Why doesn't anyone remember the 1990's?

musicismylife78

the thread on the nirvana unplugged episode, gave me the idea for this thread. There are no doubt people who saw Nirvana in their glory days, in 91 in seattle or even early 94 in seattle, for nirvanas last show. or nirvanas unplugged. Maybe they were at the unreal shows when Pearl jam, the peppers and the pumpkins were all on the same bill.

Or maybe some people were among those thousands who gathered at The Seattle Center in the days after kurt died, to figure out what it all meant

Our parents can talk about (if they remember) Woodstock, or their hippie days, the protests and sit ins and riots. Our parents told us where they were when JFK and RFK and MLK were shot.

And we will no doubt explain about 9/11 and katrina and iraq to our own kids. But ive always found it wierd how you never hear of people who were at the events I listened above for our generation. The unplugged nirvana show. Have you ever seen on tv a single person interviewed or talk about attending that show? In 2001 MTV did a retrospective on the event and interviewed 1 guy who was there, 1 single fan. thats it.

Ive never seen anyone on tv since 1994 saying they were at the Seattle center mourning Kurt. and on and on.

Chuck Klosterman viewed Kurt's death as the single most important event of our generation, this was prior to 9/11 that he made the statement so things may have changed, but no doubt kurt's death was huge.

Im curious to figure out why we, our generation never talks about these things, not just kurt, but about the legendary shows of the 90's, and all that.

Where are all those people? Why arent people of Gen X telling their kids about these events?

evenflowman

Never forgetr where i was at when that happend love the 90s and people say i am stuck in them . Greatest time of my life

SH17171

Nice Topic I tell my kids aged 20 and 16 all about the music in the 90s and 80s and the 70s showing my age they ask questions about this and that about the bands we (my wife and I ) have seen the fashions of music how bands got together or split. I can talk to them for hours and they never get bored with it.They listen to the music that we like also now come to gigs with us now family night out To have the same love for music and music history is cool and important

Aga81

I tell you why? Because it wasn't good enough for media as the other things you mention. When JFK was killed - it was shoked as well as 9/11 - TV was there to show the whole world but you know what some ppl said after Kurt's death - just another junkie... that's all. Maybe it's because in '90s it wasn't so unique that some rock stars died... I think not many ppl were and r interested in tis subject. But you're right someone, who was there could say something abt. Because nobody talks it doesn't mean no one remembers... I remember but because of place I live I couldn't be there. But it would be nice to read or here some story... So c'mon ppl tell us something

I have to amit - I was 13 when Kurt died, but still remember my school friends and the sadness...

aspoonfulweighsaton

I think it's hard for people to equate suicide as being a tragedy. While I was no doubt initially saddened by it, the fact that he did it to himself ended up making me more angry than sad. When someone's legacy includes that they were a junkie and a coward you're not going to find but so many people who think it was a monumental tragedy. Unheard of? Sure. But not monumental. I love Chuck Klosterman, but I think he was way off on his assessment. This was not even close to being on the same level as JFK, Lennon, 9/11, and other "where were you?" moments.

Overall though I think everyone fondly remembers the 1990s, but just don't talk about it much since there wasn't really a "generation-defining" tragedy in the United States like the ones mentioned above.

pandora

my boy was 10..... he profoundly remembers getting the news of Kurt
he adored him. That moment will be with him all his life

and I'll never forget the moment I heard Lennon was shot and JFK

I have pictures in my head when Lennon died...the small clock radio lighting the room delivering the shocking news JB and I laying in our waterbed...tears and disbelief

JFK in my 2nd grade class the big clock on the wall the feel of my desktop, being let go home
to find my Mama crying at home

so I think perhaps how much you loved or the impact on those you love and mankind in general that helps us to remember.

Researchers say adrenaline enhances our memories...saw an interesting 60 Minutes on this.

keeponrockin

Because Kurt's death wasn't nearly as important as 9/11 or Katrina. It's not like Lennon's where he was murdered with cold blood outside his house, the shock was less, especially after the facts came out later with the OD in Rome, etc..

