I would like to see the world how you see it ,I would like it to be better but I have to see it as really is and that is also sad, if the US is not prepared and ready we set our selfs up for another Pearl Harbor or even another 9/11 , I wish there was no need for a military anywhere in the world but this is what we have to deal with and it stinks, nobody is willing to lay down arms.
Godfather.
We set ourselves up for Pearl Harbor and 9-11 because of our foreign policy, not because we don't spend enough on our military.
As long as we continue to have a military presence all over the world, we will continue to be a target. How can anyone justify having military bases in 150+ countries?
wow I didn't know we have a 150 military bases around the world but I would call it covering our bases.
Godfather.
Or we can call it what it really is, But first we need to see it for what it Truly is, American Hegemony used for Cultural imperialism to set up and maintain a corrupt Matrix style system using the worlds population to feed itself and expand the Empire.
Don't be so worried about how it sounds, just look at the facts, look at history. 150+Military Bases, a massive amount of Nukes, a 690Billion defense bill. Foreign wars, occupations, failed policies, CIA overthrows, secret prisons, Torture, no respect for international law, human rights......... :ugeek:
Don't be so worried about how it sounds, just look at the facts, look at history. 150+Military Bases, a massive amount of Nukes, a 690Billion defense bill. Foreign wars, occupations, failed policies, CIA overthrows, secret prisons, Torture, no respect for international law, human rights......... :ugeek:
godfather is a patriot in all it entails ... both the good and the bad ... it is pretty much what allows america to be america ...
Don't be so worried about how it sounds, just look at the facts, look at history. 150+Military Bases, a massive amount of Nukes, a 690Billion defense bill. Foreign wars, occupations, failed policies, CIA overthrows, secret prisons, Torture, no respect for international law, human rights......... :ugeek:
godfather is a patriot in all it entails ... both the good and the bad ... it is pretty much what allows america to be america ...
Well, just like there are those who feel America can do no wrong, there are those that find fault in everything we do. I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views. Whenever you see somebody invoke The Matrix in their view of the U.S. you aren't dealing with a mind any more reasonable than some guy with his "These Colors Don't Run" American flag t-shirt. And the broad assumption that ignorance allows the U.S. to be what it is, isn't much better. Just sounds like regular old hatred to me.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
Well, just like there are those who feel America can do no wrong, there are those that find fault in everything we do. I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views. Whenever you see somebody invoke The Matrix in their view of the U.S. you aren't dealing with a mind any more reasonable than some guy with his "These Colors Don't Run" American flag t-shirt. And the broad assumption that ignorance allows the U.S. to be what it is, isn't much better. Just sounds like regular old hatred to me.
Then Your thinking is wrong, sorry.
Just stick with the facts, stick with the truth. That's all I care about. Don't talk about me, tell me about the good America does, and I'm sure I'll agree with it, if it's true. This knee jerk reaction to a phrase or words or whatever you don't like is just silly.
Well, just like there are those who feel America can do no wrong, there are those that find fault in everything we do. I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views. Whenever you see somebody invoke The Matrix in their view of the U.S. you aren't dealing with a mind any more reasonable than some guy with his "These Colors Don't Run" American flag t-shirt. And the broad assumption that ignorance allows the U.S. to be what it is, isn't much better. Just sounds like regular old hatred to me.
if that's how you want to dismiss it ... by all means ... the message is still the same ...
Well, just like there are those who feel America can do no wrong, there are those that find fault in everything we do. I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views. Whenever you see somebody invoke The Matrix in their view of the U.S. you aren't dealing with a mind any more reasonable than some guy with his "These Colors Don't Run" American flag t-shirt. And the broad assumption that ignorance allows the U.S. to be what it is, isn't much better. Just sounds like regular old hatred to me.
if that's how you want to dismiss it ... by all means ... the message is still the same ...
I'm not dismissing we make mistakes. Hell, I get mad as hell over some of the shit the U.S. does. I'm just saying a little middle ground would be nice. Some of you guys are just militantly anti-American, finding fault with EVERYTHING, and I just personally think that's no more reasonable than the hardcore patriots that think America can do no wrong. And there can be no reasonable discussion between people like that. Example: I disagreed with Idris and I was told my "thinking is wrong". Seriously, how am I supposed to respond to that? I guess I'll take my thinking into the shop and get it checked out just in case.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
I'm not dismissing we make mistakes. Hell, I get mad as hell over some of the shit the U.S. does. I'm just saying a little middle ground would be nice. Some of you guys are just militantly anti-American, finding fault with EVERYTHING, and I just personally think that's no more reasonable than the hardcore patriots that think America can do no wrong. And there can be no reasonable discussion between people like that. Example: I disagreed with Idris and I was told my "thinking is wrong". Seriously, how am I supposed to respond to that? I guess I'll take my thinking into the shop and get it checked out just in case.
i don't know a single person who thinks america is all bad ... sorry - but that seems to be the general response when someone points out something ...
if this thread was about national parks - i'd have a lot more positive things to say ... but this thread is about "defense" and ultimately an arms race ... as a diehard peacenik and socialist - i find it brutally tragic that people still believe that building the biggest guns and having more of them somehow makes the world a better or safer place ... no legitimate statistic nor fact nor study anywhere in the world points to that yet - here it is ...
