I have not. But I look at stats...because they don't lie. The guy played on more winning teams than losing teams and he was 287-250 over his career. His longevity is impressive, but he was not a dominant pitcher. Steve Carlton, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, Nolan Ryan, Gaylord Perry, Catfish Hunter...those were the standouts (Hall of Famers) of that era.
I would vote Jack Morris in any day of the week over Blyleven. Who would you rather have on the mound in a big game? Jack.
"I'll ride the wave, where it takes me..."
"I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the in between is mine..."
Congrats to Bert. The pride of Zeist, Netherlands.
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
I have not. But I look at stats...because they don't lie. The guy played on more winning teams than losing teams and he was 287-250 over his career. His longevity is impressive, but he was not a dominant pitcher. Steve Carlton, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, Nolan Ryan, Gaylord Perry, Catfish Hunter...those were the standouts (Hall of Famers) of that era.
I would vote Jack Morris in any day of the week over Blyleven. Who would you rather have on the mound in a big game? Jack.
Jack Morris career WAR - 39.3
Bert Blyleven career WAR - 90.1
Morris also had one season with a WAR over 5. Blyleven had 9 such seasons
Have you ever read Rich Lederer's writing about Blyvelen? His arguments definitely swayed me into thinking he should be in.
is moose a HOF'ER? basically same numbers as blyvelen.
Great question. Forgot about him when I was mentioning Yankees in the MLB thread. In my mind absolutely. This is a great article from Joe Poz a couple years ago comparing Mussina to Juan Marichal. He'll get in.
Johnny Damon made this point. He has 270 wins (and I believe the best winning % of any pitcher with over 250) and pitched against the Jays the years they won the world series, against the Yankees dynasty and then against the Red Sox when they won. Pretty damn impressive.
Wins above replacement player. Fixer and Cliffy can explain it better than I can, but it's a powerful weapon to use in settling baseball debates.
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
Great question. Forgot about him when I was mentioning Yankees in the MLB thread. In my mind absolutely. This is a great article from Joe Poz a couple years ago comparing Mussina to Juan Marichal. He'll get in.
Johnny Damon made this point. He has 270 wins (and I believe the best winning % of any pitcher with over 250) and pitched against the Jays the years they won the world series, against the Yankees dynasty and then against the Red Sox when they won. Pretty damn impressive.
that is very impressive to do all that in the steroid era
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Wins Above Replacement, commonly known as WAR, is a sabermetric baseball statistic that is used to show how many more wins a player would give a team as opposed to a "replacement level", or minor league/bench player at that position.[1] While WAR values are scaled equally for pitchers and hitters, the result is calculated differently for pitchers versus position players, with position players using sabermetric stats for fielding and hitting, and pitchers using statistics related to Three true outcomes.
There is no clearly established formula for WAR. Sites that provide the statistic, such as Baseball Prospectus, Fangraphs, and Baseball Reference, all calculate it differently. However, all of these sites calculate the value of WAR using these principles, and each site publicly acknowledges how they calculate their individual WAR values.
What Baseball Fanatic Math Nerd on Cociane figured this out?
I don't think he should be in...but the 60 Shutouts is probably what got him in - that is impressive. But, guys like Seaver, Ryan, Carlton, Gibson, Marichal, Palmer, Perry they all had 50+ Shutouts...it was much more common back then because guys regularly threw Complete Games.
I just think it is a bit crazy that the guy got more and more votes as each year went on. The writers like some guys and they don't like others and that makes a huge difference. If any of these "Steroid Era" guys are banking on making the Hall of Fame - they are sorely mistaken.
"I'll ride the wave, where it takes me..."
"I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the in between is mine..."
Sorry but in my mind Blyleven is not a HOF pitcher. I loved the curve and he seems like a good guy. But his career win % of .534 is weak and he made a whopping two All Star games in 22 seasons. I know he didn't pitch for great teams but that's tough luck. His best seasons were in the early to mid 70's when hitting was down across the board. The only reason he's getting in is because the ballot is littered with steroid era guys and they needed to vote for someone. The HOF is sadly becoming irrelevant.
Also if he's getting in then why isn't Jack Morris? Better winning % and he pitched in a much more hitter friendly era. His last two seasons killed his career ERA but he was a better big game pitcher and he made five All Star games. His performance in Game 7 of the 91' series alone should put him in over Blyleven.
Great question. Forgot about him when I was mentioning Yankees in the MLB thread. In my mind absolutely. This is a great article from Joe Poz a couple years ago comparing Mussina to Juan Marichal. He'll get in.
Johnny Damon made this point. He has 270 wins (and I believe the best winning % of any pitcher with over 250) and pitched against the Jays the years they won the world series, against the Yankees dynasty and then against the Red Sox when they won. Pretty damn impressive.
that is very impressive to do all that in the steroid era
I've always thought Mussina is a Hall of Famer. I'd like to see Jeff Bagwell and Edgar Martinez get in. I'm sure if anyone who pitched against him on the Yankees from 1995-2000 had a vote, he'd get in.
And this is a pretty cool piece on hanging with Alomar the day he gets in:
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023 MSG 2024, MSG 2024 Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
Great question. Forgot about him when I was mentioning Yankees in the MLB thread. In my mind absolutely. This is a great article from Joe Poz a couple years ago comparing Mussina to Juan Marichal. He'll get in.
