MANNY RAMIREZ...THE ULTIMATE FRAUD.

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  • KravenKraven Posts: 829
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    He was the biggest name to ever get caught in the act of taking steroids.


    What? Alex Rodriguez and Barry Bonds have both been outed as steroids user, they are both bigger than Manny.
    32 shows and counting...
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,731
    I'm talking testing positive under MLB rules an being suspended. I hate to say "everyones doing it" but I certainly think getting caught and suspended for it is worse than being caught after the fact and in a time frame when everyone seemed to be taking steroids.
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,216
    ed243421 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    ed243421 wrote:
    greatest right-handed hitter ever
    made a few mistakes

    willie mays and frank robinson disagree

    Who knows how many times he got busted for juice. I still think george mitchell covered up red sox related shit since he was working for the team at the time he was conducting his investigation. MLB really fucked that up.


    they didnt face the pitching he did

    Huh? Sure they did. They both (obviously) played their entire careers post-integration. Their advantage was being around before the Latin American influx, Manny's was playing post-expansion. Pretty much a wash.

    This failed test technically makes Manny the first two-time flunker, right? It's such a bizarre way for a guy of that caliber to go out, but sorta makes sense when you consider his entire career. Hard to imagine Manny having a farewell tour season with a bunch of celebration and hullabaloo. So when do you think we hear from him again? 10 years from now?
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Posts: 16,987
    ed243421 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    ed243421 wrote:
    greatest right-handed hitter ever
    made a few mistakes

    willie mays and frank robinson disagree

    Who knows how many times he got busted for juice. I still think george mitchell covered up red sox related shit since he was working for the team at the time he was conducting his investigation. MLB really fucked that up.


    they didnt face the pitching he did

    What an incredibly inaccurate statement.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,853
    Barry Bonds
    Sammy Sosa
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Roger Clemons
    Mark McGuire
    Alex Rodriguez

    You know why I hate these guys more than say Jose Canseco or other steroid-using losers? All six of these guys would have been first-ballot hall-of-famers even if they never touched steroids and that's very annoying. They're like crooked billionaires who despite having all the money in the world, still use crooked means to gain more.

    I've always been most disappointed with A-Rod. I remember when Bonds and all these other losers were getting caught, I said "Well...at least A-Rod is clean. A-Rod's a natural." Lame. All I know is that if it's ever discovered that Albert Pujols used steroids at any time during his career for any reason, I'll never watch Baseball again and will go on a lifetime crusade against the sport. You'll see me outside of Citizens Bank Park holding a sign that says "How can you people support this crap?"
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  • ed243421 wrote:
    greatest right-handed hitter ever
    made a few mistakes

    Hank Aaron laughs at you
  • ed243421ed243421 Posts: 7,659
    ed243421 wrote:
    greatest right-handed hitter ever
    made a few mistakes

    Hank Aaron laughs at you

    it's just my opinion
    i feel 75% of the pitchers that aaron, mays, and robinson faced could not make farm ball in manny's era
    and they did not face the relief pitching like manny did
    people just love to hate manny
    that's cool
    i don't
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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Posts: 16,987
    I don't hate Manny, I just think you made an incredibly inaccurate statement. There were and is currently only three feared pitchers that pitched in the 90's and 00's - being Clemens, Johnson, and Martinez. The only thing even close to a feared pitcher nowadays is Halladay, and that's only because batters feel defeated before they get to the plate, so that's more a matter of being fooled then thinking the high ball at your head is going to curve or be 100 mph coming at your face. I can count on both hands how many more there used to be. Pitching didn't do anything but become more watered down and below average as more teams were brought into the league, especially during Manny's era. I'm not talking about opinions here, I'm talking facts.
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Barry Bonds
    Sammy Sosa
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Roger Clemons
    Mark McGuire
    Alex Rodriguez

    You know why I hate these guys more than say Jose Canseco or other steroid-using losers? All six of these guys would have been first-ballot hall-of-famers even if they never touched steroids and that's very annoying. They're like crooked billionaires who despite having all the money in the world, still use crooked means to gain more.

