He was a two term president before tonight, and he is now almost unbeatable.
Last night has zero impact on his re-election.
A little history lesson:
The February of his 2nd term election, Bush I had THE highest approval rating of any President since that sort of thing was tracked (and since, as a matter of fact. It was something like 93% which is pretty f'n impossible if you think about it). The economy went in the shitter and he lost just 9 months later to the Governor of the 48th ranked financial State (and declining) in the Union.
So, while kudos to Obama for giving the order. Anyone who thinks this effects next election is kidding themselves. We don't have a long enough memory as a society for something like this.
(Not saying he will win or lose. Just saying this impacts nothing with regard to the election.)
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
So, while kudos to Obama for giving the order. Anyone who thinks this effects next election is kidding themselves. We don't have a long enough memory as a society for something like this.
(Not saying he will win or lose. Just saying this impacts nothing with regard to the election.)
I agree--and anyone who was in office would have given the same order.
He was a two term president before tonight, and he is now almost unbeatable.
Last night has zero impact on his re-election.
A little history lesson:
The February of his 2nd term election, Bush I had THE highest approval rating of any President since that sort of thing was tracked (and since, as a matter of fact. It was something like 93% which is pretty f'n impossible if you think about it). The economy went in the shitter and he lost just 9 months later to the Governor of the 48th ranked financial State (and declining) in the Union.
So, while kudos to Obama for giving the order. Anyone who thinks this effects next election is kidding themselves. We don't have a long enough memory as a society for something like this.
(Not saying he will win or lose. Just saying this impacts nothing with regard to the election.)
No offense...but nobody has ever delivered a man that symbolized evil like this since Hitler. Before you say it...Sadaam wasn't directly blamed for 9/11...so killing him didn't boost Bush Jr. Even the righties are giving Obama his due. He just keeps putting checks next to his list of Presidential promises.
2012 is a done deal as of today! He would have to fuck this up to lose now.
"Had my eyes peeled both wide open, and I got a glimpse...of my innocense, got back my inner sence, baby got it...still got it"
No offense...but nobody has ever delivered a man that symbolized evil like this since Hitler. Before you say it...Sadaam wasn't directly blamed for 9/11...so killing him didn't boost Bush Jr. Even the righties are giving Obama his due. He just keeps putting checks next to his list of Presidential promises.
2012 is a done deal as of today! He would have to fuck this up to lose now.
Why would I take offense? History shows I'm correct. Bush I executed Desert Storm in 5 days. Again, his approval rating was 93%! Wrap your mind around that. I'd be shocked if Obama is anywhere close to that even right now. His issues had nothing to do with Osama. It was a ton of other things that this does not solve. Not saying he doesn't deserve credit here. Just saying an election 18 months from now will make this nothing more than a footnote. It certainly doesn't hurt. But in and of itself wins him nothing in the long term (ie more than a month). If the economy does not turn around, he's doomed, plain and simple.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
$5 gas and 9% unemployment will defeat Obama. Period.
So, while kudos to Obama for giving the order. Anyone who thinks this effects next election is kidding themselves. We don't have a long enough memory as a society for something like this.
(Not saying he will win or lose. Just saying this impacts nothing with regard to the election.)
generation y and generation z will prove you wrong
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
So, while kudos to Obama for giving the order. Anyone who thinks this effects next election is kidding themselves. We don't have a long enough memory as a society for something like this.
(Not saying he will win or lose. Just saying this impacts nothing with regard to the election.)
generation y and generation z will prove you wrong
People aren't saying generation z, are they? Using y already lacked enough creativity. Good thing it's at the bottom of the alphabet.
So, while kudos to Obama for giving the order. Anyone who thinks this effects next election is kidding themselves. We don't have a long enough memory as a society for something like this.
(Not saying he will win or lose. Just saying this impacts nothing with regard to the election.)
generation y and generation z will prove you wrong
Each generation's attention span gets shorter and shorter. I think I'm X and mine is 0, so I'm presuming Y is -10 and z is -1000, which will make row AA -1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or, the size of our National Debt by the time they are born if the size of the deficit continues to grow at the pace it has these last 2 years.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
If the economy does not turn around, he's doomed, plain and simple.
I agree with this statement. I feel the poor state of the economy personally now more than I ever have in 20 years of working, and so do many other people who are close to me (some who have been in the working force for 40 years). It's a state of disaster and what happened with Osama bin Laden doesn't change my opinion of the terrible state of the economy in the least. You couldn't pay me to vote him in again.
If the economy does not turn around, he's doomed, plain and simple.
