Farewell...
inlet13
Posts: 1,979
I stopped and boarded this train as part of a social experiment. My hypothesis was that MT members, would enjoy a different viewpoint from the normal liberal one posted here. From studying the qualitative data, and doing some hard analysis, I've learned that I was wrong. It was a dumb-ass hypothesis.
I've realized that it's easy to get sucked into this stuff, and I don't want to do that. There's nothing gained from it in my opinion.... but, maybe I'm wrong. So, this will be my last thread here for some time. I depart with hopes of never returning to this section of PJ.com, but who knows. Before I go... I leave you with several questions:
1) Why do you post here?
2) What do you do while you are posting here? Do you have a job?
3) Do you really think you're changing anyone's minds?
4) If you don't really think you're opinion is changing anyone's minds, repeat question 1? If you think you are changing people's minds, how does that make you feel? Why does it make you feel that way?
In all seriousness, it's been fun. I'll respond if I can, but I'm otherwise outta here, grabbing my board at 4PM and headed to the beach. So, enjoy.
-inlet13
I've realized that it's easy to get sucked into this stuff, and I don't want to do that. There's nothing gained from it in my opinion.... but, maybe I'm wrong. So, this will be my last thread here for some time. I depart with hopes of never returning to this section of PJ.com, but who knows. Before I go... I leave you with several questions:
1) Why do you post here?
2) What do you do while you are posting here? Do you have a job?
3) Do you really think you're changing anyone's minds?
4) If you don't really think you're opinion is changing anyone's minds, repeat question 1? If you think you are changing people's minds, how does that make you feel? Why does it make you feel that way?
In all seriousness, it's been fun. I'll respond if I can, but I'm otherwise outta here, grabbing my board at 4PM and headed to the beach. So, enjoy.
-inlet13
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Comments
Peace. Catch a wave for me. All our waves have oil on them.
I find it interesting, since I own a house, commute, have an 11 month old baby, I don't have a whole lot of time to debate with people face to face. I enjoy talking about politics and also having my opinions challenged.
I don't necessarily think it has changed anyone's mind but changing minds isn't really my goal...bringing a different view point to those in a calm and collective way is my goal...they can do whatever they want with the information...I also like reminding myself of my liberal roots. I used to share many liberal points of view and even voted democrat, but as I have changed my views it is nice to be reminded where I came from. It is important to have your views and perceptions of the world challenged...I think this board has helped cement my change to a much more libertarian view point...
And a lot of the liberals on the board do want to get a conservative view point on debates, they just don't want to be talked down to...(not saying you did)...and I feel the same way...I want a liberal view point but I don't want people to call me selfish and stupid because I don't share the line of thinking...
you should stick around if you have the time, it is nice to have more people voicing how they look at the world...but if you must leave go, we don't like quitters around here...liberal, conservative or in between
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I could've told you that at the beginning.
Science and GOP don't mix. Especially social experiments.
Like you,they usually take their ball and go home.
Would you like to know why America's economy is in the shitter? It's pretty simple really. You want to spend trillions fighting needless wars and no one wants to pay any taxes. You don't need to be an economy major to figure out that math.
Here's a few questions for you? How is Germany's economy doing? How is Canada's economy doing?
2. yeah ... i usually post when i'm at work ... primarily when my computer is processing a large query or running a long script that can take upwards of 30 minutes ...
3. i think there are a lot of people who lurk who have a much more open mind than the people who post regularly who digest the various points through much less tainted eyes and i think they get a lot out of it ... i also do think that periodically, our viewpoints do change one's opinion ...
4. i would say minds do get changed ... whether they are by me is irrelevant ... i think these issues are critically important to life ... and in this day and age where much of our information (much like our food) has been overly processed and manipulated, it's important to hear different opinions and to digest it critically ... i think too many people read something that suits their ideology and accepts it as truth ... some may accuse me of that - which is fine, but which is also the reason i post here to try and show that it's more than me taking everything i read at say a website like democracynow.org or something and just posting it and agreeing ...
i personally think this forum is fantastic and it's because of the differing opinions ... the personal insults are uncalled for ... i do think many people come here and aren't used to debating publicly and often resort to these kind of insults without truly knowing the impact ... also, i think too many people take things way too personally on here ... it's ok to have different opinions ...
i would hate to see the many (and there are a lot of ya) conservatives on this board go away ... it would be tragic but the people that post here often and regularly - i think we've developed a general understanding of behaviour and respect ...
it does irk me a bit that other members on other aspects of this forum slag us when i think the reality is that we are much more civilized and respectful of one another than we are given credit for ...
as for your continued presence on this aspect of the board ... i think you should stay and continue to offer your insights ... but like all of us - you have to be prepared to take criticism and opposing viewpoints when you share yours ... it's part of the deal ...