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
If it were up to me our overseas military would have 95% return home today, and many would be deployed to the southern border where there really is a war.
Foreign aid would also be cut by the same margin. It is not be an isolationist, it is being a non-interventionist. It can be achieved, but only one way.
I'm not dismissing we make mistakes. Hell, I get mad as hell over some of the shit the U.S. does. I'm just saying a little middle ground would be nice. Some of you guys are just militantly anti-American, finding fault with EVERYTHING, and I just personally think that's no more reasonable than the hardcore patriots that think America can do no wrong. And there can be no reasonable discussion between people like that. Example: I disagreed with Idris and I was told my "thinking is wrong". Seriously, how am I supposed to respond to that? I guess I'll take my thinking into the shop and get it checked out just in case.
"I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views" That's why I referred to your thinking as being wrong, not as a whole. Sorry about that.
So you can take that out of the equation. My intent surely was not an attack on your operation of mind, rather it came across as if your were doing that to me. Which is fine, just not correct.
As I only posted facts, then used 'The Matrix' as a foundation, referencing control and manipulation by the ones in charge. Which is exactly how it is. Fair no?
I'm not dismissing we make mistakes. Hell, I get mad as hell over some of the shit the U.S. does. I'm just saying a little middle ground would be nice. Some of you guys are just militantly anti-American, finding fault with EVERYTHING, and I just personally think that's no more reasonable than the hardcore patriots that think America can do no wrong. And there can be no reasonable discussion between people like that. Example: I disagreed with Idris and I was told my "thinking is wrong". Seriously, how am I supposed to respond to that? I guess I'll take my thinking into the shop and get it checked out just in case.
i don't know a single person who thinks america is all bad ... sorry - but that seems to be the general response when someone points out something ...
if this thread was about national parks - i'd have a lot more positive things to say ... but this thread is about "defense" and ultimately an arms race ... as a diehard peacenik and socialist - i find it brutally tragic that people still believe that building the biggest guns and having more of them somehow makes the world a better or safer place ... no legitimate statistic nor fact nor study anywhere in the world points to that yet - here it is ...
That's fair polaris-x, but it seems on so many threads I open (stressing the "I" there) it turns into America shit talking. Or even threads where the American shit talking is on topic, you get some really hard-line "America is the great Satan" type of talk. I just see so much of it that my first reaction sometimes is just to roll my eyes, and that's something I should be careful about. And I get a lot of it in my personal life as well, as somebody from a Canadian family I hear an endless stream of shit talking whenever I'm around my Canadian family members that sometimes I get defensive. Because the immediate reaction from them is that if I don't find fault in everything America does, then I'm just one of "The Amerikan Sheeple". And yes I have been called that by members of my own family, as if I am not capable of being critical of the U.S.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
That's fair polaris-x, but it seems on so many threads I open (stressing the "I" there) it turns into America shit talking. Or even threads where the American shit talking is on topic, you get some really hard-line "America is the great Satan" type of talk. I just see so much of it that my first reaction sometimes is just to roll my eyes, and that's something I should be careful about. And I get a lot of it in my personal life as well, as somebody from a Canadian family I hear an endless stream of shit talking whenever I'm around my Canadian family members that sometimes I get defensive. Because the immediate reaction from them is that if I don't find fault in everything America does, then I'm just one of "The Amerikan Sheeple". And yes I have been called that by members of my own family, as if I am not capable of being critical of the U.S.
I'm curious, what is it that get's you so defensive? I mean are these people making things up about the US? Is it fact based?
Everyone is too sensitive, all we need to do is stick with facts. Less emotion. yea?
That's fair polaris-x, but it seems on so many threads I open (stressing the "I" there) it turns into America shit talking. Or even threads where the American shit talking is on topic, you get some really hard-line "America is the great Satan" type of talk. I just see so much of it that my first reaction sometimes is just to roll my eyes, and that's something I should be careful about. And I get a lot of it in my personal life as well, as somebody from a Canadian family I hear an endless stream of shit talking whenever I'm around my Canadian family members that sometimes I get defensive. Because the immediate reaction from them is that if I don't find fault in everything America does, then I'm just one of "The Amerikan Sheeple". And yes I have been called that by members of my own family, as if I am not capable of being critical of the U.S.
I'm curious, what is it that get's you so defensive? I mean are these people making things up about the US? Is it fact based?
Everyone is too sensitive, all we need to do is stick with facts. Less emotion. yea?
