Some guy named Al Qaeda confirmed the death...I think that bears some weight...
I guess you do make a good point though...I wonder if Michael Jackson is dead...I have to question this as I've never seen a death photo of him...maybe he and Farrah Fawcett (again, no death photo) are living the high life on some exotic island...
perhaps it should become common practice to print death photos in the Obituary section...
Believing that a terrorist like OBL is dead without proof is just utterly insane. There is no comparison when you talk about celebrities in the same way.
even though my gut tells me he is dead
i understand where jeanwah is coming from
the hollywood reference does not apply
this is about questioning a corrupt government and its inconsistant actions
What does this say about your character, as well as everyone else's who are happy without proof? Easily led.
Gimme a break. Calling us 'easily led' is childish.
Do you have an answer to how risky it would be for politicians to cover this up?
If he's not dead, what happens to the US govt when bin laden shows up next week?
What about the 20+ people that were in the compound at the time of the assault who are in the hands of the Pakistanis?
Do you realize the scope it would take and risks to cover this kind of thing up?
As far as the Saddam thing.. That was shaky, shitty video. Again, have you seen Wag the Dog? What IS real proof these days? Is is possible that since bin ladens head was nearly blown off, he doest quite even look like bin laden anymore? You're starting to sound like a typical conspiracy theorist.
Do you think bin laden is still alive?
did you believe that pat tillman was killed by enemy fire?
how risky was it for the us government to cover up the truth about his death?
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
What does this say about your character, as well as everyone else's who are happy without proof? Easily led.
Gimme a break. Calling us 'easily led' is childish.
Do you have an answer to how risky it would be for politicians to cover this up?
If he's not dead, what happens to the US govt when bin laden shows up next week?
What about the 20+ people that were in the compound at the time of the assault who are in the hands of the Pakistanis?
Do you realize the scope it would take and risks to cover this kind of thing up?
As far as the Saddam thing.. That was shaky, shitty video. Again, have you seen Wag the Dog? What IS real proof these days? Is is possible that since bin ladens head was nearly blown off, he doest quite even look like bin laden anymore? You're starting to sound like a typical conspiracy theorist.
Do you think bin laden is still alive?
I'm not saying that they're pushing a cover up. I've said before that I'd like this news that he's dead to be true.
Why is this so hard for people to comprehend? If a notorious terrorist is dead, then there should be proof of it. End of story.
there is proof...you just don't want to believe it...
I get it, you want a picture...perhaps one signed by Obama...but you're not going to get one...
I guess you'll be on the lookout of OBL forever...if you see him, take a picture with him...
What does this say about your character, as well as everyone else's who are happy without proof? Easily led.
Gimme a break. Calling us 'easily led' is childish.
Do you have an answer to how risky it would be for politicians to cover this up?
If he's not dead, what happens to the US govt when bin laden shows up next week?
What about the 20+ people that were in the compound at the time of the assault who are in the hands of the Pakistanis?
Do you realize the scope it would take and risks to cover this kind of thing up?
As far as the Saddam thing.. That was shaky, shitty video. Again, have you seen Wag the Dog? What IS real proof these days? Is is possible that since bin ladens head was nearly blown off, he doest quite even look like bin laden anymore? You're starting to sound like a typical conspiracy theorist.
Do you think bin laden is still alive?
did you believe that pat tillman was killed by enemy fire?
how risky was it for the us government to cover up the truth about his death?
did the truth about Tillman come to light...? was it the "government" that covered this up or was it the perpetrators of the crime...?
Gimme a break. Calling us 'easily led' is childish.
Do you have an answer to how risky it would be for politicians to cover this up?
If he's not dead, what happens to the US govt when bin laden shows up next week?
What about the 20+ people that were in the compound at the time of the assault who are in the hands of the Pakistanis?
Do you realize the scope it would take and risks to cover this kind of thing up?
As far as the Saddam thing.. That was shaky, shitty video. Again, have you seen Wag the Dog? What IS real proof these days? Is is possible that since bin ladens head was nearly blown off, he doest quite even look like bin laden anymore? You're starting to sound like a typical conspiracy theorist.
Do you think bin laden is still alive?
I'm not saying that they're pushing a cover up. I've said before that I'd like this news that he's dead to be true.
Why is this so hard for people to comprehend? If a notorious terrorist is dead, then there should be proof of it. End of story.
there is proof...you just don't want to believe it...
