Drumming on the Orpheum Theater show...

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  • evenflow82evenflow82 Posts: 3,529
    I love Dave A., am cool with Matt but man, Jack's like stuff with the band is just painful. It's like an old tired man trying to run a sprint; he can't keep up.
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  • jets521jets521 Posts: 743
    evenflow82 wrote:
    I love Dave A., am cool with Matt but man, Jack's like stuff with the band is just painful. It's like an old tired man trying to run a sprint; he can't keep up.

    its different strokes for different folks. I read Uncle Neil Young was blown away by Jack's drumming during the Mirrorball sessions/tour. I personally like Jack alot..but Matt is No. 1 for me.

    its a never ending cycle of debate.
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  • STT757STT757 Posts: 302
    jets521 wrote:
    evenflow82 wrote:
    I love Dave A., am cool with Matt but man, Jack's like stuff with the band is just painful. It's like an old tired man trying to run a sprint; he can't keep up.

    I read Uncle Neil Young was blown away by Jack's drumming during the Mirrorball sessions/tour.

    its a never ending cycle of debate.

    I think Uncle Neil was trying to be supportive to Pearl Jam, remember Jack Irons was booed when introduced at some of the '95 shows including Voters for Choice in Washington DC. I have that bootleg, Jack was not welcomed with open arms by the fans.

    I've seen Jack live with Pearl Jam twice, and I've probably listened to every show he played with them on a bootleg or through Pearl Jam radio. He was cool for the No Code songs, but he never got any of the Ten, Vs. and Vitalogy songs down. Dave took the Ten songs and made them his own, Matt came aboard in 1998 and immediately mastered the catalog. Just go and listen to Matt on "Live on Two Legs", he never sounded better than that first tour.

    Jack made it ok for Pearl Jam to become sloppy, some real sloppy shows with Jack.
    Randalls Island New York 9/29/96 - Oakland Coliseum Oakland California 11/15/97 - MSG New York New York 09/10/98 - Key Arena Seattle Washington 11/05/00, 11/06/00 - PNC Bank Arts Center Holmdel New Jersey 7/14/03 - Tweeter Center Camden New Jersey 5/28/06, MSG New York New York 06/25/08, Spectrum Arena Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 10/27/09
  • SpokenSpoken Posts: 1,388
    This show is incredible!
  • CJMST3KCJMST3K Posts: 9,721
    STT757 wrote:
    I've seen Jack live with Pearl Jam twice, and I've probably listened to every show he played with them on a bootleg or through Pearl Jam radio. He was cool for the No Code songs, but he never got any of the Ten, Vs. and Vitalogy songs down. Dave took the Ten songs and made them his own, Matt came aboard in 1998 and immediately mastered the catalog. Just go and listen to Matt on "Live on Two Legs", he never sounded better than that first tour.

    Jack made it ok for Pearl Jam to become sloppy, some real sloppy shows with Jack.


    I'd disagree with MC "mastering" the catalog. But he did sound best in 1998. But his playing of the pre-jack material never was as good as Dave's. He has a lot of energy, but not a lot of style on the songs. A lack of contrast, and often just playing a generic beat that could be interchanged with other songs. I'd even say that Jack was more in-line with Dave on a lot more of the groove than Matt.

    Here's a comparison I made on this topic in another thread:



    Comparison of Dave, Jack and Matt on "Blood"


    Dave:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoclgBmo ... annel_page

    Dave's timing was great. It lined up with the guitar changes. The right hand is playing the china and/or crashes with the guitar changes, and his left hand is keeping a straight snare beat. The snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure as the count restarts each go-around. It has a great musicality to it. Dave also did great, tight rudiments on a tight hihat during this song.



    Here's Jack playing Blood:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsP0TQvKniQ

    Jack's timing was pretty much identical with Dave's. Jack's right hand was striking the cymbals and his left was keeping a straight snare beat, once again the snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure. He used different cymbals (a ride many times), but Jack "got it" as far as how the cymbals interlocked with the guitar changes, while keeping a steady on the snare. Jack couldn't do the rudiments (imho as a drummer), so he just did a simple beat on the hihat, and his fills were a bit loose. Seeing as how he got the rest of the song right, I won't begrudge him this difference. Dave's "thing" was rudiments, so it's hard for most drummers to compare on that part.