Johnny Damon made this point. He has 270 wins (and I believe the best winning % of any pitcher with over 250) and pitched against the Jays the years they won the world series, against the Yankees dynasty and then against the Red Sox when they won. Pretty damn impressive.
that is very impressive to do all that in the steroid era
I've always thought Mussina is a Hall of Famer. I'd like to see Jeff Bagwell and Edgar Martinez get in. I'm sure if anyone who pitched against him on the Yankees from 1995-2000 had a vote, he'd get in.
And this is a pretty cool piece on hanging with Alomar the day he gets in:
Nice piece ......and it sure hammers home the point Roberto should be going into the hall as a Jay!
Van 92.07.21 / Van 98.07.19 / Sea 98.07.22 / Tor 98.08.22 / Sea 00.11.06 / Van 03.05.30/ Van 05.09.02/ Gorge 06.07.22 & 23 / EV Van 08.04.02 / Tor 09.08.21 / Sea 09.09.21 & 22 / Van 09.09.25 / Van 11.09.25 / Van 13.12.04 / Pem 16.07.17 / Sea 18.08.10
I've always thought Mussina is a Hall of Famer. I'd like to see Jeff Bagwell and Edgar Martinez get in. I'm sure if anyone who pitched against him on the Yankees from 1995-2000 had a vote, he'd get in.
And this is a pretty cool piece on hanging with Alomar the day he gets in:
Sorry but in my mind Blyleven is not a HOF pitcher. I loved the curve and he seems like a good guy. But his career win % of .534 is weak and he made a whopping two All Star games in 22 seasons. I know he didn't pitch for great teams but that's tough luck. His best seasons were in the early to mid 70's when hitting was down across the board. The only reason he's getting in is because the ballot is littered with steroid era guys and they needed to vote for someone. The HOF is sadly becoming irrelevant.
Also if he's getting in then why isn't Jack Morris? Better winning % and he pitched in a much more hitter friendly era. His last two seasons killed his career ERA but he was a better big game pitcher and he made five All Star games. His performance in Game 7 of the 91' series alone should put him in over Blyleven.
Amen, brother. I agree completely.
"I'll ride the wave, where it takes me..."
"I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the in between is mine..."
i just have a hard time believing bagwell didn't do steroids
i think the hard part about all of this is that mlb never tested and it wasn't against policy during that time ... so, when people start talking about this guy never testing positive ... they never mention that they were never tested period ... you can't test positive if you haven't been tested ...
Comments
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
I would vote Jack Morris in any day of the week over Blyleven. Who would you rather have on the mound in a big game? Jack.
"I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the in between is mine..."
Jack Morris career WAR - 39.3
Bert Blyleven career WAR - 90.1
Morris also had one season with a WAR over 5. Blyleven had 9 such seasons
I hope you are kidding
Great question. Forgot about him when I was mentioning Yankees in the MLB thread. In my mind absolutely. This is a great article from Joe Poz a couple years ago comparing Mussina to Juan Marichal. He'll get in.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/w ... .marichal/
Johnny Damon made this point. He has 270 wins (and I believe the best winning % of any pitcher with over 250) and pitched against the Jays the years they won the world series, against the Yankees dynasty and then against the Red Sox when they won. Pretty damn impressive.
Wins above replacement. A WAR of 2 is league average. A WAR of 5 is considered all star level.
Morris was an average pitcher that had some success in big games. vastly overrated player that couldn't hold blyleven's jock strap
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Wins Above Replacement, commonly known as WAR, is a sabermetric baseball statistic that is used to show how many more wins a player would give a team as opposed to a "replacement level", or minor league/bench player at that position.[1] While WAR values are scaled equally for pitchers and hitters, the result is calculated differently for pitchers versus position players, with position players using sabermetric stats for fielding and hitting, and pitchers using statistics related to Three true outcomes.
There is no clearly established formula for WAR. Sites that provide the statistic, such as Baseball Prospectus, Fangraphs, and Baseball Reference, all calculate it differently. However, all of these sites calculate the value of WAR using these principles, and each site publicly acknowledges how they calculate their individual WAR values.
What Baseball Fanatic Math Nerd on Cociane figured this out?
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
I just think it is a bit crazy that the guy got more and more votes as each year went on. The writers like some guys and they don't like others and that makes a huge difference. If any of these "Steroid Era" guys are banking on making the Hall of Fame - they are sorely mistaken.
"I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the in between is mine..."
Also if he's getting in then why isn't Jack Morris? Better winning % and he pitched in a much more hitter friendly era. His last two seasons killed his career ERA but he was a better big game pitcher and he made five All Star games. His performance in Game 7 of the 91' series alone should put him in over Blyleven.
I've always thought Mussina is a Hall of Famer. I'd like to see Jeff Bagwell and Edgar Martinez get in. I'm sure if anyone who pitched against him on the Yankees from 1995-2000 had a vote, he'd get in.
And this is a pretty cool piece on hanging with Alomar the day he gets in:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnist ... -1.2589502
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
Nice piece ......and it sure hammers home the point Roberto should be going into the hall as a Jay!
i just have a hard time believing bagwell didn't do steroids
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Amen, brother. I agree completely.
"I know I was born and I know that I'll die, the in between is mine..."
i think the hard part about all of this is that mlb never tested and it wasn't against policy during that time ... so, when people start talking about this guy never testing positive ... they never mention that they were never tested period ... you can't test positive if you haven't been tested ...