Australia now has a carbon tax....

Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
edited August 2011 in A Moving Train
Not good, everyone will now pay with higher prices on everything including electricity.
Carry on.....
I am out of here, I always end up receiving warnings when in AMT :lol:
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    They are trying to pass Cap and Trade in the US.
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    JuLIAR thinks Australia alone will stop global warming.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • JuLIAR thinks Australia alone will stop global warming.

    Invasive, over-reaching socialism knows no borders, my Aussie friend ;)
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • MikeackMikeack Posts: 562
    No such thing as carbon tax, its just good old fashioned TAX.
    ADVERTISE your business in my signature space. TOP RATES for limited time only!! lol
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    Mikeack wrote:
    No such thing as carbon tax, its just good old fashioned TAX.

    but-but-but JuLIAR said it is called putting a price on pollution :shock: :lol:
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    a 2.5 litre air conditioner currently costs 63 cents to run an hour.
    a46 cm plasma tv about 20 cents
    compare that to going to the movies at $15 a pop 2 hrs in the cool
    yet nobody complains the movies are too much.
    you may pay a few cents more but really ??????

    petrol here is $1.35 a litre or thereabouts
    a litre of coke is $2 at coles supermarket
    what do you think people complain about
    and its not the unhealthy optioon that rots your teeth. its the one that enables you to travel lonm\g distances whist sitting comfertably..

    How many tv's do you have your home, how many cars do you have parked in your drive.
    do we really need all this stuff.
    apparently we going to destroy our mining industry within a few years.
    funny how a international company wants to pay 4.6 billion for a mining company here 2 days after the tax was properly anounced.
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    and who the fuck cares that we are one of the few who are doing somthing about our emisions.
    australia was one of the few countries that came through the global financial meltdown reletively unscathed. we are in the middle of a boom in our recsourse sector. putting billions in our pocket.
    we are perfectly able to afford this action at this time.
    and even if the science may be wrong at least we will be polluting less.

    if you dont beleive we are pumping too much carbon into the atmoshere i suggest you attach a hose to your muffler, put the other end into your car and keep your windows up
    im sure that wont have any effect on the atmosphere in your car and on you and your family. just like the billions of cars globaly dont have any effect on the atmoshere of our wonderful home
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    what i love is we are going to be compensated for paying the carbon tax.. so my question is why bother? and i do not think that a carbon tax will slow industry from polluting.. theyll pay and then theyll pass it onto us. REJOICE!!! this tax is an example of doing nothing whilst being seen to do something. its bollocks.
    hear my name
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  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    what i love is we are going to be compensated for paying the carbon tax.. so my question is why bother? and i do not think that a carbon tax will slow industry from polluting.. theyll pay and then theyll pass it onto us. REJOICE!!! this tax is an example of doing nothing whilst being seen to do something. its bollocks.

    I agree.
    I was thinking this same.
    Gillard is assuming big polluters will look for ways to cut their emissions.
    I reckon they will just raise their prices.
    And the worst thing, Australia contributes no where near as much carbon, we are a small fish. China and the USA are the ones that need to cut their emissions.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003

    I agree.
    I was thinking this same.
    Gillard is assuming big polluters will look for ways to cut their emissions.
    I reckon they will just raise their prices.
    And the worst thing, Australia contributes no where near as much carbon, we are a small fish. China and the USA are the ones that need to cut their emissions.


    i just find it counter productive to impose this tax on us when they allow more roads to be built with no regard for alternatives.. when they allow bigger houses on smaller blocks in ever expanding residential developments without putting in place viable public transport systems... so people have no alternative but to drive their cars places.... when they dont put their money where their mouths are and truly support the push for alternate energy sources.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    Exactly.
    I don't know if this is true or not but aren't we now going to ship coal to China?
    If true, then the government is truly stupid.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • threefish10threefish10 Posts: 7,392
    we account for 1.9% of the worlds carbon out put, this tax hopes to lower that to 1.7%


    well fuck me, that is epic!


