If you are looking for a great book that explains this whole Christian thing, I recommend "The Reason for God" by Timothy Keller. The way he lays out everything logically and passionately is amazing.
There is no place for logic or objective reasoning in religion. Belief in God is irrational and illogical because there is no way to objectively measure and prove either the existence or non-existence of a higher being/power/whatever. I have complete respect for people's individual belief or faith but it should be recognised as such and words like 'logic' and 'reason' should be set aside. I do recognise that faith is an incredibly powerful emotional force and is very important to many people.
Can I just ask that we acknowledge the false antithesis of 'spirituality' to 'church'.
I love the church and being a part of it, and I still very much a spiritual person (for want of a better term - if people understood what I was on about I'd say 'embodied person of faith')
I've got a Gibson without a case, but I can't get that even tanned look on my face...
I am a white Catholic who goes to church regularly and voted for Obama...
Detroit '98 - Detroit '03 - Toledo '04 - Grand Rapids '04 - Kitchener '05 - London '05 - Grand Rapids '06 - Cleveland '06 - Detroit '06 - Chicago '07 - West Palm Beach - Tampa '08 - Toronto '09 - Indy '10 - Buffalo '10 - Toronto '11 - London '13
I went to a few different churches as a kid, mostly raised as a Catholic - but I don't consider myself "religious" anymore. I still maintain some spiritual beliefs based on my own personal experiences, not literal perceptions of what was written by some guy 2000 years ago and translated 10 times over. I guess I'm more of an agnostic - I believe in more possibilities than impossibilities.
My wife is from Japan, and although not religious, follows some of the teachings of Buddha. But even Buddhism in modern day Japan is more of a cultural following than a religious one (community, karma, nature, etc.) If anything, I think the Native Americans had a pretty good system of respect for nature and the journey their spirit takes after death.
I do find it kind of interesting that there are so many religions out there today - even the dozens of "spin-off" branches of Christianity that have popped up in the last few decades. I remember when I was in the military, there were code numbers used to identify our religion on some of our personnel records. I was looking up the codes one day and there were close to 80 just for Christianity, and almost 200 in all! I remember thinking to myself "Which one of these religions is true?! I mean, they can't all be right!" And for any one religion to make a claim that it is the right one and have an outward aggression towards other beliefs is pretty damn arrogant to me. I also find it unnerving that there are countries and cultures where belief or non-belief in a religion can get you killed.
I'm all for religious freedom though. In fact, I support the freedom to practice and express your belief in school or in a government facility if you choose - as long as it isn't ENDORSED by a government institution. If you want to sit down next to me in a cafeteria in a government building and say grace before chowing down, I say go for it! After all, this nation was founded on a Constitution that grants us freedom of religious choice - not from public exposure to any religion at all. To prohibit or infringe on someone else's belief's because they differ from our own is wrong.
I have friends of different religious beliefs - even some hardcore athiest friends, and in a way, I repsect them more, because they are good and decent people without a set of guidelines telling them to have to be, or the threat of an eternal punishment if they aren't.
Osaka, Japan (2/21/95), San Diego (7/10/98), Las Vegas (10/22/00), San Diego (10/25/00), Las Vegas (6/6/03), Las Vegas (7/6/06), Los Angeles (7/9/06), VH1 Rock Honors (7/12/08), Ed Solo (7/8/11), Ed Solo (11/1/12), Los Angeles (11/23/13)
The last time I went to church was 2006....They opened with Release
Haha my thoughts exactly! I'm a humanist (I think it's pretty improbable that there's a God especially in the traditional sense, and I'd much rather focus on being a moral human being than basing my values in religion) and concerts are my church. I've never felt more connected to a group of strangers than at the PJ Vic show during "All or None", or Eddie's "Arc" during night 2 Chicago.
United Center Chicago: 05.16.06, 05.17.06
Vic Theater Chicago: 08.02.07
Lollapalooza 2007: 08.05.07
Auditorium Theater Chicago (EV Solo): 08.22.08
United Center Chicago: 08.23.09
While watching Imagine in Cornice again last night, and seeing some of the religious imagery (when Boom was playing the organ in the chapel), I wondered how many hard core pj fans attended church regularly.
I realize it has nothing to do with anything, but I wondered if I was in the minority.
I go to a Baptist Church in the South weekly - I'm White & I voted for Obama, so I figure I'm pretty odd anyway.
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
I attend Church when I have to, weddings, christenings etc
Its a personal thing, and a very strong talking point, but to me its pointless, and something that is a vain hope more than anything else. There has to be a reason that the older people get they start to turn to god more and attend church, it must be a comforting thing. Theres gotta be a reason that the majority of people in church today (I'm not trying to be ignorant here but ont he odd occasion I do get to a church in the Uk the crowds that gather are generally old) are elderly.
Each to their own, and I would never bash someone for their beliefs, but its not for me.
The lord is in my heart not some old ass building with stained glass windows.
wow...that´s exactly the same way I feel.
Roskilde 2000, Berlin 2006,
Athens 2006, Dusseldorf 2007, Copenhagen 2007, New York NY 1 + 2 2008, Berlin
2009, London 2009, London 2010, Berlin 2010, Manchester 2 2012, Berlin 1 2012,
Stockholm 2012, Oslo 2012, Copenhagen 2012, Amsterdam 1 + 2 (EV solo) 2012,
Amsterdam 1 + 2 2014, Stockholm 2014, Oslo 2014, Leeds 2014, Milton Keynes
2014, Heartland Festival DK (EV solo) 2017, Berlin 2018, Barcelona 2018, Copenhagen 2022, Prague 2022 (Cancelled)
There is no place for logic or objective reasoning in religion. Belief in God is irrational and illogical because there is no way to objectively measure and prove either the existence or non-existence of a higher being/power/whatever. I have complete respect for people's individual belief or faith but it should be recognised as such and words like 'logic' and 'reason' should be set aside. I do recognise that faith is an incredibly powerful emotional force and is very important to many people.
actually, reason or logic can be applied to religious belief just as well as it can be applied to anything else. while you certainly aren't going to prove the existence/nonexistence of god, it's entirely possible to have a reasoned approach to faith. it's NOT just an emotional force...
