The bolded part is garbage. You don't have kids, so how do you now, other than what you read, scb? I know that my child, as well as my nieces and nephews never felt pressured by society at the tender ages of 2 - 5. Kids want what they want. Many boys show feminine tendencies while many girls show masculine interests. You can't blame society for that, that's just what the child naturally gravitates to. Parents can encourage a specific way of life, but if they let the child bloom on their own, they find what they lean towards without any help. The media does push sociological norms, but its up to parents themselves to limit television exposure.
I know when I was a kid I was told "boys play ho key and girls figure skate."
I never wanted the toy guns that boys got as presents, I wanted the toy puppies and butterflies. But society has a way of forcing gender roles on kids.
Clearly by the time the child is able to walk and speak it will be able to choose those but it might have been nice to not have outside influences force kids to be "blue" or "pink."
WHO if forcing you. My daughters favorit color is purple, not because society says girls can only like purple but because she likes purple flowers. People also need to understand the difference between sex and gender.
These parents are doing the exact opposite of breaking gender roles. They are inadvertently saying "these are boys activities and these are girls activites. Whatever activites you choose or gravitate to will determine your 'gender.' We are just not going to tell you which one is 'right.' Best of luck kid with your identity
Apparently they can't though. They said they have tried to raise their other children without gender expectations, but the kids still receive strong messages from society, being made to feel bad if they don't conform to the gender roles of their sex - and they're only 2 & 5! They have realized that protecting their young children from this social scrutiny & ridicule, unfortunately, requires them to not even let people know their sex - that way society doesn't have a chance to impose hurtful gender norms on the kids until the kids themselves want to share it. (I'm sure they would have done the same with their other kids if they had realized it was necessary, but we can't fault them for trying to improve their parenting mid-family.)
The bolded part is garbage. You don't have kids, so how do you now, other than what you read, scb? I know that my child, as well as my nieces and nephews never felt pressured by society at the tender ages of 2 - 5. Kids want what they want.
Is there really a need to get so personal? I wish people would refrain from saying "you don't have kids so you can't know." That is so tired and is terrible logic. Does she live in society and experience children? Yes. Was she a child once? Yes.
Sometimes there are very demanding expectations due to gender. No I don't have kids, but I recall my parents forcing my brother to play sports. He was not athletic, and I think it made him feel less like a boy who was supposed to be on a path to be a man. He hated it, and rebelled because of it. Was it a terrible situation? Not really, he found his way. But if you really think about it, there are some parents/societies that expect certain things that are extremely different of boys and girls and can cause quite a bit of anguish.
Ugh, nobody is forcing me... but I know that when there's a baby shower, people tend to get all.. weird.. and buy sailor suits for the boys and fairy costumes for girls. Maybe the parents here are just... getting sick of that?
seriously...if someone asks you if you have a boy or girl what is the harm in that? it isn't any different than them asking you what the colors are in your nursery...it is something that is nice to know, certainly not necessary...
sometimes I have to wonder how we made it this far with these horribly damaging gender roles ruining kids lives everyday...
Looks like someone needs to take a sociology class.
Experimenting with your children is never a good thing. Instead of putting all this time and research into seeing how potentially harmful this could be, why don't the putt that kind of time into parenting and raising the child to break gender sterotypes (if thats their concern) by reinforcing their child they can do which ever activities they want boy or girl. No matter how they raise that child, the child's enviroment will still play a huge role. If you want to escape society then do it by living on a island/ not relying on society, not by experimenting with your child.
They are raising the kid to do whatever he/she wants. That's the whole point in the article.
Sometimes there are very demanding expectations due to gender. No I don't have kids, but I recall my parents forcing my brother to play sports. He was not athletic, and I think it made him feel less like a boy who was supposed to be on a path to be a man. He hated it, and rebelled because of it. Was it a terrible situation? Not really, he found his way. But if you really think about it, there are some parents/societies that expect certain things that are extremely different of boys and girls and can cause quite a bit of anguish.
So they forced him to play sports because that's what they thought he needed to do to be a man? Or did they want him to get exercise, do something productive or inclusive, or just get him out of the house more often? Was there anything that he wanted to do instead that they wouldn't let him? If it was because they expected him to play sports just because he is a male, that's pretty stupid, but no more so than what these parents are doing to "Storm". Both points of view are extreme and are harmful.
