A reason to fight, and a reason to stand your ground

Soulfire42Soulfire42 Posts: 404
edited March 2011 in A Moving Train
I'm going to post a link to something extremely disturbing and without apologies. If you click on it, consider yourself forewarned. The video is horrific, brutal, and contains the killing of humans by muslims in the name Allah, supposedly for adultery. I consider videos like this to be truths we must be aware of and must hold in check with pleas of infinite tolerance. There are things which deserve no tolerance and which have no excuse. We live in a day and age where it is no longer as easy to stick our heads in the sand and pretend we simply didn't know. We also live in a world where the people casting such stones are also claiming to be the victims and that they deserve special treatments and protections. It's time we call a spade a spade.

One final warning... This link contains the stoning of people and murders by muslims in the name of their god.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9eb_1293414372

I am not trying to hatemonger or anything of the sort. But tolerance, multiculturalism and other seemingly good things must have limitations and we must not once more turn a blind eye to atrocity as it spreads tentacles as it once did in places like nazi Germany. We must be vigilant and understand that there IS a spreading influence of Islam and pushes for barbaric laws across the world. Barbarism is not limited to Islam, and I make no such claim. But nonetheless, the claim that Islam is purely a religion of peace while people carry out the murder of others under the decree of religious rulers is just absurd. There is something we must be aware of going on and something we must be willing to fight before it wins by default as we sleep. We should have a firm understanding of what we would consider an enemy to be, regardless of the religion, skin color, uniform or whatever guise it may take. And when we see it, we have to be willing to stand firm and fight against it in one way or another. After I watch a video like this, I cannot help but pretend that I do not see an enemy which must be confronted and not appeased, welcomed or allowed to flourish. Again, this is not me saying all muslims are bad, but I'm going to refuse to allow the truth that not all muslims are bad to equate to a tolerance of this insanity. This is not the act of one madman on a rampage. This is organized and must be stopped.

I provide one additional link from a British fellow who I think provides some keen insight on the topic of islamization and our need to take a stand.

http://www.patcondell.com/
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    I agree that the death penalty is sick and barbaric, in Iran, and in the U.S. The methods used by these states to murder people make little difference to me. They should both be opposed.

    As for labelling an entire religion and it's followers as degenerate and a threat to the world, I disagree. This is just lazy, reactionary thinking that does nothing but perpetuate bigotry and violence.
  • haffajappahaffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    I've typed and deleted what i was going to say about 4 times, because I don't know how to respond.

    People of all religions, or most religions, have done or do things that are disgusting... It's not just radical Muslims (emphasis on the RADICAL) you can point a finger at.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • I tried to make sure I went out of my way to make it clear that I was not branding all muslims as evil or anything. I am not trying to start a debate about the merits of one religion vs. another or anything of the sort. I actually consider myself a secular humanist. But what I am growing tired of and lacking patience for is people hiding under the banners of multiculturalism, tolerance and religious freedom as excuses for inaction, indifference and general apathy. I feel it is well past time to wake up and take notice and to set our minds to defense against spreading barbarism, no matter what religion or culture it comes from. Our level of tolerance and our level of apathy is growing to dangerous levels in its own right. Let's also get real and acknowledge that we're in bed with many nations which should be considered enemies based upon principles of shared humanity and common rights.
  • haffajappahaffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    Soulfire42 wrote:
    I tried to make sure I went out of my way to make it clear that I was not branding all muslims as evil or anything. I am not trying to start a debate about the merits of one religion vs. another or anything of the sort. I actually consider myself a secular humanist. But what I am growing tired of and lacking patience for is people hiding under the banners of multiculturalism, tolerance and religious freedom as excuses for inaction, indifference and general apathy. I feel it is well past time to wake up and take notice and to set our minds to defense against spreading barbarism, no matter what religion or culture it comes from. Our level of tolerance and our level of apathy is growing to dangerous levels in its own right. Let's also get real and acknowledge that we're in bed with many nations which should be considered enemies based upon principles of shared humanity and common rights.
    How is it exactly you think "we" should defend ourselves? And I'm still not sure what it is that we're to fear...
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • Religion is not violent poeple are.......poeple might kill in the name of anything they want but its poeple that are do the killing......in any war, feud, revolution, massacre, whatever it maybe the constant through whole thing is poeple....whatever race, creed, nation, surname..my point being poeple are somtimes evil fuckers.
  • First, I found it interesting that Iran and US death penalties were mentioned by a person who it says lives in China... the nation responsible for the most executions. But I digress...

