The UN or USA do not go after children. I am sure that is not there goal.
I would not put it past these insurgents to put children in the line of fire just for the press coverage.
Personally, if there were a war going on I would not send my children out to collect wood or for any other reason. If they left the house, I would be with them.
If the insurgents are not setting these kids up, there is some bad parenting going on.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
30+Civilians killed this Weekend,
----
Jason Ditz, May 29, 2011
NATO air strikes have killed at least 52 Afghans over the past 24 hours, including 32 civilians and 20 members of the police. The deaths came in two strikes, one in the Helmand Province and another in Nuristan.
The Helmand strike, late Saturday, saw NATO attack helicopters destroy a pair of homes, killing 2 women and 12 children. The strikes also wounded six other civilians. Helmand’s governor’s office said the attack came after a nearby US Marine base was struck by insurgents.
The other strike came on Sunday, in the Nuristan Province. Here, US warplanes responded to reports of a battle between insurgents and security forces by opening fire on a group of people they assumed were insurgents. The people turned out to be a group of 18 civilians and 20 police.
-- http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/ ... 6065104496
The BBC's Quentin Sommerville said villagers brought their dead children to the governor's office shouting: "See they aren't Taliban"
A Nato air strike has killed 14 people, all civilians, in south-west Afghanistan's Helmand province, local officials say.
Maj. Gen. John Toolan, the head of the International Security Assistance Force's command in southwest Afghanistan, said his apology was being made "on behalf of the coalition" and its top leaders, including U.S. Army Gen. David Petraeus. He pleaded with Afghans to not only forgive, but also to work with coalition forces in hopes of bolstering their security.
"I offer our heartfelt apologies to the families and friends of those killed," Toolan said in a statement. "I ask that the Afghan people continue to trust and assist their security forces, so that together we can stop the senseless killing brought upon us by an enemy who wants to exploit the Afghan people through fear and violence."
30+Civilians killed this Weekend,
----
Jason Ditz, May 29, 2011
NATO air strikes have killed at least 52 Afghans over the past 24 hours, including 32 civilians and 20 members of the police. The deaths came in two strikes, one in the Helmand Province and another in Nuristan.
The Helmand strike, late Saturday, saw NATO attack helicopters destroy a pair of homes, killing 2 women and 12 children. The strikes also wounded six other civilians. Helmand’s governor’s office said the attack came after a nearby US Marine base was struck by insurgents.
The other strike came on Sunday, in the Nuristan Province. Here, US warplanes responded to reports of a battle between insurgents and security forces by opening fire on a group of people they assumed were insurgents. The people turned out to be a group of 18 civilians and 20 police.--
The BBC's Quentin Sommerville said villagers brought their dead children to the governor's office shouting: "See they aren't Taliban"A Nato air strike has killed 14 people, all civilians, in south-west Afghanistan's Helmand province, local officials say.
Maj. Gen. John Toolan, the head of the International Security Assistance Force's command in southwest Afghanistan, said his apology was being made "on behalf of the coalition" and its top leaders, including U.S. Army Gen. David Petraeus. He pleaded with Afghans to not only forgive, but also to work with coalition forces in hopes of bolstering their security.
"I offer our heartfelt apologies to the families and friends of those killed," Toolan said in a statement. "I ask that the Afghan people continue to trust and assist their security forces, so that together we can stop the senseless killing brought upon us by an enemy who wants to exploit the Afghan people through fear and violence."
their incompetence is something out of the movie team america. only this is not comical, it is pathetically sad...
:twisted: :twisted:
The absolute sheer lack of Respect for human life, the arrogance of valuing ones life higher than that of another, based simply on geographical and/or cultural differences.
The wildly ignorant notion that 'different' means less value. Even the worst terrorist groups have a better grasp of human life than these western powers. As the worst terrorist groups target innocents knowing the value of killing them, knowing the pain it will cause, and NATO? The ignorance of not understanding the worth of every single life. Thus it takes daily, spilling the blood of countless innocent lives. Only causing and continuing the bloodied cycle...Not knowing, or caring about the countless mothers, fathers, sons and daughters torn apart by bombs and bullets, NATO&Co find themselves in a delusional trance like state believing with such certainty, with such devout sincerity that they are right. That they are fighting for some sort of freedom, not seeing the hypocrisy in the wars. Or, maybe they do see the hypocrisy, just so overwhelmed with greed and power that they have surely lost touch with their human side. Nothing but animals now.
No, not even animals kill like this. Animals respect the laws of nature, what we are doing in Afghanistan,Iraq, our occupations, our support for corrupt regimes, this is nothing but transgressing the bounds of natural law.
168 Children Murdered By US Drones
John Glaser, August 11, 2011
“for every 10 to 15 people killed, maybe they get one militant.”
