out of all the great leaders and patriots in history...

ed243421

Godfather. wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

he had balls which is more than i can say about a lot of people.

Godfather.

Balls to ignore AIDS.
Balls to buddy up with Sadam.
Balls to back death squads in Nicaragua.

politics....and what do you think is any different today ? in few years you can post the same thing about Obama
or just about any president after Reagan...except Carter but I'm sure there is a pile of shit that people will toss at him too, politics is a deep dark world and keeping America safe is a dirty game but most people on this forum will never believe that, all countries have as you put it "death squads" in one way or another but you may not find them in the internet,there are powerful people in our government and governments around the world, in our country the president is just a puppet for the people or a mouth piece for the real power that call the shots and obamas broken promises should be a clear indicator of that, when we're talking about a countries safety why would you bring a knife to a gun fight ? I would like to see things different also but the compition for power among countries will never permit a prefect world.

Anyway thats my take on it,can anybody prove it different ?

Godfather.

doesn't it blow your mind when you think a president did good things
only to be taught by a forum from a group of stangers that he was a
tyrant

g under p

Jasunmark wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Let us remember Reagan as he really was...

o Liar
o Thief
o Mass murderer
o War criminal
o Traitor
o Destroyer of freedom
o Destroyer of the environment
o Corporate whore
o Supporter of satanists and child murderers
o Idiot, moron

While Reagan may have not been entirely aware of what he was doing and how his decisions would impact the world, he was also much more sinister than the media has portrayed him. We can only hope that he gets to meet some of his many victims after joining the other thugs in hell.

Everybody loves a happy ending.

.

Also a flip floppper....he was a former Demorcrat

Peace

Prince Of Dorkness

g under p wrote:

Jasunmark wrote:

Everybody loves a happy ending.

.

Also a flip floppper....he was a former Demorcrat

Peace

Um... no, I don't think that everyone loves a flip flopper.

We all know he wasn't a Democrat or a Republican, he was an opportunist.

Byrnzie

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ronal ... an_iF.html

War Crimes and Double Standards
(of Ronald Reagan and the press)
by Robert Parry
iF magazine, May/ June 1999


***
... The United States invites the charge of hypocrisy when it accuses "enemy leaders" of war crimes, while it turns a blind eye to equally horrific slaughters committed by allies, sometimes guided and protected by the U.S. government.

With release of truth commission reports in several Central American countries - most recently Guatemala - there can no longer be any doubt about the historical reality.

In the 1980s, U.S.-backed forces committed widespread massacres, political murders and torture. Tens of thousands of civilians died. Many of the dead were children. Soldiers routinely raped women before executing them.

There can be no doubt, too, that President Reagan was an avid supporter of the implicated military forces, that he supplied them with weapons and that he actively sought to discredit human rights investigators and journalists who exposed the crimes.

It is also cleat that the massacres at El Mazote and other villages across El Salvador, the destruction of more than 600 Indian communities in Guatemala, and the torture and "disappearances" of dissidents throughout the region were as horrible as what Slobadan Milosevic's Serb army has done in Kosovo.

But for Milosovic and his henchmen, there is talk of a war crimes tribunal. For Reagan, there are only honors, his name added to National Airport and etched into an international trade center, even a congressional plan to carve his visage into Mount Rushmore.

In the apt phrase of New York Times correspondent Raymond Bonner, the 1980s were a time of "weakness and deceit." Yet, the continuing blindness to crimes against humanity in Central America in the 1980s has brought that weakness and deceit into and through the 1990s, now as a permanent trait of Washington's political class.

Without doubt, it is safer for an American journalist or politician to wag a finger at Milosovic or at the killers in Rwanda or at the Khmer Rouge than it is to confront the guilt that pervaded Ronald Reagan's presidency.
Reagan, after all, has a throng of ideological enthusiasts - many with opinion columns and seats on weekend chat shows. Nothing makes them madder than to hear their hero disparaged.

To suggest that Reagan should be held to the same moral standard as Milosovic also invites lectures about "moral equivalence," a clever construct of the 1980s that meant, in effect, that the Cold War justified whatever American policy-makers did. One must not equate "our" crimes with "theirs."

Ironically, many of the conservatives who today advocate rock-hard moral values and who deplore fuzzy moral relativism embraced exactly that sort of situational ethic in the 1980s.