    To respond with how I think we should defend ourselves. Well, there are plentiful ways I believe we need to. Let me first start by writing just a few of the things I feel we should be afraid of. We should be afraid of pushes to expand islamic laws throughout the world. Laws which make it acceptable to endorse a level of barbarism as evidenced by the footage presented in this thread. Countries across the world are facing growing pressure to accept, promote and even grant special status to islamic culture and insitutions. Investigations into the largest mosque in England discovered that despite having already been found to have people preaching hatred, separation and sharia law at the mosque and in private sessions directly affiliated with the mosque, when the mosque was investigated later they found the same activity. They were still selling videos full of hatred and Saudi trained women were still inviting women to special private sessions to teach sharia law and hatred of the west. We should be afraid of losing our ability to draw a cartoon and not have to worry about being murdered on the street like we have witnessed. We should be afraid of losing our ability to write a book which is perceived as critical of islam and then having states issue death threats upon us as did Salman Rushdie. We should be fearful of a religion which fosters fanatics who fly aircraft into our major cities and structures in the name of the God. We should be fearful of a religion being used to pass gross legislation which depletes our civil liberties like has been done with the Patriot Act. I could go on and on citing noteworthy things which we should be wary of and have our defenses raised against.

    Now back to the topic of how we should defend... (crap, the forum is bugging out on me and not letting me see what I'm typing so I'll continue on another post)
  • As for defense... We have to take up every defense which is suitable. For instance, it probably begins by recognizing that there is even an enemy present. Sticking our head in the sand and saying, "Not all muslims are bad" is simply not sufficient. It is a true statement, but it is also not sufficient to explain away the true horrors in that video and the growing influence of a religion which makes such atrocities much more commonplace or excusable. If you can watch that video and feel that you should not be on your guard or that we should not stand ready to defend a higher set of moral standards, well then... I guess we're just made of different stuff. I watch that video or any other atrocities like it and feel the need to be vigilant, to inform others and to try to make sure the just laws and freedoms I cherish do not get assailed. I believe the U.S. has found its way into a quagmire of defending religions to the point of absurdity and that enemies (on not just the islamic front) are using it to their advantage and to the disadvantage of the liberties and high standards of human decency we usually aspire to. I feel the U.S. has granted too much protection and privilege to religion and corporations and treats them as inalienable human beings when they are anything but that. For instance, our supreme court recently ruled that corporations could donate money at will to political campaigns due to some twisted absurd thinking that they are like individuals entitled to free speech. We must be wary and defending from similar absurdities and encroachments upon decency, civility and human rights via religious organizations like those espousing sharia law.

    There are people taking up arms and stones and quite willing to kill in the name of their god, Allah. There may be plenty of other religions doing similarly, but that is beside this particular point. The fact is, when you have organized efforts by large numbers of people who are willing to fight, die, kill and maim others for their cause, and they are also willing to use every advantage they can possibly get... well, maybe it is well past time to be thinking of how you should be ready to defend... on all fronts possible.
  • Religion is not violent poeple are.......poeple might kill in the name of anything they want but its poeple that are do the killing......in any war, feud, revolution, massacre, whatever it maybe the constant through whole thing is poeple....whatever race, creed, nation, surname..my point being poeple are somtimes evil fuckers.

    While it is true that people are sometimes evil fuckers, there is more to it than that. Watch that video if you can. Estimate the numbers of people there participating or standing by idly as people are murdered. What is making this so possible? I argue that it is belief in a primitive and barbaric religion that openly expresses its desire to expand, rule and conquer what it can. I would argue that religion (and not just islam) can and often does produce insanity and abhorrent acts which otherwise rational human beings would not tolerate. It is responsible to a large degree and trying to shift the blame to people just sometimes being evil fuckers is far too simplistic, in my analysis of things. It's a convenient way to also not do anything about it and stay in the apathetic mode of existence.
  • i'm not apathic bro i'm also not a reactionist.
  • BrianGBrianG Posts: 53
    i agree with you 100% and the sad thing is so many people just choose to "not know" and hope for the best. the replies so far illustrate that point. and unfortunately we have a president who will not even come close to analyzing things the way that you so clearly have, or if he does, he will never come close to speaking the words you so eloquently have typed. a tremendous amount of damage can be done in a four year presidential term (look at some of the lasting damage from the last presidential term) and i know that is not directly on topic here but it is interrelated. americans need to wake up, become informed and elect responsible leadership. i hate to sound negative, but the simple fact is, not enough americans seem to give a damn to take the time to become truly informed. it is easier to just shut off your brain and munch on nachos while watching american idol or survivor.
  • BrianGBrianG Posts: 53
    so if you are not a reactionist 'reactive', then what are you doing to be 'proactive' or are you just 'inactive'?

    it seems those are the only three options.
  • jamingjamersjamingjamers Posts: 383
    edited January 2011
    BrianG wrote:
    so if you are not a reactionist 'reactive', then what are you doing to be 'proactive' or are you just 'inactive'?

    it seems those are the only three options.