Well, I think the defensiveness comes just from the overwhelming amount of shit they complain about. The last time I was hanging out with some of my cousins they bitched about everything (I talked about this in a previous thread, so sorry for anybody that has to read it twice) from the World Series (How dare you Americans call it the WORLD Series) to the Internment Camps that the U.S. put Japanese-Americans in during WWII (they were unaware Canada had done the same thing), it just gets old. So that when there is something really worth complaining about, even if I'm mad about the same thing, I don't really pay attention to them. Or sometimes others. Like I was saying, that's something I need to be careful about.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
That's fair polaris-x, but it seems on so many threads I open (stressing the "I" there) it turns into America shit talking. Or even threads where the American shit talking is on topic, you get some really hard-line "America is the great Satan" type of talk. I just see so much of it that my first reaction sometimes is just to roll my eyes, and that's something I should be careful about. And I get a lot of it in my personal life as well, as somebody from a Canadian family I hear an endless stream of shit talking whenever I'm around my Canadian family members that sometimes I get defensive. Because the immediate reaction from them is that if I don't find fault in everything America does, then I'm just one of "The Amerikan Sheeple". And yes I have been called that by members of my own family, as if I am not capable of being critical of the U.S.
I'm curious, what is it that get's you so defensive? I mean are these people making things up about the US? Is it fact based?
Everyone is too sensitive, all we need to do is stick with facts. Less emotion. yea?
Well, I think the defensiveness comes just from the overwhelming amount of shit they complain about. The last time I was hanging out with some of my cousins they bitched about everything (I talked about this in a previous thread, so sorry for anybody that has to read it twice) from the World Series (How dare you Americans call it the WORLD Series) to the Internment Camps that the U.S. put Japanese-Americans in during WWII (they were unaware Canada had done the same thing), it just gets old. So that when there is something really worth complaining about, even if I'm mad about the same thing, I don't really pay attention to them. Or sometimes others. Like I was saying, that's something I need to be careful about.
it seems on so many threads I open (stressing the "I" there) it turns into America shit talking.
Way to narrow it down to just about every thread on AMT.
Actually I don't come to AMT that much, until the past week when the Porch went apeshit that is. If you look at my profile my most active forum/topic is The Porch and "Pearl Jam With Cats". Life is so much more simple when you are Photoshopping cats into Pearl Jam pictures. It's therapeutic, I suggest you try it..
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
it seems on so many threads I open (stressing the "I" there) it turns into America shit talking.
Way to narrow it down to just about every thread on AMT.
Actually I don't come to AMT that much, until the past week when the Porch went apeshit that is. If you look at my profile my most active forum/topic is The Porch and "Pearl Jam With Cats". Life is so much more simple when you are Photoshopping cats into Pearl Jam pictures. It's therapeutic, I suggest you try it..
dude that pic made me laugh. hard...thanks for posting that
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
it seems on so many threads I open (stressing the "I" there) it turns into America shit talking.
Way to narrow it down to just about every thread on AMT.
Actually I don't come to AMT that much, until the past week when the Porch went apeshit that is. If you look at my profile my most active forum/topic is The Porch and "Pearl Jam With Cats". Life is so much more simple when you are Photoshopping cats into Pearl Jam pictures. It's therapeutic, I suggest you try it..
That's fair polaris-x, but it seems on so many threads I open (stressing the "I" there) it turns into America shit talking. Or even threads where the American shit talking is on topic, you get some really hard-line "America is the great Satan" type of talk. I just see so much of it that my first reaction sometimes is just to roll my eyes, and that's something I should be careful about. And I get a lot of it in my personal life as well, as somebody from a Canadian family I hear an endless stream of shit talking whenever I'm around my Canadian family members that sometimes I get defensive. Because the immediate reaction from them is that if I don't find fault in everything America does, then I'm just one of "The Amerikan Sheeple". And yes I have been called that by members of my own family, as if I am not capable of being critical of the U.S.
it goes back to my point about godfather ... and i've said it many times before ... americans are so patriotic sometimes that they find it hard to look themselves in the mirror ... no one likes to feel guilt ... these days - it feels like you say something bad and people tune you out because it's the easy thing to do ... instead of actually looking at the criticism and objectively agreeing or disagreeing - it's much easier to cast someone as an american-hater ...
it goes back to my point about godfather ... and i've said it many times before ... americans are so patriotic sometimes that they find it hard to look themselves in the mirror ... no one likes to feel guilt ... these days - it feels like you say something bad and people tune you out because it's the easy thing to do ... instead of actually looking at the criticism and objectively agreeing or disagreeing - it's much easier to cast someone as an american-hater ...
do love that picture tho ...
Ignorance is bliss, oh how blissful the state the ignorant are in!, But only the truth will set one free. Truly free.
it goes back to my point about godfather ... and i've said it many times before ... americans are so patriotic sometimes that they find it hard to look themselves in the mirror ... no one likes to feel guilt ... these days - it feels like you say something bad and people tune you out because it's the easy thing to do ... instead of actually looking at the criticism and objectively agreeing or disagreeing - it's much easier to cast someone as an american-hater ...
do love that picture tho ...