    I've always been most disappointed with A-Rod. I remember when Bonds and all these other losers were getting caught, I said "Well...at least A-Rod is clean. A-Rod's a natural." Lame. All I know is that if it's ever discovered that Albert Pujols used steroids at any time during his career for any reason, I'll never watch Baseball again and will go on a lifetime crusade against the sport. You'll see me outside of Citizens Bank Park holding a sign that says "How can you people support this crap?"

    sosa got caught with a corked bat too. so he cheated in multiple ways. I don't think he was a shoe in for the HOF.

    and palmeiro was one of the most overrated players of all time

    bonds, clemens, Arod were all HOFers without the juice. mcgwire may have been too
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    manny is a loser. olney summed things up well in his blog today

    BOSTON -- Manny Ramirez looks like a different guy this spring, we heard over and over. Wow, his bat speed looks so much better, scouts raved. The guy is in phenomenal condition, they said. He looks a lot stronger, they said.

    The Red Sox players saw the same thing. After word broke Friday that Ramirez had retired instead of facing suspension, David Ortiz said that the Boston players talked in their dugout this spring about how good Manny looked, how quick his bat was. This was especially striking, because late last season, in his brief time with the White Sox, Ramirez's bat speed had all but disappeared, and evaluators from some teams were convinced he was finished.

    But now he's gone, retiring abruptly after he was informed that he had tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and faced a possible 100-game suspension.

    Former teammates like Jonathan Papelbon and Ortiz and B.J. Upton and Andre Ethier spoke respectfully about what a good teammate he was, what an incredible talent he was. And Hall of Fame voters, like colleague Jayson Stark and I, will mention, fairly, the incredible numbers Ramirez compiled, the 555 home runs and the .312 career average, and we will weigh how the circumstances of his retirement will weigh in the rendering of his legacy.

    And where is Manny in all of this? Well, he's probably laughing at everybody.

    Legacy? Hall of Fame? Teammates? Does anyone really think, after all we've seen in the past decade, that Ramirez cares about any of that?

    He won. He's like the guy who robbed a bank of millions and was sentenced to 10 hours of community service.

    According to his page on Baseballreference.com, Manny Ramirez made over $200 million for his career. How many of those dollars, those 555 home runs, were hit with the help of performance-enhancing drugs? Who knows? You could say a handful or you could say all of them and this would be fair speculation, given the evidence of his stunningly shameless use of performance-enhancing drugs in recent years.

    For the first half of Ramirez's career, Major League Baseball was a wild, wild West of steroid use, with widespread use and virtually no oversight. Oh, sure, there was a loose structure in place whereby a crackdown was possible, but no one ever really did anything.

    But in 2002, the players' union that Ramirez is a part of took its first steps toward drug testing, largely because a number of players within it lobbied quietly for change. Veterans like Todd Zeile had come to understand that the increase in drug use had forced many players to make a very difficult decision: Either stay clean, without benefit of performance-enhancing drugs, and risk being surpassed professionally by players who were juicing; or join the crowd and take the drugs too.

    The union agreed to survey testing, in an effort to keep all of the union brethren on a level playing field. And despite the fact that everybody knew when the tests were being administered, and despite all that was at stake for the reputation of the union, Ramirez reportedly tested positive in 2003. He apparently didn't care about the whole level playing-field thing, or the fact that a positive test might lead to more testing for others; he used anyway. He was perfectly willing to cheat teammates, cheat other players.



    Manny Ramirez Since Suspension
    Games 172
    BA .277
    HR 22<<
    RBI 86
    K 129
    << only 1 HR in last 45 games
    * played for 3 teams (LAD, CHW, TB)


    In the summer of 2008, as his contract with the Red Sox was set to expire, he forced his way out of Boston -- convincing club executives that he was intent on sabotaging the team -- and in two months with the Dodgers, he put on a stunning display of production, hitting about .400. He looked liked a different guy with the Dodgers. His bat speed looks so much better, scouts raved. The guy is in phenomenal condition, they said. He looks a lot stronger, they said.



    And after getting an extension of two years and $45 million, he was suspended under the terms of baseball's drug policy. In other words, knowing all the risks -- to his own legacy, his Hall of Fame chances, his reputation -- he apparently opted to drug up, to cheat his employers, teammates, union brethren.