    Hey mate im not an american, i like to try and understand different cultures. there is always a lunatic fringe,you cant tar everyone with the same brush and there is more than three options i think you have to worry about your own backyard more so then war in some other backyard thats not yours.
    Post edited by jamingjamers on
  • Religion is not violent poeple are.......poeple might kill in the name of anything they want but its poeple that are do the killing......in any war, feud, revolution, massacre, whatever it maybe the constant through whole thing is poeple....whatever race, creed, nation, surname..my point being poeple are somtimes evil fuckers.


    I very much agree. I was raised in a Methodist church and taught many things by many hypocritical people about a God that we all must figure out on our own. One of the main things I took from this group of people and the book they choose to stand behind is that God is responsible for judgment, not us, and that if we as individuals want to be looked upon as "good" then we are supposed to love and treat our neighbor as we treat ourselves.
    ...to live in the present tense...
  • zarocatzarocat Posts: 1,901
    Excuse me, and I don't think people should be stoned to death or put to death for that matter (it makes my stomach turn and my brain swell), but if someone was to walk into your home and slice open your family in front you, and right before they were about to slice you open (bleed you out) I came through the door with a bag of rocks, would you tell me to start stoning the one standing over you ?
    Religion aside, it is a reality that we are called the western world for a reason. No ?
    Evolution of the people works at a snails pace. Our western media diets don't remind us that a many people of this earth are a 1000 years, for example, behind us. I'm sorry but if this man (I won't mention the woman because for all I know she winked at someone and was killed for it but i'll give the death of the man the benefit of the doubt for arguments sake) did do something that should have seen him executed by the state, are they suppose to wait around until they have sufficient infrastructure to stick him on death row? It's barbaric, yes, but it wasn't long ago that it was happening down the street from all of us.
    And if I remember correctly, didn't Texas execute a man with Down syndrome ? What's the difference ?
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  • BrianGBrianG Posts: 53
    well the way i see it is, if you are proud to not be a reactionist, meaning taking some action after the fact. then being proactive is taking action before the fact. absent those two things, you are being inactive. please enlighten me on what other options there are.

    we either wait for something to happen and react or we try to do something in advance. if we do neither, then we are doing nothing.

    personally, i would love to see us bring every U.S. troop home from every nation in the world, cease sending all of the foreign aid to dictators and poor nations around the world and focus on what is happening within our borders. we need to fix out own problems, then maybe we can worry about helping to fix the problems in parts of the world that have failed to find a way to live in peace for centuries. let these barbarian states live in their perpetual cycle of self destruction and poverty until the people get sick of it and decide to help themselves through revolution, peaceful or otherwise. but i am obviously not in charge.
  • satansbedsatansbed Posts: 2,139
    BrianG wrote:
    well the way i see it is, if you are proud to not be a reactionist, meaning taking some action after the fact. then being proactive is taking action before the fact. absent those two things, you are being inactive. please enlighten me on what other options there are.

    we either wait for something to happen and react or we try to do something in advance. if we do neither, then we are doing nothing.

    personally, i would love to see us bring every U.S. troop home from every nation in the world, cease sending all of the foreign aid to dictators and poor nations around the world and focus on what is happening within our borders. we need to fix out own problems, then maybe we can worry about helping to fix the problems in parts of the world that have failed to find a way to live in peace for centuries. let these barbarian states live in their perpetual cycle of self destruction and poverty until the people get sick of it and decide to help themselves through revolution, peaceful or otherwise. but i am obviously not in charge.


    so America should only give money to rich countries then....
  • revolution comes from the inside not from you
    and the way i see it is you dont know what i am
    i will happily donate some money for your plane fair so you can bestow your ultimate percieved righteouness.
    how many wars have America won when they invade another country?
    The other option is to foster education violence just begets violence.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Soulfire42 wrote:
    First, I found it interesting that Iran and US death penalties were mentioned by a person who it says lives in China... the nation responsible for the most executions.