I don't think MTV unplugged was as important as The Beatles on Ed Sullivan (though I listen to it more).

intodeep

Maybe you aren't hanging out with the right people?

I have a couple of buddies who are a little older then me (i am 32) and they wre in college in the early 90's and they talk about all the bad ass shows they saw. The always like to bring up how they were at lolla when it was awesome with PJ, RHCP, Soundgarden, etc.

Johnny Abruzzo

Sorry, I have no idea where I was when Kurt Cobain died.

I remember everyone in my high school singing Alive on the bus coming back from a ski trip. I guess my school was a "Pearl Jam" school.

Back_Pedal

musicismylife78 wrote:

And we will no doubt explain about 9/11 and katrina and iraq to our own kids.

Please, please, please don't compare rock music to national tragedies and wars.

musicismylife78

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

I think it's hard for people to equate suicide as being a tragedy. While I was no doubt initially saddened by it, the fact that he did it to himself ended up making me more angry than sad. When someone's legacy includes that they were a junkie and a coward you're not going to find but so many people who think it was a monumental tragedy. Unheard of? Sure. But not monumental. I love Chuck Klosterman, but I think he was way off on his assessment. This was not even close to being on the same level as JFK, Lennon, 9/11, and other "where were you?" moments.

Overall though I think everyone fondly remembers the 1990s, but just don't talk about it much since there wasn't really a "generation-defining" tragedy in the United States like the ones mentioned above.

i was only 10 when kurt died, but i remember it vividly. i remember where i was, what section of the paper the news was in, lower right hand of the front page, and we all can see how his death greatly affected the music of that time. PJ nearly disbanded, and one can argue kurts death also killed off grunge.

while everyones opinion of kurt and his death may have changed in the 16 years or whatever since he;s been gone, i do think his death at the time was a huge event and issue. Whatever has happened since, the facts remain that several days after he died, thousands of people gathered at Seattle Center, and cried, and lit candles, burning their flannel, and tried to make sense out of it all.

it seems like Gen X has moved on from believing Kurt was speaking for their generation, but i think what he stood for, what he talked about, its hard to articulate. he really was speaking for the underdog, people who didnt have voices and he meant alot to many people, millions of teens at the time. To leave the stage, so violently and so shockingly was earthshattering. Here was a guy who spoke up for people without a voice, tapped into something real and important, and he was gone, dead. I think that shook alot of people to the core.

kurt and nirvana have never on this board received a fair shake. ever. we all love PJ, but Ive said it for years, PJ is a great band, Im a fan and have been for close to 2 decades, but when all is said and done and the history books are written, the band that will be remembered and the frontman most remembered and most revered will be nirvana and kurt.

We all know how obsessed with music we were as teens. it was our nurishment basically. we needed it. To have a band and musician who you feel speaks to you and your life is a life affirming event. And to have all that taken away is devastating.

musicismylife78

Back_Pedal wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

And we will no doubt explain about 9/11 and katrina and iraq to our own kids.

Please, please, please don't compare rock music to national tragedies and wars.

indeed those were national tragedies and wars and are serious buisness. But along with that, music has always been as important to me as breathing. There is a reason my username is what it is. It isnt some joke. Its how i view the world and art.

As much as people are loathe to admit it now, there no doubt were many teens in the early 90's who felt kurt's music was speaking directly to them and helped them out in ways that are difficult to describe. The pain that his death caused these kids is just as real as the pain of those who looked up to MLK and RFK and JFK and all that. And lets face it, i consider JFK, RFK, and MLK all heroes, and people I look to for inspiration, but music and art can infiltrate ones life in ways politicians cant. When one is mad, one can turn on Nevermind or In Utero. Its instantaneuous.

musicismylife78

keeponrockin wrote:

Because Kurt's death wasn't nearly as important as 9/11 or Katrina. It's not like Lennon's where he was murdered with cold blood outside his house, the shock was less, especially after the facts came out later with the OD in Rome, etc..