    Here's Matt playing Blood:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO_B2pMTCEw

    I chose this audience video because it sounded a little less muddy than the pro-shot stuff, and on the latter-half of the video you can see Matt playing more at the 2:00 mark, than the pro-shot stuff. Matt's timing on cymbals is a basic beat - he's not hitting the crashes in timing with the music. Matt's just kinda playing a generic beat and slamming the crashes in time with himself, regardless of how the rest of the song goes. His cymbal hits and snare hits line up twice per measure.


    Now I know my description may be lost on some... if you can't hear the difference, I truly envy you. This song used to be a favorite because of how intertwined the cymbal hits and guitar intertwined, plus the rudiments, and now with all the changes, it is no longer.

    For those who complain that "Dave played cymbals too much", then where are you now on this? If you count, every measure, Matt is hitting the cymbals 6 times. Dave is only hitting them 4 times. This makes it muddy sounding when Matt is playing (plus not in time with the guitar changes), whereas Dave's cymbal hits were spaced out, so you could hear each one.

    In order of my preference on Blood: Dave, Jack, Matt
    ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you. :)
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  • HailHailOZHailHailOZ Posts: 350
    jets521 wrote:
    its different strokes for different folks. its a never ending cycle of debate.

    It has to be agreed that each drummer was/played perfectly for his time with the band and we can only assume what each album would have been like with a different man behind the kit. Live is sort of the same beast. For me they all overlap in some way... Krusen and Abbruzzese are both clean hard hitters but Dave A has a certain groove that Jack has. Matt has feel and certain aspects of his playing are drumming perfection but he's also very often loose like Jack.

    The drummer of Pearl Jam currently is the guy that fits drumming wise and personality wise. If Jack didn't leave he'd still be there IMO.

    This whole thread is a reason we need to see the PJ drummer trade-off finale to PJ20 :lol:
  • SpokenSpoken Posts: 1,388
    Listen to "Porch" on this show...
    It's sick.
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,205
    BB29347 wrote:
    Depends on the song IMO, EG I much prefer RVM with Matt. Listen to the breakdown in RVM on the Orpheum show with Dave - he just kind of plays along repeating the same little pattern over and over.

    It's also a matter of taste. To me Dave's cymbal use gets a bit tiresome in a live show.

    I'm with you here. It really depends on the song. And sometimes it breaks down even more than that and it's I like what Dave is doing here than what Matt does, but on this other part of the song, what Matt does is better.

    They're both excellent technical drummers with incredibly different style.

    With that said, I think that Matt is more well rounded than Dave. Sure while there are some songs that Dave plays that I prefer, I just don't think his style would have fit as well with where PJ have gone post Vitalogy, and even on how they play some of those songs now.
    Add about 8,000 posts to my post number.


    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.

  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,205
    CJMST3K wrote:
    STT757 wrote:
    I've seen Jack live with Pearl Jam twice, and I've probably listened to every show he played with them on a bootleg or through Pearl Jam radio. He was cool for the No Code songs, but he never got any of the Ten, Vs. and Vitalogy songs down. Dave took the Ten songs and made them his own, Matt came aboard in 1998 and immediately mastered the catalog. Just go and listen to Matt on "Live on Two Legs", he never sounded better than that first tour.

    Jack made it ok for Pearl Jam to become sloppy, some real sloppy shows with Jack.


    I'd disagree with MC "mastering" the catalog. But he did sound best in 1998. But his playing of the pre-jack material never was as good as Dave's. He has a lot of energy, but not a lot of style on the songs. A lack of contrast, and often just playing a generic beat that could be interchanged with other songs. I'd even say that Jack was more in-line with Dave on a lot more of the groove than Matt.

    Here's a comparison I made on this topic in another thread:



    Comparison of Dave, Jack and Matt on "Blood"


    Dave:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoclgBmo ... annel_page

    Dave's timing was great. It lined up with the guitar changes. The right hand is playing the china and/or crashes with the guitar changes, and his left hand is keeping a straight snare beat. The snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure as the count restarts each go-around. It has a great musicality to it. Dave also did great, tight rudiments on a tight hihat during this song.



