my bad
i should have said
"that sounds racist to me"
i can tell that you have love in your heart for all human beings
i see it in all of your posts
? Don't lie... Be a man and back up your posts.
nah,
with you
it's just a waste of time
i've seen your turtle egg theory
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
another pointless and meaningless racism thread....good job mrAbraham !
Godfather.
I'm sorry you feel that way, and you are probably right, this thread is now pointless, but no doubt we can see the meaning in it.
Obviously race issues are one of the main issues that we need to deal with, unfortunately we allow our emotions to control us too much. But the simple fact that we are having this debate, is a good thing.
Maybe we can not get this thread back on point, which is perhaps too much to ask for? But a very important thing remains, has the balance of race truly been met? we clearly see that is has not. And another point that was brought up in here was regarding top jobs, if the spectrum of race has truly harmonized, what do we make of the most powerful jobs still mainly going to one group of people? The white male.
inmytree, again it's just not good enough is it,so what would be the ideal answer or situation ?
this country has moved forward (in the last 47 years) but people still whine that it's not enough so
how would you have it ?
Godfather.
yikes...somebody's a wee bit testy today...
I was just pointing out a fact...you seem to thing all have been treated equally for centuries...that's not the case...
And another point that was brought up in here was regarding top jobs, if the spectrum of race has truly harmonized, what do we make of the most powerful jobs still mainly going to one group of people? The white male.
That is a good question. As a W.M.A., I'm not aware of any Stonecutter organization making sure that is the way things pan out (at least I have yet to be invited ... perhaps they know about all those Ice Cube and NWA tapes I had as a kid). I think a good portion of it has to do with demographics (US majority is white) and competitive drive (males typically more aggressive and competitive the females).
But I also think that to get to the top and have a powerful job, it's not always what you know but who you know. I don't think it is intentional or racist, but if whitey has been running a company for a hundred years, nepotism and whitey's friends stand a better chance at taking over then a stranger like me. That is what may frustrate some of my white male brethren who like most of us are just average people with no money and no connections, yet find themselves excluded from opportunities to improve their lives due to gender and race.
inmytree, again it's just not good enough is it,so what would be the ideal answer or situation ?
this country has moved forward (in the last 47 years) but people still whine that it's not enough so
how would you have it ?
Godfather.
yikes...somebody's a wee bit testy today...
I was just pointing out a fact...you seem to thing all have been treated equally for centuries...that's not the case...
yes I am and I apologize for that, I go through life seeing everybody for who they are and how the act not the color of their skin, this stuff irritates me.
I simply think all scholarships should be available to everybody. I'm a 20 year old white male student, and it IS frusturating when kids from my neighbourhood are getting scholarships I never could even apply for. However, I do see why.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I simply think all scholarships should be available to everybody. I'm a 20 year old white male student, and it IS frusturating when kids from my neighbourhood are getting scholarships I never could even apply for. However, I do see why.
I simply think all scholarships should be available to everybody. I'm a 20 year old white male student, and it IS frusturating when kids from my neighbourhood are getting scholarships I never could even apply for. However, I do see why.
Why?
If a community group wants to grow it's status in the overall city, the best place to do that is educate the young individuals of that community. Scholarships make it easier to do that.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
r u kidding me? i live in the here and now and in my 'here and now' everyone is struggling including white males - and i have 3 of them to put through college! just because years and years ago white males were considered "privledged" certainly doesn't mean that's the case now. everyone is struggling - my son can't apply for a shit load of scholarships because he is who he is - white male. and not for nothing -- he had to 'know someone' to finally land a minimum wage job yet i know plenty who are minorities whose kids are 'eligible' for tons of programs and internships because they are not 'white.' i see quite a bit of reverse discrimination.
Unfortunately, your son is paying the price for past wrongs.
If the playing field has truly been equaled, what do we make of the high powered jobs mostly going to white males?
This whole issue should be about equal opportunity.....which does not necessarily mean equal results. I have no problem with scholarship opportunities for specific groups of people, be they minorities, white, male or female. After all, there is no such thing as a "right" to a scholarship. There is, however, a right for people with the means to provide scholarship opportunities to provide such opportunities on their own terms, whether you agree with them or not. Why the double standard? Is it really about "leveling the playing field," or is it actually about appeasing your own white liberal guilt over injustices of which neither you nor I played a part? Mr. Abraham, if you're so in favor of "leveling the playing field," then perhaps you hold the position that we should enslave the white race for a few hundred years. That, sir, would put us all on truly equal historical footing. It seems to be quite a slippery slope you're on.