I don't think MTV unplugged was as important as The Beatles on Ed Sullivan (though I listen to it more).

I gotta disagree. Kurts death was extremely shocking. No other musician in history up until that point had become so insanely popular, and killed themselves so publicly and in a manner so gruesome. One could obviously say in essense Jimi and Jim and Janis and Keith all killed themselves by default, but Kurts death was a shock. I certainly didnt expect it.

musicismylife78

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

I think it's hard for people to equate suicide as being a tragedy. While I was no doubt initially saddened by it, the fact that he did it to himself ended up making me more angry than sad. When someone's legacy includes that they were a junkie and a coward you're not going to find but so many people who think it was a monumental tragedy. Unheard of? Sure. But not monumental. I love Chuck Klosterman, but I think he was way off on his assessment. This was not even close to being on the same level as JFK, Lennon, 9/11, and other "where were you?" moments.

Overall though I think everyone fondly remembers the 1990s, but just don't talk about it much since there wasn't really a "generation-defining" tragedy in the United States like the ones mentioned above.

additionally, ive never understood the idea of pegging kurt as a coward, and a junkie. How many other musicians are heroes of ours who were junkies as well? Jimi, Jim, Janis, Jimmy page, Clapton, and on and on. Yet people have no problem with these folks. The guy was 27 years old. I will be 27 in a few days and I dont have myself figured out at all. Im just as lost and confused and scared as I was when I was a teen. To suggest kurt because he was famous or rich was somehow above or didnt have all these issues of self doubt and confusion is to deny reality.

Back_Pedal

musicismylife78 wrote:

Back_Pedal wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

And we will no doubt explain about 9/11 and katrina and iraq to our own kids.

Please, please, please don't compare rock music to national tragedies and wars.

indeed those were national tragedies and wars and are serious buisness. But along with that, music has always been as important to me as breathing. There is a reason my username is what it is. It isnt some joke. Its how i view the world and art.

As much as people are loathe to admit it now, there no doubt were many teens in the early 90's who felt kurt's music was speaking directly to them and helped them out in ways that are difficult to describe. The pain that his death caused these kids is just as real as the pain of those who looked up to MLK and RFK and JFK and all that. And lets face it, i consider JFK, RFK, and MLK all heroes, and people I look to for inspiration, but music and art can infiltrate ones life in ways politicians cant. When one is mad, one can turn on Nevermind or In Utero. Its instantaneuous.

No matter how important it is to you, it is NOT on the same scale as thousands upon thousands of deaths, and wars that affect the outcome of the world. Music is important to me too, but I wouldn't go as far as comparing Kurt's death to a war where thousands of soldiers died.

keeponrockin

musicismylife78 wrote:

indeed those were national tragedies and wars and are serious buisness. But along with that, music has always been as important to me as breathing. There is a reason my username is what it is. It isnt some joke. Its how i view the world and art.

As much as people are loathe to admit it now, there no doubt were many teens in the early 90's who felt kurt's music was speaking directly to them and helped them out in ways that are difficult to describe. The pain that his death caused these kids is just as real as the pain of those who looked up to MLK and RFK and JFK and all that. And lets face it, i consider JFK, RFK, and MLK all heroes, and people I look to for inspiration, but music and art can infiltrate ones life in ways politicians cant. When one is mad, one can turn on Nevermind or In Utero. Its instantaneuous.

I love music as much as anyone, huge collection, go to shows regularly. However, MLK lead the most important movement of the 20th century, if not all of American history. Kurt wrote some great music. Hard to compare. The 90s were great musically, and I think they're remembered fondly.

Aga81

I think that my own feelings abt someones death don't have to be important as well to other ppl... War touched almost all nations, millions of ppl, young and old... so it's not the same as Kurt's death. Trust me there r ppl who has never heard abt Nirvana and Kurt - know it's weird but it's true... His death was shock in some part of music world - not whole music world...

