "lactation consultant" comes into the hospital room you're ready to take the baby and flee the damn place. Every one of them seemed to tell my wife something different. :roll:
True dat! It is hard, it takes a lot of support. Hospital "consultants" are usually just staff nurses that smash the baby's face into the boob and says "see, its easy, its natural." Please don't confuse them with certified, trained, compassionate peer counselers and Lactation Consultants.
The nurses here get all flustered if the baby doesn't latch on within 8 hours of birth and start ppushing sugar water or formula until you can get the hang of it. By the time I had my third I learned to just tell them she latched on fine even if she didn't.
The only issue I have with a breastfeeding doll is that it implys that a child cannot use their imagination with any doll. Any time I had a nursing baby and a toddler/preschooler, they would pretend to nurse their dolls, or teddy bears while I fed the baby. What can this baby do that a regular can't? Does she give you mastits or thrush? Shit out of the back of her diaper up to her neck?
It is normal for babies to lose weight in the first few days. In NZ there seems to be a stigma either way breast or bottle, everyone seems to have an opinion. It is no ones business other than the mothers. When I started bottle feeding my daughter I had nasty comments and when people found out I was still breast feeding my son after 6 months I got weird looks and comments about being a hippie. As long as the mother has had helpful and kind advice then it is up to her. Most of our generation were bottle fed and we turned out fine.
You really are damned if you do, damned if you don't. I will probably get a lot of shit for this but my youngest just weaned a week before her second birthday. This freaks me out though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHRyRCHuQ7g
I think it is awesome that you breastfed for two years!!
.
Thanks. She was my premie so it was a real struggle with her. She just couldn't stay awake long enough to get a good feeding and she wasn't gaining weight. For the first 6-8 weeks I had to set an alarm and encourage her to eat every 2 hours around the clock.
The earlier post about little girls being groomed to be mothers erked me a bit. In todays society there is so much emphaise on education and careers (so it should) and so little on trying to teach the importance of family and caring for each other. In our house both of our children are given equal opportunities to play with cars and dolls. My 3 yo son has his own doll which he pretends is his baby and my 6 yo old daughter likes playing cowboys.
It is very hard to force children to play with or do things that they don't enjoy. My son might like to play with dolls and dress up like a fairy, but most of the time he likes to wrestle with his dad and ride his scooter or bike. My daughter may occasionally like to play with the matchbox cars but mostly I will find her playing with her Barbies. Teaching your children compassion at a young age is important and I would have no issue with either of my kids playing with a breastfeeding doll.
Rant over, sorry....
Its not a matter of "grooming girls to be mothers" vs. "allowing them to be cold-hearted career driven witches." Of course we should be raising children of all genders to be nurturing, loving and caring people. But that doesn't mean we can't also simultaneously encourage young girls to be strong, independent and confident members of society and CHOOSE their role for themselves. My point is that whether we use the right toys or dress our children one way or another, it shouldn't be an expectation that young girls need to "learn to be mothers" or that young girls need to do anything. We can raise them to be loving people without also reinforcing the gender role that they can only ever be a "subservient, doting mother." THAT was my point.
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Comments
Also Rick and others, nippe confusion is real, and the WHO recommendations are in place based on what is best for babies.
That being said, it seems many of the problems described here weren't a battle of breast vs. Bottle, rather a lack of compassion for new parents trying to do what was best for their families.
Those of you planning on having kids need to research providers, hospitals, staff to make sure you get the care you want and deserve. Most women spend more time planning their wedding than planning their birth.
(Oh yeah, and hire a doula!!)
I understand where you are coming from, but with what happened to us, my advice is just make sure the baby is feeding.
I nursed four babies. Mama needs a boob job.
I realized that BF is not about me being able to do it, but it was about my baby getting enough. I found that when I decided to switch my LO to soy formula @ 6 months, it was a decision I made entirely for him due to his pediatric reflux and "Celiac-type" allergies. The conditions were really stunting his weight gain, and slowing milestones, so it was an easy decision for me with all the evidence in front of me.
Some people didn't understand my decision, I didn't bother to explain it to them as they thought I was just plain wrong. I let them keep their assumptions about my "giving up" and what not. I knew what I was doing was right, and his condition did improve within 3 days. And that's all that mattered to me.
I had wonderful midwives and doctors and pediatricians who taught me so much through that experience. I would NOT change a thing about my BF experience.
That being said, I do wish North America would relax about BF. It is the natural purpose of the mammary glands. But as we know, it is not the only purpose. Women take on many roles, and so do our breasts. Love us for all of roles, not just one.
So...YAY for IL!
GIGGITY!
I think it is awesome that you breastfed for two years!!
Early weaning is certainly a cultural thing. It is considered "weird" here in the states for women to nurse beyond two, where other cultures advanced nursing is common and encouraged (especially when confronted with poor living conditions, improper water treatment). Advanced breastfeeding is sometimes life or death for children of other cultures.