I'm actually not all that patriotic. I don't own an American flag, or to my knowledge anything with an American flag on it. And I don't think I've ever chanted U-S-A, except for maybe in an ironic Colbert Report type of way. Both times the U.S. played Canada in the gold medal hockey game (in Salt Lake City and Vancouver) I was actually cheering for Canada. I'm just not a self-loathing American either. As I said, I'm capable of being critical of the U.S. (people that know me are all too aware of that) I'm just not critical of EVERYTHING the U.S. does. And there are plenty of people who are (both American and non-American), and I find it boring, and sometimes annoying. Discounting a person does not mean I discount the facts, or no longer contemplate the story. It just means I don't want their skewed view any more than I want the Fox News view. It might be rooted in facts, but it usually has a slant to it. And as you said, it is easy to cast somebody as an "american-hater", but it is just as easy to cast somebody as an "america-lover" just because they don't agree with you.
This is something I noticed recently, and while not exactly on topic, it does speak volumes. Do you remember when Osama bin Laden was killed, the threads about that? Remember all the people who came out of the woodwork NEEDING to tell all the Americans on the board (even though nobody was really saying anything to the contrary) that nothing has changed, terrorism still existed and would continue to exist, and bin Laden's death would not bring back all the dead of 9/11, etc? Every other post was somebody, whether they were Greek, Canadian, European, and yes, American, chiming in to make sure we knew (and the tone was usually that we weren't smart enough to realize on our own) that fact. One girl went so far as to stereotype us as a bunch of Cheeseburger and Coke swilling Soap Opera watching morons incapable of seeing that fact, and she was even congratulated for her "bravery".
Here's my question. How come nobody felt the need to do the same thing for the Ratko Mladic threads? It was all "glad they caught the scumbag", etc. And I certainly am glad they did, what a douche. But why did nobody feel the need to pop in to say that genocide would continue to exist, and that Mladic's arrest wasn't going to change what happened? Both were mass murderers who had eluded capture, and the news of their capture/death met with celebration. People only felt the need to take the piss out of Americans. If it really needed to be said, why aren't people saying it about Mladic? Two very similar situations, but treated differently because America was at the center of one of them. The way some people felt about the U.S. made them incapable of just discussing the story rationally, and were instead saying some things that were downright hateful. Even some of the more rational comments were still influenced by a rational but still biased view. I'm not saying people should clammer to the Mladic thread, or they should change their feelings about the bin Laden news, I'm just saying it is a good example of how differntly a discussion is handled when personal feelings about the U.S. become a factor.
That's a problem, and there are people with a clear chip on their shoulder. That does not lead to clear and objective thinking either. I think carrying a chip on your shoulder about the U.S. (or any group/country) is just as detrimental to intelligent discussion as somebody who looks at the world through red, white and blue shades. I get annoyed with any extremes. In U.S. politics, for example, I am usually Left-leaning, but I get just as annoyed with the far Left as I do the far Right. The pitfalls of extreme thinking is evident in our broken party system every day. And in discussions like this, I find the "America sucks" crowd just as annoying as the "God Bless America" crowd. I just don't discuss the latter on this board because they appear to be a minority (mainly just 1), while there are throngs of the former. Living in Texas I have plenty of God Bless America bullshit to discuss with people on a daily basis, and when I go to Canada or talk to my Canadian relatives it is "Oh Canada" bullshit. But while I sometimes ignore people, it's not to say I ignore the issues. I just don't want to discuss it with somebody who clearly has a chip on their shoulder. And though some people on this board try their best to hide it, it is plain as day. And as I said, I have a chip on my shoulder over THAT. And I need to be careful. But I can't help feeling it is old hat.
Just because I was discussing this does not mean that I am not looking at the issue. I have a lot of issues with this defense bill. But depending on who I'm discussing it with, depends on how open I will be to the discussion, not the facts, just what they are saying. It's a "boy who cried wolf" scenario. If somebody is consistently complaining about the U.S., I am naturally going to take them less seriously, because chances are their view on the story is biased. I just felt the discussion was going down the America Is Evil/God Bless America path. And since the God Bless America crowd is a minority here, I addressed the bigger issue, as it pertains to this board. And if this doesn't apply to whoever is reading this (if you made it this far into my long winded post that is) then please don't get offended, I'm probably not talking about you. I just don't see how "America can do no wrong" is any worse than "everything America does is wrong" or "you can't see it because you're American and incapable of looking in the mirror". That's basically just calling somebody a brainwashed idiot. In my experience the people who run around telling everybody to look in the mirror usually need to look in the mirror themselves.
And now another kitty picture to make us all happy again...