The "left" isn't much better because their social ideas are hardly liberal and Obama is still racking up the bodies and billions of dollars fighting wars that just happen to be on top of huge oil reserves. I see the police state growing under both regimes, maybe even more so with the left because they will never defund a police department under the guise of fear. Social freedoms aren't much better and are thrown in the trash heap either way, with the exception of abortion (which IS despicable and the least worthy freedom to fight for) and a few other pretentious causes that seem to be mostly about ostentatious self-flattery and a narrow world-view that leads to ham-fisted pragmatism.
I started a thread a few weeks ago about not using labels like conservative and liberal to blanket your view or others' views on the world. These labels are nonsense because 1) you immediately define yourself and others based on these labels then you've got yourself and others completely "figured out" and 2) they're meaningless and idiotic groups to belong to.
Identifying with one group here would be torturous... you're not listening to anyone or really debating anything... you are here to talk to others about your undeniably correct perspective on the world, not to speak with others about an incredibly complex fucked-up world and how we can go about fixing it. It seems the latter would be a more appropriate use of our (and my) time.
Inlet, we accept your graceful acknowledgment of defeat (teasing).
My reasoning for coming to this board was to help get other points of view and also to torture myself.
Really, the key thing is to avoid trolls (you can add them as a "foe" so their posts are not displayed) and to avoid insults (not always easy). There were quite a few on here that drove me nuts at first but now I understand their opinions and it's fun to debate with them (as long as Israel isn't in the topic :twisted: ).
I am usually working when I post. Its usually between tasks and waiting for my computer to finish rendering video files for particular jobs.
I don’t care about changing peoples minds. I do like to stand up for particular things I believe in. Although, some people in here have changed my mind about a few things, or helped me to learn more about different views on certain topics. Obviously there are a lot of media outlets that are biased and this is a good place to hear several angles. Also, I like to see how people think and why they came to their conclusions. For instance, I cannot support abortion on a personal level, but I do think that it’s a choice left up to the woman who is pregnant. Or, there are many debates on govt assistance or welfare, and though I am aware that the system is flawed and could use an overhaul, I don’t like how some people don’t think its good for anything.
Regarding your question #4, I see what you’re trying to say… I’ll bet a lot of people would be happy if they could convince people to think like them.. I’d really like it if “creationism” was left for dead and people agreed with me on that because I am adamant, but at the same time, I like the opposition. It forces us to think about our decisions and analyze why we came to that position, as opposed to just doing it because it was the only choice.
Bottom line is, although I disagree with a lot of your opinions, I do enjoy reading your posts and topics and seeing you interact with people. I try to be in the middle on things in here, (im not a liberal/dem or a conservative/republican…so I don’t comment a lot because I am in the middle) but I do see several people who lean right who feel ganged up on and criticize certain opposite opinions as illegitimate or use comments like (seriously, not to be a dick, but to point out why people might get hostile towards you) you said: “realize they are wrong about their pro-left stance later on, once they grow up and learn about the world”..that comes off smug and elitist. But unless you post in here a lot, its easy to let things like that slip out. I honestly dont think its a big deal but it can put pepole up in arms...You just have to be careful how you word things sometimes.
And btw, from a fellow surfer, have fun out in the waves and come back to the train man!
Liberals, keynesian economics, and obama....................you pretty much nailed it right on the head!
Also, i don't believe germany or canada spent close to a trillion dollars bailing out ceo's and throwing billions around to different states that has done nothing. That might have something to do with it. But lets not blame that on Obama......he was too busy killing OBL
1) in the begening because I am a PJ fan but now I ride the train just for a good laugh...honest !
but really enjoy the poetry section.
2) job...check,here right now
3)changing minds is not my intention.
4) ask Byrnzie he's been a thorn in my side for ever but the little....is always right so guy's like Byrnzie Gimmi Inmytree Cate Chadwick Cosmo and a few others are good to learn from and the rest make me smile,IT'S GREAT !!!!.
Godfather.
I disagree with you often, but I respect your taste in movies (as evidenced by your avatar).
Nicely done, my friend!
To address your questions, I think our primary motivation for reading and posting here should be to learn. Even if we don't agree in the end, we can always learn.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
Sorry that I called you a troll Inlet, but your behavior in that thread, in my opinion, was similar to someone who would come on here with the sole intention of baiting people. I was probably wrong. Loosen up and don't take the MT so seriously nor personally.
Because it is fun... and work can get boring... specifically when you are rebuilding materialized views that draw millions of lines of data from remote sources. Plus, it gives me the opportunity to question people who actually get their opinions and truths from cable 'news' broadcasts.
2) What do you do while you are posting here? Do you have a job?
Read words, type words.
Yes.
3) Do you really think you're changing anyone's minds?
No. Only a complete idiot thinks debate, specifically hot topics such as politics and religion, is going to 'change anyone's ideas'. Discussion is expession of ideas and the reasons why you have reach the opinions you have reached.
