I'm not sure that religion is the issue when it comes to hatred of Israel, though often religion is co-opted as a means of expressing and spreading that hatred. Much more important, I think, is that the Middle East is rife with, to be frank, antisemitic propaganda, depicting Israel (and Jews more generally) as evil, bloodthirsty, etc. etc...all the old antisemitic motifs. This isn't to say that everyone is an anti-semite, nor is it to say that people in the region do not have some legitimate reasons to be angry at Israel, but the prevalence of antisemitic ideas and material floating around the region is staggering.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
I'm not sure that religion is the issue when it comes to hatred of Israel, though often religion is co-opted as a means of expressing and spreading that hatred. Much more important, I think, is that the Middle East is rife with, to be frank, antisemitic propaganda, depicting Israel (and Jews more generally) as evil, bloodthirsty, etc. etc...all the old antisemitic motifs. This isn't to say that everyone is an anti-semite, nor is it to say that people in the region do not have some legitimate reasons to be angry at Israel, but the prevalence of antisemitic ideas and material floating around the region is staggering.
And from what I've seen & read, the level of anti-Arabism within Israel is not much different.
Perhaps, but from what I've seen first hand, hatred of Arabs in Israel is generally born of the conflict, and lacks the utterly irrational, paranoid-conspiracy elements characteristic of modern anti-semitism. Which isn't to excuse it, only to say that were the conflict ended I'm fairly confident that most of that hatred would evaporate. I'm not sure at this point that hatred of Israel/Jews in the Arab world is tied to the conflict. It is certainly fed by the conflict, but I believe that at this point it exists independent of the reality of what goes on in Israel/Palestine.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Perhaps, but from what I've seen first hand, hatred of Arabs in Israel is generally born of the conflict, and lacks the utterly irrational, paranoid-conspiracy elements characteristic of modern anti-semitism. Which isn't to excuse it, only to say that were the conflict ended I'm fairly confident that most of that hatred would evaporate. I'm not sure at this point that hatred of Israel/Jews in the Arab world is tied to the conflict. It is certainly fed by the conflict, but I believe that at this point it exists independent of the reality of what goes on in Israel/Palestine.
Jews lived side by side with Arabs in that part of the world for the better part of 2000 years, unless someone can convince me otherwise. I don't see why they can't live that way again if the Israeli's pull back and allow the Palestinians to develop their own state.
And if the Palestinians are allowed their own state, and any attacks upon Israel occur, I will be the first one here to criticize them for it.
Jews did live relatively peacefully under Muslim rule, but the key term is relatively. They lived as a protected class (dhimmis), but were explicitly second class citizens. And Jewish life in Muslim lands was also marked by violence, albeit far less than what was to be found in Christian Europe.
In the modern era some 600,000 Jews fled Arab countries in the wake of Israel's creation due to persecution, and this was at a time when the occupation didn't exist, and the Arab powers ruling Gaza (Egypt) and the West Bank (Jordan) could have easily ushered in the creation of a Palestinian state. Beyond this, as I've said, Arab hatred of Israel is now rooted in a virulent antisemitism that is only loosely tied to the reality of Israel/Palestine.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
In the modern era some 600,000 Jews fled Arab countries in the wake of Israel's creation due to persecution, and this was at a time when the occupation didn't exist, and the Arab powers ruling Gaza (Egypt) and the West Bank (Jordan) could have easily ushered in the creation of a Palestinian state. Beyond this, as I've said, Arab hatred of Israel is now rooted in a virulent antisemitism that is only loosely tied to the reality of Israel/Palestine.
Iraqi-born Ran Cohen, a former member of the Knesset, said: "I have this to say: I am not a refugee. I came at the behest of Zionism, due to the pull that this land exerts, and due to the idea of redemption. Nobody is going to define me as a refugee". Yemeni-born Yisrael Yeshayahu, former Knesset speaker, Labor Party, stated: "We are not refugees. [Some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations". And Iraqi-born Shlomo Hillel, also a former speaker of the Knesset, Labor Party, claimed: "I do not regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came here because they wanted to, as Zionists."[112][dead link]
Historian Tom Segev stated: "Deciding to emigrate to Israel was often a very personal decision. It was based on the particular circumstances of the individual’s life. They were not all poor, or ‘dwellers in dark caves and smoking pits.’ Nor were they always subject to persecution, repression or discrimination in their native lands. They emigrated for a variety of reasons, depending on the country, the time, the community, and the person."
Not that any of this has anything to do with the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza.
This seems like a good place to put this, since there's an actual debate happening here.