    His last months with the Dodgers were an embarrassment. He was often hurt, and only intermittently productive. The Dodgers, finally fed up with him, dumped him in a late-season deal with the White Sox, and Ramirez mustered exactly one RBI.

    Manny Ramirez
    Since trade to Dodgers in 2008

    Before susp. After susp.
    BA .380 .277
    OBP .490 .390
    Slug pct .710 .463
    AB per HR 12.1 24.6<<
    >>9 home runs in final 282 at-bats
    NOTE: Traded from Red Sox to Dodgers on July 31, 2008.
    Manny was very motivated as he joined the Rays, we heard. He was in tremendous condition, we heard. This was another contract year.



    And for at least the third time in his career, he weighed the risks versus the rewards and signs seem to indicate he opted to juice up, again. He was willing to break the rules and cheat his employers, teammates, union brethren, and fans. He got caught, and his career is over.



    Let's be real about this: Manny Ramirez wasn't the only one who cashed in on Manny being Manny. The Indians and the Red Sox and the Dodgers made money from his production and from that what-a-wild-crazy-guy image -- Mannywood? -- and the media feasted, as well; there were probably more words written and spoken about Manny in the past decade than any player not named Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens.



    But now Manny is headed to Spain, where he can have a big laugh at the expense of all those folks he left behind.


    He won.
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,808
    The Fixer wrote:
    manny is a loser. olney summed things up well in his blog today

    BOSTON -- Manny Ramirez looks like a different guy this spring, we heard over and over. Wow, his bat speed looks so much better, scouts raved. The guy is in phenomenal condition, they said. He looks a lot stronger, they said.

    The Red Sox players saw the same thing. After word broke Friday that Ramirez had retired instead of facing suspension, David Ortiz said that the Boston players talked in their dugout this spring about how good Manny looked, how quick his bat was. This was especially striking, because late last season, in his brief time with the White Sox, Ramirez's bat speed had all but disappeared, and evaluators from some teams were convinced he was finished.

    But now he's gone, retiring abruptly after he was informed that he had tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and faced a possible 100-game suspension.

    Former teammates like Jonathan Papelbon and Ortiz and B.J. Upton and Andre Ethier spoke respectfully about what a good teammate he was, what an incredible talent he was. And Hall of Fame voters, like colleague Jayson Stark and I, will mention, fairly, the incredible numbers Ramirez compiled, the 555 home runs and the .312 career average, and we will weigh how the circumstances of his retirement will weigh in the rendering of his legacy.

    And where is Manny in all of this? Well, he's probably laughing at everybody.

    Legacy? Hall of Fame? Teammates? Does anyone really think, after all we've seen in the past decade, that Ramirez cares about any of that?

    He won. He's like the guy who robbed a bank of millions and was sentenced to 10 hours of community service.

    According to his page on Baseballreference.com, Manny Ramirez made over $200 million for his career. How many of those dollars, those 555 home runs, were hit with the help of performance-enhancing drugs? Who knows? You could say a handful or you could say all of them and this would be fair speculation, given the evidence of his stunningly shameless use of performance-enhancing drugs in recent years.

    For the first half of Ramirez's career, Major League Baseball was a wild, wild West of steroid use, with widespread use and virtually no oversight. Oh, sure, there was a loose structure in place whereby a crackdown was possible, but no one ever really did anything.

    But in 2002, the players' union that Ramirez is a part of took its first steps toward drug testing, largely because a number of players within it lobbied quietly for change. Veterans like Todd Zeile had come to understand that the increase in drug use had forced many players to make a very difficult decision: Either stay clean, without benefit of performance-enhancing drugs, and risk being surpassed professionally by players who were juicing; or join the crowd and take the drugs too.

    The union agreed to survey testing, in an effort to keep all of the union brethren on a level playing field. And despite the fact that everybody knew when the tests were being administered, and despite all that was at stake for the reputation of the union, Ramirez reportedly tested positive in 2003. He apparently didn't care about the whole level playing-field thing, or the fact that a positive test might lead to more testing for others; he used anyway. He was perfectly willing to cheat teammates, cheat other players.