    we would not be having this carbon tax if her mining tax didn't fail miserably. she wanted to tax the mining industry, they told her to fuck off, so she comes up with this carbon tax to tax the top 500 polluters, most of which happen to be from what industry again? oh that's right, mining.

    but yeah a tax where they will give most of it back to compensate people for the higher prices the tax will cause makes fuck all sense to me. worst government ever.
    condescending and sarcastic since 1980
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    Worst government in my time.
    Bunch of clowns dictated to and under the control of that lunatic Bob Brown and his Greens party.
    I really hope an election is called early.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    we account for 1.9% of the worlds carbon out put, this tax hopes to lower that to 1.7%.

    but you only account for 0.3% of the world's population ...

    in any case - how do you folks propose a reduction in emissions?
  • threefish10threefish10 Posts: 7,392
    polaris_x wrote:
    but you only account for 0.3% of the world's population


    in any case - how do you folks propose a reduction in emissions?


    but the US accounts for 5% of the worlds population but 25% of all green house gas emissions. so i hardly see our almost 2% as being a major issue, and us cutting .2% is not gonna make a difference to emission or contribute to the big polluting countries in acting and cutting their emissions also. in Australia this is all about the government getting some tax money under the pretense of giving a shit about the environment.

    and volcanoes release more then 130 millions tonnes of carbon into the air every year, tax them.
    condescending and sarcastic since 1980
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    but the US accounts for 5% of the worlds population but 25% of all green house gas emissions. so i hardly see our almost 2% as being a major issue, and us cutting .2% is not gonna make a difference to emission or contribute to the big polluting countries in acting and cutting their emissions also. in Australia this is all about the government getting some tax money under the pretense of giving a shit about the environment.

    and volcanoes release more then 130 millions tonnes of carbon into the air every year, tax them.

    sure ... but that's passing the buck and not taking responsibility for your actions ... australia similar to canada and any other country can only worry about their own country ...

    again - if you don't like the tax nor think it will work ... what are your suggestions?
  • threefish10threefish10 Posts: 7,392
    polaris_x wrote:
    again - if you don't like the tax nor think it will work ... what are your suggestions?


    Well not being a climate scientist I have no idea of an alternative, but I can see that the way the Australian government has gone about this carbon tax is a load of bullshit. Like I said earlier, this tax is only happening due to the fact that our PM's "mining tax" failed epicly. So now she has introduced this carbon tax to raise the money that the mining tax would have earned her.

    Pre-election less then a year ago she stated several time "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead" so what happened in less then 12 months? Nothing, she needs money and the easiest way to do that without pissing off the masses is to introduce a tax disguised as an environment issue in the hopes that in this climate of environmental awareness she gets a pat on the back as if to be doing something to save the world when all she cares about is the cash it will get the government. But it would seem that everyone has seen through her weak environmental stance and he approval rating has plummeted to an all time low.

    But yeah as for the discussion of putting a price on carbon or alternative ideas is a whole different thing altogether. it goes back to the whole debate of climate change as a whole and if it is or is not a man made issue. Like I said above, volcanoes spew out a massive amount of carbon, other natural things like forest fires also produce a lot of carbon. Yes humans also produce a lot of carbon but I'm still not sure if I'm a believer or skeptic on the whole issue, I only really started looking into things recently since this carbon tax issue has sprung up here in the last month or so. so like I said I don't have any other ideas on alternatives for carbon pricing or if in fact it's needed at all.
    condescending and sarcastic since 1980
  • JK109224JK109224 Posts: 633
    The "climate change" debate is so confused. It should be an energy debate.

    Whether or not the world will be doomed by changing climate as a result of man-made pollution is irrelevant.

    Surely we understand that we need to shift the way we think about energy and the fundamental role it plays in our country's economy?

    Just because you believe that climate change is a natural occurance and "carbon pollution" is a con, why does that allow you to dismiss the move to a society that doesn't rely on coal and gas?