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
i hear ya ... if i was an overweight smoker who was diabetic - i'm sure i'd get tired of hearing people telling me to quit smoking and change my diet ... but again - it's easy to dismiss views as far left of extreme right ... etc ...
at the end of the day ... the message is not out there ... i can list example after example of how disengaged americans truly are and whether you choose to hear it or not is clearly your prerogative ... either way, what we do know is that not enough people are choosing to listen ... maybe it's for your reasons ... i dunno ...
as for as Ratko Mladic goes ... this is how i see it ... sure, we all agree osama bin laden is a bad man but the reality is that osama bin laden DOES NOT EXIST if not for US foreign policy decisions ... so, while some people are chanting U-S-A ... they aren't interested in seeing what made OBL to begin with ... ratko mladic went on a muslim genocide killing spree ... what is the subtext to him that is a concern for anyone?
i hear ya ... if i was an overweight smoker who was diabetic - i'm sure i'd get tired of hearing people telling me to quit smoking and change my diet ... but again - it's easy to dismiss views as far left of extreme right ... etc ...
at the end of the day ... the message is not out there ... i can list example after example of how disengaged americans truly are and whether you choose to hear it or not is clearly your prerogative ... either way, what we do know is that not enough people are choosing to listen ... maybe it's for your reasons ... i dunno ...
as for as Ratko Mladic goes ... this is how i see it ... sure, we all agree osama bin laden is a bad man but the reality is that osama bin laden DOES NOT EXIST if not for US foreign policy decisions ... so, while some people are chanting U-S-A ... they aren't interested in seeing what made OBL to begin with ... ratko mladic went on a muslim genocide killing spree ... what is the subtext to him that is a concern for anyone?
I don't think the diabetes analogy really applies. It presumes that the person who refuses to listen actually has the problem. What about the person who is not an overweight smoker with diabetes, but still has people constantly chirping in his/her ear about the dangers. Just because I don't want to listen to it all the time, does not mean I am part of the diabetes epidemic. Or maybe I just want to hear it from a doctor, and not every person who thinks they're a doctor because they watched a few episodes of Dr. Oz. I choose to ignore the shrill, be it from the right or left. If I ignore a story on Fox News, that doesn't mean I'm pretending the story doesn't exist, I just choose not to listen to their slant on the matter. And because I choose not to pay attention to some people on the Moving Train, I am not ignorant to the issues. After all, I don't get my news, or facts about the news from the Pearl Jam message boards.
My point on the Mladic/bin Laden thing wasn't as deep as what all the causes for either man being what they were. Few of the comments were really based on anything other than "Nuh Uh America, you didn't "win" anything". We can debate the past until we're blue in the face, but that wasn't what most of the conversation was about. It was "I hate to break it to you Americans but you're no safer now and terrorism still exists". Just as genocide is not over now that Mladic has been arrested. A sentiment that nobody felt the need to express.
People felt the need to take the piss out of Americans for feeling closure over bin Laden. People don't feel the need to take the piss out of those who celebrated the capture of Mladic. The relief felt by both sides is as simple as the fact that these men who committed these atrocities are going to get what's coming to them, not every aspect of history leading up to it. When Hitler killed himself I wonder if people would have popped up and said "don't celebrate, none of this would have happened if we had stepped in after Hitler annexed Austria". Or blame the harsh conditions of the Treaty Of Versailles for "creating" Hitler and the political climate that would allow him to rise to power. Probably not, Hitler was dead, it was a good thing.
I was discussing the surface issue of the way people were behaving to one another, not the complexities of the issue itself. And it is a complex issue that can't be summarized simply by saying "America did it to itself". That's the thinking I'm talking about. There is one extreme (America did it to itself) the other extreme (America was attacked for no reason at all, and God bless Alan Jackson) and the truth really lies somewhere in the middle. Each far side of the spectrum have a pretty simplistic way of summing up events, and both are equally wrong. But that is a discussion for another thread, or if you would like to discuss it in personal messages or whatever, I'm cool with that as well.
It is true there are Americans who are oblivious to some things, and there are many that aren't. That can probably be said about almost every country though. America didn't invent ignorance after all.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,436
Most of us tend to get caught up in our convoluted arguements about this sort of thing. Let's look at a kid's point of view. This is what a 12 year old once told me:
"Bombs are phallic symbols of death- big dicks that kill things rather than create life."
Smart kid.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Most of us tend to get caught up in our convoluted arguements about this sort of thing. Let's look at a kid's point of view. This is what a 12 year old once told me:
"Bombs are phallic symbols of death- big dicks that kill things rather than create life."
it goes back to my point about godfather ... and i've said it many times before ... americans are so patriotic sometimes that they find it hard to look themselves in the mirror ... no one likes to feel guilt ... these days - it feels like you say something bad and people tune you out because it's the easy thing to do ... instead of actually looking at the criticism and objectively agreeing or disagreeing - it's much easier to cast someone as an american-hater ...
do love that picture tho ...