    Here's Jack playing Blood:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsP0TQvKniQ

    Jack's timing was pretty much identical with Dave's. Jack's right hand was striking the cymbals and his left was keeping a straight snare beat, once again the snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure. He used different cymbals (a ride many times), but Jack "got it" as far as how the cymbals interlocked with the guitar changes, while keeping a steady on the snare. Jack couldn't do the rudiments (imho as a drummer), so he just did a simple beat on the hihat, and his fills were a bit loose. Seeing as how he got the rest of the song right, I won't begrudge him this difference. Dave's "thing" was rudiments, so it's hard for most drummers to compare on that part.



    Here's Matt playing Blood:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO_B2pMTCEw

    I chose this audience video because it sounded a little less muddy than the pro-shot stuff, and on the latter-half of the video you can see Matt playing more at the 2:00 mark, than the pro-shot stuff. Matt's timing on cymbals is a basic beat - he's not hitting the crashes in timing with the music. Matt's just kinda playing a generic beat and slamming the crashes in time with himself, regardless of how the rest of the song goes. His cymbal hits and snare hits line up twice per measure.


    Now I know my description may be lost on some... if you can't hear the difference, I truly envy you. This song used to be a favorite because of how intertwined the cymbal hits and guitar intertwined, plus the rudiments, and now with all the changes, it is no longer.

    For those who complain that "Dave played cymbals too much", then where are you now on this? If you count, every measure, Matt is hitting the cymbals 6 times. Dave is only hitting them 4 times. This makes it muddy sounding when Matt is playing (plus not in time with the guitar changes), whereas Dave's cymbal hits were spaced out, so you could hear each one.

    In order of my preference on Blood: Dave, Jack, Matt

    Great breakdown. To be honest, while I do like what Dave and Jack are doing as opposed to what Matt is doing during the chorus, Jack's playing during the rest of the song just isn't as good as what Matt is doing. At least Matt is doing some good rudiments, but Jack just didn't have the chops Matt has. Maybe more style, but I think some of it is still lost.

    So I'll agree with with liking Dave most on Blood, but then Matt then Jack.

    But also, if you take a song like Corduroy for instance, which was originally a Dave song, I much prefer how Matt plays it.

    Matt -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq_ejd7FVnM

    Great fills, great cymbals and changes up the beat between sections. Also he's just very tight. I especially like how Matt plays the bridge before the guitar solo starting around 2:55. His fills and cymbal work here take the song to another level.

    Here's Jack -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E1t06Ee47k

    In my opinion, just pretty boring in general. Nothing special with the fills, and he plays essentially the same beat throughout. I think also the song sounds a little loose this way. I love how much tighter the song is with Matt.

    Unfortunately I couldn't find video of Dave A. playing this, but if you listen to the album version its not nearly as good as what Matt is doing. Just pretty boring I find.
    Add about 8,000 posts to my post number.


    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.

  • CJMST3KCJMST3K Posts: 9,721
    yosi wrote:
    CJMST3K wrote:
    STT757 wrote:
    I've seen Jack live with Pearl Jam twice, and I've probably listened to every show he played with them on a bootleg or through Pearl Jam radio. He was cool for the No Code songs, but he never got any of the Ten, Vs. and Vitalogy songs down. Dave took the Ten songs and made them his own, Matt came aboard in 1998 and immediately mastered the catalog. Just go and listen to Matt on "Live on Two Legs", he never sounded better than that first tour.

    Jack made it ok for Pearl Jam to become sloppy, some real sloppy shows with Jack.


    I'd disagree with MC "mastering" the catalog. But he did sound best in 1998. But his playing of the pre-jack material never was as good as Dave's. He has a lot of energy, but not a lot of style on the songs. A lack of contrast, and often just playing a generic beat that could be interchanged with other songs. I'd even say that Jack was more in-line with Dave on a lot more of the groove than Matt.

    Here's a comparison I made on this topic in another thread:



    Comparison of Dave, Jack and Matt on "Blood"


    Dave:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoclgBmo ... annel_page

    Dave's timing was great. It lined up with the guitar changes. The right hand is playing the china and/or crashes with the guitar changes, and his left hand is keeping a straight snare beat. The snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure as the count restarts each go-around. It has a great musicality to it. Dave also did great, tight rudiments on a tight hihat during this song.