Experimenting with your children is never a good thing. Instead of putting all this time and research into seeing how potentially harmful this could be, why don't the putt that kind of time into parenting and raising the child to break gender sterotypes (if thats their concern) by reinforcing their child they can do which ever activities they want boy or girl. No matter how they raise that child, the child's enviroment will still play a huge role. If you want to escape society then do it by living on a island/ not relying on society, not by experimenting with your child.
They are raising the kid to do whatever he/she wants. That's the whole point in the article.
Experimenting with your children is never a good thing. Instead of putting all this time and research into seeing how potentially harmful this could be, why don't the putt that kind of time into parenting and raising the child to break gender sterotypes (if thats their concern) by reinforcing their child they can do which ever activities they want boy or girl. No matter how they raise that child, the child's enviroment will still play a huge role. If you want to escape society then do it by living on a island/ not relying on society, not by experimenting with your child.
They are raising the kid to do whatever he/she wants. That's the whole point in the article.
Yes at expense of the child. Sex =/ Gender.
There is the ethical question of using your child as unknowing research experiment, but how is it at the expense of the child in your eyes?
Sometimes there are very demanding expectations due to gender. No I don't have kids, but I recall my parents forcing my brother to play sports. He was not athletic, and I think it made him feel less like a boy who was supposed to be on a path to be a man. He hated it, and rebelled because of it. Was it a terrible situation? Not really, he found his way. But if you really think about it, there are some parents/societies that expect certain things that are extremely different of boys and girls and can cause quite a bit of anguish.
So they forced him to play sports because that's what they thought he needed to do to be a man? Or did they want him to get exercise, do something productive or inclusive, or just get him out of the house more often? Was there anything that he wanted to do instead that they wouldn't let him? If it was because they expected him to play sports just because he is a male, that's pretty stupid, but no more so than what these parents are doing to "Storm". Both points of view are extreme and are harmful.
I shouldnt have said 'forced', but they did enroll him in soccer, football, and baseball, and he just didnt like it. He didnt really put up a fight, but it was energy misspent. My point is that my parents just thought it was "what you do with a boy." Yeah, excercise and community were probably other angles that they saw as important, but it was just overload and he didnt excel at any of these sports. The point is, there are certain paths that some parent think are obvious and they're not.
Is there really a need to get so personal? I wish people would refrain from saying "you don't have kids so you can't know." That is so tired and is terrible logic. Does she live in society and experience children? Yes. Was she a child once? Yes.
Sometimes there are very demanding expectations due to gender. No I don't have kids, but I recall my parents forcing my brother to play sports. He was not athletic, and I think it made him feel less like a boy who was supposed to be on a path to be a man. He hated it, and rebelled because of it. Was it a terrible situation? Not really, he found his way. But if you really think about it, there are some parents/societies that expect certain things that are extremely different of boys and girls and can cause quite a bit of anguish.
How is that Tired logic.. Do people on here understand how important physical activity is to the growth and development of a child. That reason alone all kids should do some sport/activity. I am not for Forcing my child to do something they don't want to, but at an early age, physical activity is the most important thing they can do. Some people here have a very skew perception of reality when it comes to children (its funny the ones that don't have kids see no issue with this). Experience children does not even come close to raising a child.
You know how some families start college funds for their children .... well this couple should start a therapy fund ... this kid is going to need it someday!
But the email sent recently by Kathy Witterick and David Stocker of Toronto, Canada to announce the birth of their baby, Storm, was missing one important piece of information. "We've decided not to share Storm's sex for now--a tribute to freedom and choice in place of limitation, a stand up to what the world could become in Storm's lifetime (a more progressive place? ...)," it said.
That's right. They're not saying whether Storm is a boy or a girl.
There's nothing ambiguous about the baby's genitals. But as Stocker puts it: "If you really want to get to know someone, you don't ask what's between their legs." So only the parents, their two other children (both boys), a close friend, and the two midwives who helped deliver the now 4-month-old baby know its gender. Even the grandparents have been left in the dark.
