2. The problem was with the diner guest’s creepy over reaction to the child being cute.
3. The article goes on to speak against the ills of putting too much value on ones appearance, yet, the fact that the diner guest, judged that child’s intellect by her own reaction to the child’s appearance, to the point, she felt the need to see if there was a brain behind that cute face was even more disturbing.
4. The message this article seems to send is
a) You don’t have to be cute to be smart
b) If you’re cute, you have to Prove to people you’re smart
I found the article irritating because, it continued to promote the cycle of females having to PROVE themselves.
Would there had been an article of this type had the child been a ‘cute’ 2 year old boy? What intellectual test would he have to have passed?
I can agree with your points.
My boy is almost 2. People call him cute/handsome all the time. Someone even once said, "If he were older..." :wtf: Then they say he's really big for his age, and ask if he can talk, if he's walking, is he using a big boy this or that, is he potty trained, can he recognize letters and numbers...it's like a dog doing tricks. I do find it irritating, I have to PROVE my parenting all the time.
We are damned if we do and if we don't.
So...I hope that I teach him to be good, kind and respectful to others, regardless of their brains or beauty.
2. The problem was with the diner guest’s creepy over reaction to the child being cute.
3. The article goes on to speak against the ills of putting too much value on ones appearance, yet, the fact that the diner guest, judged that child’s intellect by her own reaction to the child’s appearance, to the point, she felt the need to see if there was a brain behind that cute face was even more disturbing.
4. The message this article seems to send is
a) You don’t have to be cute to be smart
b) If you’re cute, you have to Prove to people you’re smart
I found the article irritating because, it continued to promote the cycle of females having to PROVE themselves.
Would there had been an article of this type had the child been a ‘cute’ 2 year old boy? What intellectual test would he have to have passed?
Thanks for the interesting read Shimmy. I don't think I can help it though, I will always think my daughter is the most beautiful girl in the whole world and I don't think I can ever stop saying it to her. However, I will always tell her how clever she is and funny she is too! I know, my little girl is going to have one massive ego but I love that!
I was shy and quiet and I felt like I missed alot of opportunities because of it so a massively confident child is okay with me.
“ "Thank you Palestrina. It’s a wonderful evening, it’s great to be here and I wanna dedicate you a super sexy song." " (last words of Mark Sandman of Morphine)
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
Thanks for the interesting read Shimmy. I don't think I can help it though, I will always think my daughter is the most beautiful girl in the whole world and I don't think I can ever stop saying it to her. However, I will always tell her how clever she is and funny she is too! I know, my little girl is going to have one massive ego but I love that!
I was shy and quiet and I felt like I missed alot of opportunities because of it so a massively confident child is okay with me.
Loulou, It's what good parents do. We encourage, engage and love our children by recognizing all the good things about them. It's when we focus on what they aren't so great at, that we hurt them the most.
I am glad this thread has people talking. I love hearing everyone's perspective. Thank you all.
I have several problems with it. Firstly - who on earth does the author think she is, saying that she changed that little girl's perspective, at least for that night? She said that was the first time she met this particular child - how is it possible that in the short space of an evening she has gleaned from the child what her perspective on ANYTHING is? Trust me on this - a five year old child is a fickle instrument at best - what their perspective is, depends on many, many, many factors, least of which would be a friend of her parents asking her to read a book with her.
Second is probably the fact that although I DO believe society places women's looks way too high on the priority scale, the author clearly has little to no interaction with young children, let alone females. If she did, she would understand that society plays a smaller role than immediate family and peers within a child's life. YES, children, especially girls, are given unrealistic stereotypes that the media says we should live up to - but it is the parents responsibility to ensure that children are well balanced and adjusted, and understand that the whole of a person comes from everything they are, not from what they look like. YES, it's hard, but not as hard as this woman is making out.
For the record, I have 4 children, 3 of them are girls. One is still a little girl at 9, another is a relatively young 12, and the eldest is 13 (going on 21). They all have different personalities, they all are beautiful. Yes, I tell them that. I see absolutely no harm in telling them they are beautiful people, both inside AND out. They have extremely healthy self esteem. They read, they watch tv, they talk to their friends. They understand that the images they see on the television, in movies, in magazines are not realistic expectations of women, and they are ok with that.
