That is the difference between this and guns. Or comparing it to a child molester. The guns are not living or at risk to be put down. Dogs are being put down everyday.
But there are plenty of kids in bad foster homes or whatever... should someone who is a convicted child abuser be able to adopt one of them because he might be rehabilitated and could give them a better home?
No, because that is not the child's only shot at life. They won't be given a lethal injection if they don't find a home.
Also, child abuse is way more complicated, higher stakes, and harder to recognize/easier to hide. It will be obvious as to whether the animal is treated well (assuming the do monthly checks as I stated before).
As for Vick "paying his debt to society" - fundamentally I don't agree with it. He has done everything that the courts required, and I commend him for that effort. But his prison time doesn't void any of the suffering those aniamls went through.
At what point did America go from being a nation of second chances, where people are given a chance to redeem themselves, to a nation where if you make a mistake you're fucked for the rest of your life?
I guess you all think it's absolutely impossible for someone to learn from their mistakes, and come out of a dark period in their life a better person, right?
I'm not justifying his actions - what he did was wrong and repulsive - I just think it's interesting that so many people immediately assume every person who makes a mistake is immediately beyond redemption. It's the old "One strike and you're out" way of thinking. I heard from a lot of people when Vick returned to play that he should never be allowed around animals again because "he hadn't proven to them" that he was reformed. When I asked them what proof they were looking for, to a man they were unable to answer.
So, I'll ask you guys:
1. Do you think people who make serious mistakes are capable of learning and maturing and realizing that their behavior was wrong?
2. If so, how should they prove that to you (in a manner that you wouldn't write off as "an obvious PR stunt")?
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
No, because that is not the child's only shot at life. They won't be given a lethal injection if they don't find a home.
Also, child abuse is way more complicated, higher stakes, and harder to recognize/easier to hide. It will be obvious as to whether the animal is treated well (assuming the do monthly checks as I stated before).
As for Vick "paying his debt to society" - fundamentally I don't agree with it. He has done everything that the courts required, and I commend him for that effort. But his prison time doesn't void any of the suffering those aniamls went through.
Vick is currently volunteering some of his free time to educate young kids on animal abuse- And this is not part of his probation.
Nothing will void the suffering, but when is it ok to forgive(in this case)? Let's say he gives back- and rescues 1000 suffering animals-would he then be given a second chance? He's already contributed thousands of dollars, contributed a lot of his time, and also brought a whole lot of awareness to the issue.
Maybe the courts could ok him for a gold fish or something..... :roll:
At what point did America go from being a nation of second chances, where people are given a chance to redeem themselves, to a nation where if you make a mistake you're fucked for the rest of your life?
Oh please. Fucked for life? He has a pretty good job and earning pretty good pay. Great, making the most of his second chance. But he killed dogs for fun...no more dogs for him and let his kids wishes for a dog remind him everyday of what he did so that he continues to work hard at being a better person.
At what point did America go from being a nation of second chances, where people are given a chance to redeem themselves, to a nation where if you make a mistake you're fucked for the rest of your life?
Oh please. Fucked for life? He has a pretty good job and earning pretty good pay. Great, making the most of his second chance. But he killed dogs for fun...no more dogs for him and let his kids wishes for a dog remind him everyday of what he did so that he continues to work hard at being a better person.
So I take it your answers to my questions are:
1. No.
2. N/A
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
At what point did America go from being a nation of second chances, where people are given a chance to redeem themselves, to a nation where if you make a mistake you're fucked for the rest of your life?
I guess you all think it's absolutely impossible for someone to learn from their mistakes, and come out of a dark period in their life a better person, right?
I'm not justifying his actions - what he did was wrong and repulsive - I just think it's interesting that so many people immediately assume every person who makes a mistake is immediately beyond redemption. It's the old "One strike and you're out" way of thinking. I heard from a lot of people when Vick returned to play that he should never be allowed around animals again because "he hadn't proven to them" that he was reformed. When I asked them what proof they were looking for, to a man they were unable to answer.
So, I'll ask you guys:
1. Do you think people who make serious mistakes are capable of learning and maturing and realizing that their behavior was wrong?
2. If so, how should they prove that to you (in a manner that you wouldn't write off as "an obvious PR stunt")?
People tend to care more about pets then other people, in my opinion. He would have been better off sexually assaulting someone then killing dogs. Actually, he would have been better off killing a person, just ask Donte Stallworth.