Feel free to begin a topic to debate about debating and how it applies to everyone here. There are usually few absolutes but it's absolutely required to debate here without getting personal. It's a poor discussion tactic to go after the person you're speaking with during a discussion. It signifies that you're, hmmm, I don't want to use the word "Losing"...that you're not on top of your topic. Be secure if you have your facts and be careful about what you believe on the internet...just discuss. There are so many serious topics to discuss. Thanks everyone. x
Debate Advice and Suggestions
Advice on Debating with Others
1. Avoid the use of Never.
2. Avoid the use of Always.
3. Refrain from saying you are wrong.
4. You can say your idea is mistaken.
5. Don't disagree with obvious truths.
6. Attack the idea not the person.
7. Use many rather than most.
8. Avoid exaggeration.
9. Use some rather than many.
10. The use of often allows for exceptions.
11. The use of generally allows for exceptions.
12. Quote sources and numbers.
13. If it is just an opinion, admit it.
14. Do not present opinion as facts.
15. Smile when disagreeing.
16. Stress the positive.
17. You do not need to win every battle to win the war.
18. Concede minor or trivial points.
19. Avoid bickering, quarreling, and wrangling.
20. Watch your tone of voice.
21. Don't win a debate and lose a friend.
22. Keep your perspective - You're just debating.
You need to be very polite when disagreeing with someone in English, even someone you know quite well.
With someone you know very well, you can disagree more directly.
This seems like a good place to put this, since there's an actual debate happening here.
Feel free to begin a topic to debate about debating and how it applies to everyone here. There are usually few absolutes but it's absolutely required to debate here without getting personal. It's a poor discussion tactic to go after the person you're speaking with during a discussion. It signifies that you're, hmmm, I don't want to use the word "Losing"...that you're not on top of your topic. Be secure if you have your facts and be careful about what you believe on the internet...just discuss. There are so many serious topics to discuss. Thanks everyone. x
Debate Advice and Suggestions
Advice on Debating with Others
1. Avoid the use of Never.
2. Avoid the use of Always.
3. Refrain from saying you are wrong.
4. You can say your idea is mistaken.
5. Don't disagree with obvious truths.
6. Attack the idea not the person.
7. Use many rather than most.
8. Avoid exaggeration.
9. Use some rather than many.
10. The use of often allows for exceptions.
11. The use of generally allows for exceptions.
12. Quote sources and numbers.
13. If it is just an opinion, admit it.
14. Do not present opinion as facts.
15. Smile when disagreeing.
16. Stress the positive.
17. You do not need to win every battle to win the war.
18. Concede minor or trivial points.
19. Avoid bickering, quarreling, and wrangling.
20. Watch your tone of voice.
21. Don't win a debate and lose a friend.
22. Keep your perspective - You're just debating.
You need to be very polite when disagreeing with someone in English, even someone you know quite well.
With someone you know very well, you can disagree more directly.
...
All I see is the one way street... where Glenn Beck gets to do all of the talking. Where on that site to I get to say something back, directly to Glenn Beck?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
And from what I've seen & read, the level of anti-Arabism within Israel is not much different.
Jews lived side by side with Arabs in that part of the world for the better part of 2000 years, unless someone can convince me otherwise. I don't see why they can't live that way again if the Israeli's pull back and allow the Palestinians to develop their own state.
And if the Palestinians are allowed their own state, and any attacks upon Israel occur, I will be the first one here to criticize them for it.
Jews did live relatively peacefully under Muslim rule, but the key term is relatively. They lived as a protected class (dhimmis), but were explicitly second class citizens. And Jewish life in Muslim lands was also marked by violence, albeit far less than what was to be found in Christian Europe.
In the modern era some 600,000 Jews fled Arab countries in the wake of Israel's creation due to persecution, and this was at a time when the occupation didn't exist, and the Arab powers ruling Gaza (Egypt) and the West Bank (Jordan) could have easily ushered in the creation of a Palestinian state. Beyond this, as I've said, Arab hatred of Israel is now rooted in a virulent antisemitism that is only loosely tied to the reality of Israel/Palestine.
This isn't strictly true though, is it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exo ... _countries
The assertion that Jewish emigrants from Arab countries should be considered refugees has received mixed reactions from various quarters.
Iraqi-born Ran Cohen, a former member of the Knesset, said: "I have this to say: I am not a refugee. I came at the behest of Zionism, due to the pull that this land exerts, and due to the idea of redemption. Nobody is going to define me as a refugee". Yemeni-born Yisrael Yeshayahu, former Knesset speaker, Labor Party, stated: "We are not refugees. [Some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations". And Iraqi-born Shlomo Hillel, also a former speaker of the Knesset, Labor Party, claimed: "I do not regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came here because they wanted to, as Zionists."[112][dead link]
Historian Tom Segev stated: "Deciding to emigrate to Israel was often a very personal decision. It was based on the particular circumstances of the individual’s life. They were not all poor, or ‘dwellers in dark caves and smoking pits.’ Nor were they always subject to persecution, repression or discrimination in their native lands. They emigrated for a variety of reasons, depending on the country, the time, the community, and the person."
Not that any of this has anything to do with the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza.
How do I forward this to the people at Fox News? Specifically, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity.
Hail, Hail!!!
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/glenn-beck/index.html
Godfather.
All I see is the one way street... where Glenn Beck gets to do all of the talking. Where on that site to I get to say something back, directly to Glenn Beck?
Hail, Hail!!!