Florida governor signs welfare drug-screen measure
Comments
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Farms, Oil, Banks all pay taxes... Welfare recipients don't.[/quote]
Every time they buy something they do, don't they?[/quote]
Yes they are paying taxes with other peoples tax money... (my income tax)[/quote]
subsides also come from your tax money too.0 -
Can you explain to me exactly how legalizing these drugs is saying it's ok to use them? It's not at all.pandora wrote:legalizing meth, crack, heroin is sending the wrong message...
it is saying they're ok to use
they are not ... what they do to a body and mind is heartbreaking
the user is not the same person they once were.
You are one that was responsible or was able to say no or had no desire in the first place
but there are many who are less inhibited...
much more curious, and perhaps had some very strong 'party genes' to contend with
or parents who set terrible examples with drug use of their own.
Without a doubt pot should be legalized but never these life destroying drugs.
If the definition of crazy is to continue the same patterns over and over while expecting different results, we’re fuckin fruit loops….Our corporations and their politician whores are ADDICTED to the war on drugs.
What message does it send an addict for our drug policy to be, “this isn’t working…in fact, it’s killing us… but we’re gonna keep doing it”…?
Do you know of anyone with "a very strong party gene" who decides to fight that gene solely based on the fact that drugs are illegal? I don’t. EVERYONE who wants to try drugs, can, despite their legality. Prohibition does very little to combat availability…it does, however, leave distribution/sales completely unregulated.
That's the problem...I hate to play this card, but...people are just plain brainwashed...we've had 3 decades of intense programming, convincing us that fighting drugs with the law is our only option...very hard to overcome that :(mikepegg44 wrote:i will post some highlights for those not interested in reading it..0 -
Typically, the government tests people whose jobs require keeping people safe and people who have gotten in legal trouble (drug charges, etc.). I would say advocates of testing welfare recipients feel like they have done something wrong, and in a way, this is there punishment. They're saying that they should lose certain rights because they're on welfare.
Using the "it's my taxes" argument, I'd like to propose that we drug test everyone who drives a car. It's a heavily subsidized form of transportation, people don't have to do it, and it make things safer.0 -
sooo ... no one really cares that the governor is gonna happen to make a boatload of money on this!?? .. :?0
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It's almost an expected sidenote to any legislation these days, isn't it? :(polaris_x wrote:sooo ... no one really cares that the governor is gonna happen to make a boatload of money on this!?? .. :?
Hardly worth mentioning....f'd.0 -
The Worlds First Politician
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By legalizing meth crack heroin we are indeed condoning the use of them. Just the act of making them legal says it's ok try them.Drowned Out wrote:
Can you explain to me exactly how legalizing these drugs is saying it's ok to use them? It's not at all.pandora wrote:legalizing meth, crack, heroin is sending the wrong message...
it is saying they're ok to use
they are not ... what they do to a body and mind is heartbreaking
the user is not the same person they once were.
You are one that was responsible or was able to say no or had no desire in the first place
but there are many who are less inhibited...
much more curious, and perhaps had some very strong 'party genes' to contend with
or parents who set terrible examples with drug use of their own.
Without a doubt pot should be legalized but never these life destroying drugs.
If the definition of crazy is to continue the same patterns over and over while expecting different results, we’re fuckin fruit loops….Our corporations and their politician whores are ADDICTED to the war on drugs.
What message does it send an addict for our drug policy to be, “this isn’t working…in fact, it’s killing us… but we’re gonna keep doing it”…?
Do you know of anyone with "a very strong party gene" who decides to fight that gene solely based on the fact that drugs are illegal? I don’t. EVERYONE who wants to try drugs, can, despite their legality. Prohibition does very little to combat availability…it does, however, leave distribution/sales completely unregulated.
That's the problem...I hate to play this card, but...people are just plain brainwashed...we've had 3 decades of intense programming, convincing us that fighting drugs with the law is our only option...very hard to overcome that :(mikepegg44 wrote:i will post some highlights for those not interested in reading it..