Stocker and Witterick say the decision gives Storm the freedom to choose who he or she wants to be. "What we noticed is that parents make so many choices for their children. It's obnoxious," adds Stocker, a teacher at an alternative school.
.... see link for rest of story
I just have to think this child will hear about this someday
and misunderstand, take it to heart somehow that his or her gender was not the right one....
therefore hidden.
Some things people might just like to rely on, that is ...
my parents were proud I was born who I was... a boy or a girl
and wanted to share me with the world, not set some sort of weird example at my expense.
I am a little girl that doesn't mean I do girlie things...plenty don't. Same with boys ...
its not society that dictates, it's parents and pressure within the home.
Little ones want to please and follow the example set by their parents.
I think these parents are sending the wrong message to their children, not at all standing in this child's shoes.
Also, strange the grandparents were left out of their little experiment.... hmmmm
Again how come the other children, that the world both know as boys, didn't have to start life like this?
And 'Storm' sure sounds like a girls name to me :? hmmm.... probably a boy.
There is the ethical question of using your child as unknowing research experiment, but how is it at the expense of the child in your eyes?
Becase your not doing whats best for your child, your trying to reach a conclusion based on someone elses life/experience in a society how you see fit to your ideals. Your job as a parent is to do what best for your child, Your child may not like it at times but a parent should always have their childs best intrests in mind when making any decision. This is not the case here, they are trying to change something in society they don't agree with, by using their child as a test subject to achieve THEIR results (not the child's)
Is there really a need to get so personal? I wish people would refrain from saying "you don't have kids so you can't know." That is so tired and is terrible logic. Does she live in society and experience children? Yes. Was she a child once? Yes.
Sometimes there are very demanding expectations due to gender. No I don't have kids, but I recall my parents forcing my brother to play sports. He was not athletic, and I think it made him feel less like a boy who was supposed to be on a path to be a man. He hated it, and rebelled because of it. Was it a terrible situation? Not really, he found his way. But if you really think about it, there are some parents/societies that expect certain things that are extremely different of boys and girls and can cause quite a bit of anguish.
How is that Tired logic.. Do people on here understand how important physical activity is to the growth and development of a child. That reason alone all kids should do some sport/activity. I am not for Forcing my child to do something they don't want to, but at an early age, physical activity is the most important thing they can do. Some people here have a very skew perception of reality when it comes to children (its funny the ones that don't have kids see no issue with this). Experience children does not even come close to raising a child.
Someone can't see that a 5 year old gets strong messages form society because they aren't a mother? I just think its rude to insinuate someones opinion of societies interactions with children is flawed because they haven't experienced motherhood. Btw, I do have an issue with what these parent are doing to their kid. I would never do what these people are doing to my child. I also agree that physical activity is important, but I feel its more important to know your kids well enough to know whats good for them and whats possibly bad for them instead of just following a general stereotype, which many many parents do.
seriously...if someone asks you if you have a boy or girl what is the harm in that?
The harm comes next, in the way they interact with the child based on the answer to their question.
the parents...not yourself..
and giving a baby girl or boy a pink blanket doesnt harm them in the least...all this will do is stigmatize the child...what is worse?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Experimenting with your children is never a good thing. Instead of putting all this time and research into seeing how potentially harmful this could be, why don't the putt that kind of time into parenting and raising the child to break gender sterotypes (if thats their concern) by reinforcing their child they can do which ever activities they want boy or girl. No matter how they raise that child, the child's enviroment will still play a huge role. If you want to escape society then do it by living on a island/ not relying on society, not by experimenting with your child.
They are raising the kid to do whatever he/she wants. That's the whole point in the article.
They are raising "it" to be ostracized from society.
Society is what it is, love it or hate it. These kids will only be able to interact within a tight-nit community of it's parent's friends. Other kids will make fun of and target their kids.
No some think it's great and progressive ... perhaps it is when you consider it as a theory. But these kids will be outsiders for at least their childhood and probably longer. And it will be 100% the fault of their parent's decision making.
seriously...if someone asks you if you have a boy or girl what is the harm in that?
The harm comes next, in the way they interact with the child based on the answer to their question.