I agree with this statement. I feel the poor state of the economy personally now more than I ever have in 20 years of working, and so do many other people who are close to me (some who have been in the working force for 40 years). It's a state of disaster and what happened with Osama bin Laden doesn't change my opinion of the terrible state of the economy in the least. You couldn't pay me to vote him in again.
Are you going to vote for Huckabee or Romney instead?
If the economy does not turn around, he's doomed, plain and simple.
I agree with this statement. I feel the poor state of the economy personally now more than I ever have in 20 years of working, and so do many other people who are close to me (some who have been in the working force for 40 years). It's a state of disaster and what happened with Osama bin Laden doesn't change my opinion of the terrible state of the economy in the least. You couldn't pay me to vote him in again.
I feel your pain, but what did everyone expect in 2.5 years? I really do find our culture of instant gratification ridiculous. Not only did the President---and the same would be said if McCain won---have to stabilize the country after the worst economic crisis since the Great Depressions, but now he has to turn it around so it starts to grow again. The economy is growing, but obviously too slowly for the ultimate culture of instant gratification! But, it is growing. However, we have to look at the roadblocks:
1. infrastructure plans, tunnels, high speed rail, highways, bridges, are all being rejected by, mostly Rep., governors. This would help unemployment. Simple.
2. Corporate America is STILL sending jobs overseas. if we want this to stop, then we make a concerted effort to Buy American. We have embraced this free-market system, and now we are paying the price for it. We have also become slaves to the Corporate Oligarchy, and we sleepwalk through their complete dominion over us. We run to the big-box stores without even once thinking about how it is destroying the nation. 70% OF THE GARBAGE I WAL-MART IS MADE IN CHINA, YOU FOOLS!! viewtopic.php?f=13&t=147271 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 61606.html
3. Who is the road block to creating jobs? Trickle down economics does not work. I have read numerous books and articles on Reaganomics and Economics in the post-industrial age: this is what I do for fun. The consensus I have reached--from experts--is that the policy only favored the rich, and ultimately did not achieve all it set out to, or all it promised to. I know this may be hard to believe for all the sheep who cling to the Reagan Myth. Wake up and read a book, people, you DO NOT know everything.
4. if there ever was a President who wanted to help the lower-class and the middle-class, it is Obama (and, of course, Clinton). This is common, intelligent knowledge, but this is also America. Knowledge is out of the grasp of many. Read up on his policies, read up on how he is getting stonewalled at every pass.
That's it for now. Everyone please feel free to add to this list.
But, I do have to ask: How the f___ could anyone think that a Republican President would change this? Or an Independent?
I really wish everyone would just shut up. I'll start the trend. The United States is a pet store with a surplus of parrots and parakeets who won't shut up with their blabbering nonsense.
P.S. I tried to type as fast as I could. I know we--American Society--want immediate results, and Obama should have waived his magic wand to fix everything in 2 years. Shame on him. And, this is NOT a defense of Obama; this is a defense of the hope--diminishing--that I have for the return of intelligent discourse in this country. Sadly, it won't happen.
If the economy does not turn around, he's doomed, plain and simple.
I agree with this statement. I feel the poor state of the economy personally now more than I ever have in 20 years of working, and so do many other people who are close to me (some who have been in the working force for 40 years). It's a state of disaster and what happened with Osama bin Laden doesn't change my opinion of the terrible state of the economy in the least. You couldn't pay me to vote him in again.
I feel your pain, but what did everyone expect in 2.5 years? I really do find our culture of instant gratification ridiculous. Not only did the President---and the same would be said if McCain won---have to stabilize the country after the worst economic crisis since the Great Depressions, but now he has to turn it around so it starts to grow again. The economy is growing, but obviously too slowly for the ultimate culture of instant gratification! But, it is growing. However, we have to look at the roadblocks:
1. infrastructure plans, tunnels, high speed rail, highways, bridges, are all being rejected by, mostly Rep., governors. This would help unemployment. Simple.
2. Corporate America is STILL sending jobs overseas. if we want this to stop, then we make a concerted effort to Buy American. We have embraced this free-market system, and now we are paying the price for it. We have also become slaves to the Corporate Oligarchy, and we sleepwalk through their complete dominion over us. We run to the big-box stores without even once thinking about how it is destroying the nation. 70% OF THE GARBAGE I WAL-MART IS MADE IN CHINA, YOU FOOLS!! http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=147271 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 61606.html
3. Who is the road block to creating jobs? Trickle down economics does not work. I have read numerous books and articles on Reaganomics and Economics in the post-industrial age: this is what I do for fun. The consensus I have reached--from experts--is that the policy only favored the rich, and ultimately did not achieve all it set out to, or all it promised to. I know this may be hard to believe for all the sheep who cling to the Reagan Myth. Wake up and read a book, people, you DO NOT know everything.