StillHere

If we were comparing artistic tragedies to wartime tragedies, i most definitely missed that part. in any case i want to say that I think that people certainly do remember the 90s
obviously WE do
and when all you 25-35-ishes are in your 40s and 50s
then you'll see the reminiscing
just as we do now the 60s and 70s
my two oldest kids were in their young mid teens when kurt died
if effected them deeply
i recall my son locking himself in his room and drowning himself in grunge for a long long time
mourning...
and my middle daughter, a couple of years younger but aware of the music and the grunge culture
by proxy of her brother
put on her best black kurt shirt and wouldn't stop wearing it for months upon months
getting it away to wash it, i remember, was a huge deal
so, it did effect us all
i just think that society as a whole tries to brush all these sorts of things under the rug
and has
before kurt and andy and layne, we all loved jimi hendrix and janis joplin and jim morrison and so many others who died young, and they all, in contrast to the late great heroes of the 50s and 60s, died by their own hand, more or less, if not directly, the through the use of illegal substances, which in the eyes of "society" pretty much amounts to the same thing. i think that's a major part of why the 90s and the lives of the great musicians who passed during the grunge era go uncelebrated. they didn't die in an airplane crash or the like...rather they committed suicide or drugged/drank themselves to death. its a dark era..and many would rather forget....
unlike us, who chose to remember, and celebrate the lives of great artists. remember, great pain often creates great art. such is the price paid.
the difference in the lives and deaths of folks like MLK and JFK, in comparison to Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin are obvious. There is no comparison in life, nor in death. Nor is a world war comparable to a war with drugs or personal problems, as much as it might feel so to those suffering.
and then there's elvis, apparently he gets special treatment.
as for me
i CHOOSE to embrace the music of the 90s and will happily forget the music of the 80s...geez man what were they thinking?
i can proudly say that i want directly from the 70s to the 90s

aspoonfulweighsaton

musicismylife78 wrote:

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

I think it's hard for people to equate suicide as being a tragedy. While I was no doubt initially saddened by it, the fact that he did it to himself ended up making me more angry than sad. When someone's legacy includes that they were a junkie and a coward you're not going to find but so many people who think it was a monumental tragedy. Unheard of? Sure. But not monumental. I love Chuck Klosterman, but I think he was way off on his assessment. This was not even close to being on the same level as JFK, Lennon, 9/11, and other "where were you?" moments.

Overall though I think everyone fondly remembers the 1990s, but just don't talk about it much since there wasn't really a "generation-defining" tragedy in the United States like the ones mentioned above.

additionally, ive never understood the idea of pegging kurt as a coward, and a junkie. How many other musicians are heroes of ours who were junkies as well? Jimi, Jim, Janis, Jimmy page, Clapton, and on and on. Yet people have no problem with these folks. The guy was 27 years old. I will be 27 in a few days and I dont have myself figured out at all. Im just as lost and confused and scared as I was when I was a teen. To suggest kurt because he was famous or rich was somehow above or didnt have all these issues of self doubt and confusion is to deny reality.

I probably shouldn't have even said junkie since that is fairly standard like you said, but I stand by the coward part. Anyone who thinks they are better off dead and leaves a family behind will always be a coward in my book.

For the record, I will always remember where I was that day. I was a month or so away from graduating high school and at a very pivotal time in my life. While Nirvana was always my fourth favorite "Seattle band", it still crushed me initially, but like I said earlier my feelings toward the whole thing changed once I had time to soak it all in.

RedMosquito22

musicismylife78 wrote:

the thread on the nirvana unplugged episode, gave me the idea for this thread. There are no doubt people who saw Nirvana in their glory days, in 91 in seattle or even early 94 in seattle, for nirvanas last show. or nirvanas unplugged. Maybe they were at the unreal shows when Pearl jam, the peppers and the pumpkins were all on the same bill.

Or maybe some people were among those thousands who gathered at The Seattle Center in the days after kurt died, to figure out what it all meant

Our parents can talk about (if they remember) Woodstock, or their hippie days, the protests and sit ins and riots. Our parents told us where they were when JFK and RFK and MLK were shot.