    Why do you find that interesting? Does living somewhere automatically mean that you support the beliefs and actions of the government of that same country?
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Soulfire42 wrote:
    To respond with how I think we should defend ourselves. Well, there are plentiful ways I believe we need to. Let me first start by writing just a few of the things I feel we should be afraid of. We should be afraid of pushes to expand islamic laws throughout the world. Laws which make it acceptable to endorse a level of barbarism as evidenced by the footage presented in this thread. Countries across the world are facing growing pressure to accept, promote and even grant special status to islamic culture and insitutions. Investigations into the largest mosque in England discovered that despite having already been found to have people preaching hatred, separation and sharia law at the mosque and in private sessions directly affiliated with the mosque, when the mosque was investigated later they found the same activity. They were still selling videos full of hatred and Saudi trained women were still inviting women to special private sessions to teach sharia law and hatred of the west. We should be afraid of losing our ability to draw a cartoon and not have to worry about being murdered on the street like we have witnessed. We should be afraid of losing our ability to write a book which is perceived as critical of islam and then having states issue death threats upon us as did Salman Rushdie. We should be fearful of a religion which fosters fanatics who fly aircraft into our major cities and structures in the name of the God. We should be fearful of a religion being used to pass gross legislation which depletes our civil liberties like has been done with the Patriot Act. I could go on and on citing noteworthy things which we should be wary of and have our defenses raised against.

    Let me ask you a straight question:

    Are you a member of the Tea Party?
  • I found it interesting that you singled out two locations other than your own location which executes more people than anywhere. Are you guilty for those executions or in any way responsible? Nope, I highly doubt it. It was just curious to me that you'd include other nations with far less numbers than the one in which you live in. Nothing more, nothing less. As for being a member of the Tea Party... not even remotely. In fact, I despise politicians like Palin and other vapid mouthpieces. I'm far from warmongering and when I use the term "fight" I use it broadly. I'm not talking about taking up arms, nuking a population or any other horror in an attempt to fight other horrors. There may come a day when it does become necessary to take up arms or something, but I that's not what I'm getting at.

    I believe that western society has largely painted such broad protections for things like religion and freedom of speech that they are actually starting to be used by some nefariously. Not the lease of which are by our own political figures. I believe it is quite possible to practice to the point where somebody is essentially chewing off our arm before we take notice and do something about it. My point is that people practicing seemingly good values of tolerance, multiculturalism and diversity often practice it to the point of blindness and begin to think that undeniable acts of atrocity (such as what I have shown evidence of) are only being done by a radical, or a madman, or a some other tiny group. Yet there, right before us, is evidence of large numbers of people participating in organized murder and atrocities in an organized fashion that goes beyond the scope of a single madman, a radical or two, or some other myth. I understand that most of us would like to believe that the largest mosques are simply not recruitment vehicles for extremist views, sharia and other things which we should know are pure insanity. However, I have provided evidence that they increasingly are, even after being initially discovered and reprimanded. I could provide statistics of rapes increasing in European countries by muslim men and other statistics, but part of my point is that no matter what I show or prove with evidence, it will be dismissed by a belief to the contrary and by a desire to appear tolerant at any cost. When tolerance is pushed too far, I'm afraid there does start to be costs associated with it. I have shown evidence of murder by large numbers of people chanting the name of Allah and practicing sharia-style law for adultery. I have shown that it isn't just a tiny group of people doing this. I have shown crimes against humanity and now find myself as one sort of under attack and criticism for saying, "We should nto sit idle and watch this creep any further. Enough is enough." I hope that I embark upon a path similar to those who saw crimes like lynching and stood up similarly to say enough was enough with this backward thinking and because it is the culture of the people doing it, or the religion, or whatever other excuse one may want to throw out there... it simply is not acceptable. I am trained in cultural anthropology and sociology. I understand and have studied other cultures in great detail. Nonetheless, I know when thresholds are being crossed which humans should not stand for.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Soulfire42 wrote:
    I found it interesting that you singled out two locations other than your own location which executes more people than anywhere. Are you guilty for those executions or in any way responsible? Nope, I highly doubt it. It was just curious to me that you'd include other nations with far less numbers than the one in which you live in. Nothing more, nothing less.

    The fact that I live in China has absolutely no relevance to my comment on your post. Are you American? If so, then what right do you have to take the moral high ground with regards to Muslim countries - or any other country - enacting the death penalty?
    Soulfire42 wrote:
    right before us, is evidence of large numbers of people participating in organized murder and atrocities in an organized fashion that goes beyond the scope of a single madman, a radical or two, or some other myth.

    Over a million Iraqi's have been killed since 2003 as a direct result of the American invasion of that country. How does this fit into your scheme of things? Or is it only Muslims who are a threat to world peace?

    Soulfire42 wrote:
    I understand that most of us would like to believe that the largest mosques are simply not recruitment vehicles for extremist views, sharia and other things which we should know are pure insanity. However, I have provided evidence that they increasingly are, even after being initially discovered and reprimanded.

    I must have missed that 'evidence'. All I read was your personal opinion. If you have some evidence, then present a link.