4. if there ever was a President who wanted to help the lower-class and the middle-class, it is Obama (and, of course, Clinton). This is common, intelligent knowledge, but this is also America. Knowledge is out of the grasp of many. Read up on his policies, read up on how he is getting stonewalled at every pass.
That's it for now. Everyone please feel free to add to this list.
But, I do have to ask: How the f___ could anyone think that a Republican President would change this? Or an Independent?
I really wish everyone would just shut up. I'll start the trend. The United States is a pet store with a surplus of parrots and parakeets who won't shut up with their blabbering nonsense.
P.S. I tried to type as fast as I could. I know we--American Society--want immediate results, and Obama should have waived his magic wand to fix everything in 2 years. Shame on him. And, this is NOT a defense of Obama; this is a defense of the hope--diminishing--that I have for the return of intelligent discourse in this country. Sadly, it won't happen.
Just my two cents regarding my other post: it's not about instant gratification to me; it's more about the fact that it has gotten WORSE, and is the worst I have seen it in my [short] life. Also, it's about false promises...that said, they ALL do it regardless of WHO he/she is or from whichever party. Personally, I'm independent, unaffiliated registered because I agree with some issues on both sides. I just know that, as I said, I feel it more now in my life (and in peoples' lives directly around me) than I ever have.
p.s. and for the record, I liked Bill Clinton. Things are much much different now than they were then.
I'm guessing whygohome did not live through the late 70's. We have not quite gotten to the tremendous stagflation that the last "genius" President got us into. Obama, the current "too smart for everyone else" President it trying. Double digit interest rates with ridiculous inflation plus (relatively) high gas prices.
Reagan took 18 months to right that. So, enough with the Reaganomics didn't work, and that Obama has had it tougher than anyone else. Live it instead of reading about it. Reagonomics got bastardized through 2 Presidencies (Clinton and yes, Bush II who should have held his conservative beliefs instead of caving to the bleeding hearts). The critical component which Rudy Giuliani succesfully implemented in NYC (which is now being erroded by the current schmuck) is the reduction of Welfare rolls. Teach how to fish. Don't give the fish.
Reagan reduced unemployment to levels nobody ever thought possible. Just because the lower class didn't come up to meet the middle class does not mean it is still not the best idea. Giving them fish won't make them Middle Class either. Everyone should stop worrying about what the other guy's got and achieve as much as possible to make their lives as good as possible with the DNA they've been given. And then we can help the people that TRULY need help. It's Evolution, Baby!
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
I'm guessing whygohome did not live through the late 70's. We have not quite gotten to the tremendous stagflation that the last "genius" President got us into. Obama, the current "too smart for everyone else" President it trying. Double digit interest rates with ridiculous inflation plus (relatively) high gas prices.
Reagan took 18 months to right that. So, enough with the Reaganomics didn't work, and that Obama has had it tougher than anyone else. Live it instead of reading about it. Reagonomics got bastardized through 2 Presidencies (Clinton and yes, Bush II who should have held his conservative beliefs instead of caving to the bleeding hearts). The critical component which Rudy Giuliani succesfully implemented in NYC (which is now being erroded by the current schmuck) is the reduction of Welfare rolls. Teach how to fish. Don't give the fish.
Reagan reduced unemployment to levels nobody ever thought possible. Just because the lower class didn't come up to meet the middle class does not mean it is still not the best idea. Giving them fish won't make them Middle Class either. Everyone should stop worrying about what the other guy's got and achieve as much as possible to make their lives as good as possible with the DNA they've been given. And then we can help the people that TRULY need help. It's Evolution, Baby!
No, I did not...born in 1979, but I have spoken with many who did, including family and colleagues. When did I mention Carter? I feel that you missed the point of my post entirely and I find your generalized comments--directed at me--a bit foolish. "Live it instead of reading it." I have always said that experience is the greatest teacher, but it seems to me that in your opinion historical research has no place in an intelligent discussion. I guess the only view is the one seen in the present (or the one we want to see). How does one gain knowledge without reading and talking to those who have experience?
"We have not quite gotten to the tremendous stagflation that the last "genius" President got us into. Obama, the current "too smart for everyone else" President [is] trying." I love these types of quotes: "genius," "too smart for everyone." I don't recall anywhere saying that I want to hand out fish. I don't believe in hand outs, or spreading the wealth, but I do believe in spreading the opportunity. Under Reagan "the haves" continued to prosper, while "the have nots" continued to remain stagnant. As does the quality of life.