Some people actually are deterred by the law. They may try it but then because it is illegal with jail time repercussions (felony) may not pursue trying again and using and getting hooked.
Nothing good will ever come with those drugs around... this I know first hand.
On the study about Poland I am seeing increasingly that Americans are not the same as Europeans.
We are different animals... our society is like a 2 year old compared to them with about as much common sense... no offense to US
But I think we got away from the OP's topic :?0 -
Go Beavers wrote:Typically, the government tests people whose jobs require keeping people safe and people who have gotten in legal trouble (drug charges, etc.). I would say advocates of testing welfare recipients feel like they have done something wrong, and in a way, this is there punishment. They're saying that they should lose certain rights because they're on welfare.
Using the "it's my taxes" argument, I'd like to propose that we drug test everyone who drives a car. It's a heavily subsidized form of transportation, people don't have to do it, and it make things safer.
What most people are saying is if you have to be on welfare, how can you afford drugs?
I work in a grocery store and the stories the cashiers tell would blow your mind.
A Mexican family shopping on July 4th. Buy over a thousand dollars worth of groceries that consist of mostly seafood (king crab legs, lobster, you get the picture?). They pay with food stamps. Woman that have there hair and nails done on a regular basis paying with food stamps.
I am upset that the law did not cover government employees like he said when he first announced the idea.“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln0 -
Drowned Out wrote:
Can you explain to me exactly how legalizing these drugs is saying it's ok to use them? It's not at all.pandora wrote:legalizing meth, crack, heroin is sending the wrong message...
it is saying they're ok to use
they are not ... what they do to a body and mind is heartbreaking
the user is not the same person they once were.
You are one that was responsible or was able to say no or had no desire in the first place
but there are many who are less inhibited...
much more curious, and perhaps had some very strong 'party genes' to contend with
or parents who set terrible examples with drug use of their own.
Without a doubt pot should be legalized but never these life destroying drugs.
If the definition of crazy is to continue the same patterns over and over while expecting different results, we’re fuckin fruit loops….Our corporations and their politician whores are ADDICTED to the war on drugs.
What message does it send an addict for our drug policy to be, “this isn’t working…in fact, it’s killing us… but we’re gonna keep doing it”…?
Do you know of anyone with "a very strong party gene" who decides to fight that gene solely based on the fact that drugs are illegal? I don’t. EVERYONE who wants to try drugs, can, despite their legality. Prohibition does very little to combat availability…it does, however, leave distribution/sales completely unregulated.
That's the problem...I hate to play this card, but...people are just plain brainwashed...we've had 3 decades of intense programming, convincing us that fighting drugs with the law is our only option...very hard to overcome that :(mikepegg44 wrote:i will post some highlights for those not interested in reading it..
agreed :ugeek:
It's unfortunate, we don't seem to learn from our mistakes, then times passes and the next thing we know, that law/or way of doing something becomes part of our culture, in the blood stream (so to speak)
It comes across as almost insane to even think about legalizing all drugs. But in reality, it may just be the only thing that works.
It's sad, we are living in a fear based world. You do something 'wrong', you get punished. We have become a people will little compassion. Little understanding.Post edited by Idris on0 -
I think this is a good idea, especially since if a user fails, they can designate another adult who is hopefully more responsible, thus children don't suffer for their parent's failings.
The aid recipients would be responsible for the cost of the screening, which they would recoup in their assistance if they qualify. Those who fail the required drug testing may designate another individual to receive the benefits on behalf of their children.
Whether you believe drugs should be legal or illegal, you cannot discount the fact that they slow you down and decrease your motivation. If your last resort for food/money is government handouts, the last thing you should be doing is drugs.Be Excellent To Each OtherParty On, Dudes!0 -
It is NOT saying it’s ok. Are your morals set by law? Mine aren’t. I can think for myself, thanks.pandora wrote:By legalizing meth crack heroin we are indeed condoning the use of them. Just the act of making them legal says it's ok try them.