Do I talk to them about things other than their looks? Yes, obviously. WHo doesn't? My biggest problem with this article, is the way the author assumes people talk to girls that way. Have I ever asked a girl about her hair, or her looks, or stupid stuff like that? Perhaps a new haircut may have come into conversation, maybe commenting on an article of clothing "Oh, I love that, I would so wear that, I wish they made it in my size!" Is it ok to say to a FIVE YEAR OLD girl - " Oh, you are SO cute"? Yes, it's perfectly fine. Should an entire conversation with ANY child, boy OR girl, revolve around superficial things? No. It's stupid to think that very many people do that. Only people who have little to no experience with children talk like that.
That's my problem with this article. Children grow up healthy inside AND out, when they have people around them who love them, and let them be who they want to be. When you are nurtured and loved, you feel beautiful, and it shows. Telling a girl she is beautiful is not a bad thing.
If every person told every child they were beautiful, there would be no self esteem issues in regards to the way people look. It's a very simple equation - love your child, nurture everything they do, have common sense, and do your absolute best to pass it on. SIMPLE. People should stop overthinking the way children are raised.
It's when we focus on what they aren't so great at, that we hurt them the most.
Hmmm...strongly disagree with this. That is what parenting is. The teaching moments. NO problem with that, again, it's all in the delivery and purpose.
It's when we focus on what they aren't so great at, that we hurt them the most.
Hmmm...strongly disagree with this. That is what parenting is. The teaching moments. NO problem with that, again, it's all in the delivery and purpose.
It's when we focus on what they aren't so great at, that we hurt them the most.
Hmmm...strongly disagree with this. That is what parenting is. The teaching moments. NO problem with that, again, it's all in the delivery and purpose.
You are absolutely right. It's how you nurture the child during what is not the best moment at the time is very important.
I am sorry. I did a terrible job explaining my thought there. I was pathetically trying to say: When a parent focuses on a not great moment in a negative or destructive way, it's not nurturing them, it's hurting them.
stardust1976, GREAT response. Completely agreed with you on all your points. Jeanwah is right, best quote in this thread :
People should stop overthinking the way children are raised.
Having been a Nanny for five years once upon a time.. I have found THIS with kids:
1. at first meeting allow the child draw you into the conversation of their choice, it will always be something different for each child, and NEVER feign interest, but listen intently.. you may be suprised at what you learn.
2. NEVER talk "down" to children, they pick up on this right away, and consider it a very severe form of rejection. The more often you do this the more the child begins to resent you, and see you as an enemy.
3. Discuss outward appearance, as needed, but never more, especially in younger children. As in, most young children need to be reminded to be presentable, because at this young age, they really, honestly, don't care! However when a child goes to great lengths to dress nicely, it is more than acceptable to make verbal note of it.
4. there is nothing of greater influence on a child than leading by example.. As in, if a little girl sees that her mother gets up umpteen hours early just to make herself "presentable" to the public, the girl will pick up on that and think this is what she is supposed to do. Same with little boys and their male role models. Superficiality is something that is taught, it is NOT of our nature..
5. be mindful of your conversations around children, they are BRILLIANT in comparison to the common thoughts concerning their intelligence; they are also sponges and will repeat and mimick all that you say and do..As I said earlier they learn from watching us. They also learn their values in life from what they see us doing..again like I was saying before if looks are what drives you, that will drive your children as well.
6. always be open minded. Every child is different and needs encouragement in different areas apart from other children or their siblings, as well as along with them. the main point is every child should be raised according to the needs he/she presents..if the child doesn't care for themselves properly, breach the subject of present-ability, if the child is TOO focused on their appearance, breach the subject of confidence.
As parents, the child should be well-rounded, intelligent, and well mannered in the end.
As guests, I again say find out where the child is at individually and allow them to share those things with you. If you have something cool to add, do so, other than that, accept the fact that a child is just THAT a child, moldable, and influencial, and as the adult it is your responsibility to be mindful of that influence.