Now, we can go ahead and blame Welfare and other entitlements--programs that I support, but want strict regulation of, and programs that need reform--or we can look at the simple fact that the wealth is continually concentrated in the hands of the few, while working wages have remained stagnant (with respect to increases in cost of living). I don't attribute this all to hard work: let's not forget about nepotism, trust fund babies, and the simple idea that the system is set up to benefit those who have had a nice head start in life. I know too many people who have had everything in their lives handed to them by mommy and daddy (W. Bush) without accomplishing anything on their own. The sad part is that they are too narrow-minded to realize it.
And, it took Reagan far longer than 18 months. Unemployment rose under Reagan. Obviously, this was the backlash from Carter's presidency. It is important to note though, that it TOOK TIME. I agree that the economy improved under Reagan, but we need to look beyond simple facts: improved for whom? Who really benefited? Were there any banking/finance issues that arose? Also, why did it "sputter" in the early 1990s? Did the plan simply not have long-term strength? Or, was it because those who benefited were the few? And, the 1980s and the 2010s are very different. We do not know, I repeat, we do not know, what type of plan it will take to bring unemployment down to 5 or 6 percent. We can pretend we know to soothe our egos, but in the end we must embrace the fact that, like Socrates, we know nothing. We do know though, that those that always suffer most during difficult times are the lower class, and now, the middle class. Something needs to be done to change this.
Again, I simply think you missed the main point of my post, or, you simply wanted to focus on a few statements made. Either way.................
I'm guessing whygohome did not live through the late 70's. We have not quite gotten to the tremendous stagflation that the last "genius" President got us into. Obama, the current "too smart for everyone else" President it trying. Double digit interest rates with ridiculous inflation plus (relatively) high gas prices.
Reagan took 18 months to right that. So, enough with the Reaganomics didn't work, and that Obama has had it tougher than anyone else. Live it instead of reading about it. Reagonomics got bastardized through 2 Presidencies (Clinton and yes, Bush II who should have held his conservative beliefs instead of caving to the bleeding hearts). The critical component which Rudy Giuliani succesfully implemented in NYC (which is now being erroded by the current schmuck) is the reduction of Welfare rolls. Teach how to fish. Don't give the fish.
Reagan reduced unemployment to levels nobody ever thought possible. Just because the lower class didn't come up to meet the middle class does not mean it is still not the best idea. Giving them fish won't make them Middle Class either. Everyone should stop worrying about what the other guy's got and achieve as much as possible to make their lives as good as possible with the DNA they've been given. And then we can help the people that TRULY need help. It's Evolution, Baby!
No, I did not...born in 1979, but I have spoken with many who did, including family and colleagues. When did I mention Carter? I feel that you missed the point of my post entirely and I find your generalized comments--directed at me--a bit foolish. "Live it instead of reading it." I have always said that experience is the greatest teacher, but it seems to me that in your opinion historical research has no place in an intelligent discussion. I guess the only view is the one seen in the present (or the one we want to see). How does one gain knowledge without reading and talking to those who have experience?
"We have not quite gotten to the tremendous stagflation that the last "genius" President got us into. Obama, the current "too smart for everyone else" President [is] trying." I love these types of quotes: "genius," "too smart for everyone." I don't recall anywhere saying that I want to hand out fish. I don't believe in hand outs, or spreading the wealth, but I do believe in spreading the opportunity. Under Reagan "the haves" continued to prosper, while "the have nots" continued to remain stagnant. As does the quality of life.
Now, we can go ahead and blame Welfare and other entitlements--programs that I support, but want strict regulation of, and programs that need reform--or we can look at the simple fact that the wealth is continually concentrated in the hands of the few, while working wages have remained stagnant (with respect to increases in cost of living). I don't attribute this all to hard work: let's not forget about nepotism, trust fund babies, and the simple idea that the system is set up to benefit those who have had a nice head start in life. I know too many people who have had everything in their lives handed to them by mommy and daddy (W. Bush) without accomplishing anything on their own. The sad part is that they are too narrow-minded to realize it.
And, it took Reagan far longer than 18 months. Unemployment rose under Reagan. Obviously, this was the backlash from Carter's presidency. It is important to note though, that it TOOK TIME. I agree that the economy improved under Reagan, but we need to look beyond simple facts: improved for whom? Who really benefited? Were there any banking/finance issues that arose? Also, why did it "sputter" in the early 1990s? Did the plan simply not have long-term strength? Or, was it because those who benefited were the few? And, the 1980s and the 2010s are very different. We do not know, I repeat, we do not know, what type of plan it will take to bring unemployment down to 5 or 6 percent. We can pretend we know to soothe our egos, but in the end we must embrace the fact that, like Socrates, we know nothing. We do know though, that those that always suffer most during difficult times are the lower class, and now, the middle class. Something needs to be done to change this.
Again, I simply think you missed the main point of my post, or, you simply wanted to focus on a few statements made. Either way.................