I get it, you want a picture...perhaps one signed by Obama...but you're not going to get one...
I guess you'll be on the lookout of OBL forever...if you see him, take a picture with him...
There is no documented proof released to the public. Keep talking... :roll:
Not so. And I personally don't like to be catagorized. I'm truly shocked that the majority of this intelligent community known as AMT accepts all of this without proof.
Some guy named Al Qaeda confirmed the death...I think that bears some weight...
I guess you do make a good point though...I wonder if Michael Jackson is dead...I have to question this as I've never seen a death photo of him...maybe he and Farrah Fawcett (again, no death photo) are living the high life on some exotic island...
perhaps it should become common practice to print death photos in the Obituary section...
Believing that a terrorist like OBL is dead without proof is just utterly insane. There is no comparison when you talk about celebrities in the same way.
even though my gut tells me he is dead
i understand where jeanwah is coming from
the hollywood reference does not apply
this is about questioning a corrupt government and its inconsistant actions
I thought for sure OBL was dead years ago then I gather that's why I was quite suprised he was reported to be killed some days ago. I WAS THINKING HE WAS ALREADY DEAD. I can see this discussion of his death will linger for some time to come as long as we still have this air of the unknown mystery centered around his killing and body disposal.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Al Qaeda released a statement on jihadist forums confirming the death of its leader, Osama bin Laden, according to SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors militant messages.
The statement was issued by the al Qaeda organization - General Command on Tuesday May 3, 2011. Read in Arabic here (PDF) or the translation below:
Al-Qaeda statement calls the day " a historic day of the days of the great Islamic umma (nation) and in a noble stand of one of its great men and heroes across its blessed age and on the path taken by the will of all the mighty predecessors and those who will follow them, the Sheikh, the Mujahid & the Commander, the pious migrant fighter, Abu Abdullah Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden, may God have mercy on him was killed in a place where truth shines and where sincerity for good deeds and the call for truthfulness exist. Bin Laden was killed so he can follow the mighty caravan of the umma (the nation) with the great leaders, the loyal soldiers, and the honest knights who refused to abandon their faith for the mundane lives and to hand over the command to those who will be humiliate them and be humiliated and that's why they confronted the weaponry with weaponry, force with force and accepted to challenge the arrogant masses that came out to fight with their killing machines, equipments, aircrafts and forces boastfully so they can be seen as men, and still this didn’t weaken their resolve and didn’t drain their strength, but instead he stood up for them face to face, a mighty mountain, a proud mountain and he was still in the midst of the battle that many got used to and his eyes were used to its sceneries but after that, he was yet to be excused and delivered his message and then he was shot bullets of betrayal and blasphemy delivering his soul to its maker while repeating: 'Who sacrifice the blessed soul for his Lord to fight off the falsehood CANNOT ever be blamed'."
"Congratulations to the Islamic Nation on the martyrdom of their devoted son Osama,
Even when the Americans managed to kill Osama, they managed to do ONLY that by disgrace and betrayal. Men and heroes only should be confronted in the battlefields but at the end, that’s God’s fate. Still we ask, will the Americans be able thru their media outlets, their agents, their instruments, soldiers, intelligence services and their might be able to kill what Sheikh Osama lived for and was killed for? How far! How impossible! Sheikh Osama didn’t build an organization that will vanish with his death or fades away with his departure.
In this context, we in al Qaeda Jihad organization promise God Almighty and we ask Him for help, support and steadfastness to continue on the path of jihad that our leaders, led by Sheikh Osama chose, and that we will not be reluctant, and will not deviate from that honorable path until God be the final judge between us and our enemy.
We also stress that the blood of the mujahid sheikh Osama bin Laden, may God have mercy on him is VERY dear to us and more precious to us and to every Muslim from being shed in vain and this blood (OBL’s blood) will be a curse that will chase the Americans and their agents, a curse that will pursue them inside and outside their country, and soon – with God's help – we pray that their happiness turns into sorrow and may their bloods mix with their tears and let Sheikh Osama’s resonate again that “America will neither enjoy nor live in security until our people in Palestine live it and enjoy it. The soldiers of Islam in groups and as individuals will continue to plan and plot without any fatigue, boredom, despair, surrender or indifference until you receive from them a cunning misfortune that will gray the hair of the child even before he gets old.