The Bureau of Investigative Journalism (TBIJ) last month began to publish their findings in a study of the U.S. drone war in Pakistan. The study found that much higher rates of civilian casualties had resulted from the U.S. drone war than had been admitted by the government or than had been reported in the press.
Now a detailed study by the London-based Bureau of Investigative Journalism (TBIJ) has been published containing new figures on civilian casualties.
Its findings suggest the number of ordinary people killed could be 40 per cent higher than previously reported.
Commenting on the findings, Unicef said: "Even one child death from drone missiles or suicide bombings is one child death too many.
"Children have no place in war, and all parties should do their utmost to protect children from violent attacks at all times."
Chris Woods, who led the study, said: "The CIA's insistence that it is not killing civilians in Pakistan is at odds with the reported evidence."
The source explained: "Our information is by far the most accurate because we have real-time eyes on the targets, as well as multiple other forms of collection to assess who may have been killed. Nobody is arguing perfection over the life of the policy, but this [the use of drones] remains the most precise system we've ever had in our arsenal."
---
Personally, if there were a war going on I would not send my children out to collect wood or for any other reason. If they left the house, I would be with them.
You would be with them? You able to stop drone bombs with your hands? Seriously What difference does it make at the end? They are dead children.
aerial, these bombs land of homes, villages, they carpet bomb vast areas, cluster bombs.
This entire war needs to end, what's going on in Afghanistan/Iraq is nothing less than a brutal American occupation. It is quite clear, no justification at all for these actions.
Like you, aerial we all probably want a peaceful world, but this is not the way to get to where we want to be. Is it? Really? whaaat, I hope not!
If you see something I don't..Then you got to share it, please. Tell me what's going on, what do you worry about? What's the good word?..
Where do we go from here? Forward I hope, one direction, into reality, no other way, no other place.
Warning...Graphic images of Civilian deaths as a result of NATO strikes in july 2011
you can google the sources on these pics and they all date to july 2011...
there are many many more but the images were much too large to post in the image size restrictions or i could not verify the date that they were published. these were on articles published on that date in july 2011....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Adam Winfield, the Army specialist who warned his parents that soldiers in his unit were executing innocent Afghan civilians, pled guilty Friday to reduced charges and was sentenced to three years in prison for his role in one of the murders.
Winfield, 23, of Cape Coral, Fla., had been charged with premeditated murder, which carried a sentence of life in prison without parole.
Winfield agreed to a plea deal with military prosecutors at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state, and is expected to testify against Sgt. Calvin Gibbs, who is charged with planning and executing three Afghan civilians between January and May 2010.
At Friday's hearing, Winfield told the court he has failed to stop Gibbs and another soldier, Cpl. Jeremy Morlock, from killing a detained Afghan.
"It is my duty as an American soldier ... to protect any detainee ... that is in the custody of U.S. personnel," Winfield said. "It was my job to do that, sir, and I failed to do it."
Prosecutors allege that the Ft. Lewis-based Stryker brigade set up scenarios to kill unarmed Afghans, and then planted weapons to make the killings appear justified. Winfield had been charged with premeditated murder, but said he never fired his weapon at the victim. In his plea agreement, prosecutors accepted his defense.
Winfield is one of five Lewis-McChord soldiers accused in the three killings, and the second to accept a plea deal. Morlock pled to three counts of premeditated murder in March and was sentenced to 24 years in prison. In 2010, ABC News published video of Morlock describing the "kill team"'s alleged actions. This spring photos of the men posing with corpses surfaced in the media.
Prosecutors allege that Winfield, Gibbs, Morlock, Spc. Michael S. Wagnon II, and Pfc. Andrew H. Holmes participated in one or more of the murders and staged them to make unarmed Afghans appear to be armed insurgents.
Winfield was the first to come forward about the alleged sport killings. He told his parents while deployed that members of his unit had planned and executed the killings for sport. He was charged with murder for his part in the third and final death in May of last year.
In a confession taped last year and obtained by ABC News, Morlock, of Wasilla, Alaska, admitted the team's role in the murders of three unarmed civilians, but told Army investigators that his unit's "crazy" sergeant had hatched the plan.
Morlock, described how Gibbs had the men in his unit pick out civilians at random and then kill them with grenades and rifle fire.
"Gibbs called it like, 'Hey you guys wanna, you guys wanna wax this guy or what?' And you know, he set it up, like, he grabbed the dude."
Morlock said that killing people came "too easy" to Gibbs. "He just really doesn't have any problems with f---ing killing these, these people, to be honest."
Personally, if there were a war going on I would not send my children out to collect wood or for any other reason. If they left the house, I would be with them.