Comments
There is no place for logic or objective reasoning in religion. Belief in God is irrational and illogical because there is no way to objectively measure and prove either the existence or non-existence of a higher being/power/whatever. I have complete respect for people's individual belief or faith but it should be recognised as such and words like 'logic' and 'reason' should be set aside. I do recognise that faith is an incredibly powerful emotional force and is very important to many people.
Dogma you say? I love that movie!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BEZaPN8gUY
Can I just ask that we acknowledge the false antithesis of 'spirituality' to 'church'.
I love the church and being a part of it, and I still very much a spiritual person (for want of a better term - if people understood what I was on about I'd say 'embodied person of faith')
My Morning Jacket
Pearl Jam
Neil Young
Wilco
Tool
Rush
Drive By Truckers
pj shows
8/17/98
8/15/00
8/18/00
8/20/00
6/22/03
10/2/04
8/5/07
Halleluya!
Haha! A myspace group called White Christians Who Voted for Obama or Love Pearl Jam??
I don't have a myspace account though. :(
I do! Sign me up!
http://www.myspace.com/demetriospj
work = work + 1;
sleep = sleep - work * 10;}
else if (work >= 0) {
reality.equals(false);
work = work +1;
}system("pause");
return 0;}
My wife is from Japan, and although not religious, follows some of the teachings of Buddha. But even Buddhism in modern day Japan is more of a cultural following than a religious one (community, karma, nature, etc.) If anything, I think the Native Americans had a pretty good system of respect for nature and the journey their spirit takes after death.
I do find it kind of interesting that there are so many religions out there today - even the dozens of "spin-off" branches of Christianity that have popped up in the last few decades. I remember when I was in the military, there were code numbers used to identify our religion on some of our personnel records. I was looking up the codes one day and there were close to 80 just for Christianity, and almost 200 in all! I remember thinking to myself "Which one of these religions is true?! I mean, they can't all be right!" And for any one religion to make a claim that it is the right one and have an outward aggression towards other beliefs is pretty damn arrogant to me. I also find it unnerving that there are countries and cultures where belief or non-belief in a religion can get you killed.
I'm all for religious freedom though. In fact, I support the freedom to practice and express your belief in school or in a government facility if you choose - as long as it isn't ENDORSED by a government institution. If you want to sit down next to me in a cafeteria in a government building and say grace before chowing down, I say go for it! After all, this nation was founded on a Constitution that grants us freedom of religious choice - not from public exposure to any religion at all. To prohibit or infringe on someone else's belief's because they differ from our own is wrong.
I have friends of different religious beliefs - even some hardcore athiest friends, and in a way, I repsect them more, because they are good and decent people without a set of guidelines telling them to have to be, or the threat of an eternal punishment if they aren't.
Vic Theater Chicago: 08.02.07
Lollapalooza 2007: 08.05.07
Auditorium Theater Chicago (EV Solo): 08.22.08
United Center Chicago: 08.23.09
definitely in the minority around here...but i don't really care.
rent/watch Religulous
or maybe people need to get with God?
just sayin'.
just watch the movie.
THAT's why i don't go to church.
I'm Faithful, but nobody hears.
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
Its a personal thing, and a very strong talking point, but to me its pointless, and something that is a vain hope more than anything else. There has to be a reason that the older people get they start to turn to god more and attend church, it must be a comforting thing. Theres gotta be a reason that the majority of people in church today (I'm not trying to be ignorant here but ont he odd occasion I do get to a church in the Uk the crowds that gather are generally old) are elderly.
Each to their own, and I would never bash someone for their beliefs, but its not for me.
Believe me....It's not in the norm down here in the south to be white/christian/obama supporter.
I've been told on 2 different occasions "I dont see how you call yourself a Christian and vote for Obama."
The red-neck contingent in Georgia alive and well......and Pissed Off/Scared Shitless. It really blows my mind how some people still think today.
You don't question or object to anything in the Bible (which is taken by men to be god's word)?
Therein lies the danger of religion. It should actually be illegal to subject children to religion because they tend to believe what adults tell them.
The world is my temple, the world is my church, heaven's here on earth.
-Tracy Chapman
I don't do organized religion.
wow...that´s exactly the same way I feel.
Roskilde 2000, Berlin 2006, Athens 2006, Dusseldorf 2007, Copenhagen 2007, New York NY 1 + 2 2008, Berlin 2009, London 2009, London 2010, Berlin 2010, Manchester 2 2012, Berlin 1 2012, Stockholm 2012, Oslo 2012, Copenhagen 2012, Amsterdam 1 + 2 (EV solo) 2012, Amsterdam 1 + 2 2014, Stockholm 2014, Oslo 2014, Leeds 2014, Milton Keynes 2014, Heartland Festival DK (EV solo) 2017, Berlin 2018, Barcelona 2018, Copenhagen 2022, Prague 2022 (Cancelled)
actually, reason or logic can be applied to religious belief just as well as it can be applied to anything else. while you certainly aren't going to prove the existence/nonexistence of god, it's entirely possible to have a reasoned approach to faith. it's NOT just an emotional force...
I only go to church on Sundays, if I have to play in the mass..
I do not really believe in god, in fact I don't know what to believe in.. except for music