Ignorance is bliss, oh how blissful the state the ignorant are in!, But only the truth will set one free. Truly free.
ummm point about godfather and but only the truth will set you free ? please get off yer know it all high horse
for most of you the truth is what ever fits your flowers and beads hippy way of thinking.
the truth is that things happen and many other things happen to create the one, but some of you just can't wrap your minds around the real truth of it and why...talk about fear, I never said I liked war but if I had to put my trust and my confidence in some of you to run this country...ooohhh crap ! the security and structure of the US would be right down the toilet.
hope you all enjoyed your memorial day weekend.
it goes back to my point about godfather ... and i've said it many times before ... americans are so patriotic sometimes that they find it hard to look themselves in the mirror ... no one likes to feel guilt ... these days - it feels like you say something bad and people tune you out because it's the easy thing to do ... instead of actually looking at the criticism and objectively agreeing or disagreeing - it's much easier to cast someone as an american-hater ...
do love that picture tho ...
Ignorance is bliss, oh how blissful the state the ignorant are in!, But only the truth will set one free. Truly free.
ummm point about godfather and but only the truth will set you free ? please get off yer know it all high horse
for most of you the truth is what ever fits your flowers and beads hippy way of thinking.
the truth is that things happen and many other things happen to create the one, but some of you just can't wrap your minds around the real truth of it and why...talk about fear, I never said I liked war but if I had to put my trust and my confidence in some of you to run this country...ooohhh crap ! the security and structure of the US would be right down the toilet.
hope you all enjoyed your memorial day weekend.
Godfather.
Tells us why some do not like the US and would like to cause us harm.......It has been pointed out in this thread, but you seem to overlook it.
Comments
Or we can call it what it really is, But first we need to see it for what it Truly is, American Hegemony used for Cultural imperialism to set up and maintain a corrupt Matrix style system using the worlds population to feed itself and expand the Empire.
Godfather.
Don't be so worried about how it sounds, just look at the facts, look at history. 150+Military Bases, a massive amount of Nukes, a 690Billion defense bill. Foreign wars, occupations, failed policies, CIA overthrows, secret prisons, Torture, no respect for international law, human rights......... :ugeek:
godfather is a patriot in all it entails ... both the good and the bad ... it is pretty much what allows america to be america ...
Well, just like there are those who feel America can do no wrong, there are those that find fault in everything we do. I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views. Whenever you see somebody invoke The Matrix in their view of the U.S. you aren't dealing with a mind any more reasonable than some guy with his "These Colors Don't Run" American flag t-shirt. And the broad assumption that ignorance allows the U.S. to be what it is, isn't much better. Just sounds like regular old hatred to me.
Then Your thinking is wrong, sorry.
Just stick with the facts, stick with the truth. That's all I care about. Don't talk about me, tell me about the good America does, and I'm sure I'll agree with it, if it's true. This knee jerk reaction to a phrase or words or whatever you don't like is just silly.
if that's how you want to dismiss it ... by all means ... the message is still the same ...
You guys should really be pitching in.
i don't know a single person who thinks america is all bad ... sorry - but that seems to be the general response when someone points out something ...
if this thread was about national parks - i'd have a lot more positive things to say ... but this thread is about "defense" and ultimately an arms race ... as a diehard peacenik and socialist - i find it brutally tragic that people still believe that building the biggest guns and having more of them somehow makes the world a better or safer place ... no legitimate statistic nor fact nor study anywhere in the world points to that yet - here it is ...
Foreign aid would also be cut by the same margin. It is not be an isolationist, it is being a non-interventionist. It can be achieved, but only one way.
Ron Paul 2012.
"I think we are seeing a discussion between the two extreme views" That's why I referred to your thinking as being wrong, not as a whole. Sorry about that.
So you can take that out of the equation. My intent surely was not an attack on your operation of mind, rather it came across as if your were doing that to me. Which is fine, just not correct.
As I only posted facts, then used 'The Matrix' as a foundation, referencing control and manipulation by the ones in charge. Which is exactly how it is. Fair no?
That's fair polaris-x, but it seems on so many threads I open (stressing the "I" there) it turns into America shit talking. Or even threads where the American shit talking is on topic, you get some really hard-line "America is the great Satan" type of talk. I just see so much of it that my first reaction sometimes is just to roll my eyes, and that's something I should be careful about. And I get a lot of it in my personal life as well, as somebody from a Canadian family I hear an endless stream of shit talking whenever I'm around my Canadian family members that sometimes I get defensive. Because the immediate reaction from them is that if I don't find fault in everything America does, then I'm just one of "The Amerikan Sheeple". And yes I have been called that by members of my own family, as if I am not capable of being critical of the U.S.
I'm curious, what is it that get's you so defensive? I mean are these people making things up about the US? Is it fact based?
Everyone is too sensitive, all we need to do is stick with facts. Less emotion. yea?