Good posts and response by whygohome. I was born in 1970. Edson needs to read a book, because experience isn't everything when you view things through conservative lenses.
I do agree with whygo that the solution is not so simple.
However, I disagreed with the fact that the current economy is worse than what was handed off in 1980.
I never said anyone here called Obama or Jimmy Carter smart. That's the general thought while poor old Bush and Reagan didn't have a brain cell. So, I'm not sure why you took that so personal.
And yes, books are good. But, the only real reference to that was again, the fact that Obama somehow got dealt a tougher hand than Reagan (or anyone else for that matter).
He's had plenty of time. Unemployment is still up at 9% and that doesn't even include those that have given up. I want him to turn it around. I hope he turns it around. The fact is, he still has time. And I actually think over the next 12 months, you'll see him turn toward more conservative ideals in this regard. Partially b/c he has to with the House owned by the right. But, partially because, that's how the economy gets fixed. Liberal hand outs are a disaster and what has gotten us in this in the first place. That's why I've stated that what happened Sunday has no impact on the election. It is what he can do in the next 18 months to get the economy back on its feet.
One thing that WILL NOT work is increasing (or even sustaining) the current hand outs and taxing the "rich." 99 weeks of unemployment. That's absolutely ridiculous. Get a job at McDonald's and sustain while you look for your "real job." Where's the incentive for some people when you can get paid for doing nothing for almost 2 years? We need to stop spending, or nothing else matters.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
I do agree with whygo that the solution is not so simple.
However, I disagreed with the fact that the current economy is worse than what was handed off in 1980.
I never said anyone here called Obama or Jimmy Carter smart. That's the general thought while poor old Bush and Reagan didn't have a brain cell. So, I'm not sure why you took that so personal.
And yes, books are good. But, the only real reference to that was again, the fact that Obama somehow got dealt a tougher hand than Reagan (or anyone else for that matter).
He's had plenty of time. Unemployment is still up at 9% and that doesn't even include those that have given up. I want him to turn it around. I hope he turns it around. The fact is, he still has time. And I actually think over the next 12 months, you'll see him turn toward more conservative ideals in this regard. Partially b/c he has to with the House owned by the right. But, partially because, that's how the economy gets fixed. Liberal hand outs are a disaster and what has gotten us in this in the first place. That's why I've stated that what happened Sunday has no impact on the election. It is what he can do in the next 18 months to get the economy back on its feet.
One thing that WILL NOT work is increasing (or even sustaining) the current hand outs and taxing the "rich." 99 weeks of unemployment. That's absolutely ridiculous. Get a job at McDonald's and sustain while you look for your "real job." Where's the incentive for some people when you can get paid for doing nothing for almost 2 years? We need to stop spending, or nothing else matters.
I didn't take it personal, I just stated that I like those types of statements.
I don't feel that Obama got dealt a tougher hand; though, the big difference between the two is the two wars. These two wars have a significant impact on domestic policies, considerably job growth and the rising deficit. And, the larger role that we have in the Middle East does not help things at all.
I also disagree that Obama has had plenty of time. 2 years and 3 months is not plenty of time to right the (sinking) aircraft carrier.
While I disagree that taxes on the rich are a bad thing; however, I do feel the lower limit for the highest tax bracket should be increased from 250K to 500K or 700K. I think a restructuring is needed, since Tax reform has not been implemented on a large scale since 1986.
I do agree with your stance on unemployment benefits, welfare, and medicaid. However, id o support these programs and will gladly contribute to them, but I want them regulated; I want drug tests for those who are collecting these benefits and I want a timeline-3,4,6 months?-that people can collect. I also believe in putting people who are collecting to work: cleaning up the streets, parks, and highways, or doing anything else that gets them off the couch while providing a service to society.
It is not always the "bum in the ghetto" or the "white trash in the trailer" that collects these benefits. Look at the banking/financial disaster: many good, hardworking people lost their jobs because of the negligence and utterly repulsive acts of the few.
And yes, there are jobs out there--like Poisonland, I mean, McDonalds, where people can work. They choose not to. My simple plan: make them attend a meeting with a benefits counselor. This benefits counselor will hand them a list of job openings and then followup with employers to make sure they interviewed. If they "fuck up" then they lose the benefits. Simple, at least for a start.
And let's not forget Corporate America's role in all of this. The bottom line is they DO NOT CARE about Americans. We are workers and consumers to them, and they have fucked us pretty badly by sending jobs overseas. There is more to this than who is in the White House. Obama has proposed lowering Corp. tax rates. I do not think this will help though, as all these CEOs care about is profit and lining their wallets. There are the enemy. Also, my best friend is a commodities trader, and likely the best one on Wall St., and he has informed me that the banking and financial industry is doing exactly what they did at the end of Bush's 2nd term. We may be in for a big windfall. And, before you question his credentials, he is a millionaire at 32--he is doing something right.