They did so under the banner of the Reagan doctrine, which held that battling the Evil Empire sanctified all actions no matter what other moral laws were violated, like some Medieval crusade, blessed by the pope and then sent off to slaughter infidels.

In this context, murder of unarmed civilians was not wrong. Neither were assassinations, torture, genocide, rape and drug smuggling. indeed, nothing was wrong as long as it was done in the name of winning the Cold War.

It didn't matter that the Soviet Union was in steep decline before the 1980s. It didn't matter that there never was a master plan for conquering the United States through Central America. It didn't matter that most of the victims simply wanted basic rights that North Americans take for granted.

But even more corrupting in its own way was the slippery refusal to debate the rationalizations openly. While the "moral equivalence" debate captivated some intellectual circles, the Reagan administration's basic strategy was simply to lie.

Rather than defending the atrocities, Reagan and his loyalists most often just denied that the crimes had happened and attacked anyone who said otherwise as a communist dupe.

Mostly, this lying strategy worked. By the end of the Reagan-Bush era, the national media no longer put up any fight for these historic truths. By the 1990s, the star reporters were more dedicated to their careers than to the principles of their profession.

Not surprisingly, therefore, the shocking historical disclosures form Guatemala earned only brief notice in the major news outlets.

But in our view, there are two important principles here: first, that truth is fundamental to a healthy democracy, and second, that the rules of common decency must be applied to all human endeavors. There are some acts that are simply wrong no matter who does them and why.

Through much of this century, those principles were held by many in Washington. Under those ideals, the United States led the fight against Nazi Germany and established many of the basic principles of international law.

... The larger question is whether the United States can confront its complicity in shameful war crimes committed against the people of Latin America.

While no one expects the ailing Ronald Reagan to face a war crimes tribunal, it is time for the nation to face the painful truth about him and his presidency - and to stop rewarding him with high honors...

Godfather.

ed, what really blows my mind is the hippie attitude and lack of willingness to understand what really happens in this country and why, some people will do nothing but complain while they sit safely in their homes loading the bong and read internet babble that suits their protest anything mentality.
there are a few people on here that I do respect their input and then there are some people on here that just need to bash and bitch about what or who ever seems to have been outside their dope soaked mind and idea of fair government,these people will get part of a story and use it to make their flimsy case without knowing why things happen and all the while sitting at home getting high on their own bullshit,these people don't care why, they only want to damn and prosecute anybody with the balls to make a difference or protect this country we live in and then tell everybody how smart they are because they don't read or listen to FOXNEWS....
and at the end of the day they have changed nothing.

Godfather.

g under p

Godfather. wrote:

ed, what really blows my mind is the hippie attitude and lack of willingness to understand what really happens in this country and why, some people will do nothing but complain while they sit safely in their homes loading the bong and read internet babble that suits their protest anything mentality.
there are a few people on here that I do respect their input and then there are some people on here that just need to bash and bitch about what or who ever seems to have been outside their dope soaked mind and idea of fair government,these people will get part of a story and use it to make their flimsy case without knowing why things happen and all the while sitting at home getting high on their own bullshit,these people don't care why, they only want to damn and prosecute anybody with the balls to make a difference or protect this country we live in and then tell everybody how smart they are because they don't read or listen to FOXNEWS....
and at the end of the day they have changed nothing.

Godfather.

Funny thing is the same thing is said and done to the current President and he's only been in office 2 years now. It is what it is.

Peace

Godfather.

g under p wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

ed, what really blows my mind is the hippie attitude and lack of willingness to understand what really happens in this country and why, some people will do nothing but complain while they sit safely in their homes loading the bong and read internet babble that suits their protest anything mentality.
there are a few people on here that I do respect their input and then there are some people on here that just need to bash and bitch about what or who ever seems to have been outside their dope soaked mind and idea of fair government,these people will get part of a story and use it to make their flimsy case without knowing why things happen and all the while sitting at home getting high on their own bullshit,these people don't care why, they only want to damn and prosecute anybody with the balls to make a difference or protect this country we live in and then tell everybody how smart they are because they don't read or listen to FOXNEWS....
and at the end of the day they have changed nothing.

Godfather.

Funny thing is the same thing is said and done to the current President and he's only been in office 2 years now. It is what it is

Peace

Ain't that the truth, seems we are all looking for something we can't find.

Godfather.