If the playing field has truly been equaled, what do we make of the high powered jobs mostly going to white males?
This whole issue should be about equal opportunity.....which does not necessarily mean equal results. I have no problem with scholarship opportunities for specific groups of people, be they minorities, white, male or female. After all, there is no such thing as a "right" to a scholarship. There is, however, a right for people with the means to provide scholarship opportunities to provide such opportunities on their own terms, whether you agree with them or not. Why the double standard? Is it really about "leveling the playing field," or is it actually about appeasing your own white liberal guilt over injustices of which neither you nor I played a part? Mr. Abraham, if you're so in favor of "leveling the playing field," then perhaps you hold the position that we should enslave the white race for a few hundred years. That, sir, would put us all on truly equal historical footing. It seems to be quite a slippery slope you're on.
I see the problem we have, you simply do not understand the issue we are talking about, missing the important questions. Simply using conjecture for your argument and then it's followed by Godfathers knee jerk reaction of "great post, well said"
I do however agree it should be about = opportunity, and like you said, "which does not necessarily mean equal results"
The question is still, when you have two people, of = qualifications, but one white and one black, the odds are in favor of the man with the lighter skin who get's the job, or the promotion.
Perhaps it's sub conscious hiring, the mind is a powerful thing.
Again, leave your emotions aside, clearly look at the facts. You see, it's obvious the way your logic is working at this point, thinking that putting the white race in slavery for whatever amount of years would put us on an equal footing. Yet you ignore the consequences of doing something like that at this point in our time.
It's very strange for you to say something like that, it really makes no sense, please take two steps back before one step forward. It may help you. It helps me.
You see, what's done is done, slavery is over (for the most part), so now we are trying to deal with it's consequences, that is what I care about. Not silly eye for an eye stuff you speak of.
If the playing field has truly been equaled, what do we make of the high powered jobs mostly going to white males?
This whole issue should be about equal opportunity.....which does not necessarily mean equal results. I have no problem with scholarship opportunities for specific groups of people, be they minorities, white, male or female. After all, there is no such thing as a "right" to a scholarship. There is, however, a right for people with the means to provide scholarship opportunities to provide such opportunities on their own terms, whether you agree with them or not. Why the double standard? Is it really about "leveling the playing field," or is it actually about appeasing your own white liberal guilt over injustices of which neither you nor I played a part? Mr. Abraham, if you're so in favor of "leveling the playing field," then perhaps you hold the position that we should enslave the white race for a few hundred years. That, sir, would put us all on truly equal historical footing. It seems to be quite a slippery slope you're on.
I see the problem we have, you simply do not understand the issue we are talking about, missing the important questions. Simply using conjecture for your argument and then it's followed by Godfathers knee jerk reaction of "great post, well said"
I do however agree it should be about = opportunity, and like you said, "which does not necessarily mean equal results"
The question is still, when you have two people, of = qualifications, but one white and one black, the odds are in favor of the man with the lighter skin who get's the job, or the promotion.
Perhaps it's sub conscious hiring, the mind is a powerful thing.
Again, leave your emotions aside, clearly look at the facts. You see, it's obvious the way your logic is working at this point, thinking that putting the white race in slavery for whatever amount of years would put us on an equal footing. Yet you ignore the consequences of doing something like that at this point in our time.
It's very strange for you to say something like that, it really makes no sense, please take two steps back before one step forward. It may help you. It helps me.
You see, what's done is done, slavery is over (for the most part), so now we are trying to deal with it's consequences, that is what I care about. Not silly eye for an eye stuff you speak of.
I might point out that you are the one talking about leveling the playing field. In this context, what is that besides "eye for an eye"? You talk of the legitimacy of denying equal opportunity to white males because opportunities were denied in the past to those who were not white males. And what "facts" would you like me to look at? You criticize my "conjecture," but then you say if equally qualified people apply for the same job (one white, one black), the white will more likely get the job. Where does that come from? Are these "facts" simply because you say they are facts? On what do you base this statement? I alleged no facts in my post, simply my opinion, and not an opinion for which proof of facts is necessary. There are many issues over which reasonable minds may disagree, and this is one of them. But you also say that this sort of discrimination is okay if it discriminates against white males...all in the name of "leveling the playing field." Once again, why the double standard?