Well, I think the defensiveness comes just from the overwhelming amount of shit they complain about. The last time I was hanging out with some of my cousins they bitched about everything (I talked about this in a previous thread, so sorry for anybody that has to read it twice) from the World Series (How dare you Americans call it the WORLD Series) to the Internment Camps that the U.S. put Japanese-Americans in during WWII (they were unaware Canada had done the same thing), it just gets old. So that when there is something really worth complaining about, even if I'm mad about the same thing, I don't really pay attention to them. Or sometimes others. Like I was saying, that's something I need to be careful about.
Godfather.
I understand, we all sometimes do that.
Way to narrow it down to just about every thread on AMT.
Actually I don't come to AMT that much, until the past week when the Porch went apeshit that is. If you look at my profile my most active forum/topic is The Porch and "Pearl Jam With Cats". Life is so much more simple when you are Photoshopping cats into Pearl Jam pictures. It's therapeutic, I suggest you try it..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
LMAO! I love that thread..
it goes back to my point about godfather ... and i've said it many times before ... americans are so patriotic sometimes that they find it hard to look themselves in the mirror ... no one likes to feel guilt ... these days - it feels like you say something bad and people tune you out because it's the easy thing to do ... instead of actually looking at the criticism and objectively agreeing or disagreeing - it's much easier to cast someone as an american-hater ...
do love that picture tho ...
Ignorance is bliss, oh how blissful the state the ignorant are in!, But only the truth will set one free. Truly free.
I'm actually not all that patriotic. I don't own an American flag, or to my knowledge anything with an American flag on it. And I don't think I've ever chanted U-S-A, except for maybe in an ironic Colbert Report type of way. Both times the U.S. played Canada in the gold medal hockey game (in Salt Lake City and Vancouver) I was actually cheering for Canada. I'm just not a self-loathing American either. As I said, I'm capable of being critical of the U.S. (people that know me are all too aware of that) I'm just not critical of EVERYTHING the U.S. does. And there are plenty of people who are (both American and non-American), and I find it boring, and sometimes annoying. Discounting a person does not mean I discount the facts, or no longer contemplate the story. It just means I don't want their skewed view any more than I want the Fox News view. It might be rooted in facts, but it usually has a slant to it. And as you said, it is easy to cast somebody as an "american-hater", but it is just as easy to cast somebody as an "america-lover" just because they don't agree with you.
This is something I noticed recently, and while not exactly on topic, it does speak volumes. Do you remember when Osama bin Laden was killed, the threads about that? Remember all the people who came out of the woodwork NEEDING to tell all the Americans on the board (even though nobody was really saying anything to the contrary) that nothing has changed, terrorism still existed and would continue to exist, and bin Laden's death would not bring back all the dead of 9/11, etc? Every other post was somebody, whether they were Greek, Canadian, European, and yes, American, chiming in to make sure we knew (and the tone was usually that we weren't smart enough to realize on our own) that fact. One girl went so far as to stereotype us as a bunch of Cheeseburger and Coke swilling Soap Opera watching morons incapable of seeing that fact, and she was even congratulated for her "bravery".
Here's my question. How come nobody felt the need to do the same thing for the Ratko Mladic threads? It was all "glad they caught the scumbag", etc. And I certainly am glad they did, what a douche. But why did nobody feel the need to pop in to say that genocide would continue to exist, and that Mladic's arrest wasn't going to change what happened? Both were mass murderers who had eluded capture, and the news of their capture/death met with celebration. People only felt the need to take the piss out of Americans. If it really needed to be said, why aren't people saying it about Mladic? Two very similar situations, but treated differently because America was at the center of one of them. The way some people felt about the U.S. made them incapable of just discussing the story rationally, and were instead saying some things that were downright hateful. Even some of the more rational comments were still influenced by a rational but still biased view. I'm not saying people should clammer to the Mladic thread, or they should change their feelings about the bin Laden news, I'm just saying it is a good example of how differntly a discussion is handled when personal feelings about the U.S. become a factor.
That's a problem, and there are people with a clear chip on their shoulder. That does not lead to clear and objective thinking either. I think carrying a chip on your shoulder about the U.S. (or any group/country) is just as detrimental to intelligent discussion as somebody who looks at the world through red, white and blue shades. I get annoyed with any extremes. In U.S. politics, for example, I am usually Left-leaning, but I get just as annoyed with the far Left as I do the far Right. The pitfalls of extreme thinking is evident in our broken party system every day. And in discussions like this, I find the "America sucks" crowd just as annoying as the "God Bless America" crowd. I just don't discuss the latter on this board because they appear to be a minority (mainly just 1), while there are throngs of the former. Living in Texas I have plenty of God Bless America bullshit to discuss with people on a daily basis, and when I go to Canada or talk to my Canadian relatives it is "Oh Canada" bullshit. But while I sometimes ignore people, it's not to say I ignore the issues. I just don't want to discuss it with somebody who clearly has a chip on their shoulder. And though some people on this board try their best to hide it, it is plain as day. And as I said, I have a chip on my shoulder over THAT. And I need to be careful. But I can't help feeling it is old hat.