Really? I think you're making some kind of baseless generalisation here. More often than not it's small talk. I don't ask parents about their children because I don't like to pretend to care. As stated elsewhere in this thread, most people ask because it's the type of thing one asks a new/expectant parent, not because of any vested interest in the reply.
Apparently they can't though. They said they have tried to raise their other children without gender expectations, but the kids still receive strong messages from society, being made to feel bad if they don't conform to the gender roles of their sex - and they're only 2 & 5! They have realized that protecting their young children from this social scrutiny & ridicule, unfortunately, requires them to not even let people know their sex - that way society doesn't have a chance to impose hurtful gender norms on the kids until the kids themselves want to share it. (I'm sure they would have done the same with their other kids if they had realized it was necessary, but we can't fault them for trying to improve their parenting mid-family.)
The bolded part is garbage. You don't have kids, so how do you now, other than what you read, scb? I know that my child, as well as my nieces and nephews never felt pressured by society at the tender ages of 2 - 5. Kids want what they want. Many boys show feminine tendencies while many girls show masculine interests. You can't blame society for that, that's just what the child naturally gravitates to. Parents can encourage a specific way of life, but if they let the child bloom on their own, they find what they lean towards without any help. The media does push sociological norms, but its up to parents themselves to limit television exposure.
Dude, could you please quit the shit about me not having kids already?? I know, because THESE kids' parents - note, they're not YOUR kids any more than they're my kids - said so in the article. And it's naive to think that simply "limiting television exposure" will protect their kids from the MILLIONS of messages they receive from numerous sources. Also, quit calling me scb. See what I mean about people refusing to respect the decisions others make for themselves, like their gender roles... or their names? It's this kind of attitude from people that makes these parents feel like they have to be extreme.
seriously...if someone asks you if you have a boy or girl what is the harm in that? it isn't any different than them asking you what the colors are in your nursery...it is something that is nice to know, certainly not necessary...
sometimes I have to wonder how we made it this far with these horribly damaging gender roles ruining kids lives everyday...
Looks like someone needs to take a sociology class.
sociology of gender, sociology of race class and gender, sociology of crime, sociology of murder(not actual title of course but basic name of course), intro to criminology, social theory, class sociology, conflict theory, juvenile justice, theory on juvenile delinquency, among countless others
sociology/criminology major in college...but whatever you say....maybe because I don't believe everything that comes out of a sociology professors mouth I should take more classes
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
There is the ethical question of using your child as unknowing research experiment, but how is it at the expense of the child in your eyes?
Becase your not doing whats best for your child, your trying to reach a conclusion based on someone elses life/experience in a society how you see fit to your ideals. Your job as a parent is to do what best for your child, Your child may not like it at times but a parent should always have their childs best intrests in mind when making any decision. This is not the case here, they are trying to change something in society they don't agree with, by using their child as a test subject to achieve THEIR results (not the child's)
So it's best for the child for the parents to teach him/her to conform to societal norms? Essentially, were all results of our parents experimenting.
seriously...if someone asks you if you have a boy or girl what is the harm in that? it isn't any different than them asking you what the colors are in your nursery...it is something that is nice to know, certainly not necessary...
sometimes I have to wonder how we made it this far with these horribly damaging gender roles ruining kids lives everyday...
Looks like someone needs to take a sociology class.
sociology of gender, sociology of race class and gender, sociology of crime, sociology of murder(not actual title of course but basic name of course), intro to criminology, social theory, class sociology, conflict theory, juvenile justice, theory on juvenile delinquency, among countless others
sociology/criminology major in college...but whatever you say....maybe because I don't believe everything that comes out of a sociology professors mouth I should take more classes
My take a class comment was a response to your class comment earlier. I'm curious why you minimize effects of gender roles with your knowledge? If that's your kid in the photo (to personalize this), I'm sure you're aware of the low expectations for fathers in our society.
There is the ethical question of using your child as unknowing research experiment, but how is it at the expense of the child in your eyes?