    Soulfire42 wrote:
    I could provide statistics of rapes increasing in European countries by muslim men and other statistics, but part of my point is that no matter what I show or prove with evidence, it will be dismissed by a belief to the contrary and by a desire to appear tolerant at any cost. When tolerance is pushed too far, I'm afraid there does start to be costs associated with it. I have shown evidence of murder by large numbers of people chanting the name of Allah and practicing sharia-style law for adultery. I have shown that it isn't just a tiny group of people doing this.

    So now Muslim's are not just murderers, but they're also rapists too? Interesting.

    Let me ask you a question: How many wars have been started by Muslims in the past 50 years compared with wars begun by so-called 'Christian' nations?

    Soulfire42 wrote:
    I know when thresholds are being crossed which humans should not stand for.

    I do too. And you've just crossed one. Bigotry and racism should not be tolerated.
  • Hehe, now a bigot and racist for posting a video of murderers and refusing to tolerate it. I don't have time or will to debate every wrong in the world. If I chased every tangent in this thread I'd be off talking about Texas executing mentally handicapped people, etc, etc. Yes, there are wrongs all over the place. When we identify them we should challenge as many of them as we can. Stating something else is wrong in the world does not make it acceptable to ignore something as grossly inhuman as what I have posted. If you choose to not see the video as evidence, or other stuff I have posted, that is your decision. So be it. I am neither a bigot nor a racist. I have went pretty far astride to point this out and to not proclaim jihad upon muslims or any other such nonsense. In fact, I'm trying to combat and defend against those very sentiments from people who ARE proclaiming jihad against infidel like me. I am not defending Christianity in anything I have written. As I have stated, I am a secular humanist. I believe there are great dangers present in most organized religions. However, certain ones are exhibiting more harmful intentions and motives presently than others. If you only knew the diversity of people and faiths I embrace as I live my life, you would find your claims of my bigotry and racism absolutely, positively laughable. But I have full confidence that you don't really care to know me and that's your right. You want to label me a bigot and a racist, you're free to do so. I'd even "fight" for your right to do so. Do I oppose dropping bombs all over Iraq and other locations by the American government? Absolutely. Is that the point of this particular discussion or argument. Nope. Was discussing the overall death penalty? No. Can you see how I could spend hours and hours addressing every topic but the one upon which this thread was stated if I went chasing down every straw man built up to punch down or every remotely related side topic? Do I think mentally handicapped should be executed. Nope. Do I hate muslims? Nope. Do I advocate killing innocents? Nope. Do I advocate racism? Nope. In fact, I fight against it routinely. It's clear that you we're not going to be able to engage in a civil discussion with each other and that you want to brand me a racist bigot, so unfortuantely, I don't think I'll be wasting further time in this particular thread. I just hope that it causes some people to see something that they will not tolerate and will not continue to deny exists and is not just coming from one or two whack-job "radicals." We all have to pick our fights. I happen to want to pick mine against some of the most obviously egregious and inhuman acts I am aware of. If you watch the video and choose to take issue with me instead of those in it, that's your choice. I'll just think you a fool for it.

    If you want further proof/evidence/starting points for investigation on your own, starts with these and proceed to look:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 120245843#
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercover_Mosque
    http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/categ ... 69wHPzeECK

    So if you watch those and look fruther, you'll see that we agree on something. Racism and bigotry should not be tolerated... and that's EXACTLY what I'm saying it's time to fight. It's time to fight barbarism and people extending the tentacles of horrendous ideology.
  • You want to see why I bring in things like links of muslim rapes and a problem with a culture? You ask for evidence and such, but I know it just isn't going to matter to you. I understand cultural differences, but relativism cannot reach the point of absurdity or a point at which we become permissive of damn near anything just because it is "cultural." When you have a religion (any religion, the one this topic is about is the muslim faith) that professes absolute certainty based on unchallenged edicts from a god, a culture of inferiority of women and then see all sorts of negative results, at some point we ARE responsible for putting our foot down and saying enough is enough and we shall not tolerate this further. Here's some more evidence since you seem to want links and more info:

    Muslim Rape Epidemic Puts Sweden at Top of Euro Rape Statistics

    Filed under National News

    Leave a comment

    A Muslim rape epidemic in Sweden has ensured that it now tops the list as the European country with the most rapes per capita — 46 incidents per 100,000 residents.

    The EU report, due to be officially released tomorrow, shows that the number of reported rapes in Sweden is twice as many as the UK which reports 23 cases per 100,000 and 20 times higher than certain countries in southern and eastern Europe.

    The study, financed by the EU-funded Daphne II organisation, compared how the respective judicial systems managed rape cases across eleven EU countries.

    According to the report, the Swedish rape rate “cannot be explained purely by an increased tendency to report rapes and other more minor sexual offences.”