Just because I was discussing this does not mean that I am not looking at the issue. I have a lot of issues with this defense bill. But depending on who I'm discussing it with, depends on how open I will be to the discussion, not the facts, just what they are saying. It's a "boy who cried wolf" scenario. If somebody is consistently complaining about the U.S., I am naturally going to take them less seriously, because chances are their view on the story is biased. I just felt the discussion was going down the America Is Evil/God Bless America path. And since the God Bless America crowd is a minority here, I addressed the bigger issue, as it pertains to this board. And if this doesn't apply to whoever is reading this (if you made it this far into my long winded post that is) then please don't get offended, I'm probably not talking about you. I just don't see how "America can do no wrong" is any worse than "everything America does is wrong" or "you can't see it because you're American and incapable of looking in the mirror". That's basically just calling somebody a brainwashed idiot. In my experience the people who run around telling everybody to look in the mirror usually need to look in the mirror themselves.
And now another kitty picture to make us all happy again...
at the end of the day ... the message is not out there ... i can list example after example of how disengaged americans truly are and whether you choose to hear it or not is clearly your prerogative ... either way, what we do know is that not enough people are choosing to listen ... maybe it's for your reasons ... i dunno ...
as for as Ratko Mladic goes ... this is how i see it ... sure, we all agree osama bin laden is a bad man but the reality is that osama bin laden DOES NOT EXIST if not for US foreign policy decisions ... so, while some people are chanting U-S-A ... they aren't interested in seeing what made OBL to begin with ... ratko mladic went on a muslim genocide killing spree ... what is the subtext to him that is a concern for anyone?
I don't think the diabetes analogy really applies. It presumes that the person who refuses to listen actually has the problem. What about the person who is not an overweight smoker with diabetes, but still has people constantly chirping in his/her ear about the dangers. Just because I don't want to listen to it all the time, does not mean I am part of the diabetes epidemic. Or maybe I just want to hear it from a doctor, and not every person who thinks they're a doctor because they watched a few episodes of Dr. Oz. I choose to ignore the shrill, be it from the right or left. If I ignore a story on Fox News, that doesn't mean I'm pretending the story doesn't exist, I just choose not to listen to their slant on the matter. And because I choose not to pay attention to some people on the Moving Train, I am not ignorant to the issues. After all, I don't get my news, or facts about the news from the Pearl Jam message boards.
My point on the Mladic/bin Laden thing wasn't as deep as what all the causes for either man being what they were. Few of the comments were really based on anything other than "Nuh Uh America, you didn't "win" anything". We can debate the past until we're blue in the face, but that wasn't what most of the conversation was about. It was "I hate to break it to you Americans but you're no safer now and terrorism still exists". Just as genocide is not over now that Mladic has been arrested. A sentiment that nobody felt the need to express.
People felt the need to take the piss out of Americans for feeling closure over bin Laden. People don't feel the need to take the piss out of those who celebrated the capture of Mladic. The relief felt by both sides is as simple as the fact that these men who committed these atrocities are going to get what's coming to them, not every aspect of history leading up to it. When Hitler killed himself I wonder if people would have popped up and said "don't celebrate, none of this would have happened if we had stepped in after Hitler annexed Austria". Or blame the harsh conditions of the Treaty Of Versailles for "creating" Hitler and the political climate that would allow him to rise to power. Probably not, Hitler was dead, it was a good thing.
I was discussing the surface issue of the way people were behaving to one another, not the complexities of the issue itself. And it is a complex issue that can't be summarized simply by saying "America did it to itself". That's the thinking I'm talking about. There is one extreme (America did it to itself) the other extreme (America was attacked for no reason at all, and God bless Alan Jackson) and the truth really lies somewhere in the middle. Each far side of the spectrum have a pretty simplistic way of summing up events, and both are equally wrong. But that is a discussion for another thread, or if you would like to discuss it in personal messages or whatever, I'm cool with that as well.
It is true there are Americans who are oblivious to some things, and there are many that aren't. That can probably be said about almost every country though. America didn't invent ignorance after all.
"Bombs are phallic symbols of death- big dicks that kill things rather than create life."
Smart kid.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
ummm point about godfather and but only the truth will set you free ? please get off yer know it all high horse
for most of you the truth is what ever fits your flowers and beads hippy way of thinking.
the truth is that things happen and many other things happen to create the one, but some of you just can't wrap your minds around the real truth of it and why...talk about fear, I never said I liked war but if I had to put my trust and my confidence in some of you to run this country...ooohhh crap ! the security and structure of the US would be right down the toilet.
hope you all enjoyed your memorial day weekend.
Godfather.
Tells us why some do not like the US and would like to cause us harm.......It has been pointed out in this thread, but you seem to overlook it.