We call upon our Muslim people in Pakistan where our dear Sheikh Osama was killed on their soil to rise up and revolt so they can cleanse this disgrace that was brought upon them by a handful of traitors and thieves who have sold everything to the enemies of the Muslim nation, and disregarded the feelings of this great Muajhid (Pakistani) people and let them rise up and start a massive public uprising to cleanse their country (Pakistan) from the filth of the Americans who have wreaked havoc in the land”.
Al-Qaeda chimes in to OBL's body controversy and tells its supporters that OBL had one more message for them.
"The sheikh (OBL) didn’t leave this world before taking part in sharing the joy with his Muslim Umma (nation) regarding its revolutions when the nation has risen in the face of injustice and the tyrants and may God have mercy on him, the sheikh recorded an audio message one week before his killing that we will release soon, God willing and his audio message included a congratulation greeting, advices and a guidance. He ended his audio message with the following verses:
Saying the righteousness to the tyrants is the splendor & the gospel.
This is the path leading to the mundane life, this is the path leading to the hereafter.
You can die a slave if you wish or die a free man, this is your choice.
Moreover, we warn the Americans of any injustice to be made to the corpse of Sheikh Osama, God's mercy be upon him or that he will be mistreated in any despicable manner and this warning includes the mistreatment of any member of the sheikh's honorable family whether they are dead or alive and that the bodies must be handed over to the families because any inappropriate treatment will open the doors of double evil and you will only be blaming yourselves for your own deeds. We call upon all Muslims to do their duty in enforcing this right.”
I'm sorry but a picture is no more documented proof than the accounts we're hearing from the govt. Like someone else said in here, it sounds like the only way to prove it under some peoples guideline would be for them to see his dead body yourself and conduct the DNA tests yourself too.
A picture of bin laden solves nothing as far as documented proof.
Due to the political fallout...i.e. No second term, possible resignation, legacy as biggest liar ever, etc., Obama would have to be the dumbest person in the world to lie about bin Laden's death because it would be so easy to disprove. There is no way he is alive.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
Gimme a break. Calling us 'easily led' is childish.
Do you have an answer to how risky it would be for politicians to cover this up?
If he's not dead, what happens to the US govt when bin laden shows up next week?
What about the 20+ people that were in the compound at the time of the assault who are in the hands of the Pakistanis?
Do you realize the scope it would take and risks to cover this kind of thing up?
As far as the Saddam thing.. That was shaky, shitty video. Again, have you seen Wag the Dog? What IS real proof these days? Is is possible that since bin ladens head was nearly blown off, he doest quite even look like bin laden anymore? You're starting to sound like a typical conspiracy theorist.
Do you think bin laden is still alive?[/quote]
did you believe that pat tillman was killed by enemy fire?
how risky was it for the us government to cover up the truth about his death?[/quote]
did the truth about Tillman come to light...? was it the "government" that covered this up or was it the perpetrators of the crime...?[/quote]
A report described in The Washington Post on May 4, 2005, prepared at the request of Tillman's family by Brig. Gen. Gary M. Jones revealed that in the days immediately following Tillman's death, Army investigators were aware that Tillman had been killed by friendly fire, shot three times in the head.[12] Jones reported that senior Army commanders, including Gen. John Abizaid, knew of this fact within days of the shooting but nevertheless approved the awarding of the Silver Star, Purple Heart, and a posthumous promotion.
Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal approved the Silver Star citation on April 28, 2004, which gave a detailed account of Tillman's death including the phrase "in the line of devastating enemy fire," but the next day he sent a P4 confidential memo warning senior government members that Tillman might actually have been killed by friendly fire.[13] Top commanders within the U.S. Central Command, including former Commander of the United States Central Command (CENTCOM) General John Abizaid, should have been notified by the P4 memo,[14] which described Tillman's "highly possible" fratricide, four days before Tillman's nationally televised memorial service during which he was lauded as a war hero for dying while engaging the enemy.[15][16]
Jones reported that members of Tillman's unit burned his body armor and uniform in an apparent attempt to hide the fact that he was killed by friendly fire.[17] His notebook, in which – according to author Jon Krakauer, Tillman had recorded some of his thoughts on Afghanistan – was also burned; “a blatant violation of protocol”.[18] Several soldiers were subsequently punished for their actions by being removed from the United States Army Rangers.[17] Jones believed that Tillman should retain his medals and promotion, since, according to Jones, he intended to engage the enemy and, in Jones's opinion, behaved heroically.[17]
Tillman's family was not informed of the finding that he was killed by friendly fire until weeks after his memorial service, although at least some senior Army officers knew of that fact prior to the service.[17] According to Krakauer in his book Where Men Win Glory, the extensive cover-up that followed his death included the military's order to Tillman's comrades to lie to his family at the funeral.[18] Tillman's parents have sharply criticized the Army's handling of the incident; Tillman's father charges that the Army "purposely interfered in the investigation" because of the effect it could have on their recruiting efforts, while Tillman's mother charges that "this lie was to cover their image."[19]
“ After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this. They purposely interfered with the investigation; they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy.[19] ”
He also blamed high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public.[20]
On March 4, 2006, the U.S. Defense Department Inspector General directed the Army to open a criminal investigation of Tillman's death. The Army's Criminal Investigative Division will determine if Tillman's death was the result of negligent homicide.[21]
On March 26, 2007, the Pentagon released their report on the events surrounding Tillman's death and coverup. The report reads in part:
“ …we emphasize that all investigators established the basic facts of CPL Tillman's death – that it was caused by friendly fire, that the occupants of one vehicle in CPL Tillman's platoon were responsible, and that circumstances on the ground caused those occupants to misidentify friendly forces as hostile. None of the investigations suggested that CPL Tillman's death was anything other than accidental. Our review, as well as the investigation recently completed by Army CID, obtained no evidence contrary to those key findings.[22] ”
On April 24, 2007, Iraq veteran Jessica Lynch, who had been captured by the Iraqis after a fire fight, gave testimony before the United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform that the Pentagon had erroneously portrayed her as a "Rambo from the hills of West Virginia," when in fact, she never fired a shot after her truck was ambushed.[23] Tillman's brother Kevin Tillman testified at the same hearing that: "The deception surrounding this [Tillman] case was an insult to the family: but more importantly, its primary purpose was to deceive a whole nation. We say these things with disappointment and sadness for our country. Once again, we have been used as props in a Pentagon public relations exercise."[24]
After Kevin's testimony Pete Geren, acting secretary of the Army stated to reporters, "We as an Army failed in our duty to the Tillman family, the duty we owe to all the families of our fallen soldiers: Give them the truth, the best we know it, as fast as we can."[24]
Tillman's diary was never returned to his family, and its whereabouts are not publicly known.
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Gimme a break. Calling us 'easily led' is childish.
Do you have an answer to how risky it would be for politicians to cover this up?
If he's not dead, what happens to the US govt when bin laden shows up next week?
What about the 20+ people that were in the compound at the time of the assault who are in the hands of the Pakistanis?
Do you realize the scope it would take and risks to cover this kind of thing up?
As far as the Saddam thing.. That was shaky, shitty video. Again, have you seen Wag the Dog? What IS real proof these days? Is is possible that since bin ladens head was nearly blown off, he doest quite even look like bin laden anymore? You're starting to sound like a typical conspiracy theorist.
Do you think bin laden is still alive?
did you believe that pat tillman was killed by enemy fire?
how risky was it for the us government to cover up the truth about his death?
did the truth about Tillman come to light...? was it the "government" that covered this up or was it the perpetrators of the crime...?
A report described in The Washington Post on May 4, 2005, prepared at the request of Tillman's family by Brig. Gen. Gary M. Jones revealed that in the days immediately following Tillman's death, Army investigators were aware that Tillman had been killed by friendly fire, shot three times in the head.[12] Jones reported that senior Army commanders, including Gen. John Abizaid, knew of this fact within days of the shooting but nevertheless approved the awarding of the Silver Star, Purple Heart, and a posthumous promotion.
Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal approved the Silver Star citation on April 28, 2004, which gave a detailed account of Tillman's death including the phrase "in the line of devastating enemy fire," but the next day he sent a P4 confidential memo warning senior government members that Tillman might actually have been killed by friendly fire.[13] Top commanders within the U.S. Central Command, including former Commander of the United States Central Command (CENTCOM) General John Abizaid, should have been notified by the P4 memo,[14] which described Tillman's "highly possible" fratricide, four days before Tillman's nationally televised memorial service during which he was lauded as a war hero for dying while engaging the enemy.[15][16]
Jones reported that members of Tillman's unit burned his body armor and uniform in an apparent attempt to hide the fact that he was killed by friendly fire.[17] His notebook, in which – according to author Jon Krakauer, Tillman had recorded some of his thoughts on Afghanistan – was also burned; “a blatant violation of protocol”.[18] Several soldiers were subsequently punished for their actions by being removed from the United States Army Rangers.[17] Jones believed that Tillman should retain his medals and promotion, since, according to Jones, he intended to engage the enemy and, in Jones's opinion, behaved heroically.[17]
Tillman's family was not informed of the finding that he was killed by friendly fire until weeks after his memorial service, although at least some senior Army officers knew of that fact prior to the service.[17] According to Krakauer in his book Where Men Win Glory, the extensive cover-up that followed his death included the military's order to Tillman's comrades to lie to his family at the funeral.[18] Tillman's parents have sharply criticized the Army's handling of the incident; Tillman's father charges that the Army "purposely interfered in the investigation" because of the effect it could have on their recruiting efforts, while Tillman's mother charges that "this lie was to cover their image."[19]
“ After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this. They purposely interfered with the investigation; they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy.[19] ”
He also blamed high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public.[20]
On March 4, 2006, the U.S. Defense Department Inspector General directed the Army to open a criminal investigation of Tillman's death. The Army's Criminal Investigative Division will determine if Tillman's death was the result of negligent homicide.[21]
On March 26, 2007, the Pentagon released their report on the events surrounding Tillman's death and coverup. The report reads in part:
“ …we emphasize that all investigators established the basic facts of CPL Tillman's death – that it was caused by friendly fire, that the occupants of one vehicle in CPL Tillman's platoon were responsible, and that circumstances on the ground caused those occupants to misidentify friendly forces as hostile. None of the investigations suggested that CPL Tillman's death was anything other than accidental. Our review, as well as the investigation recently completed by Army CID, obtained no evidence contrary to those key findings.[22] ”
On April 24, 2007, Iraq veteran Jessica Lynch, who had been captured by the Iraqis after a fire fight, gave testimony before the United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform that the Pentagon had erroneously portrayed her as a "Rambo from the hills of West Virginia," when in fact, she never fired a shot after her truck was ambushed.[23] Tillman's brother Kevin Tillman testified at the same hearing that: "The deception surrounding this [Tillman] case was an insult to the family: but more importantly, its primary purpose was to deceive a whole nation. We say these things with disappointment and sadness for our country. Once again, we have been used as props in a Pentagon public relations exercise."[24]
After Kevin's testimony Pete Geren, acting secretary of the Army stated to reporters, "We as an Army failed in our duty to the Tillman family, the duty we owe to all the families of our fallen soldiers: Give them the truth, the best we know it, as fast as we can."[24]
Tillman's diary was never returned to his family, and its whereabouts are not publicly known.
well then...I guess osama is still alive...
perhaps Tillman is too...who knows...as Fox Mulder always says...trust no one...
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Yes, it's reasonable to question authority. All of us here do that. It is reasonable to question whether the circumstanses surrounding his death are 100% accurate. But it is illogical to think that it's not true that he's dead.
They could drag his dead body to the home of every single "deather" ( ) and that would still not be good enough proof. Have y'all seen people who have died due to severe head trauma? They are frequently completely unrecognizable, even to their closest family & friends. And none of us even met the guy, so how on earth could we be reliable sources to identify him anyway? The idea that a picture would provide more difinitive proof than the proof - yes, proof - we arleady have is absurd.
And I think the analogy of Michael Jackson, et al is an excellent one. The point is: How do we REALLY know anyone is dead? There comes a point when you have to trust someone and, if nothing else, you have to trust logic. Regardless of the difference between a pop star and a terrorist, it's still illogical to think we have been lied to about either of them.
Yes, it's reasonable to question authority. All of us here do that. It is reasonable to question whether the circumstanses surrounding his death are 100% accurate. But it is illogical to think that it's not true that he's dead.
They could drag his dead body to the home of every single "deather" ( ) and that would still not be good enough proof. Have y'all seen people who have died due to severe head trauma? They are frequently completely unrecognizable, even to their closest family & friends. And none of us even met the guy, so how on earth could we be reliable sources to identify him anyway? The idea that a picture would provide more difinitive proof than the proof - yes, proof - we arleady have is absurd.