I recall the national outcry lasting about 32 hours when Donte returned to football after mowing a pedestrian down while returning from a nightclub. And Leonard Little of the Rams killed a mother in a DUI Crash, got community service, was arrested again in 2004 for DUI, was found not guilty after failing 3 field tests, and went on to have a long NFL career that ended last year with nary a protest.
Don't even get me started on Stabby Lewis, who is a featured star in the NFL's advertising campaign.
Vick is currently volunteering some of his free time to educate young kids on animal abuse- And this is not part of his probation.
You sure that was his idea and not his PR person, agent, or even the Philadelphia Eagles idea/demand?
I can't prove that there is a motive, can you?
All I know is that he doesn't have to volunteer this additional time- He's working with young kids, who are probably growing up in an environment similar to the one he grew up in.
The Animal subject should be one he should be far far far away from, but he isn't.
The stadium is selling out, his jersey is selling well, ratings are high for the networks, he'll probably win the MVP, probably bring a championship to the city, and he'll probably get a huge contract..... I don't see what else he wants? Even animal rights organizations are proud of the work he is doing.......
I don't know what else to say....... look into your black heart ( ) and see if there is any room for love and forgiveness.
All I can say, as an animal lover, is that I am willing to let him get back into the mix. Heck- I'd even let him babysit my dog.
I don't think he should be able to have a dog. Just because he wants one isn't a good enough reason. You don't have to have a dog just because you want one.
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
I don't think he should be able to have a dog. Just because he wants one isn't a good enough reason. You don't have to have a dog just because you want one.
so how does this work? He should be able to get one under what conditions?
As someone employed by the wonderful judicial system, I'd say there is a vast difference in comparing a child molestor to someone who was convicted of animal cruelty. Both wrong, yes. However, the severity of the offence differs. Not saying I condone what Vick did, it actually makes me sick, but the purpose of our system is to attempt to rehabilitate, denunciate, to apply retribution, and to reintegrate the offenders into the community. Now depending on the offence, once again, sometimes the offender is so fargone, there is really no chance of rehabilition and in essence they strictly fall under the retribution category. In this case, I think its fair to say that people do things sometimes that are incredibly stupid and selfish and harmful to others, and the proper sentence was handed to Vick in this case.
I can say, in Canada, someone convicted of an act of animal abuse would BARELY get a conditional sentence of probation, so to me Vick did his time and when the appropriate time comes he should be able to prove that he is in fact rehabilitated. As someone said, this dog would be probably be treated better than most people do.
Also, on a sidenote I have never heard of a Dog Prohibition - Weapons Prohibition/Driving Prohibition yes, but never a 'puppy prohibition'.
Michael Vick, who was banned by the judge who sentenced him on dogfighting charges from ever owning another dog, says he misses being a dog owner and would like to have one as a pet someday.
The Philadelphia Eagles quarterback, interviewed by NBC News and the website TheGrio.com, said he and his family miss having a dog. He said he wants to show people that he can be a responsible pet owner and that he would not take the opportunity for granted.
"I would love to get another dog in the future. I think it would be a big step for me in the rehabilitation process," Vick said, according to NBC News and TheGrio.com. The full interview was scheduled to be shown on TheGrio.com on Wednesday.
On Tuesday at a Philadelphia-area charter school, where Vick was speaking out against dogfighting, he was asked if he would return to the Eagles next season.
"I would hope so," Vick said, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer. "A lot of things have to happen. A lot of things have to take place. ... But hopefully I'm a Philadelphia Eagle next season."
Vick has led the Eagles to a share of the NFC East division lead and resurrected a career many thought was all but over after he went to federal prison for funding a dogfighting ring. The operation trained pit bulls to fight and killed dogs that did not perform well in training sessions.
Vick told NBC News and TheGrio.com. that he wants to show that that part of his past is behind him.
"I think just to have a pet in my household and to show people that I genuinely care, and my love and my passion for animals; I think it would be outstanding," Vick said in the interview. "If I ever have the opportunity again I will never take it for granted.
"I miss having a dog right now. I wish I could. My daughters miss having one, and that's the hardest thing: Telling them that we can't have one because of my actions," Vick said in the interview.
i'm not sure what is going down with your copy and paste but what you have pasted does not match what the link says. maybe it's been edited since you originally posted it :? Vick has not been told he can never own a dog. what he has been told is that he can't while on probation.
you pasted this
Michael Vick, who was banned by the judge who sentenced him on dogfighting charges from ever owning another dog
the link actually says
Michael Vick, who was banned by the judge who sentenced him on dogfighting charges from owning another dog while on probation,
there is also this bit not in your paste.