You would be with them? You able to stop drone bombs with your hands? Seriously What difference does it make at the end? They are dead children.
aerial, these bombs land of homes, villages, they carpet bomb vast areas, cluster bombs.
This entire war needs to end, what's going on in Afghanistan/Iraq is nothing less than a brutal American occupation. It is quite clear, no justification at all for these actions.
Like you, aerial we all probably want a peaceful world, but this is not the way to get to where we want to be. Is it? Really? whaaat, I hope not!
If you see something I don't..Then you got to share it, please. Tell me what's going on, what do you worry about? What's the good word?..
Where do we go from here? Forward I hope, one direction, into reality, no other way, no other place.
U.S. Special Operations Forces have been increasingly aiming their nighttime raids, which have been the primary cause of Afghan anger at the U.S. military presence, at civilian noncombatants in order to exploit their possible intelligence value, according to a new study published by the Open Society Foundation and the Liaison Office.
The study provides new evidence of the degree to which the criteria used for targeting individuals in night raids and for seizing them during raids have been loosened to include people who have not been identified as insurgents.
Based on interviews with current and former U.S. military officials with knowledge of the strategic thinking behind the raids, as well as Afghans who have been caught up in the raids, the authors of the study write that large numbers of civilians are being detained for brief periods of time merely to find out what they know about local insurgents —
The idea of using military operations to round up civilians to exploit their presumed knowledge of the insurgency has a long history in the U.S.-NATO war in Afghanistan.
Most of those civilians targeted or swept up in night raids are released within a few days, according to the report. That assessment is consistent with the revelation, reported by IPS in September 2010, that roughly 90 percent of the individuals who were said by ISAF in August 2010 to have been “captured insurgents” were in fact released either within two weeks of initial detention or within a few months after being sent to Parwan detention facility.
The authors of the report conclude that deliberately targeting and rounding up civilians who are not suspected of being insurgents merely to exploit possible intelligence value “may constitute an arbitrary deprivation of liberty” and thus “inhumane treatment” in violation of Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.
A website called antiwar.com has published an anti-NATO report??? shocking.
I don't mind if the U.S. gets called out from time to time for shocking behavior, but for Christ's sake, how come I never see articles about what the Taliban does? Are they handing out candy-canes and organizing hay rides? Or are they strapping nail bombs to themselves and running into crowded marketplaces? How can you just focus on the U.S. only?????
A group of religious zealots takes over a country and forms a non-recognized government, forces everyone to obey a very, very strict religious code (with or without their consent) and harbored terrorists that plotted an attack that resulted the fucked-up world we now reside in.
I don't understand how LIBERAL people would rather stand behind a movement that is counter-productive to just about every other ideal they may stand for, then a country fighting a war so politically correct, its hands are tied to the point that little progress can be made.
A website called antiwar.com has published an anti-NATO report??? shocking.
I don't mind if the U.S. gets called out from time to time for shocking behavior, but for Christ's sake, how come I never see articles about what the Taliban does? Are they handing out candy-canes and organizing hay rides? Or are they strapping nail bombs to themselves and running into crowded marketplaces? How can you just focus on the U.S. only?????
A group of religious zealots takes over a country and forms a non-recognized government, forces everyone to obey a very, very strict religious code (with or without their consent) and harbored terrorists that plotted an attack that resulted the fucked-up world we now reside in.
I don't understand how LIBERAL people would rather stand behind a movement that is counter-productive to just about every other ideal they may stand for, then a country fighting a war so politically correct, its hands are tied to the point that little progress can be made.
The facts are the facts, makes little difference where they are reported from in this case (can they be verified? 'Yes'). You make it seem like some of these stories and reports are made up fairly tales, believe me. It would be great if the reports on dead children and innocents are false. But they are not false, they are true.
You go on about the Taliban, US government officials were meeting with the Taliban before 9/11 (late 90's?). Yes, the United States was willing to do business with them before 9/11. But that's what the US does, it does Business with 'bad' people, the killers, the liars, the hypocrites, those are the kinds of partners the US had/has.
The Taliban grew after the US left Afghanistan in the dumps when they beat back the Soviets (with the help of the Americans). That allowed the Taliban to form.
Anyway, focus tends to mostly be on the US because, well...The US is the Empire of the day, whatever years ago, we would be talking about the Roman Empire, or the British Empire. But Now, in this day, in this time, it's the US Empire that is the head of the Snake of Imperialism.
-Obama Denies ‘Huge Number of Civilian Casualties’ in Drone War
It was the first time the President publicly acknowledged the classified program
by John Glaser, January 30, 2012
“I want to make sure people understand actually drones have not caused a huge number of civilian casualties,” President Obama said in an hour long interview hosted by Google. “For the most part, they’ve been very precise, precision strikes against against al-Qaeda and their affiliates.”