I realized today that when I talk to kids (which is often since I have a daughter, and have been to the playground a few times this week) they are really interested in the wraps I use to cover up my skin graft on my arm, and the cane I have to use from a broken femur. I love this, even though the topic of commenting on appearance is reversed from this thread subject (kids commenting on adults' appearance). I LOVE their curiosity and innocent interest in what's going on with my appearance, since it's different. No adult ever asks me the questions I get from intuitive kids.
I realized today that when I talk to kids (which is often since I have a daughter, and have been to the playground a few times this week) they are really interested in the wraps I use to cover up my skin graft on my arm, and the cane I have to use from a broken femur. I love this, even though the topic of commenting on appearance is reversed from this thread subject (kids commenting on adults' appearance). I LOVE their curiosity and innocent interest in what's going on with my appearance, since it's different. No adult ever asks me the questions I get from intuitive kids.
Just wanted to post that.
Children don't have the filters that adults do. As grown ups we are more sensitive to the personal issues that can emerge from something like that so we don't want to ask so as not to upset your feelings etc. It's a bit of a shame that as we get older we build these walls that prevents a lot of honest, open debate sometimes.
Kids are just curious little buggers and will say anything that comes into their heads.
I clearly remember 23 years ago in a check out line at the grocery store,
my daughter then two having a hissy fit over something she wanted.
I probably looked tired and overwhelmed and the old lady in front of me,
about my age now said...
'sign of a determined woman'
her words really put it in perspective for me and were encouraging.
So...
Young or old, child or adult, when we come in contact just say something nice and encouraging,
everyone enjoys a compliment, everyone needs love.
Even after a lifetime the smallest gestures
still touch the heart and are remembered and they do change lives.
Comments
I can agree with your points.
My boy is almost 2. People call him cute/handsome all the time. Someone even once said, "If he were older..." :wtf: Then they say he's really big for his age, and ask if he can talk, if he's walking, is he using a big boy this or that, is he potty trained, can he recognize letters and numbers...it's like a dog doing tricks. I do find it irritating, I have to PROVE my parenting all the time.
We are damned if we do and if we don't.
So...I hope that I teach him to be good, kind and respectful to others, regardless of their brains or beauty.
This is exactly right on.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
I was shy and quiet and I felt like I missed alot of opportunities because of it so a massively confident child is okay with me.
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
Loulou, It's what good parents do. We encourage, engage and love our children by recognizing all the good things about them. It's when we focus on what they aren't so great at, that we hurt them the most.
I am glad this thread has people talking. I love hearing everyone's perspective. Thank you all.
I have several problems with it. Firstly - who on earth does the author think she is, saying that she changed that little girl's perspective, at least for that night? She said that was the first time she met this particular child - how is it possible that in the short space of an evening she has gleaned from the child what her perspective on ANYTHING is? Trust me on this - a five year old child is a fickle instrument at best - what their perspective is, depends on many, many, many factors, least of which would be a friend of her parents asking her to read a book with her.
Second is probably the fact that although I DO believe society places women's looks way too high on the priority scale, the author clearly has little to no interaction with young children, let alone females. If she did, she would understand that society plays a smaller role than immediate family and peers within a child's life. YES, children, especially girls, are given unrealistic stereotypes that the media says we should live up to - but it is the parents responsibility to ensure that children are well balanced and adjusted, and understand that the whole of a person comes from everything they are, not from what they look like. YES, it's hard, but not as hard as this woman is making out.
For the record, I have 4 children, 3 of them are girls. One is still a little girl at 9, another is a relatively young 12, and the eldest is 13 (going on 21). They all have different personalities, they all are beautiful. Yes, I tell them that. I see absolutely no harm in telling them they are beautiful people, both inside AND out. They have extremely healthy self esteem. They read, they watch tv, they talk to their friends. They understand that the images they see on the television, in movies, in magazines are not realistic expectations of women, and they are ok with that.