    Here's Jack playing Blood:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsP0TQvKniQ

    Jack's timing was pretty much identical with Dave's. Jack's right hand was striking the cymbals and his left was keeping a straight snare beat, once again the snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure. He used different cymbals (a ride many times), but Jack "got it" as far as how the cymbals interlocked with the guitar changes, while keeping a steady on the snare. Jack couldn't do the rudiments (imho as a drummer), so he just did a simple beat on the hihat, and his fills were a bit loose. Seeing as how he got the rest of the song right, I won't begrudge him this difference. Dave's "thing" was rudiments, so it's hard for most drummers to compare on that part.



    Here's Matt playing Blood:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO_B2pMTCEw

    I chose this audience video because it sounded a little less muddy than the pro-shot stuff, and on the latter-half of the video you can see Matt playing more at the 2:00 mark, than the pro-shot stuff. Matt's timing on cymbals is a basic beat - he's not hitting the crashes in timing with the music. Matt's just kinda playing a generic beat and slamming the crashes in time with himself, regardless of how the rest of the song goes. His cymbal hits and snare hits line up twice per measure.


    Now I know my description may be lost on some... if you can't hear the difference, I truly envy you. This song used to be a favorite because of how intertwined the cymbal hits and guitar intertwined, plus the rudiments, and now with all the changes, it is no longer.

    For those who complain that "Dave played cymbals too much", then where are you now on this? If you count, every measure, Matt is hitting the cymbals 6 times. Dave is only hitting them 4 times. This makes it muddy sounding when Matt is playing (plus not in time with the guitar changes), whereas Dave's cymbal hits were spaced out, so you could hear each one.

    In order of my preference on Blood: Dave, Jack, Matt

    Great breakdown. To be honest, while I do like what Dave and Jack are doing as opposed to what Matt is doing during the chorus, Jack's playing during the rest of the song just isn't as good as what Matt is doing. At least Matt is doing some good rudiments, but Jack just didn't have the chops Matt has. Maybe more style, but I think some of it is still lost.

    So I'll agree with with liking Dave most on Blood, but then Matt then Jack.

    But also, if you take a song like Corduroy for instance, which was originally a Dave song, I much prefer how Matt plays it.

    Matt -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq_ejd7FVnM

    Great fills, great cymbals and changes up the beat between sections. Also he's just very tight. I especially like how Matt plays the bridge before the guitar solo starting around 2:55. His fills and cymbal work here take the song to another level.

    Here's Jack -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E1t06Ee47k

    In my opinion, just pretty boring in general. Nothing special with the fills, and he plays essentially the same beat throughout. I think also the song sounds a little loose this way. I love how much tighter the song is with Matt.

    Unfortunately I couldn't find video of Dave A. playing this, but if you listen to the album version its not nearly as good as what Matt is doing. Just pretty boring I find.

    Well, given that the song wasn't out for too long before Dave A was let go, I wouldn't begrudge him that the band wasn't jamming too long on a lot of the songs. After they toured extensively with Sonic Youth, that's when PJ really developed a long-jam approach, but this was post-Dave. He didn't crowd songs like Evenflow with unnecessary drum solos... though I actually would have loved to have seen Dave play a drum solo. But it's kinda a grandiose thing, and isn't needed to have great drumming apparent.

    I like how Dave does not crowd the songs. Matt definitely shines for moments here and there but is fairly flat for the majority of the early songs. A groove that is good but not great; a one-size-fits-all approach to the hi-hat. I'd rather enjoy the songs to their fullest for 95% and not have those fleeting short moments, rather than hear flat drums with moments of inspirational improvisation.