I do agree with whygo that the solution is not so simple.
However, I disagreed with the fact that the current economy is worse than what was handed off in 1980.
I never said anyone here called Obama or Jimmy Carter smart. That's the general thought while poor old Bush and Reagan didn't have a brain cell. So, I'm not sure why you took that so personal.
And yes, books are good. But, the only real reference to that was again, the fact that Obama somehow got dealt a tougher hand than Reagan (or anyone else for that matter).
He's had plenty of time. Unemployment is still up at 9% and that doesn't even include those that have given up. I want him to turn it around. I hope he turns it around. The fact is, he still has time. And I actually think over the next 12 months, you'll see him turn toward more conservative ideals in this regard. Partially b/c he has to with the House owned by the right. But, partially because, that's how the economy gets fixed. Liberal hand outs are a disaster and what has gotten us in this in the first place. That's why I've stated that what happened Sunday has no impact on the election. It is what he can do in the next 18 months to get the economy back on its feet.
One thing that WILL NOT work is increasing (or even sustaining) the current hand outs and taxing the "rich." 99 weeks of unemployment. That's absolutely ridiculous. Get a job at McDonald's and sustain while you look for your "real job." Where's the incentive for some people when you can get paid for doing nothing for almost 2 years? We need to stop spending, or nothing else matters.
It's absolutely worse than it was in 1980. "Liberal hand outs" have gotten us in this situation? How do you figure,and what is included in "liberal hand outs"?
Whygo - spot on. I agree with most of what you said. Though I did have to chuckle a bit at the start. Reagan had the little thing of the hostages to deal with. Now, true enough they were basically released upon his election, but then again isn't that the point? If Carter was reelected would that have happened? So just his presence made things almost instantly better. Folks really don't seem to remember how depressed the country was at the end of the Carter administration both financially and psychologically.
But that's really an aside. The rest was really well done.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
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Last night has zero impact on his re-election.
A little history lesson:
The February of his 2nd term election, Bush I had THE highest approval rating of any President since that sort of thing was tracked (and since, as a matter of fact. It was something like 93% which is pretty f'n impossible if you think about it). The economy went in the shitter and he lost just 9 months later to the Governor of the 48th ranked financial State (and declining) in the Union.
So, while kudos to Obama for giving the order. Anyone who thinks this effects next election is kidding themselves. We don't have a long enough memory as a society for something like this.
(Not saying he will win or lose. Just saying this impacts nothing with regard to the election.)
No offense...but nobody has ever delivered a man that symbolized evil like this since Hitler. Before you say it...Sadaam wasn't directly blamed for 9/11...so killing him didn't boost Bush Jr. Even the righties are giving Obama his due. He just keeps putting checks next to his list of Presidential promises.
2012 is a done deal as of today! He would have to fuck this up to lose now.
Why would I take offense? History shows I'm correct. Bush I executed Desert Storm in 5 days. Again, his approval rating was 93%! Wrap your mind around that. I'd be shocked if Obama is anywhere close to that even right now. His issues had nothing to do with Osama. It was a ton of other things that this does not solve. Not saying he doesn't deserve credit here. Just saying an election 18 months from now will make this nothing more than a footnote. It certainly doesn't hurt. But in and of itself wins him nothing in the long term (ie more than a month). If the economy does not turn around, he's doomed, plain and simple.
Bet ya a dollar Obama wins. Seriously. Payable through paypal.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
campaign 2012
gop ad..."obama is not american. he is a muslim. he single handedly destroyed the country."
obama ad..." yeah call me soft on national security...i got bin laden....."
i would say that obama's definitely got an advantage. and you will see the patriotism ratcheted up come late 2011....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Those will be lower a year from now, semi-colon;
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Or lower, happily
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
People aren't saying generation z, are they? Using y already lacked enough creativity. Good thing it's at the bottom of the alphabet.
Each generation's attention span gets shorter and shorter. I think I'm X and mine is 0, so I'm presuming Y is -10 and z is -1000, which will make row AA -1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or, the size of our National Debt by the time they are born if the size of the deficit continues to grow at the pace it has these last 2 years.
Are you going to vote for Huckabee or Romney instead?
I feel your pain, but what did everyone expect in 2.5 years? I really do find our culture of instant gratification ridiculous. Not only did the President---and the same would be said if McCain won---have to stabilize the country after the worst economic crisis since the Great Depressions, but now he has to turn it around so it starts to grow again. The economy is growing, but obviously too slowly for the ultimate culture of instant gratification! But, it is growing. However, we have to look at the roadblocks:
1. infrastructure plans, tunnels, high speed rail, highways, bridges, are all being rejected by, mostly Rep., governors. This would help unemployment. Simple.