And we will no doubt explain about 9/11 and katrina and iraq to our own kids. But ive always found it wierd how you never hear of people who were at the events I listened above for our generation. The unplugged nirvana show. Have you ever seen on tv a single person interviewed or talk about attending that show? In 2001 MTV did a retrospective on the event and interviewed 1 guy who was there, 1 single fan. thats it.

Ive never seen anyone on tv since 1994 saying they were at the Seattle center mourning Kurt. and on and on.

Chuck Klosterman viewed Kurt's death as the single most important event of our generation, this was prior to 9/11 that he made the statement so things may have changed, but no doubt kurt's death was huge.

Im curious to figure out why we, our generation never talks about these things, not just kurt, but about the legendary shows of the 90's, and all that.

Where are all those people? Why arent people of Gen X telling their kids about these events?

As much as I loved Kurt and Nirvana and was upset about his death, I find it hard to celebrate or to tell kids about a junkie who took his own life. Sorry.

JonnyPistachio

I think things like Nirvana are so big, (or were so big at their time) that many just dont talk aobut it that much because it is so vivid. I think big things from the early 90's will start to come around again soon though.

As far as Kurts death, I know most of my friends just try not to contemplate it too much because we like to remember him by his music. I dont know how many people were lucky enough to see them live at their pinnacle, but i've never met anyone that had seen them.

my point is, that within a few years, stuff like the early 90's will recirculate. it always does.. Maybe with the exception of the 80's! lol (we dont REALLY need to remember the 80's now do we?!)

RedMosquito22

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Maybe with the exception of the 80's! lol (we dont REALLY need to remember the 80's now do we?!)

Michael Jackson and Madonna will never lose luster and I loved the cars and the underground punk scene with the Misfits, 7 Seconds, Minor Threat, The Ramones, Dead Kennedy's, Social Distortion, etc. I really liked The Cars too. If you are referring to top 40, I don't know if I ever liked top 40 much in my lifetime and I agree with you there.

JonnyPistachio

RedMosquito22 wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Maybe with the exception of the 80's! lol (we dont REALLY need to remember the 80's now do we?!)

Michael Jackson and Madonna will never lose luster and I loved the cars and the underground punk scene with the Misfits, 7 Seconds, Minor Threat, The Ramones, Dead Kennedy's, Social Distortion, etc. I really liked The Cars too. If you are referring to top 40, I don't know if I ever liked top 40 much in my lifetime and I agree with you there.

haha, good points... I was mostly kidding about what was popular.
I dig the cars & love the Dead Kennedys!
And Phil Collins man!
This quote really spoke to me:
"I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite."

catefrances

conman

Back_Pedal wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

And we will no doubt explain about 9/11 and katrina and iraq to our own kids.

Please, please, please don't compare rock music to national tragedies and wars.

enough said.

catefrances

conman wrote:

Back_Pedal wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

And we will no doubt explain about 9/11 and katrina and iraq to our own kids.

Please, please, please don't compare rock music to national tragedies and wars.

enough said.

all death is tragic. its just the circumstances that change.

Aga81

Sprry it's OT but... you're talkin bat '90s but how do you think, after some years we will talk abt our bands to our kids, I mean PJ for example, we can attend their shows and so on - but they won't be last forever on the stage - I think there is no good new bands and does it mean grunge is on the edge its existence?

ShimmyMommy

I remember the 90s.

IMO, there was no one event of the 90s. All events made a combination so they could "shift" everyone in some way. Events of any decade are the catalyst that makes a generation become conscious.

For instance, almost everything in the 90s had an impact on me, both good and bad. It was a very dark time in my own life too. I think about the 90s and pay reverance in my own ways. It was then that I had truly "deciphered the illusion, trading magic for fact...no tradebacks". The 90s, with all it's negativity and upheaval, positively changed how I move through life forever.