Some people actually are deterred by the law. They may try it but then because it is illegal with jail time repercussions (felony) may not pursue trying again and using and getting hooked.
Nothing good will ever come with those drugs around... this I know first hand.
On the study about Poland I am seeing increasingly that Americans are not the same as Europeans.
We are different animals... our society is like a 2 year old compared to them with about as much common sense... no offense to US
But I think we got away from the OP's topic :?
Who is deterred by law? I don’t buy it. You make it sound as if people only do drugs on street corners, facing imminent threat of arrest….most people who experiment are offered drugs by people they trust in private settings. People don’t even think of the police in that scenario. Even if people ARE deterred, it is a VERY small percentage. If you’re now thinking ‘if prohibition can keep one child off drugs, it’s worth it’…your reasoning has serious flaws. It is NOT worth it to incarcerate millions of non-violent people to save a small fraction of that number from addiction, when the money saved from the legal/prison systems would pay for addiction counseling for ALL of them…Fact is there is NO policy that will prevent people from using drugs. Education may make people think twice, but if they want the experience and are willing to take the risk, nothing is going to stop them. Making it easier, more affordable, less taboo, to admit you are dangerously involved, and funding new research into addiction, prevention education, and improving facilities are the way to go. You can fund jails and halfway homes, or hospitals and clinics…. which do you choose?
Also, I don’t know if you mean to say you have a more legit opinion on the topic because of personal experience…but I assure you, like most people, I have a LOT of personal experience with hard drugs and addiction. I have drug addicted friends and family members. I lost my first love to an overdose (long after we split, but she was still a very special friend). My best friend from HS killed himself while trying to get off coke. These experiences are exactly what made me take such an interest in drug policy….I’ve spent two decades reading everything I can get my hands on regarding this topic…my conclusion: harm reduction is the only logical approach.
And no…we are not off topic IMO….the welfare testing is only feasible because drugs are illegal. They are not testing for alcohol, right? If not for the war on drugs, we wouldn’t be talking about this.
What Poland study are you referring to?0 -
Like omg that's such bullshit....aerial wrote:
What most people are saying is if you have to be on welfare, how can you afford drugs?
I work in a grocery store and the stories the cashiers tell would blow your mind.
A Mexican family shopping on July 4th. Buy over a thousand dollars worth of groceries that consist of mostly seafood (king crab legs, lobster, you get the picture?). They pay with food stamps. Woman that have there hair and nails done on a regular basis paying with food stamps.
I am upset that the law did not cover government employees like he said when he first announced the idea.
A white person would never do that :roll: Damn mexicans...
Unbelievable. Now you'll get all defensive and say people call each other racist too easily.
What the fuck did race/nationality have to do with this story, aerial? :evil:0 -
Drowned Out wrote:
Like omg that's such bullshit....aerial wrote:
What most people are saying is if you have to be on welfare, how can you afford drugs?
I work in a grocery store and the stories the cashiers tell would blow your mind.
A Mexican family shopping on July 4th. Buy over a thousand dollars worth of groceries that consist of mostly seafood (king crab legs, lobster, you get the picture?). They pay with food stamps. Woman that have there hair and nails done on a regular basis paying with food stamps.
I am upset that the law did not cover government employees like he said when he first announced the idea.
A white person would never do that :roll: Damn mexicans...
Unbelievable. Now you'll get all defensive and say people call each other racist too easily.
What the fuck did race/nationality have to do with this story, aerial? :evil:
It had to do with welfare you could not get that. I said Mexicans because that is the story she told me, they could not even speak English (she told me). The cashiers working hard for her money sees this as unfair. They cannot afford such a meal and she works.
I think the cashier, as I get offended.
