Australia now has a carbon tax....

Thoughts_Arrive

Not good, everyone will now pay with higher prices on everything including electricity.
Carry on.....
I am out of here, I always end up receiving warnings when in AMT

unsung

They are trying to pass Cap and Trade in the US.

Thoughts_Arrive

JuLIAR thinks Australia alone will stop global warming.

Electric_Delta

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

JuLIAR thinks Australia alone will stop global warming.

Invasive, over-reaching socialism knows no borders, my Aussie friend

Mikeack

No such thing as carbon tax, its just good old fashioned TAX.

Thoughts_Arrive

Mikeack wrote:

No such thing as carbon tax, its just good old fashioned TAX.

but-but-but JuLIAR said it is called putting a price on pollution :shock:

ONCE DEVIDED

a 2.5 litre air conditioner currently costs 63 cents to run an hour.
a46 cm plasma tv about 20 cents
compare that to going to the movies at $15 a pop 2 hrs in the cool
yet nobody complains the movies are too much.
you may pay a few cents more but really ??????

petrol here is $1.35 a litre or thereabouts
a litre of coke is $2 at coles supermarket
what do you think people complain about
and its not the unhealthy optioon that rots your teeth. its the one that enables you to travel lonm\g distances whist sitting comfertably..

How many tv's do you have your home, how many cars do you have parked in your drive.
do we really need all this stuff.
apparently we going to destroy our mining industry within a few years.
funny how a international company wants to pay 4.6 billion for a mining company here 2 days after the tax was properly anounced.

ONCE DEVIDED

and who the fuck cares that we are one of the few who are doing somthing about our emisions.
australia was one of the few countries that came through the global financial meltdown reletively unscathed. we are in the middle of a boom in our recsourse sector. putting billions in our pocket.
we are perfectly able to afford this action at this time.
and even if the science may be wrong at least we will be polluting less.

if you dont beleive we are pumping too much carbon into the atmoshere i suggest you attach a hose to your muffler, put the other end into your car and keep your windows up
im sure that wont have any effect on the atmosphere in your car and on you and your family. just like the billions of cars globaly dont have any effect on the atmoshere of our wonderful home

catefrances

what i love is we are going to be compensated for paying the carbon tax.. so my question is why bother? and i do not think that a carbon tax will slow industry from polluting.. theyll pay and then theyll pass it onto us. REJOICE!!! this tax is an example of doing nothing whilst being seen to do something. its bollocks.

Thoughts_Arrive

catefrances wrote:

what i love is we are going to be compensated for paying the carbon tax.. so my question is why bother? and i do not think that a carbon tax will slow industry from polluting.. theyll pay and then theyll pass it onto us. REJOICE!!! this tax is an example of doing nothing whilst being seen to do something. its bollocks.

I agree.
I was thinking this same.
Gillard is assuming big polluters will look for ways to cut their emissions.
I reckon they will just raise their prices.
And the worst thing, Australia contributes no where near as much carbon, we are a small fish. China and the USA are the ones that need to cut their emissions.

catefrances

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

I agree.
I was thinking this same.
Gillard is assuming big polluters will look for ways to cut their emissions.
I reckon they will just raise their prices.
And the worst thing, Australia contributes no where near as much carbon, we are a small fish. China and the USA are the ones that need to cut their emissions.

i just find it counter productive to impose this tax on us when they allow more roads to be built with no regard for alternatives.. when they allow bigger houses on smaller blocks in ever expanding residential developments without putting in place viable public transport systems... so people have no alternative but to drive their cars places.... when they dont put their money where their mouths are and truly support the push for alternate energy sources.

Thoughts_Arrive

Exactly.
I don't know if this is true or not but aren't we now going to ship coal to China?
If true, then the government is truly stupid.

threefish10

we account for 1.9% of the worlds carbon out put, this tax hopes to lower that to 1.7%


well fuck me, that is epic!


we would not be having this carbon tax if her mining tax didn't fail miserably. she wanted to tax the mining industry, they told her to fuck off, so she comes up with this carbon tax to tax the top 500 polluters, most of which happen to be from what industry again? oh that's right, mining.

but yeah a tax where they will give most of it back to compensate people for the higher prices the tax will cause makes fuck all sense to me. worst government ever.