The claim mirrors previous attempts to downplay the civilian casualties of the drone war. John Brennan, President Obama’s counter-terrorism advisor, told the public back in June that zero civilian casualties have occurred as a result of U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan.
----
US drone strikes in Pakistan have killed more civilians than previously reported, including 168 children, according to figures compiled by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.
-Obama Denies ‘Huge Number of Civilian Casualties’ in Drone War
It was the first time the President publicly acknowledged the classified program
by John Glaser, January 30, 2012
“I want to make sure people understand actually drones have not caused a huge number of civilian casualties,” President Obama said in an hour long interview hosted by Google. “For the most part, they’ve been very precise, precision strikes against against al-Qaeda and their affiliates.”
The claim mirrors previous attempts to downplay the civilian casualties of the drone war. John Brennan, President Obama’s counter-terrorism advisor, told the public back in June that zero civilian casualties have occurred as a result of U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan.
----
US drone strikes in Pakistan have killed more civilians than previously reported, including 168 children, according to figures compiled by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.
Personally, if there were a war going on I would not send my children out to collect wood or for any other reason. If they left the house, I would be with them.
What makes you think they need to leave the house to get killed?
The Helmand strike, late Saturday, saw NATO attack helicopters destroy a pair of homes, killing 2 women and 12 children. The strikes also wounded six other civilians.
• UN report says 3,021 civilians killed in 2011
• 8% increase on 2010 and fifth consecutive rise
• Number of suicide bombings static but toll rises 80%
Damien Pearse and agencies
guardian.co.uk, Saturday 4 February 2012
The civilian death toll for the war in Afghanistan reached a record high last year with 3,021 deaths, according to the United Nations.
The number killed rose by 8% last year – the fifth consecutive rise – with a further 4,507 civilians wounded, the UN report said. Many were killed by roadside bombs or in suicide attacks, with Taliban-affiliated militants responsible for three-quarters of the deaths.
The number of deaths caused by suicide bombings jumped to 450, an 80% increase over the previous year, even though the number of suicide attacks remained about the same.
"A decade after the war began, the human cost of it is still rising," said Georgette Gagnon, director for human rights for the UN mission in Afghanistan.
The single deadliest suicide attack since 2008 occurred on 6 December, when a bomber detonated his explosives-filled vest at the entrance of a mosque in Kabul, killing 56 worshippers during the Shia Muslim rituals of Ashoura.
Roadside bombs remain the biggest killer of civilians. The homemade explosives – which can be triggered by a footstep or a vehicle and are often rigged with enough explosives to destroy a tank – killed 967 people in 2011, nearly a third of the total.
The figures come as Nato begins to map out plans for international troops to withdraw and hand over responsibility for security to Afghan security forces.
The presence of western forces has managed to reduce civilian casualties in the troubled southern provinces of Helmand and Kandahar. But the UN found that insurgents had focused instead on areas along the country's border with Pakistan. They were also relying more on roadside bombs and suicide attacks in places like bazaars, school grounds, footpaths and bus stations.
"The tactics have changed," said Jan Kubis, the UN secretary general's special representative to Afghanistan. "The anti-government forces being squeezed in certain areas ... move to some other areas and again use these inhuman, undiscriminating weapons like human-activated explosive devices and suicide attacks."
Kubis said the Taliban banned the use of land mines as "un-Islamic and anti-human" in 1998 when they ruled Afghanistan with their harsh interpretation of Islamic law. But the UN report said there was little difference between mines and the buried homemade bombs used by the Taliban. The majority of improvised devices have about 20kg (44lb) of explosives and are triggered when a person steps on, or a vehicle drives over rigged pressure plates.
"These are basically land mines," Kubis said of the roadside bombs. "So why is this 'inhuman and un-Islamic' weapon being increasingly used?"
The number of roadside bombs planted last year overwhelmed security forces' improved ability to detect and defuse them. An average of 23 roadside bombs a day were either detonated or discovered and defused last year, twice the daily average in 2010, the report said. Actual explosions increased by 6%.
The UN attributed 77% of the deaths to insurgent attacks and 14% to actions by international and Afghan troops. The cause of the remaining 9% were classified as unknown.
Honestly, I just don't get most of the people on the train. On the one side you've got folks who support the illegal occupation of states by the United States and other international hawks. On the other side are individuals who defend any action by the local regimes of the middle east no matter how barbaric they may seem. As far as I'm concerned, the Taliban is a terrifying terrorist entity that deserves no empathy. Then again, the United States is an invading nation that shows little or no regard for the peoples of these territories. Both groups openly engage in war crimes with no concern for the lives they take.