Can you agree that people that get food stamps (welfare) should spend more wisely?“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln0 -
so if they're an alcholic they'll be ok! People abuse drugs and alcohol whether they're on welfare or not, white, black, asian, mexican....this is about money. If this policy gets put into effect, just curious to see if crime rates go up. This is a social issue, poverty breeds crime and drug/alcohol abuse so unless we start thinking outside the box, our politicians are always going to waste money on drug enforcement that doesn't work or put that money in their own pockets like our buddy from FLA. I don't have the answer but drug testing is expensive and I can't wait to see how much money this will cost as opposed to save.0
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Drowned Out wrote:
It is NOT saying it’s ok. Are your morals set by law? Mine aren’t. I can think for myself, thanks.pandora wrote:By legalizing meth crack heroin we are indeed condoning the use of them. Just the act of making them legal says it's ok try them.
Some people actually are deterred by the law. They may try it but then because it is illegal with jail time repercussions (felony) may not pursue trying again and using and getting hooked.
Nothing good will ever come with those drugs around... this I know first hand.
On the study about Poland I am seeing increasingly that Americans are not the same as Europeans.
We are different animals... our society is like a 2 year old compared to them with about as much common sense... no offense to US
But I think we got away from the OP's topic :?
Who is deterred by law? I don’t buy it. You make it sound as if people only do drugs on street corners, facing imminent threat of arrest….most people who experiment are offered drugs by people they trust in private settings. People don’t even think of the police in that scenario. Even if people ARE deterred, it is a VERY small percentage. If you’re now thinking ‘if prohibition can keep one child off drugs, it’s worth it’…your reasoning has serious flaws. It is NOT worth it to incarcerate millions of non-violent people to save a small fraction of that number from addiction, when the money saved from the legal/prison systems would pay for addiction counseling for ALL of them…Fact is there is NO policy that will prevent people from using drugs. Education may make people think twice, but if they want the experience and are willing to take the risk, nothing is going to stop them. Making it easier, more affordable, less taboo, to admit you are dangerously involved, and funding new research into addiction, prevention education, and improving facilities are the way to go. You can fund jails and halfway homes, or hospitals and clinics…. which do you choose?
Also, I don’t know if you mean to say you have a more legit opinion on the topic because of personal experience…but I assure you, like most people, I have a LOT of personal experience with hard drugs and addiction. I have drug addicted friends and family members. I lost my first love to an overdose (long after we split, but she was still a very special friend). My best friend from HS killed himself while trying to get off coke. These experiences are exactly what made me take such an interest in drug policy….I’ve spent two decades reading everything I can get my hands on regarding this topic…my conclusion: harm reduction is the only logical approach.
And no…we are not off topic IMO….the welfare testing is only feasible because drugs are illegal. They are not testing for alcohol, right? If not for the war on drugs, we wouldn’t be talking about this.
What Poland study are you referring to?
another poster put up a study on Poland here in this thread I think directed to my comments.
Yes they should test for alcohol or at least not allow recipients to buy it with tax dollars as they do now.
Drugs have nothing to do with morals, addiction is self gratification and self destruction.
Even those with high morals get addicted.
And yes by the time addiction takes over they are on street corners...
a shadow of the person they were. Without hope, love, the only need is the drug
and if we can save a small percentage that's fine with me.
A life saved from that shit is a life saved.
Legalize pot keep hard drugs a felony. Deterring in my opinion is the best policy
starting with education of the young and the examples set by society and the adults in the child's life.
And yes I also have much experience with hard drugs, as you do, that has brought me, as you, to our opinions. Opinions that we will never agree upon.0 -
Drowned Out wrote:
Like omg that's such bullshit....aerial wrote:
What most people are saying is if you have to be on welfare, how can you afford drugs?
I work in a grocery store and the stories the cashiers tell would blow your mind.
A Mexican family shopping on July 4th. Buy over a thousand dollars worth of groceries that consist of mostly seafood (king crab legs, lobster, you get the picture?). They pay with food stamps. Woman that have there hair and nails done on a regular basis paying with food stamps.