Byrnzie

Godfather. wrote:

ed, what really blows my mind is the hippie attitude and lack of willingness to understand what really happens in this country and why, some people will do nothing but complain while they sit safely in their homes loading the bong and read internet babble that suits their protest anything mentality.
there are a few people on here that I do respect their input and then there are some people on here that just need to bash and bitch about what or who ever seems to have been outside their dope soaked mind and idea of fair government,these people will get part of a story and use it to make their flimsy case without knowing why things happen and all the while sitting at home getting high on their own bullshit,these people don't care why, they only want to damn and prosecute anybody with the balls to make a difference or protect this country we live in and then tell everybody how smart they are because they don't read or listen to FOXNEWS....
and at the end of the day they have changed nothing.

Godfather.

Nice way of ignoring all of the points raised while managing to throw out a bunch of lame insults.

You're only contribution to this debate before this pathetic rant was that Reagan had balls. So go ahead and enlighten us as to 'why things happen' oh wise one.

Byrnzie

Godfather. wrote:

politics is a deep dark world and keeping America safe is a dirty game but most people on this forum will never believe that, all countries have as you put it "death squads" in one way or another but you may not find them in the internet,there are powerful people in our government and governments around the world, in our country the president is just a puppet for the people or a mouth piece for the real power that call the shots and obamas broken promises should be a clear indicator of that, when we're talking about a countries safety why would you bring a knife to a gun fight ? I would like to see things different also but the compition for power among countries will never permit a prefect world.

So you support the idea of a secret government that has no accountability or transparency, that funding death squads in Latin America was beneficial to the American public, and therefore believe that the U.S constitution should be treated like toilet paper?

As for every country having death squads, care to elaborate, or was that something you just made up because it sounded good?

Godfather.

Byrnzie wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

politics is a deep dark world and keeping America safe is a dirty game but most people on this forum will never believe that, all countries have as you put it "death squads" in one way or another but you may not find them in the internet,there are powerful people in our government and governments around the world, in our country the president is just a puppet for the people or a mouth piece for the real power that call the shots and obamas broken promises should be a clear indicator of that, when we're talking about a countries safety why would you bring a knife to a gun fight ? I would like to see things different also but the compition for power among countries will never permit a prefect world.

So you support the idea of a secret government that has no accountability or transparency, that funding death squads in Latin America was beneficial to the American public, and therefore believe that the U.S constitution should be treated like toilet paper?

As for every country having death squads, care to elaborate, or was that something you just made up because it sounded good?

insults or truth ? hurts don't it.
do I really have to explain death squads ?

Godfather.

Godfather.

Byrnzie wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

politics is a deep dark world and keeping America safe is a dirty game but most people on this forum will never believe that, all countries have as you put it "death squads" in one way or another but you may not find them in the internet,there are powerful people in our government and governments around the world, in our country the president is just a puppet for the people or a mouth piece for the real power that call the shots and obamas broken promises should be a clear indicator of that, when we're talking about a countries safety why would you bring a knife to a gun fight ? I would like to see things different also but the compition for power among countries will never permit a prefect world.

So you support the idea of a secret government that has no accountability or transparency, that funding death squads in Latin America was beneficial to the American public, and therefore believe that the U.S constitution should be treated like toilet paper?

As for every country having death squads, care to elaborate, or was that something you just made up because it sounded good?

found some for you.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sour ... =&aql=&oq=

Godfather.

Byrnzie

Godfather. wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

politics is a deep dark world and keeping America safe is a dirty game but most people on this forum will never believe that, all countries have as you put it "death squads" in one way or another but you may not find them in the internet,there are powerful people in our government and governments around the world, in our country the president is just a puppet for the people or a mouth piece for the real power that call the shots and obamas broken promises should be a clear indicator of that, when we're talking about a countries safety why would you bring a knife to a gun fight ? I would like to see things different also but the compition for power among countries will never permit a prefect world.

So you support the idea of a secret government that has no accountability or transparency, that funding death squads in Latin America was beneficial to the American public, and therefore believe that the U.S constitution should be treated like toilet paper?

As for every country having death squads, care to elaborate, or was that something you just made up because it sounded good?

insults or truth ? hurts don't it.
do I really have to explain death squads ?

Godfather.

I know what a death squad is. I asked ]you to provide evidence to support your previous claim that every country has death squads. So go ahead and provide some evidence. Or were you just talking out of your ass?