Becase your not doing whats best for your child, your trying to reach a conclusion based on someone elses life/experience in a society how you see fit to your ideals. Your job as a parent is to do what best for your child, Your child may not like it at times but a parent should always have their childs best intrests in mind when making any decision. This is not the case here, they are trying to change something in society they don't agree with, by using their child as a test subject to achieve THEIR results (not the child's)
So it's best for the child for the parents to teach him/her to conform to societal norms? Essentially, were all results of our parents experimenting.
Its clear you don't have kids... there is a difference in experimienting with something that your new at and don't know in order to bring sucess to your children. These people are performing a social experiment USING their child as the test subject. Break the social norms by reinforcing creative individuality when raising your child.
Blockhead, I don't think we need to bring whether or not people have children into this. I've seen it done a few times here, and I don't think it accomplishes anything. It just makes people mad, becaus it implies that since they haven't cranked out a baby, they can't understand.
I happen to agree with you, and I don't have children. And the people in this story clearly feel the exact opposite as you, and they do have children. So I don't think it's relevant to the discussion.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
Many people have no problem being a part of society. Therefore, are they not doing harm to the child if it grows up just wanting to be what it is?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Blockhead, I don't think we need to bring whether or not people have children into this. I've seen it done a few times here, and I don't think it accomplishes anything. It just makes people mad, becaus it implies that since they haven't cranked out a baby, they can't understand.
I happen to agree with you, and I don't have children. And the people in this story clearly feel the exact opposite as you, and they do have children. So I don't think it's relevant to the discussion.
I completely agree with you SatansFuton, good points.
Apparently they can't though. They said they have tried to raise their other children without gender expectations, but the kids still receive strong messages from society, being made to feel bad if they don't conform to the gender roles of their sex - and they're only 2 & 5! They have realized that protecting their young children from this social scrutiny & ridicule, unfortunately, requires them to not even let people know their sex - that way society doesn't have a chance to impose hurtful gender norms on the kids until the kids themselves want to share it. (I'm sure they would have done the same with their other kids if they had realized it was necessary, but we can't fault them for trying to improve their parenting mid-family.)
The bolded part is garbage. You don't have kids, so how do you now, other than what you read, scb? I know that my child, as well as my nieces and nephews never felt pressured by society at the tender ages of 2 - 5. Kids want what they want. Many boys show feminine tendencies while many girls show masculine interests. You can't blame society for that, that's just what the child naturally gravitates to. Parents can encourage a specific way of life, but if they let the child bloom on their own, they find what they lean towards without any help. The media does push sociological norms, but its up to parents themselves to limit television exposure.
Dude, could you please quit the shit about me not having kids already?? I know, because THESE kids' parents - note, they're not YOUR kids any more than they're my kids - said so in the article. And it's naive to think that simply "limiting television exposure" will protect their kids from the MILLIONS of messages they receive from numerous sources. Also, quit calling me scb. See what I mean about people refusing to respect the decisions others make for themselves, like their gender roles... or their names? It's this kind of attitude from people that makes these parents feel like they have to be extreme.
I'm just saying, you can have your opinion, but those with experience ultimately are the experts here. Sorry for being rude, but it's the truth. And I must admit it's weird to call you a symbol. It's like calling Prince by his symbol; it just doesn't make any sense, so people had to go back and refer to him by his name, rather than "Formerly known as Prince". What does "_" sound like anyway? Would you rather me call you "Formerly known as "scb"? I am kidding.
You cannot know much about raising a child unless you have raised one. Just about, everyone that has a child or raised one will tell you "the experience is one of a kind
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I just have to think this child will hear about this someday
and misunderstand, take it to heart somehow that his or her gender was not the right one....
therefore hidden.
Some things people might just like to rely on, that is ...
my parents were proud I was born who I was... a boy or a girl
and wanted to share me with the world, not set some sort of weird example at my expense.
I am a little girl that doesn't mean I do girlie things...plenty don't. Same with boys ...
its not society that dictates, it's parents and pressure within the home.
Little ones want to please and follow the example set by their parents.
I think these parents are sending the wrong message to their children, not at all standing in this child's shoes.
Also, strange the grandparents were left out of their little experiment.... hmmmm
Again how come the other children, that the world both know as boys, didn't have to start life like this?
And 'Storm' sure sounds like a girls name to me :? hmmm.... probably a boy.