    Over 5,000 rapes are reported in Sweden per annum while reports in other countries of a comparable size amounted to only a few hundred.

    The Muslim link to the rape epidemic was already evident several years ago. In July 2005, a study from the Swedish Crime Prevention Council, Brå, revealed that rapists in that country were four times more likely to be foreign born.

    In addition, the report revealed that “resident aliens” from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia make up the largest number of rapists.

    The number of rape charges in Sweden has quadrupled in just above 20 years. Rape cases involving children under the age of 15 are six times as common today as they were a generation ago.

    In 2005, Swedish lawyer Ann Christine Hjelm found that 85 percent of the convicted rapists were “born on foreign soil or from foreign parents.”

    Sweden has a larger immigrant population than any other country in northern Europe. A Swedish ethnologist, Maria Bäckman, in her 2005 study, “When Majority Becomes Minority. Swedish Girls in a Multi-Ethnic Suburb”, presented at the University of Oslo, detailed how she had followed a group of Swedish girls in the suburb of Rinkeby outside Stockholm, where native Swedes had been turned into a minority due to Third World immigration.

    According to Ms Bäckman, several of the Swedish girls she interviewed stated that they had dyed their hair to try and avoid sexual harassment from the Third World immigrants.

    Most other kinds of violent crime have rapidly increased as well. Malmö, set to become the first Scandinavian city with a Muslim majority within a decade or two, has nine times as many reported robberies per capita as Copenhagen, Denmark.

    Crime is rampant in the growing ghettos of Malmö. Unemployment rates top 50 percent and in 2005, police figures recorded that 68 percent of all rapes that year were committed by Third Worlders, mainly Muslims, most of whom were second and third generation immigrants.

    In a sociological survey entitled “Vi krigar mot svenskarna” (“We’re waging a war against the Swedes”), published in 2006 by the Department of Sociology at Lunds University, young immigrants in the city of Malmö were interviewed about why they were so heavily involved in crime.

    The study was widely quoted in Swedish press. “The wave of robberies the city of Malmö has witnessed during this past year is part of a ‘war against the Swedes’,” said one newspaper report.

    “This is the explanation given by young robbers from immigrant backgrounds when questioned about why they only rob native Swedes, in interviews with Petra Åkesson for her thesis in sociology. ‘I read a report about young robbers in Stockholm and Malmö and wanted to know why they rob other youths. It usually does not involve a lot of money’, she said. She interviewed boys between 15 and 17 years old, both individually and in groups.

    “Almost 90 percent of all robberies reported to the police were committed by gangs, not individuals. ‘When we are in the city and robbing we are waging a war, waging a war against the Swedes.’ This argument was repeated several times.

    “‘Power for me means that the Swedes shall look at me, lie down on the ground and kiss my feet.’ The boys explain, laughingly, that ‘there is a thrilling sensation in your body when you’re robbing; you feel satisfied and happy; it feels as if you’ve succeeded; it simply feels good.

    “‘It’s so easy to rob Swedes, so easy. We rob every single day, as often as we want to, whenever we want to.’ The immigrant youth regard the Swedes as stupid and cowardly: ‘The Swedes don’t do anything; they just give us the stuff. They’re so wimpy.

    “The young robbers do not plan their crimes: ‘No, we just see some Swedes that look rich or have nice mobile phones and then we rob them.’”

    http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/mu ... n-and.html

    So I could keep pposting links, statistics, graphic videos of murders, and all of that, but I think you'll still find yourself more content to believe that I'm the real evil at hand instead.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Soulfire42 wrote:
    Hehe, now a bigot and racist for posting a video of murderers and refusing to tolerate it.

    Posting a video of an execution in a Muslim country and then going off on a rant about how the Islamic religion is evil and a threat to our survival has nothing to do with tolerance.

    Soulfire42 wrote:
    I am not defending Christianity in anything I have written.

    No, and but you haven't attacked it either. You're just attacking Islam instead.

    Has it ever occured to you that there are radical elements in both Islam and Christianity? Check out the thread on the Westboro Baptist Church if you need any clarification on this point.
    Soulfire42 wrote:
    I don't think I'll be wasting further time in this particular thread. I just hope that it causes some people to see something that they will not tolerate and will not continue to deny exists and is not just coming from one or two whack-job "radicals." We all have to pick our fights. I happen to want to pick mine against some of the most obviously egregious and inhuman acts I am aware of. If you watch the video and choose to take issue with me instead of those in it, that's your choice. I'll just think you a fool for it.

    People are executed in the U.S every day. Does this mean that America as a whole is evil and should be resisted or even attacked? Or does it mean that the death penalty should be opposed?