And I think the analogy of Michael Jackson, et al is an excellent one. The point is: How do we REALLY know anyone is dead? There comes a point when you have to trust someone and, if nothing else, you have to trust logic. Regardless of the difference between a pop star and a terrorist, it's still illogical to think we have been lied to about either of them.
to echo the point of someone dying of severe head trauma, many times they need dental or dna proof to determine the identity, because i a lot of cases there is not much else left. especially if a man is shot near the left eye with a large caliber of projectile. i am sure most of you all saw the pics in the AET thread where those faces on those bodies were so dead and bloated and swollen i am sure that only people that knew them closely could identify them. head trauma from a bullet is severely bloody because the brain is so vascular and the skull is broken so there is nothing to contain that bleeding....
and by the way, i saw elvis doing karaoke at a bar in st. charles missouri last weekend... so he is alive...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Yes, it's reasonable to question authority. All of us here do that. It is reasonable to question whether the circumstanses surrounding his death are 100% accurate. But it is illogical to think that it's not true that he's dead.
They could drag his dead body to the home of every single "deather" ( ) and that would still not be good enough proof. Have y'all seen people who have died due to severe head trauma? They are frequently completely unrecognizable, even to their closest family & friends. And none of us even met the guy, so how on earth could we be reliable sources to identify him anyway? The idea that a picture would provide more difinitive proof than the proof - yes, proof - we arleady have is absurd.
And I think the analogy of Michael Jackson, et al is an excellent one. The point is: How do we REALLY know anyone is dead? There comes a point when you have to trust someone and, if nothing else, you have to trust logic. Regardless of the difference between a pop star and a terrorist, it's still illogical to think we have been lied to about either of them.
to echo the point of someone dying of severe head trauma, many times they need dental or dna proof to determine the identity. i am sure most of you all saw the pics in the AET thread where those faces on those bodies were so dead and bloated and swollen i am sure that only people that knew them closely could identify them. head trauma from a bullet is severely bloody because the brain is so vascular.
and by the way, i saw elvis doing karaoke at a bar in st. charles missouri last weekend... so he is alive...
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
Comments
Thank you, ed. Completely where I'm coming from.
did you believe that pat tillman was killed by enemy fire?
how risky was it for the us government to cover up the truth about his death?
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
there is proof...you just don't want to believe it...
I get it, you want a picture...perhaps one signed by Obama...but you're not going to get one...
I guess you'll be on the lookout of OBL forever...if you see him, take a picture with him...
did the truth about Tillman come to light...? was it the "government" that covered this up or was it the perpetrators of the crime...?
There is no documented proof released to the public. Keep talking... :roll:
ok Donald...
I thought for sure OBL was dead years ago then I gather that's why I was quite suprised he was reported to be killed some days ago. I WAS THINKING HE WAS ALREADY DEAD. I can see this discussion of his death will linger for some time to come as long as we still have this air of the unknown mystery centered around his killing and body disposal.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Al Qaeda released a statement on jihadist forums confirming the death of its leader, Osama bin Laden, according to SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors militant messages.
The statement was issued by the al Qaeda organization - General Command on Tuesday May 3, 2011. Read in Arabic here (PDF) or the translation below:
Al-Qaeda statement calls the day " a historic day of the days of the great Islamic umma (nation) and in a noble stand of one of its great men and heroes across its blessed age and on the path taken by the will of all the mighty predecessors and those who will follow them, the Sheikh, the Mujahid & the Commander, the pious migrant fighter, Abu Abdullah Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden, may God have mercy on him was killed in a place where truth shines and where sincerity for good deeds and the call for truthfulness exist. Bin Laden was killed so he can follow the mighty caravan of the umma (the nation) with the great leaders, the loyal soldiers, and the honest knights who refused to abandon their faith for the mundane lives and to hand over the command to those who will be humiliate them and be humiliated and that's why they confronted the weaponry with weaponry, force with force and accepted to challenge the arrogant masses that came out to fight with their killing machines, equipments, aircrafts and forces boastfully so they can be seen as men, and still this didn’t weaken their resolve and didn’t drain their strength, but instead he stood up for them face to face, a mighty mountain, a proud mountain and he was still in the midst of the battle that many got used to and his eyes were used to its sceneries but after that, he was yet to be excused and delivered his message and then he was shot bullets of betrayal and blasphemy delivering his soul to its maker while repeating: 'Who sacrifice the blessed soul for his Lord to fight off the falsehood CANNOT ever be blamed'."