    It's all about the groove. Dave had tremendous tight groove on the first three albums. Jack had a loose groove on the fourth and fifth albums. And Matt is very creative on his own PJ material, and actually really cool to drum to his stuff that HE wrote, but he doesn't have Dave's tight and funk oriented groove, nor Jack's delicate loose groove for the first five albums. I'd wish the band would bury the first five albums, and only play Matt material. It just suits Matt's playing best to just play his material.
    ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you. :)
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  • BB29347BB29347 Posts: 26
    [quote="CJMST3KI like how Dave does not crowd the songs.[/quote]

    I feel the exact opposite. In a live setting, on certain songs, I felt like Dave is doing way too much and it makes the impact of the drums less effective.

    This topic really could be debated forever.
  • CJMST3KCJMST3K Posts: 9,721
    BB29347 wrote:
    CJMST3K wrote:
    like how Dave does not crowd the songs.

    I feel the exact opposite. In a live setting, on certain songs, I felt like Dave is doing way too much and it makes the impact of the drums less effective.

    This topic really could be debated forever.



    Dave on NFY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z7eZGRlKd0

    It's simple, tight and uncrowded. Very tight hi hat to keep it dry, then it explodes, then back to tight.



    Matt on NFY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNTMPJNeup4

    It's loser in beat with many more drum hits going on, and loose on hi hat. The drums are played more generically. It's no longer simple and dry, but warm.



    To illustrate the crowding, just look at the space below that the drum hits take for the same song by the two drummers:

    Dave's playing in first 8 measures:
    Kick, Snare, Kick, Snare, Kick, Snare, Kick, Snare, Kick, Snare, Kick, Snare, Kick, Snare, Kick, Snare.

    Matt's playing in first 8 measures:
    Kick, Snare, Kick, Kick, Snare, Kick, Kick, Snare, Kick, Kick, Snare, Kick, Snare, Kick, Kick, Snare, Kick, Kick, Snare, Kick, Snare, Kick.

    Dave is playing 16 drum strikes in the 8 measures.
    Matt is playing 22 drum strikes in the 8 measures.

    So Matt is crowding the songs with lots more drum strikes, on what used to be a very simple, straight forward, angry song. And not in a way that contributes to the song. It dilutes the impact, as Matt's drumming is very generic on it. Now it's halfway to a ballad like Light Years.

    Listen to Light Years drumming at the beginning.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-AwjBxZeD4

    It's practically the same way that he plays NFY.

    IMO, it dilutes what was once a very intense, simple song with crowding and generic playing.
    ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you. :)
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  • fox_mulderXfox_mulderX Posts: 1,134
    STT757 wrote:
    jets521 wrote:
    evenflow82 wrote:
    I love Dave A., am cool with Matt but man, Jack's like stuff with the band is just painful. It's like an old tired man trying to run a sprint; he can't keep up.

    I read Uncle Neil Young was blown away by Jack's drumming during the Mirrorball sessions/tour.

    its a never ending cycle of debate.

    I think Uncle Neil was trying to be supportive to Pearl Jam, remember Jack Irons was booed when introduced at some of the '95 shows including Voters for Choice in Washington DC. I have that bootleg, Jack was not welcomed with open arms by the fans.

    I've seen Jack live with Pearl Jam twice, and I've probably listened to every show he played with them on a bootleg or through Pearl Jam radio. He was cool for the No Code songs, but he never got any of the Ten, Vs. and Vitalogy songs down. Dave took the Ten songs and made them his own, Matt came aboard in 1998 and immediately mastered the catalog. Just go and listen to Matt on "Live on Two Legs", he never sounded better than that first tour.

    Jack made it ok for Pearl Jam to become sloppy, some real sloppy shows with Jack.

    jack irons was booed from the bitter fans who wanted dave a back. i'm not sure if that's what you were trying to get across, but i thought i'd throw that in there just in case people thought he was booed for other reasons.

    in my opinion, jack irons was their best drummer. he did more with less. his kit was 1/3 of dave a's and yet the sound he created was much fuller. i love dave's work, but i like jack's sound so much more. very john bonham-ish.
    i respect matt cameron. he's a great drummer and the band is really tight when playing with him.... but he's boring.
  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,205
    CJMST3K wrote:

    Well, given that the song wasn't out for too long before Dave A was let go, I wouldn't begrudge him that the band wasn't jamming too long on a lot of the songs. After they toured extensively with Sonic Youth, that's when PJ really developed a long-jam approach, but this was post-Dave. He didn't crowd songs like Evenflow with unnecessary drum solos... though I actually would have loved to have seen Dave play a drum solo. But it's kinda a grandiose thing, and isn't needed to have great drumming apparent.