    Soulfire42 wrote:
    Racism and bigotry should not be tolerated... and that's EXACTLY what I'm saying it's time to fight. It's time to fight barbarism and people extending the tentacles of horrendous ideology.

    The death penalty is barbaric in America and in Iran, Iraq, and China. So maybe you should begin your righteous crusade at home by campaigning for an end to the death penalty in America.
  • Le sigh...

    I do not know how many times I can say this. I don't think all muslims are evil. I do think Islam has very dangerous tenets and that is the topic being discussed here. If you want to start a topic on Christianity and go off on that path, you are free to do so. That is not the point of THIS thread. Accept that or move on. I have absolutely no love of Christianity, but I can't seem to get it through to you that that is beside the point be addressed here. Yes, Christianity has done horrible things. Yes, Texas has done horrible things. Yes, horrible things happen. That is absolutely no defense, nor excuse, nor reason to tolerate what I have shown in the video or evidenced in abundance throughout this thread at this point. And that is the fact that there IS something wrong with at least SOME followers of ISLAM and that they are not simply a handful of whack-jobs. There IS something organized going on, it does involve at least several hundred people as evidenced throughout this thread and it is possible to evidence that it is indeed much more than even that. I will argue, happily so, that radicalized Islam is a threat to western norms and largely globally regarded human rights. However, I will also argue that radicalized Islam is not just 10 guys in a desert somewhere. There IS something more nefarious and potentially dangerous going on. Please understand that Westboro may be absolutely disgusting (and I agree that it is), but it is COMPLETELY beside the point to what is being discussed in this thread. Feel free to start a post on that stupid group and I'll happily join in with criticism of it. This isn't the thread for that though.

    I am not advocating further tolerance of barbarism. I am advocating drawing a line and making a stand against it. I am advocating not taking an apathetic and permissive stance toward barbarism and organized efforts to forward jihadi movements. I am advocating putting a stop to religious law which cannot be questioned or challenged because it comes from supposed divinity. I have provided visual and written evidence of a problem and a challenge to commonly accepted norms of humanity. If you want to demand my silence or want to ridicule me for taking a stand against it, so be it. I'll accept that and keep showing others evidence, insight and listening to information from as many sources as I can get my hands on, including people who rationally disagree.

    You want to constantly drag Christianity and America into a topic that isn't about them, instead start up a thread of your own on the topic. You want to berate me for not talking about American death penalties in a thread that isn't about American death penalties yet you don't want to seem to mention your own nation's lead in executions per day amongst all nations. Nonetheless, China's executions are not the topic of this thread. When I want to discuss Chinese or American executions, I'll either start a thread on them or look for an existing one. Try sticking to one topic at a time if any results are desired in conversation via the internet. Our exchange will be brief in the larger scheme of things, so focus is appropriate rather than throwing out every problem of the world and expecting a resolution or agreement in a forum thread.

    If you really think that American law is on par with Islamic shari law in terms of barbarism, start a topic on it. I think most would find it laughable, but you're free to do so. You'll probably read that as me saying American law is flawless and amazing, but I can assure you I don't think that. Nonetheless, I ask you to stick to the topic presented or create your own thread. You asked for evidence, I have provided some. I ask that you stay on topic which is Islam and sharia law and its potential for barbarism and growing influence around the world. If you don't want to discuss that and want to talk about Westboro, American executions, my racism or bigotry... start a new thread on such a topic and type away. Getting me to agree that something like Wesboro needs to be fought against has nothing to do with addressing the topic at hand in THIS thread.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Soulfire42 wrote:
    I am not trying to hatemonger or anything of the sort.

    But you are, unequivocally and disgustingly so. All I see in your posts is bigotry, hate and racism. Quite foul and not worth any 'discussion'.
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    I wonder if the families of this couple wish the state had executed this lovely citizen.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/ ... TL20110129

    We have a few people locked up that would nice to see them cease to exist.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Williams
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Olson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pickton

    ...and the list is endless of people who without a shadow of a doubt are guilty of horrendous crimes. As for the argument that the death penalty is barbaric, yeah right. These 4 individuals are locked up 23 hours a day in a cell the size of a closet, that is barbaric and inhuman, most people would go nuts locked up in a space that small for so many hours. I fail to see the problem if it's these type of animals, it's so obvious they are guilty.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Oh yeah in Canada, those 3 of those 4 POS get an automatic parole hearing after 25 years, every 2 years after that, so the families have to re live the horror these POS caused.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Let me try to rephrase some things in some more simplistic terms to hopefully show how stupid it is trying to label me the problem and of being a hatemonger, racist or bigot.