    Manny Ramirez Since Suspension
    Games 172
    BA .277
    HR 22<<
    RBI 86
    K 129
    << only 1 HR in last 45 games
    * played for 3 teams (LAD, CHW, TB)


    In the summer of 2008, as his contract with the Red Sox was set to expire, he forced his way out of Boston -- convincing club executives that he was intent on sabotaging the team -- and in two months with the Dodgers, he put on a stunning display of production, hitting about .400. He looked liked a different guy with the Dodgers. His bat speed looks so much better, scouts raved. The guy is in phenomenal condition, they said. He looks a lot stronger, they said.



    And after getting an extension of two years and $45 million, he was suspended under the terms of baseball's drug policy. In other words, knowing all the risks -- to his own legacy, his Hall of Fame chances, his reputation -- he apparently opted to drug up, to cheat his employers, teammates, union brethren.



    His last months with the Dodgers were an embarrassment. He was often hurt, and only intermittently productive. The Dodgers, finally fed up with him, dumped him in a late-season deal with the White Sox, and Ramirez mustered exactly one RBI.

    Manny Ramirez
    Since trade to Dodgers in 2008

    Before susp. After susp.
    BA .380 .277
    OBP .490 .390
    Slug pct .710 .463
    AB per HR 12.1 24.6<<
    >>9 home runs in final 282 at-bats
    NOTE: Traded from Red Sox to Dodgers on July 31, 2008.
    Manny was very motivated as he joined the Rays, we heard. He was in tremendous condition, we heard. This was another contract year.



    And for at least the third time in his career, he weighed the risks versus the rewards and signs seem to indicate he opted to juice up, again. He was willing to break the rules and cheat his employers, teammates, union brethren, and fans. He got caught, and his career is over.



    Let's be real about this: Manny Ramirez wasn't the only one who cashed in on Manny being Manny. The Indians and the Red Sox and the Dodgers made money from his production and from that what-a-wild-crazy-guy image -- Mannywood? -- and the media feasted, as well; there were probably more words written and spoken about Manny in the past decade than any player not named Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens.



    But now Manny is headed to Spain, where he can have a big laugh at the expense of all those folks he left behind.


    He won.

    why is still considered for the hall? that's not fair.
    I miss igotid88
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,808
    If manny was a yankee the press would be even harder on him.
    I miss igotid88
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo Posts: 11,395
    ed243421 wrote:
    they didnt face the pitching he did

    What an incredibly inaccurate statement.

    Seriously. This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen posted on the internet. (is that saying something or what?) Ever hear of Sandy Koufax, Box Gibson, Don Drysdale, Jim Bunning, Chris Short...

    The 60s is known as the era of the pitcher. Read up on your history before posting things like this, please.
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  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,808
    ed243421 wrote:
    they didnt face the pitching he did

    What an incredibly inaccurate statement.

    Seriously. This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen posted on the internet. (is that saying something or what?) Ever hear of Sandy Koufax, Box Gibson, Don Drysdale, Jim Bunning, Chris Short...

    The 60s is known as the era of the pitcher. Read up on your history before posting things like this, please.

    the mound was also higher so that had a little to do with it
    I miss igotid88
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo Posts: 11,395
    igotid88 wrote:
    the mound was also higher so that had a little to do with it

    And ballparks were bigger. Many many reasons why it was actually harder for Mays & Aaron than for this clown.
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  • Newch91Newch91 Posts: 17,560
    ed243421 wrote:
    greatest right-handed hitter ever
    made a few mistakes
    I'm gonna go with Joltin' Joe DiMaggio.
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,598
    Newch91 wrote:
    ed243421 wrote:
    greatest right-handed hitter ever
    made a few mistakes
    I'm gonna go with Joltin' Joe DiMaggio.


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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,980
    ed243421 wrote:
    greatest right-handed hitter ever
    made a few mistakes

    Hank Aaron laughs at you
    theres a guy with some class .
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  • jethrojam420jethrojam420 Posts: 1,075
    igotid88 wrote:
    If manny was a yankee the press would be even harder on him.

    doubtful. ARod. 'nuff said there....
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  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,808
    igotid88 wrote:
    If manny was a yankee the press would be even harder on him.

    doubtful. ARod. 'nuff said there....

    what are you talking about they were on a-rod.
    I miss igotid88
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