Also, Mr. Abraham, you were obviously lost on the facetiousness of my "enslave the white race" proposal. I was simply trying to expose the absurdity of your logic.
Let's see, I'll simply break it down for you to a level you will understand.
I do not support easy affirmative actions. Think about it, give someone a job or position based only on race? How is that good right? It's not good at all! We agree no doubt my friend, give the (say it with me) the most qualified person the job,
Should that blind us to the simple fact that people of color are not treated the same as people who are white? We know these are facts due to the many studies done regarding race in the work place. Now we can choose not to believe this, but that may be another issue. Forgive me for not backing that up with paper work that I do not currently have on tap to provide you with. But rather encourage you to investigate these things yourself so you may see for yourself what we are faced with.
I rather not go after you as a poster and other things you mention, no point. Simply prefer to lay these simple points out.
But one thing you say, no facts in your post? just your opinion you say? So it was your opinion that I am some white liberal who has guilt from past etc etc, Again, taking your conjecture into play. Turning me into something I am not. Simply jumping to conclusions of what you think I am.
Now I'd also like to end with saying, please read over all my posts, contemplate what I have said.
Let's see, I'll simply break it down for you to a level you will understand.
I do not support easy affirmative actions. Think about it, give someone a job or position based only on race? How is that good right? It's not good at all! We agree no doubt my friend, give the (say it with me) the most qualified person the job,
Should that blind us to the simple fact that people of color are not treated the same as people who are white? We know these are facts due to the many studies done regarding race in the work place. Now we can choose not to believe this, but that may be another issue. Forgive me for not backing that up with paper work that I do not currently have on tap to provide you with. But rather encourage you to investigate these things yourself so you may see for yourself what we are faced with.
I rather not go after you as a poster and other things you mention, no point. Simply prefer to lay these simple points out.
But one thing you say, no facts in your post? just your opinion you say? So it was your opinion that I am some white liberal who has guilt from past etc etc, Again, taking your conjecture into play. Turning me into something I am not. Simply jumping to conclusions of what you think I am.
Now I'd also like to end with saying, please read over all my posts, contemplate what I have said.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate..."
Perhaps wee need to read each other's posts more carefully. My comment about your alleged white liberal guilt ended with a question mark, did it not? I wasn't making assumptions about you....just asking a question...and I think you've answered it. I apologize for not familiarizing myself with the studies of which you speak, but it would do little good since I'm a skeptic who usually doesn't believe "studies," due to the fact that many of these "studies" are conducted by organizations and groups with agendas. I base my statements on what I see in my life and in my workplace, and this disparity you're talking about doesn't exist where I work. Does it exist elsewhere? I don't doubt that it does, but all manners of disparities exist on all levels of this crazy world. It's not quite as black and white as many would have you believe (pun intended). That being said, I think we're at the same conclusion, but got there from opposite directions. Hard to imagine...
How about something we all can agree on: who likes PEARL JAM? WOO-HOO!!!!!
Comments
nah,
with you
it's just a waste of time
i've seen your turtle egg theory
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
what kind of a person lies about someone on a message board???
Nope, it's about who should get the scholarships first, the golf team or the basketball team?
Godfather.
I'm sorry you feel that way, and you are probably right, this thread is now pointless, but no doubt we can see the meaning in it.
Obviously race issues are one of the main issues that we need to deal with, unfortunately we allow our emotions to control us too much. But the simple fact that we are having this debate, is a good thing.
Maybe we can not get this thread back on point, which is perhaps too much to ask for? But a very important thing remains, has the balance of race truly been met? we clearly see that is has not. And another point that was brought up in here was regarding top jobs, if the spectrum of race has truly harmonized, what do we make of the most powerful jobs still mainly going to one group of people? The white male.
yikes...somebody's a wee bit testy today...
I was just pointing out a fact...you seem to thing all have been treated equally for centuries...that's not the case...
But I also think that to get to the top and have a powerful job, it's not always what you know but who you know. I don't think it is intentional or racist, but if whitey has been running a company for a hundred years, nepotism and whitey's friends stand a better chance at taking over then a stranger like me. That is what may frustrate some of my white male brethren who like most of us are just average people with no money and no connections, yet find themselves excluded from opportunities to improve their lives due to gender and race.
yes I am and I apologize for that, I go through life seeing everybody for who they are and how the act not the color of their skin, this stuff irritates me.
