House Approves $690 Billion Defense Bill

245

Comments

  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,621
    Godfather. wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    I would like to see the world how you see it ,I would like it to be better but I have to see it as really is and that is also sad, if the US is not prepared and ready we set our selfs up for another Pearl Harbor or even another 9/11 , I wish there was no need for a military anywhere in the world but this is what we have to deal with and it stinks, nobody is willing to lay down arms.

    Godfather.

    your beliefs are rooted in fear and not reality ... you ask the wrong questions while seeking the wrong answers ... there are many countries that live without the constant threat of violence ... these countries also contribute aid around the world ... and these countries do not feel the need to spend excessively on weapons of mass destruction ...

    everyday we all make disissions based on some sort of fear, it keeps us alive if we don't let it overwelm our daley lives and use it as the tool it's ment to be...did I just post that ?....I ain't sceeered. :lol:

    Godfather.

    Let's go with your argument that the military keeps us safe. Wouldn't it be reasonable to cut the budget down to 500 billion a year--where it was only 6 years ago. Were we in danger in 2005 of being invaded? Are we safer in 2011 because we blow over 700 billion? The pentagon's black budget is 50 billion. That's all unaccounted for. Do you think the waste in that is only "some"?

    I know the funding stream is different, but how many teachers have been laid off in the last couple years? It's logically and morally unjustifiable to give the military an increase in their budget.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    I agree about the teachers, but I don't think(I don't know ..really) the military budget has much to do with that,
    I think that state and local mis-spending has as more to do with that than we realize and the other funding (federal)that is spent on much less important thing's that could be used to improve our schools and quality of our edcuators (training, new courses for teachers to better unerstand and help students).

    Godfather.
  • markin ball
    markin ball Posts: 1,076
    tonifig8 wrote:
    House Gives President Nearly Endless Power To Wage War, But Also Only Barely Votes Down Withdrawal


    This afternoon, the House of Representatives has been debating — and voting on — a set of amendments to the National Defense Authorization Act of Fiscal Year 2012 (NDAA). One particularly important bipartisan amendment offered by Reps. Barbara Lee (D-CA) and Justin Amash (R-MI) would have struck Section 1034 from the language of the bill.

    What is Section 1034? It’s a section that was inserted by Rep. Buck McKeon (R-CA) and others that would update the Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) that was passed after the 9/11 attacks. It would vastly expand the power of the President to engage in war. As the ACLU explains, the provision would go much further than the AUMF, “allowing war wherever there are terrorism suspects in any country around the world without an expiration date, geographical boundaries or connection to the 9/11 attacks or any other specific harm or threat to the United States. There have been no hearings on the provision, nor has its necessity been explained by Rep. McKeon or anyone else in Congress.” The section also strikes a blow against civil liberties by expanding detainment powers.

    This provision is so expansive that even the Obama administration — the very executive branch whose power would be greatly enhanced — has issued a veto threat should it survive Congress. This afternoon, the Lee-Amash amendment was defeated. As The Nation’s George Zornick notes, the amendment was defeated along a 234-187 vote, with 20 Democrats voting against and 21 Republicans voting for it:

    On a near-party line vote of 234-187, the House has voted down an amendment by Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI) and Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA) that would have stripped the so-called “endless war” provision from the defense authorization bill. [...] Twenty-one Republicans broke with their party to support the Amash-Lee amendment; unfortunately, 20 Democrats also crossed over and opposed it.

    Yet there was a silver lining to today’s NDAA votes. Rep. Jim McGovern (D-MA) introduced an amendment to require the President to submit a timetable for withdrawal from Afghanistan. While it failed, it only lost by 11 votes and netted the votes of even 26 Republicans. Recall, last year, when Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) introduced legislation to require an exit from Afghanistan, it failed 18-80, with most Democrats voting against it.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/26/unl ... qus_thread

    That's nice to know. I don't know if politics motivated that decision or not but in the end it the right decision to make as an American.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • Boxes&Books
    Boxes&Books USA Posts: 2,672
    Godfather. wrote:
    I agree about the teachers, but I don't think(I don't know ..really) the military budget has much to do with that,
    I think that state and local mis-spending has as more to do with that than we realize and the other funding (federal)that is spent on much less important thing's that could be used to improve our schools and quality of our edcuators (training, new courses for teachers to better unerstand and help students).