"Congratulations to the Islamic Nation on the martyrdom of their devoted son Osama,
Even when the Americans managed to kill Osama, they managed to do ONLY that by disgrace and betrayal. Men and heroes only should be confronted in the battlefields but at the end, that’s God’s fate. Still we ask, will the Americans be able thru their media outlets, their agents, their instruments, soldiers, intelligence services and their might be able to kill what Sheikh Osama lived for and was killed for? How far! How impossible! Sheikh Osama didn’t build an organization that will vanish with his death or fades away with his departure.
In this context, we in al Qaeda Jihad organization promise God Almighty and we ask Him for help, support and steadfastness to continue on the path of jihad that our leaders, led by Sheikh Osama chose, and that we will not be reluctant, and will not deviate from that honorable path until God be the final judge between us and our enemy.
We also stress that the blood of the mujahid sheikh Osama bin Laden, may God have mercy on him is VERY dear to us and more precious to us and to every Muslim from being shed in vain and this blood (OBL’s blood) will be a curse that will chase the Americans and their agents, a curse that will pursue them inside and outside their country, and soon – with God's help – we pray that their happiness turns into sorrow and may their bloods mix with their tears and let Sheikh Osama’s resonate again that “America will neither enjoy nor live in security until our people in Palestine live it and enjoy it. The soldiers of Islam in groups and as individuals will continue to plan and plot without any fatigue, boredom, despair, surrender or indifference until you receive from them a cunning misfortune that will gray the hair of the child even before he gets old.
We call upon our Muslim people in Pakistan where our dear Sheikh Osama was killed on their soil to rise up and revolt so they can cleanse this disgrace that was brought upon them by a handful of traitors and thieves who have sold everything to the enemies of the Muslim nation, and disregarded the feelings of this great Muajhid (Pakistani) people and let them rise up and start a massive public uprising to cleanse their country (Pakistan) from the filth of the Americans who have wreaked havoc in the land”.
Al-Qaeda chimes in to OBL's body controversy and tells its supporters that OBL had one more message for them.
"The sheikh (OBL) didn’t leave this world before taking part in sharing the joy with his Muslim Umma (nation) regarding its revolutions when the nation has risen in the face of injustice and the tyrants and may God have mercy on him, the sheikh recorded an audio message one week before his killing that we will release soon, God willing and his audio message included a congratulation greeting, advices and a guidance. He ended his audio message with the following verses:
Saying the righteousness to the tyrants is the splendor & the gospel.
This is the path leading to the mundane life, this is the path leading to the hereafter.
You can die a slave if you wish or die a free man, this is your choice.
Moreover, we warn the Americans of any injustice to be made to the corpse of Sheikh Osama, God's mercy be upon him or that he will be mistreated in any despicable manner and this warning includes the mistreatment of any member of the sheikh's honorable family whether they are dead or alive and that the bodies must be handed over to the families because any inappropriate treatment will open the doors of double evil and you will only be blaming yourselves for your own deeds. We call upon all Muslims to do their duty in enforcing this right.”
A picture of bin laden solves nothing as far as documented proof.
Obama says he is dead.....
I guess thats good enough for me...
I really dont need to see a photo....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
"With our thoughts we make the world"
seriously, why would AQ come out and say he is dead if he is not dead?
and what is easier:
1. have obama say he is dead, fly to ground zero and have a big elaborate wreath laying ceremony
or
2. cover up the existance of OBL for potentially years to come and keep up the charade that he is still going to kill all of us?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Godfather.
Do you have an answer to how risky it would be for politicians to cover this up?
If he's not dead, what happens to the US govt when bin laden shows up next week?
What about the 20+ people that were in the compound at the time of the assault who are in the hands of the Pakistanis?
Do you realize the scope it would take and risks to cover this kind of thing up?
As far as the Saddam thing.. That was shaky, shitty video. Again, have you seen Wag the Dog? What IS real proof these days? Is is possible that since bin ladens head was nearly blown off, he doest quite even look like bin laden anymore? You're starting to sound like a typical conspiracy theorist.
Do you think bin laden is still alive?[/quote]
did you believe that pat tillman was killed by enemy fire?
how risky was it for the us government to cover up the truth about his death?[/quote]
did the truth about Tillman come to light...? was it the "government" that covered this up or was it the perpetrators of the crime...?[/quote]
A report described in The Washington Post on May 4, 2005, prepared at the request of Tillman's family by Brig. Gen. Gary M. Jones revealed that in the days immediately following Tillman's death, Army investigators were aware that Tillman had been killed by friendly fire, shot three times in the head.[12] Jones reported that senior Army commanders, including Gen. John Abizaid, knew of this fact within days of the shooting but nevertheless approved the awarding of the Silver Star, Purple Heart, and a posthumous promotion.
Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal approved the Silver Star citation on April 28, 2004, which gave a detailed account of Tillman's death including the phrase "in the line of devastating enemy fire," but the next day he sent a P4 confidential memo warning senior government members that Tillman might actually have been killed by friendly fire.[13] Top commanders within the U.S. Central Command, including former Commander of the United States Central Command (CENTCOM) General John Abizaid, should have been notified by the P4 memo,[14] which described Tillman's "highly possible" fratricide, four days before Tillman's nationally televised memorial service during which he was lauded as a war hero for dying while engaging the enemy.[15][16]
Jones reported that members of Tillman's unit burned his body armor and uniform in an apparent attempt to hide the fact that he was killed by friendly fire.[17] His notebook, in which – according to author Jon Krakauer, Tillman had recorded some of his thoughts on Afghanistan – was also burned; “a blatant violation of protocol”.[18] Several soldiers were subsequently punished for their actions by being removed from the United States Army Rangers.[17] Jones believed that Tillman should retain his medals and promotion, since, according to Jones, he intended to engage the enemy and, in Jones's opinion, behaved heroically.[17]
Tillman's family was not informed of the finding that he was killed by friendly fire until weeks after his memorial service, although at least some senior Army officers knew of that fact prior to the service.[17] According to Krakauer in his book Where Men Win Glory, the extensive cover-up that followed his death included the military's order to Tillman's comrades to lie to his family at the funeral.[18] Tillman's parents have sharply criticized the Army's handling of the incident; Tillman's father charges that the Army "purposely interfered in the investigation" because of the effect it could have on their recruiting efforts, while Tillman's mother charges that "this lie was to cover their image."[19]
“ After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this. They purposely interfered with the investigation; they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy.[19] ”
He also blamed high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public.[20]
On March 4, 2006, the U.S. Defense Department Inspector General directed the Army to open a criminal investigation of Tillman's death. The Army's Criminal Investigative Division will determine if Tillman's death was the result of negligent homicide.[21]
On March 26, 2007, the Pentagon released their report on the events surrounding Tillman's death and coverup. The report reads in part:
“ …we emphasize that all investigators established the basic facts of CPL Tillman's death – that it was caused by friendly fire, that the occupants of one vehicle in CPL Tillman's platoon were responsible, and that circumstances on the ground caused those occupants to misidentify friendly forces as hostile. None of the investigations suggested that CPL Tillman's death was anything other than accidental. Our review, as well as the investigation recently completed by Army CID, obtained no evidence contrary to those key findings.[22] ”
On April 24, 2007, Iraq veteran Jessica Lynch, who had been captured by the Iraqis after a fire fight, gave testimony before the United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform that the Pentagon had erroneously portrayed her as a "Rambo from the hills of West Virginia," when in fact, she never fired a shot after her truck was ambushed.[23] Tillman's brother Kevin Tillman testified at the same hearing that: "The deception surrounding this [Tillman] case was an insult to the family: but more importantly, its primary purpose was to deceive a whole nation. We say these things with disappointment and sadness for our country. Once again, we have been used as props in a Pentagon public relations exercise."[24]
After Kevin's testimony Pete Geren, acting secretary of the Army stated to reporters, "We as an Army failed in our duty to the Tillman family, the duty we owe to all the families of our fallen soldiers: Give them the truth, the best we know it, as fast as we can."[24]
Tillman's diary was never returned to his family, and its whereabouts are not publicly known.
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
well then...I guess osama is still alive...
perhaps Tillman is too...who knows...as Fox Mulder always says...trust no one...
i do think it is natural to question authority
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
They could drag his dead body to the home of every single "deather" (
And I think the analogy of Michael Jackson, et al is an excellent one. The point is: How do we REALLY know anyone is dead? There comes a point when you have to trust someone and, if nothing else, you have to trust logic. Regardless of the difference between a pop star and a terrorist, it's still illogical to think we have been lied to about either of them.
and by the way, i saw elvis doing karaoke at a bar in st. charles missouri last weekend... so he is alive...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
yea him and stevie ray vaughn...I seen em.
Godfather.
aaaahhh eehhemmmmm
excuse me y'all
don't mean to say I told ya so..
but ^^^^^ :roll:
jo
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