2. Corporate America is STILL sending jobs overseas. if we want this to stop, then we make a concerted effort to Buy American. We have embraced this free-market system, and now we are paying the price for it. We have also become slaves to the Corporate Oligarchy, and we sleepwalk through their complete dominion over us. We run to the big-box stores without even once thinking about how it is destroying the nation. 70% OF THE GARBAGE I WAL-MART IS MADE IN CHINA, YOU FOOLS!!
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=147271
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 61606.html
3. Who is the road block to creating jobs? Trickle down economics does not work. I have read numerous books and articles on Reaganomics and Economics in the post-industrial age: this is what I do for fun. The consensus I have reached--from experts--is that the policy only favored the rich, and ultimately did not achieve all it set out to, or all it promised to. I know this may be hard to believe for all the sheep who cling to the Reagan Myth. Wake up and read a book, people, you DO NOT know everything.
4. if there ever was a President who wanted to help the lower-class and the middle-class, it is Obama (and, of course, Clinton). This is common, intelligent knowledge, but this is also America. Knowledge is out of the grasp of many. Read up on his policies, read up on how he is getting stonewalled at every pass.
That's it for now. Everyone please feel free to add to this list.
But, I do have to ask: How the f___ could anyone think that a Republican President would change this? Or an Independent?
I really wish everyone would just shut up. I'll start the trend. The United States is a pet store with a surplus of parrots and parakeets who won't shut up with their blabbering nonsense.
P.S. I tried to type as fast as I could. I know we--American Society--want immediate results, and Obama should have waived his magic wand to fix everything in 2 years. Shame on him. And, this is NOT a defense of Obama; this is a defense of the hope--diminishing--that I have for the return of intelligent discourse in this country. Sadly, it won't happen.
p.s. and for the record, I liked Bill Clinton. Things are much much different now than they were then.
I'm guessing whygohome did not live through the late 70's. We have not quite gotten to the tremendous stagflation that the last "genius" President got us into. Obama, the current "too smart for everyone else" President it trying. Double digit interest rates with ridiculous inflation plus (relatively) high gas prices.
Reagan took 18 months to right that. So, enough with the Reaganomics didn't work, and that Obama has had it tougher than anyone else. Live it instead of reading about it. Reagonomics got bastardized through 2 Presidencies (Clinton and yes, Bush II who should have held his conservative beliefs instead of caving to the bleeding hearts). The critical component which Rudy Giuliani succesfully implemented in NYC (which is now being erroded by the current schmuck) is the reduction of Welfare rolls. Teach how to fish. Don't give the fish.
Reagan reduced unemployment to levels nobody ever thought possible. Just because the lower class didn't come up to meet the middle class does not mean it is still not the best idea. Giving them fish won't make them Middle Class either. Everyone should stop worrying about what the other guy's got and achieve as much as possible to make their lives as good as possible with the DNA they've been given. And then we can help the people that TRULY need help. It's Evolution, Baby!
No, I did not...born in 1979, but I have spoken with many who did, including family and colleagues. When did I mention Carter? I feel that you missed the point of my post entirely and I find your generalized comments--directed at me--a bit foolish. "Live it instead of reading it." I have always said that experience is the greatest teacher, but it seems to me that in your opinion historical research has no place in an intelligent discussion. I guess the only view is the one seen in the present (or the one we want to see). How does one gain knowledge without reading and talking to those who have experience?
"We have not quite gotten to the tremendous stagflation that the last "genius" President got us into. Obama, the current "too smart for everyone else" President [is] trying." I love these types of quotes: "genius," "too smart for everyone." I don't recall anywhere saying that I want to hand out fish. I don't believe in hand outs, or spreading the wealth, but I do believe in spreading the opportunity. Under Reagan "the haves" continued to prosper, while "the have nots" continued to remain stagnant. As does the quality of life.
Now, we can go ahead and blame Welfare and other entitlements--programs that I support, but want strict regulation of, and programs that need reform--or we can look at the simple fact that the wealth is continually concentrated in the hands of the few, while working wages have remained stagnant (with respect to increases in cost of living). I don't attribute this all to hard work: let's not forget about nepotism, trust fund babies, and the simple idea that the system is set up to benefit those who have had a nice head start in life. I know too many people who have had everything in their lives handed to them by mommy and daddy (W. Bush) without accomplishing anything on their own. The sad part is that they are too narrow-minded to realize it.