    I like how Dave does not crowd the songs. Matt definitely shines for moments here and there but is fairly flat for the majority of the early songs. A groove that is good but not great; a one-size-fits-all approach to the hi-hat. I'd rather enjoy the songs to their fullest for 95% and not have those fleeting short moments, rather than hear flat drums with moments of inspirational improvisation.

    It's all about the groove. Dave had tremendous tight groove on the first three albums. Jack had a loose groove on the fourth and fifth albums. And Matt is very creative on his own PJ material, and actually really cool to drum to his stuff that HE wrote, but he doesn't have Dave's tight and funk oriented groove, nor Jack's delicate loose groove for the first five albums. I'd wish the band would bury the first five albums, and only play Matt material. It just suits Matt's playing best to just play his material.

    No disagreement on the funk oriented groove that Dave brought, I love it. It's especially clear on songs like Even Flow, which I love how Dave played. And you're right, sometimes Matt's playing is a little too similar on lots of songs, at least for the main beat. It's something I've noticed a lot. The basic beat on Even Flow is basically transposed on a lot of other (generally older) songs.

    In terms of groove (or lack there of) I often think of Matt as much more similar to prog-rock drummers. Super technically proficient, but hammering out the grooviness and moving towards more "flat" drumming.

    For me I think it works on a lot of the songs. Like I said before Corduroy, and many of the other songs on Vitalogy. I just find a lot of the album work to be bland. And perhaps you're right, maybe Dave just didn't get enough of an opportunity to expand and improvise on those songs, but I think a lot of them have a better sound with Matt. I actually prefer his drumming on NFY to Dave's.

    But whatever, to each his/her own.

    And I definitely agree with you that Matt shines the most on the material he wrote. I think his playing on everything beginning with Binaural is much more inspired and interesting than what he does on most of the the music before.

    Just to play the other side of the debate, one song I think Matt's drumming totally ruins is Dissident. He totally hammers out the groove into a totally "flat" beat.
    Add about 8,000 posts to my post number.


    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.

  • CJMST3KCJMST3K Posts: 9,721
    jack irons was booed from the bitter fans who wanted dave a back. i'm not sure if that's what you were trying to get across, but i thought i'd throw that in there just in case people thought he was booed for other reasons.


    I don't think boo-ing would have been from people wanting Dave A back. I think it was from Jack's performance. Ultimately, if things sounded how the fans wanted them to sound, there would be no reason to boo.

    In all fairness, Jack didn't really know the songs well. Here's SOLAT
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e2QOxa3wbo

    One comment from this video is "It sounds like Jack is playing 'Last Exit' and the rest of the band is playing 'SOLAT'", and I can't disagree.

    Act Of Love and "jack songs" sound great, but the pre-Jack songs sound quite sloppy.
    ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you. :)
    *NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
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    *Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
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  • yosiyosi Posts: 2,205
    CJMST3K wrote:
    jack irons was booed from the bitter fans who wanted dave a back. i'm not sure if that's what you were trying to get across, but i thought i'd throw that in there just in case people thought he was booed for other reasons.


    I don't think boo-ing would have been from people wanting Dave A back. I think it was from Jack's performance. Ultimately, if things sounded how the fans wanted them to sound, there would be no reason to boo.

    In all fairness, Jack didn't really know the songs well. Here's SOLAT
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e2QOxa3wbo

    One comment from this video is "It sounds like Jack is playing 'Last Exit' and the rest of the band is playing 'SOLAT'", and I can't disagree.

    Act Of Love and "jack songs" sound great, but the pre-Jack songs sound quite sloppy.

    Wow, sounds like he never played that song before. Especially the part right before the guitar at the "hey nananana".

    That comment is pretty spot on.
    Add about 8,000 posts to my post number.


    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.

  • CJMST3KCJMST3K Posts: 9,721
    yosi wrote:
    CJMST3K wrote:
    jack irons was booed from the bitter fans who wanted dave a back. i'm not sure if that's what you were trying to get across, but i thought i'd throw that in there just in case people thought he was booed for other reasons.