Godfather.
This whole issue should be about equal opportunity.....which does not necessarily mean equal results. I have no problem with scholarship opportunities for specific groups of people, be they minorities, white, male or female. After all, there is no such thing as a "right" to a scholarship. There is, however, a right for people with the means to provide scholarship opportunities to provide such opportunities on their own terms, whether you agree with them or not. Why the double standard? Is it really about "leveling the playing field," or is it actually about appeasing your own white liberal guilt over injustices of which neither you nor I played a part? Mr. Abraham, if you're so in favor of "leveling the playing field," then perhaps you hold the position that we should enslave the white race for a few hundred years. That, sir, would put us all on truly equal historical footing. It seems to be quite a slippery slope you're on.
Godfather.
I see the problem we have, you simply do not understand the issue we are talking about, missing the important questions. Simply using conjecture for your argument and then it's followed by Godfathers knee jerk reaction of "great post, well said"
I do however agree it should be about = opportunity, and like you said, "which does not necessarily mean equal results"
The question is still, when you have two people, of = qualifications, but one white and one black, the odds are in favor of the man with the lighter skin who get's the job, or the promotion.
Perhaps it's sub conscious hiring, the mind is a powerful thing.
Again, leave your emotions aside, clearly look at the facts. You see, it's obvious the way your logic is working at this point, thinking that putting the white race in slavery for whatever amount of years would put us on an equal footing. Yet you ignore the consequences of doing something like that at this point in our time.
It's very strange for you to say something like that, it really makes no sense, please take two steps back before one step forward. It may help you. It helps me.
You see, what's done is done, slavery is over (for the most part), so now we are trying to deal with it's consequences, that is what I care about. Not silly eye for an eye stuff you speak of.
I might point out that you are the one talking about leveling the playing field. In this context, what is that besides "eye for an eye"? You talk of the legitimacy of denying equal opportunity to white males because opportunities were denied in the past to those who were not white males. And what "facts" would you like me to look at? You criticize my "conjecture," but then you say if equally qualified people apply for the same job (one white, one black), the white will more likely get the job. Where does that come from? Are these "facts" simply because you say they are facts? On what do you base this statement? I alleged no facts in my post, simply my opinion, and not an opinion for which proof of facts is necessary. There are many issues over which reasonable minds may disagree, and this is one of them. But you also say that this sort of discrimination is okay if it discriminates against white males...all in the name of "leveling the playing field." Once again, why the double standard?
I do not support easy affirmative actions. Think about it, give someone a job or position based only on race? How is that good right? It's not good at all! We agree no doubt my friend, give the (say it with me) the most qualified person the job,
Should that blind us to the simple fact that people of color are not treated the same as people who are white? We know these are facts due to the many studies done regarding race in the work place. Now we can choose not to believe this, but that may be another issue. Forgive me for not backing that up with paper work that I do not currently have on tap to provide you with. But rather encourage you to investigate these things yourself so you may see for yourself what we are faced with.
I rather not go after you as a poster and other things you mention, no point. Simply prefer to lay these simple points out.
But one thing you say, no facts in your post? just your opinion you say? So it was your opinion that I am some white liberal who has guilt from past etc etc, Again, taking your conjecture into play. Turning me into something I am not. Simply jumping to conclusions of what you think I am.
Now I'd also like to end with saying, please read over all my posts, contemplate what I have said.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate..."
Perhaps wee need to read each other's posts more carefully. My comment about your alleged white liberal guilt ended with a question mark, did it not? I wasn't making assumptions about you....just asking a question...and I think you've answered it. I apologize for not familiarizing myself with the studies of which you speak, but it would do little good since I'm a skeptic who usually doesn't believe "studies," due to the fact that many of these "studies" are conducted by organizations and groups with agendas. I base my statements on what I see in my life and in my workplace, and this disparity you're talking about doesn't exist where I work. Does it exist elsewhere? I don't doubt that it does, but all manners of disparities exist on all levels of this crazy world. It's not quite as black and white as many would have you believe (pun intended). That being said, I think we're at the same conclusion, but got there from opposite directions. Hard to imagine...
How about something we all can agree on: who likes PEARL JAM? WOO-HOO!!!!!
I do I do I do!
and we know what Eddie says about White Male American
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmgL6MNVV1c I was there it was awesome!
What a song!