Because of the 90s, I learned that the only thing I can really change first, is my perspective, then I can change anything I want next.

Sorry to have seem like a buzzkill. :?

JonnyPistachio

ShimmyMommy wrote:

I remember the 90s.

IMO, there was no one event of the 90s. All events made a combination so they could "shift" everyone in some way. Events of any decade are the catalyst that makes a generation become conscious.

For instance, almost everything in the 90s had an impact on me, both good and bad. It was a very dark time in my own life too. I think about the 90s and pay reverance in my own ways. It was then that I had truly "deciphered the illusion, trading magic for fact...no tradebacks". The 90s, with all it's negativity and upheaval, positively changed how I move through life forever.

Because of the 90s, I learned that the only thing I can really change first, is my perspective, then I can change anything I want next.

Sorry to have seem like a buzzkill. :?

Not a buzzkill.. I can relate.
Its special that we had such good (and pioneering) music to get us through certian times. I had very rough times in the early 90's too, but there were great times as well. To look back on them and have music that reminds me of it is extra special.

and yes, its all a matter of perspective.. glad you figured out how to work it!

ShimmyMommy

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Not a buzzkill.. I can relate.
Its special that we had such good (and pioneering) music to get us through certian times. I had very rough times in the early 90's too, but there were great times as well. To look back on them and have music that reminds me of it is extra special.

and yes, its all a matter of perspective.. glad you figured out how to work it!

thank you same to you

BH304897

RedMosquito22 wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

the thread on the nirvana unplugged episode, gave me the idea for this thread. There are no doubt people who saw Nirvana in their glory days, in 91 in seattle or even early 94 in seattle, for nirvanas last show. or nirvanas unplugged. Maybe they were at the unreal shows when Pearl jam, the peppers and the pumpkins were all on the same bill.

Or maybe some people were among those thousands who gathered at The Seattle Center in the days after kurt died, to figure out what it all meant

Our parents can talk about (if they remember) Woodstock, or their hippie days, the protests and sit ins and riots. Our parents told us where they were when JFK and RFK and MLK were shot.

And we will no doubt explain about 9/11 and katrina and iraq to our own kids. But ive always found it wierd how you never hear of people who were at the events I listened above for our generation. The unplugged nirvana show. Have you ever seen on tv a single person interviewed or talk about attending that show? In 2001 MTV did a retrospective on the event and interviewed 1 guy who was there, 1 single fan. thats it.

Ive never seen anyone on tv since 1994 saying they were at the Seattle center mourning Kurt. and on and on.

Chuck Klosterman viewed Kurt's death as the single most important event of our generation, this was prior to 9/11 that he made the statement so things may have changed, but no doubt kurt's death was huge.

Im curious to figure out why we, our generation never talks about these things, not just kurt, but about the legendary shows of the 90's, and all that.

Where are all those people? Why arent people of Gen X telling their kids about these events?

As much as I loved Kurt and Nirvana and was upset about his death, I find it hard to celebrate or to tell kids about a junkie who took his own life. Sorry.

I honestly can't believe people here are choosing to remember kurt as a "coward and a junkie" as opposed to the truely gifted artist that he was. Also i think its a bit naive to think that by not telling kids about him they won't learn about it on their own. I think the best way to handle it would to tell kids about kurt and use it as a teaching experience. I would explain how great an artist he was and how big he was at the time followed by the pressures of society and drugs and the ultimate expense that was paid. Suicide victims are not right in the head and many people have suicidal thoughts and I think you should teach children that if they ever experience them they should seek help from someone. Unfortunatly kurt turned to drugs and we know how things ended, but that still doesn't take away his music and everything he left us. Kurt was a lot of things but a coward he was not. On another side note, Hendrix was anything but a junkie as well.

As far as the original post I would hope that anyone with kids would at least explain what 90's music meant and how much Kurt was a part of that. I would explain gen x and how he along with eddie were the role models. I also think the comparison with how both handled their sudden fame could be a learning lesson.