4) If you don't really think you're opinion is changing anyone's minds, repeat question 1? If you think you are changing people's minds, how does that make you feel? Why does it make you feel that way?
Read answer in Number 3.
I am not changing anyone's mind... that is not my objective. My point it to counter commentary with opinons that were formed on data that contradicts the opposing view. It has nothing to do about 'feelings' unless you are a complete nimrod.
How does providing unbiased data from a base source, rather than an article with a biased slant makes me feel? Well, good. I think it is much better to provide a link from the U.S. Library of Congress to the actual bill that is being reviewed, than quoting Glenn Beck or Rachel Maddow. Let you make the call, rather than making the call based on someone else's view.
...
Now... a question for you:
There's surf in Philly?
Hail, Hail!!!
I wouldn't go that far my friend
I have my...'moments'
It's educational, and fun. Debating subjects forces you to check the facts and research various topics, and in doing so you learn a great deal. I.e, I've learned more about the I/P issue from posting here than I would otherwise have done. This place is one of the places I come to for news, and including the AET and 'Other Music', I've been exposed to stuff - movies, music, books, articles, e.t.c - that I wouldn't have been exposed to anywhere else.
2) What do you do while you are posting here? Do you have a job?
I used to be most active here when I worked in an office in London - to the annoyance of my then Boss, but now I only work in the evenings and so have a lot of free time during the day for things such as this.
3) Do you really think you're changing anyone's minds?
Yes. If I didn't, then why would I bother engaging anybody on any subject? We're all 'here' to break new ground and move forward, are we not? Otherwise we could all just click that X in the top right corner of the page and go watch t.v instead.
4) If you don't really think you're opinion is changing anyone's minds, repeat question 1? If you think you are changing people's minds, how does that make you feel? Why does it make you feel that way?
I don't like to be told I'm right - I don't take praise well. So I'd rather not think about the effects my efforts have on other people's opinions. We all have a duty to respect the facts, and to not be swayed by idiots just because they happen to be on t.v, or a radio show.
Like I said above, I learn more myself in these debates because they force me to do my homework, and so I like being challenged because it forces me to search for the facts, and in doing so I often stumble across some great stuff. And I get a kick out of that.
Reminds me of a "Rockford Files" I saw once where this guy is doing social experiements and some trouble ensues. Probably not going to be a problem like that here!
But since you asked:
1) Because the other band site I visit doesn't do political stuff. Thought it mind be interesting her at PJ forum.
2) Yeah, I have a job. Working hard into my old age. Self employed= no retirement. From time to time this is a much needed diversion.
3) Change Your Mind? Yes, great Neil Young song. But seriously- maybe. I'm the old fart on this board. Not necessarily smarter than any one, but I bet I've been around the block a few more times.
4) Can't answer this. When I worked in counseling I refused it use the phrase "you make me feel". Can I make you give me $1,000?
I almost don't blame you for ditching MT. It's beginning to sound like we're all the same people saying the same thing over and over and no one changing anyone's mind. But I do believe in change. I believe in social justice and earth justice. Doesn't matter how old I get. I'll never loose sight of those goals. Conservation minded- yes. Social activist- yes. More and more so. Never will give that up.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It's one of my favourite pastimes. :P
Pulp Fiction ?
Godfather.
Remember when America was the best country in the world? Well not anymore. While your citizens starve in the streets and lose their homes because they have cancer, your government continues to spend billions waging war all over the world.
Keep it up...That old chant "we're number 1...we're number 1" is quickly becoming " we're number 12....we're number 13"
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I just wanna know how the waves in Philly are. Maybe that's why Eddie likes going there!
while I don't agree with US foreign policy, I have to admit, that the reason most first world countries don't spend trillions on "saving the world" is because we don't have to. the US does that for us. we may not like the results all the time, but hey, if the US didn't have the "war mongering" policies that it does, Canada may not have the social benefits that it does, as we'd have to spend money on our own military.
and to answer inlet, I come here for one thing and one thing only. to learn. if all I wanted to do was change someone's mind and "be right", then I'd have a sex change.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
which is why I don't comment on MT that much anymore!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
sorry, dude, but that's kinda silly. people are here to learn and debate. we enjoy all viewpoints, otherwise, what's the point of any of it?
this isn't the first thread like this, and I'm sure it won't be the last. I get annoyed at the whining of "liberals don't want to hear anything they don't agree with, so I'm outta here". It sounds more the opposite. I don't hear any lib's on here bitching about republican viewpoints, and not being able to change their minds.
you know going in it's going to be a liberal majority on here, and people try to "change the climate", and when that fails (it would be the same result in the reverse, I'm convinced), they run away crying.
FYI: I'M NOT DEMOCRAT. I'M NOT REPUBLICAN. I'M CANADIAN. I VOTE POLICY, NOT PARTY.
stick to your guns and call it as you see it. any adult with any respect for another's opinion will appreciate the conversation.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014