Do I talk to them about things other than their looks? Yes, obviously. WHo doesn't? My biggest problem with this article, is the way the author assumes people talk to girls that way. Have I ever asked a girl about her hair, or her looks, or stupid stuff like that? Perhaps a new haircut may have come into conversation, maybe commenting on an article of clothing "Oh, I love that, I would so wear that, I wish they made it in my size!" Is it ok to say to a FIVE YEAR OLD girl - " Oh, you are SO cute"? Yes, it's perfectly fine. Should an entire conversation with ANY child, boy OR girl, revolve around superficial things? No. It's stupid to think that very many people do that. Only people who have little to no experience with children talk like that.
That's my problem with this article. Children grow up healthy inside AND out, when they have people around them who love them, and let them be who they want to be. When you are nurtured and loved, you feel beautiful, and it shows. Telling a girl she is beautiful is not a bad thing.
If every person told every child they were beautiful, there would be no self esteem issues in regards to the way people look. It's a very simple equation - love your child, nurture everything they do, have common sense, and do your absolute best to pass it on. SIMPLE. People should stop overthinking the way children are raised.
got just a little bit into it and wanted to vomit
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I think this is the best sentence in the thread.
Hmmm...strongly disagree with this. That is what parenting is. The teaching moments. NO problem with that, again, it's all in the delivery and purpose.
Good point.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
You are absolutely right. It's how you nurture the child during what is not the best moment at the time is very important.
I am sorry. I did a terrible job explaining my thought there. I was pathetically trying to say: When a parent focuses on a not great moment in a negative or destructive way, it's not nurturing them, it's hurting them.
stardust1976, GREAT response. Completely agreed with you on all your points. Jeanwah is right, best quote in this thread :
1. at first meeting allow the child draw you into the conversation of their choice, it will always be something different for each child, and NEVER feign interest, but listen intently.. you may be suprised at what you learn.
2. NEVER talk "down" to children, they pick up on this right away, and consider it a very severe form of rejection. The more often you do this the more the child begins to resent you, and see you as an enemy.
3. Discuss outward appearance, as needed, but never more, especially in younger children. As in, most young children need to be reminded to be presentable, because at this young age, they really, honestly, don't care! However when a child goes to great lengths to dress nicely, it is more than acceptable to make verbal note of it.
4. there is nothing of greater influence on a child than leading by example.. As in, if a little girl sees that her mother gets up umpteen hours early just to make herself "presentable" to the public, the girl will pick up on that and think this is what she is supposed to do. Same with little boys and their male role models. Superficiality is something that is taught, it is NOT of our nature..
5. be mindful of your conversations around children, they are BRILLIANT in comparison to the common thoughts concerning their intelligence; they are also sponges and will repeat and mimick all that you say and do..As I said earlier they learn from watching us. They also learn their values in life from what they see us doing..again like I was saying before if looks are what drives you, that will drive your children as well.
6. always be open minded. Every child is different and needs encouragement in different areas apart from other children or their siblings, as well as along with them. the main point is every child should be raised according to the needs he/she presents..if the child doesn't care for themselves properly, breach the subject of present-ability, if the child is TOO focused on their appearance, breach the subject of confidence.
As parents, the child should be well-rounded, intelligent, and well mannered in the end.
As guests, I again say find out where the child is at individually and allow them to share those things with you. If you have something cool to add, do so, other than that, accept the fact that a child is just THAT a child, moldable, and influencial, and as the adult it is your responsibility to be mindful of that influence.
Just wanted to post that.
Children don't have the filters that adults do. As grown ups we are more sensitive to the personal issues that can emerge from something like that so we don't want to ask so as not to upset your feelings etc. It's a bit of a shame that as we get older we build these walls that prevents a lot of honest, open debate sometimes.
Kids are just curious little buggers and will say anything that comes into their heads.
I clearly remember 23 years ago in a check out line at the grocery store,
my daughter then two having a hissy fit over something she wanted.
I probably looked tired and overwhelmed and the old lady in front of me,
about my age now
'sign of a determined woman'
her words really put it in perspective for me and were encouraging.
So...
Young or old, child or adult, when we come in contact just say something nice and encouraging,
everyone enjoys a compliment, everyone needs love.
Even after a lifetime the smallest gestures
still touch the heart and are remembered and they do change lives.