    The premise is that there are current members of the Islamic faith performing barbaric acts and working to expand the reach of barbaric sharia laws. I have stated that we must identify this enemy and work to stand our ground and fight against it in a variety of manners. This is necessary to support nearly universally agreed upon norms of humanity and human rights.

    I show indisputable evidence of at least hundreds of Islamic faith members stoning individuals to death. I provide evidence and links to entire investigative reports about the largest mosque in England serving as a platform to expand the teaching and reach of “radical” Islamic views. I make the claim that we must be wary and vigilant against permitting this to expand uncontested. I provide evidence that there is an organized effort to expand the reach of sharia law and its geographical spread.

    I also make the claim that the ideology of the Islamic faith often leads to the oppression of women in society and provide factual claims that practitioners of the muslim faith migrating to European nations has resulted in dramatic increases of crimes against women. I again make the claim that we should be wary and vigilant of such an ideology. I warn that excessive tolerance, apathy and inaction foster a permissive environment which makes such abuses and crimes against humanity much more likely to continue to happen and spread.

    I see it as further proof of my point that by illustrating this information, providing visual and written proof and stating that we should stand united against such barbarism, I am viewed by many seeking to be perceived as politically correct, to be the one who is the actual threat. They want me viewed as the racist, the bigot and the hatemonger for pointing out crimes against humanity being performed by participants of the Islamic faith which seem to rather directly stem from the ideology involved. The ideology involves unchallengeable decrees from religious leaders, primitive rule systems that exact abhorrent violence (stonings, beheadings, limb amputations, etc.) upon people who do not typically receive anything resembling a fair trial. They want the evidence presented to be seemingly ignored and to list other crimes or abuses by other groups as reasons to ignore those which are being presented factually here.

    My point is that we cannot permit political correctness, tolerance, desire for multiculturalism or diversity to become the ripe soil for barbaric ideologies and actions to take root and spread. I am just as firm a believer that the muslim victims being stoned to death, beheaded, or otherwise mutilated deserve defense and a united front of people saying that enough is enough as I believe any other group is. I refuse to sit idle and and not oppose this barbarism and ideology because it IS racist, it IS bigoted, it IS chauvinistic, it IS dangerous, it DOES lead to abhorrent actions done by large crowds of participants. It does lead to violence against women. There are groups organized with the desire to spread sharia law and to establish Islamic law far beyond its current reach. If you don’t believe this, then you didn’t look into much of what I have shared.

    So if you want to continue to call me a racist or a bigot or whatever for being willing to take a stand against this insanity, I really don’t care. Label me that all you want. In my opinion, you end up defending the indefensible. Do you really want to be on the side of the people stoning people to death for supposed adultery, and do you really want to support beheadings as law? Do you really think I’m a bigot or a racist for saying we ought not stand by and be permissive? I don’t care what color their skin is. I don’t care where they live. Wrong is wrong. If you want to call me “righteous” for believing it is necessary to fight this insanity, feel free.

    People on this board get all up in arms over things like the West Memphis 3 and perhaps rightfully so. However, as an issue of importance or an egregious abuse of law and humanity, I feel it pales in comparison to some of the things I have presented and there is no legitimate way of the WM3 issue expanding and causing further bloodshed and hardships for many people. The exact opposite is true of the issues I am bringing up in this thread. Factually, people are being stoned to death. Factually, sexual violence against women is on the rise when participants of this faith migrate to several European nations. Factually, there is an organized effort with financial backing to expand the reach and influence of sharia law throughout the world. How am I wrong for wanting to combat that? Is that the only issue in the world I want to combat? Nope, but it’s the issue this particular thread is about.

    If my desire to combat this makes you want to call me a racist, a bigot and a hatemonger, so be it. Guess you’ll just also have to ignore the fact that I support a Palestinian state, think that muslims are often unfairly mistreated, advocate working hard toward ending racism, support women’s rights issues, despise fox news, etc, etc, etc. But if you want to keep trying to force me into your more comfortable stereotypes to ignore the information I am presenting, there’s not much I can do about it.

    To counter any arguments I have made, I’ve seen nothing but people ignoring the information presented and instead bringing up other atrocities or problems that are not directly related to this topic. I grant that other atrocities and bad groups exist. That does nothing to counter any argument I am making. People may not want to believe there are organized and financed groups working to spread sharia law and similar insanity to the stoning video I presented. But I have given proof (if you watch the investigative reports or choose to do your own research) that it exists. Why wouldn’t we want to take a stand against that and how does wanting to take a stand against it make one a racist or a bigot?
  • And from another post around here that is relevant to this particular topic:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... order.html

    And just a start at what is possible to begin researching to see that something is amiss that needs to have a stand made against it (Iran condemns people to death for porn sites and "insulting the sanctity of Islam"):
    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1
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