Thoughts_Arrive

Worst government in my time.
Bunch of clowns dictated to and under the control of that lunatic Bob Brown and his Greens party.
I really hope an election is called early.

polaris_x

threefish10 wrote:

we account for 1.9% of the worlds carbon out put, this tax hopes to lower that to 1.7%.

but you only account for 0.3% of the world's population ...

in any case - how do you folks propose a reduction in emissions?

threefish10

polaris_x wrote:

but you only account for 0.3% of the world's population


in any case - how do you folks propose a reduction in emissions?

but the US accounts for 5% of the worlds population but 25% of all green house gas emissions. so i hardly see our almost 2% as being a major issue, and us cutting .2% is not gonna make a difference to emission or contribute to the big polluting countries in acting and cutting their emissions also. in Australia this is all about the government getting some tax money under the pretense of giving a shit about the environment.

and volcanoes release more then 130 millions tonnes of carbon into the air every year, tax them.

polaris_x

threefish10 wrote:

but the US accounts for 5% of the worlds population but 25% of all green house gas emissions. so i hardly see our almost 2% as being a major issue, and us cutting .2% is not gonna make a difference to emission or contribute to the big polluting countries in acting and cutting their emissions also. in Australia this is all about the government getting some tax money under the pretense of giving a shit about the environment.

and volcanoes release more then 130 millions tonnes of carbon into the air every year, tax them.

sure ... but that's passing the buck and not taking responsibility for your actions ... australia similar to canada and any other country can only worry about their own country ...

again - if you don't like the tax nor think it will work ... what are your suggestions?

threefish10

polaris_x wrote:

again - if you don't like the tax nor think it will work ... what are your suggestions?

Well not being a climate scientist I have no idea of an alternative, but I can see that the way the Australian government has gone about this carbon tax is a load of bullshit. Like I said earlier, this tax is only happening due to the fact that our PM's "mining tax" failed epicly. So now she has introduced this carbon tax to raise the money that the mining tax would have earned her.

Pre-election less then a year ago she stated several time "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead" so what happened in less then 12 months? Nothing, she needs money and the easiest way to do that without pissing off the masses is to introduce a tax disguised as an environment issue in the hopes that in this climate of environmental awareness she gets a pat on the back as if to be doing something to save the world when all she cares about is the cash it will get the government. But it would seem that everyone has seen through her weak environmental stance and he approval rating has plummeted to an all time low.

But yeah as for the discussion of putting a price on carbon or alternative ideas is a whole different thing altogether. it goes back to the whole debate of climate change as a whole and if it is or is not a man made issue. Like I said above, volcanoes spew out a massive amount of carbon, other natural things like forest fires also produce a lot of carbon. Yes humans also produce a lot of carbon but I'm still not sure if I'm a believer or skeptic on the whole issue, I only really started looking into things recently since this carbon tax issue has sprung up here in the last month or so. so like I said I don't have any other ideas on alternatives for carbon pricing or if in fact it's needed at all.

JK109224

The "climate change" debate is so confused. It should be an energy debate.

Whether or not the world will be doomed by changing climate as a result of man-made pollution is irrelevant.

Surely we understand that we need to shift the way we think about energy and the fundamental role it plays in our country's economy?

Just because you believe that climate change is a natural occurance and "carbon pollution" is a con, why does that allow you to dismiss the move to a society that doesn't rely on coal and gas?

I don't know for sure if "man made climate change" is "real". What I do know is that we're polluting the sh*t out of our environment and our current energy sources will run out - as in, gone - pretty soon in relative terms.

The debate we should be having about developing an economy and an industry based around new energies has been hijacked by those that don't want changes purely for their own ideological or financial interests fighting against those who do want changes purely for their own ideological self-gratification.

The whole "climate change debate" won't get anyone anywhere.

Whether it's a Labor or a Liberal Government, one of them will come to the point where big calls need to be made about our energy use.

Pretty sure this Carbon Tax isn't it though. Gillard is absolute rubbish, and Abbott is... Abbott. Shocking time in Aus politics.

threefish10

JK109224 wrote:

Surely we understand that we need to shift the way we think about energy and the fundamental role it plays in our country's economy?

smartest thing ever said. this is very true and what the whole issue should be about. if it was an "energy tax" like you said i think it would be a whole lot clearer and make a lot more sense. as i see it the carbon tax is not a real intensive for the big polluters to cut their carbon emission. they will still emit the same amount, but pass on the carbon price to us.

JK109224

threefish10 wrote:

JK109224 wrote:

Surely we understand that we need to shift the way we think about energy and the fundamental role it plays in our country's economy?

smartest thing ever said. this is very true and what the whole issue should be about. if it was an "energy tax" like you said i think it would be a whole lot clearer and make a lot more sense. as i see it the carbon tax is not a real intensive for the big polluters to cut their carbon emission. they will still emit the same amount, but pass on the carbon price to us.

I think it will encourage big polluters to emit less, but it is overall relatively insignificant. The policy has little to do with "reducing carbon emissions" and all to do with setting Australia up when attitudes towards energy shift. The end goal of the Carbon Tax, IMO, is fine, but the mechanism and selling of the policy is completely mental.