I'm always unsettled by the extremism on these boards. It's very difficult to post anything here without being ignored or insulted. There's just no room for a middle ground.
The problem is, most things on the train end up being a battle between highly antagonistic posters who do nothing more than bait each other into name calling and whining about posting violations.
Still, if you want an example, how about one of your earlier posts in this thread?
The wildly ignorant notion that 'different' means less value. Even the worst terrorist groups have a better grasp of human life than these western powers. As the worst terrorist groups target innocents knowing the value of killing them, knowing the pain it will cause, and NATO? The ignorance of not understanding the worth of every single life.
I'm sorry, but that's a pretty bold and pretty antagonistic statement. I don't really want to pursue this issue further as I find the discussions to be incredibly hostile. You (and others) openly condemn the US, but you deliberately downplay the heinous acts of other groups in order to exaggerate your points.
Let me be clear; I'm 100% opposed to western powers involving themselves in foreign conflicts. The US, Canada and any other foreign power has no business in the area. Having said that, I find downplaying or outright ignoring the human rights violations in the regime to be just as unsettling.
The wildly ignorant notion that 'different' means less value. Even the worst terrorist groups have a better grasp of human life than these western powers. As the worst terrorist groups target innocents knowing the value of killing them, knowing the pain it will cause, and NATO? The ignorance of not understanding the worth of every single life.
I'm sorry, but that's a pretty bold and pretty antagonistic statement. You (and others) openly condemn the US, but you deliberately downplay the heinous acts of other groups in order to exaggerate your points.
That's just untrue. In fact it's disgusting saying that I or anyone else here "downplays the heinous acts of other groups in order to exaggerate your points", without even providing an example of that.
and that post of mine you quoted, Read it in context. It's by and large very true. Terrorist terrorize innocent people and understand how much pain killing civilians causes. That's why they do it.
As far as NATO goes, if they wanted to end terror (so to speak), they would not be causing terror, and understand that their actions are creating it. and every one terrorist they kill, they create 100 more because they are seemingly ignorant of the cost of human life. when the life is not one of their own.
Also, in reality. How many Suicide bombings were happening in Afghanistan before the US invasion? Does that mean the Taliban were good? Of course not, who ever said that? Certainly not me and not anyone I know.
Yea the Taliban were bad before 9/11, so bad that the US was meeting with them in Washington etc and were more than willing to do business with them. Then 9/11 happens and it's full out attack on them.
Comments
I would not put it past these insurgents to put children in the line of fire just for the press coverage.
Personally, if there were a war going on I would not send my children out to collect wood or for any other reason. If they left the house, I would be with them.
If the insurgents are not setting these kids up, there is some bad parenting going on.
----
Jason Ditz, May 29, 2011
NATO air strikes have killed at least 52 Afghans over the past 24 hours, including 32 civilians and 20 members of the police. The deaths came in two strikes, one in the Helmand Province and another in Nuristan.
The Helmand strike, late Saturday, saw NATO attack helicopters destroy a pair of homes, killing 2 women and 12 children. The strikes also wounded six other civilians. Helmand’s governor’s office said the attack came after a nearby US Marine base was struck by insurgents.
The other strike came on Sunday, in the Nuristan Province. Here, US warplanes responded to reports of a battle between insurgents and security forces by opening fire on a group of people they assumed were insurgents. The people turned out to be a group of 18 civilians and 20 police.
--
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/ ... 6065104496
The BBC's Quentin Sommerville said villagers brought their dead children to the governor's office shouting: "See they aren't Taliban"
A Nato air strike has killed 14 people, all civilians, in south-west Afghanistan's Helmand province, local officials say.
Maj. Gen. John Toolan, the head of the International Security Assistance Force's command in southwest Afghanistan, said his apology was being made "on behalf of the coalition" and its top leaders, including U.S. Army Gen. David Petraeus. He pleaded with Afghans to not only forgive, but also to work with coalition forces in hopes of bolstering their security.
"I offer our heartfelt apologies to the families and friends of those killed," Toolan said in a statement. "I ask that the Afghan people continue to trust and assist their security forces, so that together we can stop the senseless killing brought upon us by an enemy who wants to exploit the Afghan people through fear and violence."
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... cnn_latest
their incompetence is something out of the movie team america. only this is not comical, it is pathetically sad...
:twisted: :twisted:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
The absolute sheer lack of Respect for human life, the arrogance of valuing ones life higher than that of another, based simply on geographical and/or cultural differences.