    Godfather.


    GOP Cuts Disaster Preparedness Funds By $1.5 Billion



    In response to the deadliest spring of climate disasters in decades, House Republicans are slashing billions from disaster preparedness programs, including support for firefighters. On Tuesday, the House Appropriations Committee cut the successful Department of Energy clean car manufacturing loan program by $1.5 billion to add $1 billion to disaster relief. But they also slashed other parts of the Federal Emergency Management Agency and Homeland Security budget, including cuts of $1.5 billion from President Obama’s request for next year in firefighter assistance grants and state and local grants administered by FEMA.

    During the markup, Reps. David Price (D-NC) and Steve LaTourette (R-IL) attempted to restore $460 million in funding for firefighter grants and $1.1 billion in state and local grants, but their amendment was defeated 20 to 27 by the Republican majority. Price blasted the decision to “decimate funding” for disaster preparedness:

    One of the worst decisions was to decimate funding for almost every grant program for state and local preparedness. Providing a total of $1 billion for all State and Local Grants, or 65 percent below the request, and providing $350 million for Firefighter Assistance Grants, almost 50 percent below an already reduced request, breaks faith with the states and localities that depend on us as partners to secure our communities. These cuts will be doubly disruptive as many of our states and municipalities are being forced to slash their own budgets.

    “In today’s environment,” said Appropriations Committee Chairman Hal Rogers (R-KY), according to CQ, “we can’t be subsidizing local governments to the extent we have.” Parts of his district were declared a federal disaster area earlier this month because of catastrophic flooding.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/27/gop ... eparednes/
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Godfather. wrote:
    ..

    all this spending and the rest of the world shakes their head's at our debt but still come running with their hand's out and the US keeps on giving and giving...Billions and billions to it's friendly neighbors, it seems to me that our country pays too much for friendship, it's ez for us to assume anything but if you look back at our history and the history of the countrys around the US we have it pretty good with minimal attacks on our soil and really non sense WWII and that in my opinion is because the US has the best technology and the strongest military and we have weapons at home too :mrgreen:
    _no military no peace....know military know peace ! :lol:

    Godfather.

    A better Education and more understanding, then we will truly know peace...
  • SatansFuton
    SatansFuton Posts: 5,399
    Godfather. wrote:
    I agree about the teachers, but I don't think(I don't know ..really) the military budget has much to do with that,
    I think that state and local mis-spending has as more to do with that than we realize and the other funding (federal)that is spent on much less important thing's that could be used to improve our schools and quality of our edcuators (training, new courses for teachers to better unerstand and help students).

    Godfather.

    Yeah, plus, if you give money to education, they are just as likely to blow it and mis-use it as anybody else. Every week on the local news I see these stories of school board members taking private jets to some conference where they rack up hundreds of thousands in questionable charges. That might not be everywhere, but around here there is a bunch of corruption in the education system.

    There is a high school around here that is in the process of finishing construction on a $60 million football stadium (no not a pro team or college, high school), the same school is laying off teachers because they can't afford to pay them.

    There is a ton of other crap going on with our state's education funds that goes all the way up to the governor. So I don't think "give it to education" would be money any better spent. Unless the government steps in to make sure the money is used for the intended purpose, but if your governor is anything like ours he/she will scream and cry about Washington trying to micro-manage the state, and acting like Big Brother.
    "See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Idris wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    ..

    all this spending and the rest of the world shakes their head's at our debt but still come running with their hand's out and the US keeps on giving and giving...Billions and billions to it's friendly neighbors, it seems to me that our country pays too much for friendship, it's ez for us to assume anything but if you look back at our history and the history of the countrys around the US we have it pretty good with minimal attacks on our soil and really non sense WWII and that in my opinion is because the US has the best technology and the strongest military and we have weapons at home too :mrgreen:
    _no military no peace....know military know peace ! :lol:

    Godfather.

    A better Education and more understanding, then we will truly know peace...

    that would be nice.