Nobody should judge how another parent raises their children. However I find the "we turned out fine" argument to be very damaging. Our parents did so many harmful things that at the time were considered ok. And you know what? There are a lot of fucked up adults walking around on this globe. Turning out fine is relative and what may have worked for one family, could have worked to fuck up another.
I hear it often in the work I do, and all I can think is "you may not be so lucky to turn out fine."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VBex8zbDRs
PMSL...:thumbup:
Like I said, I really don't want to get into it (my wife will likely breastfeed, by the way, if that time comes), but you're right: children mimic what they see in their families. My guess is that you didn't play with a breast-feeding doll as a child and you're fully in support of the practice. So what does that tell us about the utility of a breastfeeding doll or dolls in general?
I guess I just personally get annoyed by the whole "women are made to be mothers" thing that is so prevalent in our culture. I see this type of doll as just another piece of that sick puzzle. By choice, my wife and I may never have kids; you would not believe the amount of shit she gets when people ask her that. I have twin 6 year old nieces that are being raised in a very born-again Christian household; without going into detail, its clear they are being groomed to be mothers. Period. A doll that breastfeeds? Marketed so that little girls can "learnto breastfeed?"
Last I checked, breastfeeding was a natural instinct and last I checked, girls don't always end up as mothers. So why the need for a breast-feeding doll? I'm not concerned that this doll contributes to the sexualization of little girls (even saying that seems weird); I'm concerned that there's this perceived need to train little girls to be mothers, whether that means making sure they wear pink or making sure they play with the proper toys so they learn how to be good mothers etc, lest they grow up to be some horrible, barren spinster who never learned her proper role in society...whew...deep breath...
Maybe its just the feminist in me...and I'm really not looking for an argument, because I'm sure we probably agree more than we disagree. I just find this doll to be creepy.
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2023-09-15 Fenway 1
EXCELLENT post! I agree with you wholeheartedly - about the doll and about the female role in society. I've been married almost 6 years and you wouldn't believe the amount of crap we take because we don't have kids yet. To be honest, I'm not even sure I want to have any and when THAT little nugget leaves my mouth it's always someone saying "oh you'll change your mind". I'm 30 years old, pretty sure I'm not going to change my mind at this point and also just because it's right for some people doesn't mean it's right for everyone.
Ha sorry for the vent, but your post just sparked the feminist in me as well!
Word! Glad we're not the only ones dealing with that.
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I liked your post. But this isn't really true. Turns out it's much harder than it looks. (who'd have thought?) By the time the 8th different "lactation consultant" comes into the hospital room you're ready to take the baby and flee the damn place.
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The problem goes WAAAAAAAAY beyond a doll that mimics breastfeeding. The feminist that I am is PISSED that we constantly assign gender roles to children, boys play with guns, girls play with dolls. Boys wear blue, girls wear pink. I think children should be allowed to make believe in nurturing roles, no matter their gender, and marketers, and society as a whole places on them. I would not have a problem with a boy pretending to nurse his baby, wearing his baby, and doing all the things his mother does, just as a girl would. Children should be children first, and stopped being forced into specific societal roles. We can all benefit from children of both sexes that grow up learning to nurture, wether they end up as parents or not.
This doll has shown up on several blogs I follow, and the creepy comment comes always from the knucklehead that thinks breastfeeding is perverted. Thank you for clarifying that was not where your comment was made from.
True dat! It is hard, it takes a lot of support. Hospital "consultants" are usually just staff nurses that smash the baby's face into the boob and says "see, its easy, its natural." Please don't confuse them with certified, trained, compassionate peer counselers and Lactation Consultants.
Yes I see your point and I am all for Breastfeeding. I just think that bottle feeding is not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. My daughter who only fed for 10 weeks has always been very healthy, my son who I fed for 18 months was always sick, so who knows. One of the main reasons I fed my son for so long was because it was free and we were really struggling at the time.
Absolutely true loveontwolegs!!
perfect.
-my dad after hearing Not for You for the first time on SNL .
It is very hard to force children to play with or do things that they don't enjoy. My son might like to play with dolls and dress up like a fairy, but most of the time he likes to wrestle with his dad and ride his scooter or bike. My daughter may occasionally like to play with the matchbox cars but mostly I will find her playing with her Barbies. Teaching your children compassion at a young age is important and I would have no issue with either of my kids playing with a breastfeeding doll.
Rant over, sorry....
Its not a matter of "grooming girls to be mothers" vs. "allowing them to be cold-hearted career driven witches." Of course we should be raising children of all genders to be nurturing, loving and caring people. But that doesn't mean we can't also simultaneously encourage young girls to be strong, independent and confident members of society and CHOOSE their role for themselves. My point is that whether we use the right toys or dress our children one way or another, it shouldn't be an expectation that young girls need to "learn to be mothers" or that young girls need to do anything. We can raise them to be loving people without also reinforcing the gender role that they can only ever be a "subservient, doting mother." THAT was my point.
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