The wildly ignorant notion that 'different' means less value. Even the worst terrorist groups have a better grasp of human life than these western powers. As the worst terrorist groups target innocents knowing the value of killing them, knowing the pain it will cause, and NATO? The ignorance of not understanding the worth of every single life. Thus it takes daily, spilling the blood of countless innocent lives. Only causing and continuing the bloodied cycle...Not knowing, or caring about the countless mothers, fathers, sons and daughters torn apart by bombs and bullets, NATO&Co find themselves in a delusional trance like state believing with such certainty, with such devout sincerity that they are right. That they are fighting for some sort of freedom, not seeing the hypocrisy in the wars. Or, maybe they do see the hypocrisy, just so overwhelmed with greed and power that they have surely lost touch with their human side. Nothing but animals now.
No, not even animals kill like this. Animals respect the laws of nature, what we are doing in Afghanistan,Iraq, our occupations, our support for corrupt regimes, this is nothing but transgressing the bounds of natural law.
John Glaser, August 11, 2011
“for every 10 to 15 people killed, maybe they get one militant.”
The Bureau of Investigative Journalism (TBIJ) last month began to publish their findings in a study of the U.S. drone war in Pakistan. The study found that much higher rates of civilian casualties had resulted from the U.S. drone war than had been admitted by the government or than had been reported in the press.
Now a detailed study by the London-based Bureau of Investigative Journalism (TBIJ) has been published containing new figures on civilian casualties.
Its findings suggest the number of ordinary people killed could be 40 per cent higher than previously reported.
Commenting on the findings, Unicef said: "Even one child death from drone missiles or suicide bombings is one child death too many.
"Children have no place in war, and all parties should do their utmost to protect children from violent attacks at all times."
Chris Woods, who led the study, said: "The CIA's insistence that it is not killing civilians in Pakistan is at odds with the reported evidence."
The source explained: "Our information is by far the most accurate because we have real-time eyes on the targets, as well as multiple other forms of collection to assess who may have been killed. Nobody is arguing perfection over the life of the policy, but this [the use of drones] remains the most precise system we've ever had in our arsenal."
---
america, fuck yeah....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
You would be with them? You able to stop drone bombs with your hands? Seriously What difference does it make at the end? They are dead children.
aerial, these bombs land of homes, villages, they carpet bomb vast areas, cluster bombs.
This entire war needs to end, what's going on in Afghanistan/Iraq is nothing less than a brutal American occupation. It is quite clear, no justification at all for these actions.
Like you, aerial we all probably want a peaceful world, but this is not the way to get to where we want to be. Is it? Really? whaaat, I hope not!
If you see something I don't..Then you got to share it, please. Tell me what's going on, what do you worry about? What's the good word?..
Where do we go from here? Forward I hope, one direction, into reality, no other way, no other place.
So what's up?
you can google the sources on these pics and they all date to july 2011...
there are many many more but the images were much too large to post in the image size restrictions or i could not verify the date that they were published. these were on articles published on that date in july 2011....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
our freedom bombs are there to liberate you........from this earthly plane.
Adam Winfield, the Army specialist who warned his parents that soldiers in his unit were executing innocent Afghan civilians, pled guilty Friday to reduced charges and was sentenced to three years in prison for his role in one of the murders.
Winfield, 23, of Cape Coral, Fla., had been charged with premeditated murder, which carried a sentence of life in prison without parole.
Winfield agreed to a plea deal with military prosecutors at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state, and is expected to testify against Sgt. Calvin Gibbs, who is charged with planning and executing three Afghan civilians between January and May 2010.
At Friday's hearing, Winfield told the court he has failed to stop Gibbs and another soldier, Cpl. Jeremy Morlock, from killing a detained Afghan.
"It is my duty as an American soldier ... to protect any detainee ... that is in the custody of U.S. personnel," Winfield said. "It was my job to do that, sir, and I failed to do it."
Prosecutors allege that the Ft. Lewis-based Stryker brigade set up scenarios to kill unarmed Afghans, and then planted weapons to make the killings appear justified. Winfield had been charged with premeditated murder, but said he never fired his weapon at the victim. In his plea agreement, prosecutors accepted his defense.
Winfield is one of five Lewis-McChord soldiers accused in the three killings, and the second to accept a plea deal. Morlock pled to three counts of premeditated murder in March and was sentenced to 24 years in prison. In 2010, ABC News published video of Morlock describing the "kill team"'s alleged actions. This spring photos of the men posing with corpses surfaced in the media.
Prosecutors allege that Winfield, Gibbs, Morlock, Spc. Michael S. Wagnon II, and Pfc. Andrew H. Holmes participated in one or more of the murders and staged them to make unarmed Afghans appear to be armed insurgents.
Winfield was the first to come forward about the alleged sport killings. He told his parents while deployed that members of his unit had planned and executed the killings for sport. He was charged with murder for his part in the third and final death in May of last year.