And, it took Reagan far longer than 18 months. Unemployment rose under Reagan. Obviously, this was the backlash from Carter's presidency. It is important to note though, that it TOOK TIME. I agree that the economy improved under Reagan, but we need to look beyond simple facts: improved for whom? Who really benefited? Were there any banking/finance issues that arose? Also, why did it "sputter" in the early 1990s? Did the plan simply not have long-term strength? Or, was it because those who benefited were the few? And, the 1980s and the 2010s are very different. We do not know, I repeat, we do not know, what type of plan it will take to bring unemployment down to 5 or 6 percent. We can pretend we know to soothe our egos, but in the end we must embrace the fact that, like Socrates, we know nothing. We do know though, that those that always suffer most during difficult times are the lower class, and now, the middle class. Something needs to be done to change this.
Again, I simply think you missed the main point of my post, or, you simply wanted to focus on a few statements made. Either way.................
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
http://www.presidentreagan.info/unemployment.cfm
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contenti ... &subid=305
http://www.presimetrics.com/blog/?p=325
Good posts and response by whygohome. I was born in 1970. Edson needs to read a book, because experience isn't everything when you view things through conservative lenses.
However, I disagreed with the fact that the current economy is worse than what was handed off in 1980.
I never said anyone here called Obama or Jimmy Carter smart. That's the general thought while poor old Bush and Reagan didn't have a brain cell. So, I'm not sure why you took that so personal.
And yes, books are good. But, the only real reference to that was again, the fact that Obama somehow got dealt a tougher hand than Reagan (or anyone else for that matter).
He's had plenty of time. Unemployment is still up at 9% and that doesn't even include those that have given up. I want him to turn it around. I hope he turns it around. The fact is, he still has time. And I actually think over the next 12 months, you'll see him turn toward more conservative ideals in this regard. Partially b/c he has to with the House owned by the right. But, partially because, that's how the economy gets fixed. Liberal hand outs are a disaster and what has gotten us in this in the first place. That's why I've stated that what happened Sunday has no impact on the election. It is what he can do in the next 18 months to get the economy back on its feet.
One thing that WILL NOT work is increasing (or even sustaining) the current hand outs and taxing the "rich." 99 weeks of unemployment. That's absolutely ridiculous. Get a job at McDonald's and sustain while you look for your "real job." Where's the incentive for some people when you can get paid for doing nothing for almost 2 years? We need to stop spending, or nothing else matters.
I didn't take it personal, I just stated that I like those types of statements.
I don't feel that Obama got dealt a tougher hand; though, the big difference between the two is the two wars. These two wars have a significant impact on domestic policies, considerably job growth and the rising deficit. And, the larger role that we have in the Middle East does not help things at all.
I also disagree that Obama has had plenty of time. 2 years and 3 months is not plenty of time to right the (sinking) aircraft carrier.
While I disagree that taxes on the rich are a bad thing; however, I do feel the lower limit for the highest tax bracket should be increased from 250K to 500K or 700K. I think a restructuring is needed, since Tax reform has not been implemented on a large scale since 1986.
I do agree with your stance on unemployment benefits, welfare, and medicaid. However, id o support these programs and will gladly contribute to them, but I want them regulated; I want drug tests for those who are collecting these benefits and I want a timeline-3,4,6 months?-that people can collect. I also believe in putting people who are collecting to work: cleaning up the streets, parks, and highways, or doing anything else that gets them off the couch while providing a service to society.
It is not always the "bum in the ghetto" or the "white trash in the trailer" that collects these benefits. Look at the banking/financial disaster: many good, hardworking people lost their jobs because of the negligence and utterly repulsive acts of the few.
And yes, there are jobs out there--like Poisonland, I mean, McDonalds, where people can work. They choose not to. My simple plan: make them attend a meeting with a benefits counselor. This benefits counselor will hand them a list of job openings and then followup with employers to make sure they interviewed. If they "fuck up" then they lose the benefits. Simple, at least for a start.
And let's not forget Corporate America's role in all of this. The bottom line is they DO NOT CARE about Americans. We are workers and consumers to them, and they have fucked us pretty badly by sending jobs overseas. There is more to this than who is in the White House. Obama has proposed lowering Corp. tax rates. I do not think this will help though, as all these CEOs care about is profit and lining their wallets. There are the enemy. Also, my best friend is a commodities trader, and likely the best one on Wall St., and he has informed me that the banking and financial industry is doing exactly what they did at the end of Bush's 2nd term. We may be in for a big windfall. And, before you question his credentials, he is a millionaire at 32--he is doing something right.
There is more to this than policy.
It's absolutely worse than it was in 1980. "Liberal hand outs" have gotten us in this situation? How do you figure,and what is included in "liberal hand outs"?
But that's really an aside. The rest was really well done.