I am upset that the law did not cover government employees like he said when he first announced the idea.
A white person would never do that :roll: Damn mexicans...
Unbelievable. Now you'll get all defensive and say people call each other racist too easily.
What the fuck did race/nationality have to do with this story, aerial? :evil:
just because Aerial mentioned that the family was mexican you get all pissed off and shitty ? :evil: ...WTF is that all about ?
Godfather.0 -
But you can still drink right? Ofcourse.
0 -
Godfather. wrote:Drowned Out wrote:
Like omg that's such bullshit....aerial wrote:
What most people are saying is if you have to be on welfare, how can you afford drugs?
I work in a grocery store and the stories the cashiers tell would blow your mind.
A Mexican family shopping on July 4th. Buy over a thousand dollars worth of groceries that consist of mostly seafood (king crab legs, lobster, you get the picture?). They pay with food stamps. Woman that have there hair and nails done on a regular basis paying with food stamps.
I am upset that the law did not cover government employees like he said when he first announced the idea.
A white person would never do that :roll: Damn mexicans...
Unbelievable. Now you'll get all defensive and say people call each other racist too easily.
What the fuck did race/nationality have to do with this story, aerial? :evil:
just because Aerial mentioned that the family was mexican you get all pissed off and shitty ? :evil: ...WTF is that all about ?
Godfather.
Referencing nationality in a story when their nationality isn't relevant reinforces stereotypes. Whether it's done consciously or not, you see it all the time. If it's something negative, race is often mentioned, where when it's positive, race is often left out. You don't hear "this black guy in front of me in Starbucks bought my latte".0 -
aerial wrote:Drowned Out wrote:
Like omg that's such bullshit....aerial wrote:
What most people are saying is if you have to be on welfare, how can you afford drugs?
I work in a grocery store and the stories the cashiers tell would blow your mind.
A Mexican family shopping on July 4th. Buy over a thousand dollars worth of groceries that consist of mostly seafood (king crab legs, lobster, you get the picture?). They pay with food stamps. Woman that have there hair and nails done on a regular basis paying with food stamps.
I am upset that the law did not cover government employees like he said when he first announced the idea.
A white person would never do that :roll: Damn mexicans...
Unbelievable. Now you'll get all defensive and say people call each other racist too easily.
What the fuck did race/nationality have to do with this story, aerial? :evil:
It had to do with welfare you could not get that. I said Mexicans because that is the story she told me, they could not even speak English (she told me). The cashiers working hard for her money sees this as unfair. They cannot afford such a meal and she works.
I think the cashier, as I get offended.
Can you agree that people that get food stamps (welfare) should spend more wisely?
You can qualify for food stamps while still being employed. If the cashiers had children, they probably would, too. A houshold of 3 (that includes 1 or 2 kids) can qualify if the gross income is $3000/mo. in the house.0 -
aerial wrote:Go Beavers wrote:Typically, the government tests people whose jobs require keeping people safe and people who have gotten in legal trouble (drug charges, etc.). I would say advocates of testing welfare recipients feel like they have done something wrong, and in a way, this is there punishment. They're saying that they should lose certain rights because they're on welfare.
Using the "it's my taxes" argument, I'd like to propose that we drug test everyone who drives a car. It's a heavily subsidized form of transportation, people don't have to do it, and it make things safer.
What most people are saying is if you have to be on welfare, how can you afford drugs?
I work in a grocery store and the stories the cashiers tell would blow your mind.
A Mexican family shopping on July 4th. Buy over a thousand dollars worth of groceries that consist of mostly seafood (king crab legs, lobster, you get the picture?). They pay with food stamps. Woman that have there hair and nails done on a regular basis paying with food stamps.
I am upset that the law did not cover government employees like he said when he first announced the idea.
Why do you think it should cover government employees?0
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