In a confession taped last year and obtained by ABC News, Morlock, of Wasilla, Alaska, admitted the team's role in the murders of three unarmed civilians, but told Army investigators that his unit's "crazy" sergeant had hatched the plan.
Morlock, described how Gibbs had the men in his unit pick out civilians at random and then kill them with grenades and rifle fire.
"Gibbs called it like, 'Hey you guys wanna, you guys wanna wax this guy or what?' And you know, he set it up, like, he grabbed the dude."
Morlock said that killing people came "too easy" to Gibbs. "He just really doesn't have any problems with f---ing killing these, these people, to be honest."
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/kill-team ... d=14239130
Just in case you missed the post,
if there is a heaven they wouldn't be invited....
U.S. Special Operations Forces have been increasingly aiming their nighttime raids, which have been the primary cause of Afghan anger at the U.S. military presence, at civilian noncombatants in order to exploit their possible intelligence value, according to a new study published by the Open Society Foundation and the Liaison Office.
The study provides new evidence of the degree to which the criteria used for targeting individuals in night raids and for seizing them during raids have been loosened to include people who have not been identified as insurgents.
Based on interviews with current and former U.S. military officials with knowledge of the strategic thinking behind the raids, as well as Afghans who have been caught up in the raids, the authors of the study write that large numbers of civilians are being detained for brief periods of time merely to find out what they know about local insurgents —
The idea of using military operations to round up civilians to exploit their presumed knowledge of the insurgency has a long history in the U.S.-NATO war in Afghanistan.
Most of those civilians targeted or swept up in night raids are released within a few days, according to the report. That assessment is consistent with the revelation, reported by IPS in September 2010, that roughly 90 percent of the individuals who were said by ISAF in August 2010 to have been “captured insurgents” were in fact released either within two weeks of initial detention or within a few months after being sent to Parwan detention facility.
The authors of the report conclude that deliberately targeting and rounding up civilians who are not suspected of being insurgents merely to exploit possible intelligence value “may constitute an arbitrary deprivation of liberty” and thus “inhumane treatment” in violation of Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.
http://original.antiwar.com/porter/2011 ... civilians/
I don't mind if the U.S. gets called out from time to time for shocking behavior, but for Christ's sake, how come I never see articles about what the Taliban does? Are they handing out candy-canes and organizing hay rides? Or are they strapping nail bombs to themselves and running into crowded marketplaces? How can you just focus on the U.S. only?????
A group of religious zealots takes over a country and forms a non-recognized government, forces everyone to obey a very, very strict religious code (with or without their consent) and harbored terrorists that plotted an attack that resulted the fucked-up world we now reside in.
I don't understand how LIBERAL people would rather stand behind a movement that is counter-productive to just about every other ideal they may stand for, then a country fighting a war so politically correct, its hands are tied to the point that little progress can be made.
The facts are the facts, makes little difference where they are reported from in this case (can they be verified? 'Yes'). You make it seem like some of these stories and reports are made up fairly tales, believe me. It would be great if the reports on dead children and innocents are false. But they are not false, they are true.
You go on about the Taliban, US government officials were meeting with the Taliban before 9/11 (late 90's?). Yes, the United States was willing to do business with them before 9/11. But that's what the US does, it does Business with 'bad' people, the killers, the liars, the hypocrites, those are the kinds of partners the US had/has.
The Taliban grew after the US left Afghanistan in the dumps when they beat back the Soviets (with the help of the Americans). That allowed the Taliban to form.
Anyway, focus tends to mostly be on the US because, well...The US is the Empire of the day, whatever years ago, we would be talking about the Roman Empire, or the British Empire. But Now, in this day, in this time, it's the US Empire that is the head of the Snake of Imperialism.
It was the first time the President publicly acknowledged the classified program
by John Glaser, January 30, 2012
“I want to make sure people understand actually drones have not caused a huge number of civilian casualties,” President Obama said in an hour long interview hosted by Google. “For the most part, they’ve been very precise, precision strikes against against al-Qaeda and their affiliates.”
The claim mirrors previous attempts to downplay the civilian casualties of the drone war. John Brennan, President Obama’s counter-terrorism advisor, told the public back in June that zero civilian casualties have occurred as a result of U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan.
----
US drone strikes in Pakistan have killed more civilians than previously reported, including 168 children, according to figures compiled by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.
http://www.channel4.com/news/study-reveals-168-child-deaths-in-pakistan-drone-war
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/08/10/most-complete-picture-yet-of-cia-drone-strikes/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/17/us-drone-strikes-pakistan-waziristan
Birth Defects, cancer rates on the rise...Destroying the lives of children yet to even be born. Our Tax Dollars at work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xgb7HdZDwU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzHQrFuoqhM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX9XJlxL6Vo
too bad we have to rely on international media to hear anything about it...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
our leaders should be charged with crimes against humanity..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
What makes you think they need to leave the house to get killed?