I agree Pandora, it seems that the parents are not pleased with the sex of the child, and therefore may be possibly using the child as a social experiment for whatever reason. It does seem very strange that the grandparents are not in the know. Sounds like some domestic issues going on...
And to be honest, the first impression I got from this article is that the baby is possibly hermaphrodite. Any body else get that feeling?
Its clear you don't have kids... there is a difference in experimienting with something that your new at and don't know in order to bring sucess to your children. These people are performing a social experiment USING their child as the test subject. Break the social norms by reinforcing creative individuality when raising your child.
Nothing in that says I do or don't have kids, but I understand you going personal on me, because like you said in another thread, personal experience trumps everything else. I was using the term experimenting in the broad sense. Our parents tried/did different things based on a range of things (their own experience, what they've seen other does, suggestions, how they were raised, etc.) in the hopes that it would be good for us. They parents here are performing and experiment, but the variable they are manipulating is the people around the child, and not the child directly. They are doing this not only to encourage the child's individuality, but to also have people be forced to look at why it's so important to know the sex of the child.
I'm just saying, you can have your opinion, but those with experience ultimately are the experts here. Sorry for being rude, but it's the truth. And I must admit it's weird to call you a symbol. It's like calling Prince by his symbol; it just doesn't make any sense, so people had to go back and refer to him by his name, rather than "Formerly known as Prince". What does "_" sound like anyway? Would you rather me call you "Formerly known as "scb"? I am kidding.
I'm not so sure that "those with experience ultimately are the experts". I seen a lot of parents that are definitely not experts at parenting.
Comments
These parents are doing the exact opposite of breaking gender roles. They are inadvertently saying "these are boys activities and these are girls activites. Whatever activites you choose or gravitate to will determine your 'gender.' We are just not going to tell you which one is 'right.' Best of luck kid with your identity
Is there really a need to get so personal? I wish people would refrain from saying "you don't have kids so you can't know." That is so tired and is terrible logic. Does she live in society and experience children? Yes. Was she a child once? Yes.
Sometimes there are very demanding expectations due to gender. No I don't have kids, but I recall my parents forcing my brother to play sports. He was not athletic, and I think it made him feel less like a boy who was supposed to be on a path to be a man. He hated it, and rebelled because of it. Was it a terrible situation? Not really, he found his way. But if you really think about it, there are some parents/societies that expect certain things that are extremely different of boys and girls and can cause quite a bit of anguish.
Ugh, nobody is forcing me... but I know that when there's a baby shower, people tend to get all.. weird.. and buy sailor suits for the boys and fairy costumes for girls. Maybe the parents here are just... getting sick of that?
Looks like someone needs to take a sociology class.
They are raising the kid to do whatever he/she wants. That's the whole point in the article.
So they forced him to play sports because that's what they thought he needed to do to be a man? Or did they want him to get exercise, do something productive or inclusive, or just get him out of the house more often? Was there anything that he wanted to do instead that they wouldn't let him? If it was because they expected him to play sports just because he is a male, that's pretty stupid, but no more so than what these parents are doing to "Storm". Both points of view are extreme and are harmful.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
There is the ethical question of using your child as unknowing research experiment, but how is it at the expense of the child in your eyes?
I shouldnt have said 'forced', but they did enroll him in soccer, football, and baseball, and he just didnt like it. He didnt really put up a fight, but it was energy misspent. My point is that my parents just thought it was "what you do with a boy." Yeah, excercise and community were probably other angles that they saw as important, but it was just overload and he didnt excel at any of these sports. The point is, there are certain paths that some parent think are obvious and they're not.
I just have to think this child will hear about this someday
and misunderstand, take it to heart somehow that his or her gender was not the right one....
therefore hidden.
Some things people might just like to rely on, that is ...
my parents were proud I was born who I was... a boy or a girl
and wanted to share me with the world, not set some sort of weird example at my expense.
I am a little girl that doesn't mean I do girlie things...plenty don't. Same with boys ...
its not society that dictates, it's parents and pressure within the home.
Little ones want to please and follow the example set by their parents.
I think these parents are sending the wrong message to their children, not at all standing in this child's shoes.
