Senator Rand Paul proposes $500B in cuts

Shawshank

polaris_x wrote:

i don't see how population has anything to do with it ... japan is over 125 million and they have a socialist background ...

They also have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Even Norway and Sweden have higher rates than the U.S. So it's obvious that Socialism doesn't do much in the way of promoting self-worth and happiness.

haffajappa

Shawshank wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

i don't see how population has anything to do with it ... japan is over 125 million and they have a socialist background ...

They also have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Even Norway and Sweden have higher rates than the U.S. So it's obvious that Socialism doesn't do much in the way of promoting self-worth and happiness.

I don't understand how you can automatically assume Japan's suicide rate is based on their ideological background...

FiveB247x

This is a common response to a discussion like this, but in all honesty, what does the size of population have to do with government regulation or philosophy? Is our democracy more flawed because we've grown as a nation since inception? I don't quite understand the connection between the two at all. How exactly does that relate to the other? To me it seems more like a simplistic and misplaced way to simply dismiss the unknown.

HeidiJam wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

What is it then???

it is what you see in countries like norway and sweden ... people are free to exercise their individual choices so long as there is no detrement to society ... and that certain aspects of society such as health care, education and the environment are mandated and regulated by the government ... there is no slavery - this is not communism ... it is simply a philosophy that society would work much better working collectively rather than as individuals ...

we over me

Norway population - 4,827,038
Sweden Population - 9,302,123
USA population - 307,006,550...
Who deems whats detremental to society? You can't make everything equal/fair at the expense of other people, life does not work like that. Philosophy does not equal reality, ideally that would be a great society, but thats not real life.

Shawshank

haffajappa wrote:

I don't understand how you can automatically assume Japan's suicide rate is based on their ideological background...

No...I'm not assuming anything. I'm simply basing my opinion on the fact that countries who live by Socialist standards, aren't necessarily happier societies as many would try and lead you to believe. If the needs of society were truly met under that institution why would so many people feel the need to kill themselves?

FiveB247x

It's not the government job to make people "happy" but rather try and setup good, sound and fair policy for their nation which is beneficial to all. Happiness is a personal issue. People aren't "happy" because they live in a democracy or socialist state, people are happy because of their own decisions, thoughts, emotions, feelings and similar. Socialism is simply the manner in which a society allows the government to manage business and policy... that has zero to do with "happiness".

Shawshank wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

I don't understand how you can automatically assume Japan's suicide rate is based on their ideological background...

No...I'm not assuming anything. I'm simply basing my opinion on the fact that countries who live by Socialist standards, aren't necessarily happier societies as many would try and lead you to believe. If the needs of society were truly met under that institution why would so many people feel the need to kill themselves?

markin ball

I'm down with the original post.

whygohome

HeidiJam wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Please expalin how...

socialists place greater value on the wants and needs of the masses vs. the individual ... modern day socialism recognizes that given free reign and without restrictions - people would act strictly on their own self interests and that although the majority of people are not selfish or greedy ... the few that are would wreak a significant impact to those who are not ...

socialists believe in government and the need to regulate things like health care and education and the environment ... given free reign - socialists do not believe that corporations will act in the best interests of society but for themselves ... so, if that means dumping toxic waste into a watershed - that is what a corporation will do ...

care to explain why you think socialists do not acknowledge greed?

Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own collective good... That doctrine right there does not acknowledge greed, it acts as if a whole society can act together for the greater good, but thats not how the realy world works, and can't pretend that greed does not exist.

Sorry, but this definition is way off. I know socialists; they would laugh at this. Socialism is not evil. Socialism is not communism, and it is not Stalinism.

whygohome

unsung wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0B8--qw1ws

He wants to end both wars.

He wants term limits for ALL.

He wants to end ALL foreign aid, aid like the $3 BILLION that the US sends to Israel each year.

Them wacky TEA Party folks.

I agree with the first 2; however, I do not have a problem sending foreign aid to developing countries.

polaris_x

Shawshank wrote:

They also have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Even Norway and Sweden have higher rates than the U.S. So it's obvious that Socialism doesn't do much in the way of promoting self-worth and happiness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate

i'm not sure how you can correlate socialism to suicide based on this list ...

know1

unsung wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0B8--qw1ws

He wants to end both wars.