Really? How many innocent American women and children have been deployed in Afghanistan?
Afghan civilian death toll reaches record high
• UN report says 3,021 civilians killed in 2011
• 8% increase on 2010 and fifth consecutive rise
• Number of suicide bombings static but toll rises 80%
Damien Pearse and agencies
guardian.co.uk, Saturday 4 February 2012
The civilian death toll for the war in Afghanistan reached a record high last year with 3,021 deaths, according to the United Nations.
The number killed rose by 8% last year – the fifth consecutive rise – with a further 4,507 civilians wounded, the UN report said. Many were killed by roadside bombs or in suicide attacks, with Taliban-affiliated militants responsible for three-quarters of the deaths.
The number of deaths caused by suicide bombings jumped to 450, an 80% increase over the previous year, even though the number of suicide attacks remained about the same.
"A decade after the war began, the human cost of it is still rising," said Georgette Gagnon, director for human rights for the UN mission in Afghanistan.
The single deadliest suicide attack since 2008 occurred on 6 December, when a bomber detonated his explosives-filled vest at the entrance of a mosque in Kabul, killing 56 worshippers during the Shia Muslim rituals of Ashoura.
Roadside bombs remain the biggest killer of civilians. The homemade explosives – which can be triggered by a footstep or a vehicle and are often rigged with enough explosives to destroy a tank – killed 967 people in 2011, nearly a third of the total.
The figures come as Nato begins to map out plans for international troops to withdraw and hand over responsibility for security to Afghan security forces.
The presence of western forces has managed to reduce civilian casualties in the troubled southern provinces of Helmand and Kandahar. But the UN found that insurgents had focused instead on areas along the country's border with Pakistan. They were also relying more on roadside bombs and suicide attacks in places like bazaars, school grounds, footpaths and bus stations.
"The tactics have changed," said Jan Kubis, the UN secretary general's special representative to Afghanistan. "The anti-government forces being squeezed in certain areas ... move to some other areas and again use these inhuman, undiscriminating weapons like human-activated explosive devices and suicide attacks."
Kubis said the Taliban banned the use of land mines as "un-Islamic and anti-human" in 1998 when they ruled Afghanistan with their harsh interpretation of Islamic law. But the UN report said there was little difference between mines and the buried homemade bombs used by the Taliban. The majority of improvised devices have about 20kg (44lb) of explosives and are triggered when a person steps on, or a vehicle drives over rigged pressure plates.
"These are basically land mines," Kubis said of the roadside bombs. "So why is this 'inhuman and un-Islamic' weapon being increasingly used?"
The number of roadside bombs planted last year overwhelmed security forces' improved ability to detect and defuse them. An average of 23 roadside bombs a day were either detonated or discovered and defused last year, twice the daily average in 2010, the report said. Actual explosions increased by 6%.
The UN attributed 77% of the deaths to insurgent attacks and 14% to actions by international and Afghan troops. The cause of the remaining 9% were classified as unknown.
I'm always unsettled by the extremism on these boards. It's very difficult to post anything here without being ignored or insulted. There's just no room for a middle ground.
Such as?
Please. I'm not going to get dragged into a battle with you.
No need to battle. Just provide an example.
The problem is, most things on the train end up being a battle between highly antagonistic posters who do nothing more than bait each other into name calling and whining about posting violations.
Still, if you want an example, how about one of your earlier posts in this thread?
I'm sorry, but that's a pretty bold and pretty antagonistic statement. I don't really want to pursue this issue further as I find the discussions to be incredibly hostile. You (and others) openly condemn the US, but you deliberately downplay the heinous acts of other groups in order to exaggerate your points.
Let me be clear; I'm 100% opposed to western powers involving themselves in foreign conflicts. The US, Canada and any other foreign power has no business in the area. Having said that, I find downplaying or outright ignoring the human rights violations in the regime to be just as unsettling.
That's just untrue. In fact it's disgusting saying that I or anyone else here "downplays the heinous acts of other groups in order to exaggerate your points", without even providing an example of that.
and that post of mine you quoted, Read it in context. It's by and large very true. Terrorist terrorize innocent people and understand how much pain killing civilians causes. That's why they do it.
As far as NATO goes, if they wanted to end terror (so to speak), they would not be causing terror, and understand that their actions are creating it. and every one terrorist they kill, they create 100 more because they are seemingly ignorant of the cost of human life. when the life is not one of their own.
Yea the Taliban were bad before 9/11, so bad that the US was meeting with them in Washington etc and were more than willing to do business with them. Then 9/11 happens and it's full out attack on them.