    Godfather.
  • butterjam
    butterjam Posts: 221
    Godfather. wrote:

    I would like to see the world how you see it ,I would like it to be better but I have to see it as really is and that is also sad, if the US is not prepared and ready we set our selfs up for another Pearl Harbor or even another 9/11 , I wish there was no need for a military anywhere in the world but this is what we have to deal with and it stinks, nobody is willing to lay down arms.

    Godfather.

    We set ourselves up for Pearl Harbor and 9-11 because of our foreign policy, not because we don't spend enough on our military.

    As long as we continue to have a military presence all over the world, we will continue to be a target. How can anyone justify having military bases in 150+ countries?
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    311jj wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:

    I would like to see the world how you see it ,I would like it to be better but I have to see it as really is and that is also sad, if the US is not prepared and ready we set our selfs up for another Pearl Harbor or even another 9/11 , I wish there was no need for a military anywhere in the world but this is what we have to deal with and it stinks, nobody is willing to lay down arms.

    Godfather.

    We set ourselves up for Pearl Harbor and 9-11 because of our foreign policy, not because we don't spend enough on our military.

    As long as we continue to have a military presence all over the world, we will continue to be a target. How can anyone justify having military bases in 150+ countries?

    wow I didn't know we have a 150 military bases around the world but I would call it covering our bases. :D



    Godfather.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    311jj wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:

    I would like to see the world how you see it ,I would like it to be better but I have to see it as really is and that is also sad, if the US is not prepared and ready we set our selfs up for another Pearl Harbor or even another 9/11 , I wish there was no need for a military anywhere in the world but this is what we have to deal with and it stinks, nobody is willing to lay down arms.

    Godfather.

    We set ourselves up for Pearl Harbor and 9-11 because of our foreign policy, not because we don't spend enough on our military.

    As long as we continue to have a military presence all over the world, we will continue to be a target. How can anyone justify having military bases in 150+ countries?

    and by the way,would you rather have it the other way around ? because that's how it would be if we were not
    on top with military tech and the willingness to do what we have to protect our country...and spreading a little cash around don't hurt either ;) ....damn and they call the Mafia a crime family ?. :lol:

    Godfather.
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Godfather. wrote:
    311jj wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:

    I would like to see the world how you see it ,I would like it to be better but I have to see it as really is and that is also sad, if the US is not prepared and ready we set our selfs up for another Pearl Harbor or even another 9/11 , I wish there was no need for a military anywhere in the world but this is what we have to deal with and it stinks, nobody is willing to lay down arms.

    Godfather.

    We set ourselves up for Pearl Harbor and 9-11 because of our foreign policy, not because we don't spend enough on our military.

    As long as we continue to have a military presence all over the world, we will continue to be a target. How can anyone justify having military bases in 150+ countries?

    wow I didn't know we have a 150 military bases around the world but I would call it covering our bases. :D



    Godfather.

    Or we can call it what it really is, But first we need to see it for what it Truly is, American Hegemony used for Cultural imperialism to set up and maintain a corrupt Matrix style system using the worlds population to feed itself and expand the Empire.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    forgive me but that just sounds paranoid.

    Godfather.
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Godfather. wrote:
    forgive me but that just sounds paranoid.

    Godfather.

    Don't be so worried about how it sounds, just look at the facts, look at history. 150+Military Bases, a massive amount of Nukes, a 690Billion defense bill. Foreign wars, occupations, failed policies, CIA overthrows, secret prisons, Torture, no respect for international law, human rights......... :ugeek:
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Idris wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    forgive me but that just sounds paranoid.

    Godfather.

    Don't be so worried about how it sounds, just look at the facts, look at history. 150+Military Bases, a massive amount of Nukes, a 690Billion defense bill. Foreign wars, occupations, failed policies, CIA overthrows, secret prisons, Torture, no respect for international law, human rights......... :ugeek:

    godfather is a patriot in all it entails ... both the good and the bad ... it is pretty much what allows america to be america ...
  • SatansFuton
    SatansFuton Posts: 5,399
    polaris_x wrote:
    Idris wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    forgive me but that just sounds paranoid.

    Godfather.