    I don't know for sure if "man made climate change" is "real". What I do know is that we're polluting the sh*t out of our environment and our current energy sources will run out - as in, gone - pretty soon in relative terms.

    The debate we should be having about developing an economy and an industry based around new energies has been hijacked by those that don't want changes purely for their own ideological or financial interests fighting against those who do want changes purely for their own ideological self-gratification.

    The whole "climate change debate" won't get anyone anywhere.

    Whether it's a Labor or a Liberal Government, one of them will come to the point where big calls need to be made about our energy use.

    Pretty sure this Carbon Tax isn't it though. Gillard is absolute rubbish, and Abbott is... Abbott. Shocking time in Aus politics.
    Come to send, not condescend...
  • threefish10threefish10 Posts: 7,392
    JK109224 wrote:
    Surely we understand that we need to shift the way we think about energy and the fundamental role it plays in our country's economy?


    smartest thing ever said. this is very true and what the whole issue should be about. if it was an "energy tax" like you said i think it would be a whole lot clearer and make a lot more sense. as i see it the carbon tax is not a real intensive for the big polluters to cut their carbon emission. they will still emit the same amount, but pass on the carbon price to us.
    condescending and sarcastic since 1980
  • JK109224JK109224 Posts: 633
    JK109224 wrote:
    Surely we understand that we need to shift the way we think about energy and the fundamental role it plays in our country's economy?


    smartest thing ever said. this is very true and what the whole issue should be about. if it was an "energy tax" like you said i think it would be a whole lot clearer and make a lot more sense. as i see it the carbon tax is not a real intensive for the big polluters to cut their carbon emission. they will still emit the same amount, but pass on the carbon price to us.

    I think it will encourage big polluters to emit less, but it is overall relatively insignificant. The policy has little to do with "reducing carbon emissions" and all to do with setting Australia up when attitudes towards energy shift. The end goal of the Carbon Tax, IMO, is fine, but the mechanism and selling of the policy is completely mental.
    Come to send, not condescend...
  • JK109224JK109224 Posts: 633
    As soon as I found out that 500 of the biggest Australian businesses would be taxed heavily, but "3 million Australian's would be financially better off" I had a chuckle.

    Would just rather they say "Yep, it's an energy tax, we need to shift our thinking or we'll be farked in 50 years, you'll all pay a bit more for shit" than a complex explanation of wealth redistribution.
    Come to send, not condescend...
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    How does a tax do anything to help the environment?

    All I see it doing is giving more money and power to the government and removing freedoms from people.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    know1 wrote:
    How does a tax do anything to help the environment?

    All I see it doing is giving more money and power to the government and removing freedoms from people.

    you pay taxes now to have your garbage picked up ... in many places - you have to pay more if you produce significantly more garbage ... this is similar ...

    honestly, in essence i agree that it would be great if gov't did not need to get involved ... but people are selfish in nature and sadly, these are the only methods currently that seems to work ...

    clearly telling people of global warming and it's effects is not enough to drive change ...
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    polaris_x wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    How does a tax do anything to help the environment?

    All I see it doing is giving more money and power to the government and removing freedoms from people.

    you pay taxes now to have your garbage picked up ... in many places - you have to pay more if you produce significantly more garbage ... this is similar ...

    honestly, in essence i agree that it would be great if gov't did not need to get involved ... but people are selfish in nature and sadly, these are the only methods currently that seems to work ...

    clearly telling people of global warming and it's effects is not enough to drive change ...

    My point is: What is the government doing with those extra tax dollars to prevent climate change or help the environment. Or is it just a punishment for living?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    know1 wrote:
    My point is: What is the government doing with those extra tax dollars to prevent climate change or help the environment. Or is it just a punishment for living?

    it's a deterrent to polluting ... but feel free to interpret it as your eyes see it ...

    global warming has consequences, air pollution has consequences ... i would hope the gov't would take those funds and help australia use less fossil fuels ... they could do that by subsidizing home renovations, energy audits, investing in renewables ... etc ...