    I don't think boo-ing would have been from people wanting Dave A back. I think it was from Jack's performance. Ultimately, if things sounded how the fans wanted them to sound, there would be no reason to boo.

    In all fairness, Jack didn't really know the songs well. Here's SOLAT
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e2QOxa3wbo

    One comment from this video is "It sounds like Jack is playing 'Last Exit' and the rest of the band is playing 'SOLAT'", and I can't disagree.

    Act Of Love and "jack songs" sound great, but the pre-Jack songs sound quite sloppy.

    Wow, sounds like he never played that song before. Especially the part right before the guitar at the "hey nananana".

    That comment is pretty spot on.


    Back in '95 when I heard the DC bootleg, my heart really sank. I really loved the energy that Dave's playing had, and I totally missed that. He really sounded like he didn't know the songs very well, and he is kinda limited on what he does know how to play. It was about the sonics, not the person sitting in the chair.

    Here's a video of Ed talking with Jack about how he wants him to play drums:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVR2NvOntG4
    ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you. :)
    *NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
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    *Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
    *Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
    *Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
    *VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
    *EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
    *Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
  • UmbertotambaUmbertotamba Posts: 1,335
    CJMST3K wrote:
    jack irons was booed from the bitter fans who wanted dave a back. i'm not sure if that's what you were trying to get across, but i thought i'd throw that in there just in case people thought he was booed for other reasons.


    I don't think boo-ing would have been from people wanting Dave A back. I think it was from Jack's performance. Ultimately, if things sounded how the fans wanted them to sound, there would be no reason to boo.

    In all fairness, Jack didn't really know the songs well. Here's SOLAT
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e2QOxa3wbo

    One comment from this video is "It sounds like Jack is playing 'Last Exit' and the rest of the band is playing 'SOLAT'", and I can't disagree.

    Act Of Love and "jack songs" sound great, but the pre-Jack songs sound quite sloppy.

    I think you nailed that.

    Also I think each of the Pearl Jam Drummers are like your children. You can't love 1 more than the other and they each made Pearl Jams sound what it was at the time. I would however gave Dave A one or 2 presents more than the others on his Birthday!!
    Springfield MA 94, Hartford CT 96
  • CJMST3KCJMST3K Posts: 9,721
    CJMST3K wrote:
    jack irons was booed from the bitter fans who wanted dave a back. i'm not sure if that's what you were trying to get across, but i thought i'd throw that in there just in case people thought he was booed for other reasons.


    I don't think boo-ing would have been from people wanting Dave A back. I think it was from Jack's performance. Ultimately, if things sounded how the fans wanted them to sound, there would be no reason to boo.

    In all fairness, Jack didn't really know the songs well. Here's SOLAT
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e2QOxa3wbo

    One comment from this video is "It sounds like Jack is playing 'Last Exit' and the rest of the band is playing 'SOLAT'", and I can't disagree.

    Act Of Love and "jack songs" sound great, but the pre-Jack songs sound quite sloppy.

    I think you nailed that.

    Also I think each of the Pearl Jam Drummers are like your children. You can't love 1 more than the other and they each made Pearl Jams sound what it was at the time. I would however gave Dave A one or 2 presents more than the others on his Birthday!!

    :lol: :lol: :lol:
    ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you. :)
    *NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
    *MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
    *Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
    *Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
    *Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
    *VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
    *EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
    *Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
  • STT757STT757 Posts: 302
    There are a few more examples from the '95 tour where Jack is really lost, Salt Lake City and the Fan Club show prior to the Asia tour. Even the legendary Soldier field show is not very tight. Not to say there were not good shows with Jack, I saw them on Randall's Island night two which was epic although "Rats" was a mess. Also from '96 the Check Point Charlie Berlin show is fantastic.
    Randalls Island New York 9/29/96 - Oakland Coliseum Oakland California 11/15/97 - MSG New York New York 09/10/98 - Key Arena Seattle Washington 11/05/00, 11/06/00 - PNC Bank Arts Center Holmdel New Jersey 7/14/03 - Tweeter Center Camden New Jersey 5/28/06, MSG New York New York 06/25/08, Spectrum Arena Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 10/27/09
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