    Don't be so worried about how it sounds, just look at the facts, look at history. 150+Military Bases, a massive amount of Nukes, a 690Billion defense bill. Foreign wars, occupations, failed policies, CIA overthrows, secret prisons, Torture, no respect for international law, human rights......... :ugeek:

    godfather is a patriot in all it entails ... both the good and the bad ... it is pretty much what allows america to be america ...

    Well, just like there are those who feel America can do no wrong, there are those that find fault in everything we do. I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views. Whenever you see somebody invoke The Matrix in their view of the U.S. you aren't dealing with a mind any more reasonable than some guy with his "These Colors Don't Run" American flag t-shirt. And the broad assumption that ignorance allows the U.S. to be what it is, isn't much better. Just sounds like regular old hatred to me.
    "See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    SatansFuton wrote:

    Well, just like there are those who feel America can do no wrong, there are those that find fault in everything we do. I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views. Whenever you see somebody invoke The Matrix in their view of the U.S. you aren't dealing with a mind any more reasonable than some guy with his "These Colors Don't Run" American flag t-shirt. And the broad assumption that ignorance allows the U.S. to be what it is, isn't much better. Just sounds like regular old hatred to me.

    Then Your thinking is wrong, sorry.

    Just stick with the facts, stick with the truth. That's all I care about. Don't talk about me, tell me about the good America does, and I'm sure I'll agree with it, if it's true. This knee jerk reaction to a phrase or words or whatever you don't like is just silly.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    SatansFuton wrote:
    Well, just like there are those who feel America can do no wrong, there are those that find fault in everything we do. I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views. Whenever you see somebody invoke The Matrix in their view of the U.S. you aren't dealing with a mind any more reasonable than some guy with his "These Colors Don't Run" American flag t-shirt. And the broad assumption that ignorance allows the U.S. to be what it is, isn't much better. Just sounds like regular old hatred to me.

    if that's how you want to dismiss it ... by all means ... the message is still the same ...
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,882
    polaris_x wrote:
    SatansFuton wrote:
    Well, just like there are those who feel America can do no wrong, there are those that find fault in everything we do. I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views. Whenever you see somebody invoke The Matrix in their view of the U.S. you aren't dealing with a mind any more reasonable than some guy with his "These Colors Don't Run" American flag t-shirt. And the broad assumption that ignorance allows the U.S. to be what it is, isn't much better. Just sounds like regular old hatred to me.

    if that's how you want to dismiss it ... by all means ... the message is still the same ...


    You guys should really be pitching in. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • SatansFuton
    SatansFuton Posts: 5,399
    I'm not dismissing we make mistakes. Hell, I get mad as hell over some of the shit the U.S. does. I'm just saying a little middle ground would be nice. Some of you guys are just militantly anti-American, finding fault with EVERYTHING, and I just personally think that's no more reasonable than the hardcore patriots that think America can do no wrong. And there can be no reasonable discussion between people like that. Example: I disagreed with Idris and I was told my "thinking is wrong". :lol: Seriously, how am I supposed to respond to that? I guess I'll take my thinking into the shop and get it checked out just in case.
    "See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    SatansFuton wrote:
    I'm not dismissing we make mistakes. Hell, I get mad as hell over some of the shit the U.S. does. I'm just saying a little middle ground would be nice. Some of you guys are just militantly anti-American, finding fault with EVERYTHING, and I just personally think that's no more reasonable than the hardcore patriots that think America can do no wrong. And there can be no reasonable discussion between people like that. Example: I disagreed with Idris and I was told my "thinking is wrong". :lol: Seriously, how am I supposed to respond to that? I guess I'll take my thinking into the shop and get it checked out just in case.

    i don't know a single person who thinks america is all bad ... sorry - but that seems to be the general response when someone points out something ...

    if this thread was about national parks - i'd have a lot more positive things to say ... but this thread is about "defense" and ultimately an arms race ... as a diehard peacenik and socialist - i find it brutally tragic that people still believe that building the biggest guns and having more of them somehow makes the world a better or safer place ... no legitimate statistic nor fact nor study anywhere in the world points to that yet - here it is ...

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