    i dunno what they will actually do but that is what i would do ...
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    polaris_x wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    My point is: What is the government doing with those extra tax dollars to prevent climate change or help the environment. Or is it just a punishment for living?

    it's a deterrent to polluting ... but feel free to interpret it as your eyes see it ...

    global warming has consequences, air pollution has consequences ... i would hope the gov't would take those funds and help australia use less fossil fuels ... they could do that by subsidizing home renovations, energy audits, investing in renewables ... etc ...

    i dunno what they will actually do but that is what i would do ...

    how can it be a deterrant to polluting when industry as a big polluter will just pass the price onto us?

    maybe someone said it previously(i cant be bothered going back and checking) the gillard govt is bringing this tax in cause her proposed mining tax got murdered in its sleep.

    and yes i agree, the tax collected should go to sustainable energies and subsidising technologies for those who want to go green. but theirs no guarantee that it will. this government has shown us nothing that would give us cause to believe that will happen. in the past few years theyve given us an insulation batts initiative and a solar energy initiative and in both cases the safety of homeowners was put in jeopardy.. in fact people died cause the government just handed out money to not entirely reputable companies to do the work, the majority of which was substandard, and they werent monitored. so youll have to forgive us if we have zero faith in our federal government for anything that has to do with environmental issues and how to 'fix' the problem.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    $4m mail-out coming soon to your letterbox, a brochure explaining carbon tax facts

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/m-mail ... 6103691550

    I'll be marking it with "return to sender" and dropping it back into the mailbox :)
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    how can it be a deterrant to polluting when industry as a big polluter will just pass the price onto us?

    maybe someone said it previously(i cant be bothered going back and checking) the gillard govt is bringing this tax in cause her proposed mining tax got murdered in its sleep.

    and yes i agree, the tax collected should go to sustainable energies and subsidising technologies for those who want to go green. but theirs no guarantee that it will. this government has shown us nothing that would give us cause to believe that will happen. in the past few years theyve given us an insulation batts initiative and a solar energy initiative and in both cases the safety of homeowners was put in jeopardy.. in fact people died cause the government just handed out money to not entirely reputable companies to do the work, the majority of which was substandard, and they werent monitored. so youll have to forgive us if we have zero faith in our federal government for anything that has to do with environmental issues and how to 'fix' the problem.

    it's a deterrent because even if the polluters pass that cost to the consumer ... at some point, the added cost will make the consumers consider using less of it ... that's the principle idea here ... i'm not saying your gov't will do what is right with it ... all i'm saying in theory - it's the simplest way of trying to reduce emissions ... if anyone has any other ideas - i'm all ears ...
  • threefish10threefish10 Posts: 7,392
    polaris_x wrote:
    it's a deterrent because even if the polluters pass that cost to the consumer ... at some point, the added cost will make the consumers consider using less of it ... that's the principle idea here ... i'm not saying your gov't will do what is right with it ... all i'm saying in theory - it's the simplest way of trying to reduce emissions ... if anyone has any other ideas - i'm all ears ...


    but how can consumers use less food and other essentials like that? the flow on effect of passing the the price of carbon onto consumers will effect alot of everyday things that are just unavoidable to use less of. so in the end again it's the everyday people and families who will be effected most by this tax, not the big polluters.
    condescending and sarcastic since 1980
  • ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    I would like to see advance in the economy towards . regioinal foods being cheaper.
    sure fishy the price of an apple or orange cost will rise generally because of transport costs.
    the way at present we produce food is pretty wastefull.
    an orchard in my region will produce an amount of fruit, this fruit is then trucke to a major distribution point, generally frozen then shipped out to supermarkets in other regions and my own region where the fruit came from. sure the carbon price should and will affect that price.
    but what about what i do at present. tomorrow morning I will rise early grab my big bag and head down to the farmers markets. the prices are great but the freshness and quality is the reason I go.
    My cooking and the families diet love this type of thing.
    If you want the convenience of supermarkets, well pay the cost of transport and the pollution it creates.
    there are other options, even growing your own if you have the room.
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
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