Also, strange the grandparents were left out of their little experiment.... hmmmm
Again how come the other children, that the world both know as boys, didn't have to start life like this?
And 'Storm' sure sounds like a girls name to me :? hmmm.... probably a boy.
Someone can't see that a 5 year old gets strong messages form society because they aren't a mother? I just think its rude to insinuate someones opinion of societies interactions with children is flawed because they haven't experienced motherhood. Btw, I do have an issue with what these parent are doing to their kid. I would never do what these people are doing to my child. I also agree that physical activity is important, but I feel its more important to know your kids well enough to know whats good for them and whats possibly bad for them instead of just following a general stereotype, which many many parents do.
To whom are you referring? The father of the children is a teacher, so I'm sure he took plenty of child development classes.
The harm comes next, in the way they interact with the child based on the answer to their question.
the parents...not yourself..
and giving a baby girl or boy a pink blanket doesnt harm them in the least...all this will do is stigmatize the child...what is worse?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
They are raising "it" to be ostracized from society.
Society is what it is, love it or hate it. These kids will only be able to interact within a tight-nit community of it's parent's friends. Other kids will make fun of and target their kids.
No some think it's great and progressive ... perhaps it is when you consider it as a theory. But these kids will be outsiders for at least their childhood and probably longer. And it will be 100% the fault of their parent's decision making.
Really? I think you're making some kind of baseless generalisation here. More often than not it's small talk. I don't ask parents about their children because I don't like to pretend to care. As stated elsewhere in this thread, most people ask because it's the type of thing one asks a new/expectant parent, not because of any vested interest in the reply.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
Dude, could you please quit the shit about me not having kids already?? I know, because THESE kids' parents - note, they're not YOUR kids any more than they're my kids - said so in the article. And it's naive to think that simply "limiting television exposure" will protect their kids from the MILLIONS of messages they receive from numerous sources. Also, quit calling me scb. See what I mean about people refusing to respect the decisions others make for themselves, like their gender roles... or their names? It's this kind of attitude from people that makes these parents feel like they have to be extreme.
sociology of gender, sociology of race class and gender, sociology of crime, sociology of murder(not actual title of course but basic name of course), intro to criminology, social theory, class sociology, conflict theory, juvenile justice, theory on juvenile delinquency, among countless others
sociology/criminology major in college...but whatever you say....maybe because I don't believe everything that comes out of a sociology professors mouth I should take more classes
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
So it's best for the child for the parents to teach him/her to conform to societal norms? Essentially, were all results of our parents experimenting.
My take a class comment was a response to your class comment earlier. I'm curious why you minimize effects of gender roles with your knowledge? If that's your kid in the photo (to personalize this), I'm sure you're aware of the low expectations for fathers in our society.
I happen to agree with you, and I don't have children. And the people in this story clearly feel the exact opposite as you, and they do have children. So I don't think it's relevant to the discussion.
That is a great line Blockhead, I agree. That was my whole point about my brother.
I completely agree with you SatansFuton, good points.
I'm just saying, you can have your opinion, but those with experience ultimately are the experts here. Sorry for being rude, but it's the truth. And I must admit it's weird to call you a symbol. It's like calling Prince by his symbol; it just doesn't make any sense, so people had to go back and refer to him by his name, rather than "Formerly known as Prince".
I agree Pandora, it seems that the parents are not pleased with the sex of the child, and therefore may be possibly using the child as a social experiment for whatever reason. It does seem very strange that the grandparents are not in the know. Sounds like some domestic issues going on...
And to be honest, the first impression I got from this article is that the baby is possibly hermaphrodite. Any body else get that feeling?
Nothing in that says I do or don't have kids, but I understand you going personal on me, because like you said in another thread, personal experience trumps everything else. I was using the term experimenting in the broad sense. Our parents tried/did different things based on a range of things (their own experience, what they've seen other does, suggestions, how they were raised, etc.) in the hopes that it would be good for us. They parents here are performing and experiment, but the variable they are manipulating is the people around the child, and not the child directly. They are doing this not only to encourage the child's individuality, but to also have people be forced to look at why it's so important to know the sex of the child.
I'm not so sure that "those with experience ultimately are the experts". I seen a lot of parents that are definitely not experts at parenting.