He wants term limits for ALL.

He wants to end ALL foreign aid, aid like the $3 BILLION that the US sends to Israel each year.

Them wacky TEA Party folks.

These are all VERY good ideas - except the foreign aid one. I believe in helping people no matter who they are.

know1

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

He wants to get rid of the Federal Department of Education. True. The States have their own, and another level of it is not necessary. I agree with this move.

I agree with this as well. It's a giant waste of money. I favor states getting rid of their Departments of Education as well. I used to not think this way, but I think private schools are the way to go.

Newch91

unsung wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0B8--qw1ws

He wants to end both wars.

He wants term limits for ALL.

He wants to end ALL foreign aid, aid like the $3 BILLION that the US sends to Israel each year.

Them wacky TEA Party folks.

I can only agree on ending the Iraq War. And no ending foreign aid.

polaris_x

foreign aid is tricky ...

there needs to be accountability in the money that is considered aid ...

i am guessing that they consider hiring haliburton to build some roads is considered aid ...

VINNY GOOMBA

polaris_x wrote:

foreign aid is tricky ...

there needs to be accountability in the money that is considered aid ...

i am guessing that they consider hiring haliburton to build some roads is considered aid ...

^True.

Foreign aid is often horribly mismanaged. It is also misread and misunderstood-- aid for Israel pisses off Palestine and vice versa, and the same goes for any neighboring countries witih differences around the world. But most importantly, it should be noted that not a single dime of foreign aid actually comes from collected taxes. It is money printed, or borrowed money-- so it's money that this country simply does not have.

The intentions CAN be good, but the implementation is bad. Again, if private individuals, charities, or companies want to donate money to a certain country for whatever cause they choose, they should be free to do it. Government should not be involved in determining who gets aid and who doesn't.

fife

unsung wrote:

Rand Paul has said that a private club can serve who they want to and not want to. The government should not force them to serve those that they don't want to.

I agree with him. However as he also stated that club or business should be prepared to face the consequences.

Bottom line is he wants $500,000,000,000 in spending cuts. Show me another politician who has taken that stand.

Typical? The only thing that is typical is certain people here that can't discuss the topic at hand.

just because one person says that they want to cut that much money doesn't mean he can or will. Rand Paul knows who is his target population is and is saying what he needs to say. I would like to see where exactly he wants to cut and how much. at that point there might be something to talk about.

Jason P

know1 wrote:

unsung wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0B8--qw1ws

He wants to end both wars.

He wants term limits for ALL.

He wants to end ALL foreign aid, aid like the $3 BILLION that the US sends to Israel each year.

Them wacky TEA Party folks.

These are all VERY good ideas - except the foreign aid one. I believe in helping people no matter who they are.

But what if the foreign aid amounts to the US giving a country $1B so they can aid themselves by buying $1B of Abrams tanks back from the US?

he still stands

FiveB247x wrote:

It's not the government job to make people "happy" but rather try and setup good, sound and fair policy for their nation which is beneficial to all. Happiness is a personal issue. People aren't "happy" because they live in a democracy or socialist state, people are happy because of their own decisions, thoughts, emotions, feelings and similar. Socialism is simply the manner in which a society allows the government to manage business and policy... that has zero to do with "happiness".

2nd time today... "this"

Are you a single woman perhaps?

FiveB247x

Thanks....and no I am not a woman... sorry to burst your bubble :-)

he still stands wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

It's not the government job to make people "happy" but rather try and setup good, sound and fair policy for their nation which is beneficial to all. Happiness is a personal issue. People aren't "happy" because they live in a democracy or socialist state, people are happy because of their own decisions, thoughts, emotions, feelings and similar. Socialism is simply the manner in which a society allows the government to manage business and policy... that has zero to do with "happiness".

2nd time today... "this"

Are you a single woman perhaps?

unsung

Jason P wrote:

But what if the foreign aid amounts to the US giving a country $1B so they can aid themselves by buying $1B of Abrams tanks back from the US?

That is called a loan, the US should not be a lending institution.