As part of Vick's probation, he can't buy, sell or own a dog.
now from what i understand he will be able to own a dog at the end of his probabation in May 2012. so why is he making such a big fuss about it now? he's done the crime and been given a punishment that the courts deemed suitable. what makes him so special that he should not have to serve out the terms of his probation? 2012 is not that far away.
maybe he likes the attention.
proving he is rehabilitated, giving him a second chance and all the other things being discussed here are not relevant if you look at what the link actually says, because come 2012 he gets to own a dog if he wants one.
rehabilitated or not he gets his second chance right?
2012. not that many sleeps Mr Vick. i'm sure you will manage without a dog until then.
Michael Vick, who was banned by the judge who sentenced him on dogfighting charges from ever owning another dog, says he misses being a dog owner and would like to have one as a pet someday.
The Philadelphia Eagles quarterback, interviewed by NBC News and the website TheGrio.com, said he and his family miss having a dog. He said he wants to show people that he can be a responsible pet owner and that he would not take the opportunity for granted.
"I would love to get another dog in the future. I think it would be a big step for me in the rehabilitation process," Vick said, according to NBC News and TheGrio.com. The full interview was scheduled to be shown on TheGrio.com on Wednesday.
On Tuesday at a Philadelphia-area charter school, where Vick was speaking out against dogfighting, he was asked if he would return to the Eagles next season.
"I would hope so," Vick said, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer. "A lot of things have to happen. A lot of things have to take place. ... But hopefully I'm a Philadelphia Eagle next season."
Vick has led the Eagles to a share of the NFC East division lead and resurrected a career many thought was all but over after he went to federal prison for funding a dogfighting ring. The operation trained pit bulls to fight and killed dogs that did not perform well in training sessions.
Vick told NBC News and TheGrio.com. that he wants to show that that part of his past is behind him.
"I think just to have a pet in my household and to show people that I genuinely care, and my love and my passion for animals; I think it would be outstanding," Vick said in the interview. "If I ever have the opportunity again I will never take it for granted.
"I miss having a dog right now. I wish I could. My daughters miss having one, and that's the hardest thing: Telling them that we can't have one because of my actions," Vick said in the interview.
i'm not sure what is going down with your copy and paste but what you have pasted does not match what the link says. maybe it's been edited since you originally posted it :? Vick has not been told he can never own a dog. what he has been told is that he can't while on probation.
you pasted this
Michael Vick, who was banned by the judge who sentenced him on dogfighting charges from ever owning another dog
the link actually says
Michael Vick, who was banned by the judge who sentenced him on dogfighting charges from owning another dog while on probation,
there is also this bit not in your paste.
As part of Vick's probation, he can't buy, sell or own a dog.
now from what i understand he will be able to own a dog at the end of his probabation in May 2012. so why is he making such a big fuss about it now? he's done the crime and been given a punishment that the courts deemed suitable. what makes him so special that he should not have to serve out the terms of his probation? 2012 is not that far away.
maybe he likes the attention.
proving he is rehabilitated, giving him a second chance and all the other things being discussed here are not relevant if you look at what the link actually says, because come 2012 he gets to own a dog if he wants one.
rehabilitated or not he gets his second chance right?
2012. not that many sleeps Mr Vick. i'm sure you will manage without a dog until then.
Comments
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
No, because that is not the child's only shot at life. They won't be given a lethal injection if they don't find a home.
Also, child abuse is way more complicated, higher stakes, and harder to recognize/easier to hide. It will be obvious as to whether the animal is treated well (assuming the do monthly checks as I stated before).
As for Vick "paying his debt to society" - fundamentally I don't agree with it. He has done everything that the courts required, and I commend him for that effort. But his prison time doesn't void any of the suffering those aniamls went through.
I guess you all think it's absolutely impossible for someone to learn from their mistakes, and come out of a dark period in their life a better person, right?
I'm not justifying his actions - what he did was wrong and repulsive - I just think it's interesting that so many people immediately assume every person who makes a mistake is immediately beyond redemption. It's the old "One strike and you're out" way of thinking. I heard from a lot of people when Vick returned to play that he should never be allowed around animals again because "he hadn't proven to them" that he was reformed. When I asked them what proof they were looking for, to a man they were unable to answer.
So, I'll ask you guys:
1. Do you think people who make serious mistakes are capable of learning and maturing and realizing that their behavior was wrong?
2. If so, how should they prove that to you (in a manner that you wouldn't write off as "an obvious PR stunt")?
Vick is currently volunteering some of his free time to educate young kids on animal abuse- And this is not part of his probation.
Nothing will void the suffering, but when is it ok to forgive(in this case)? Let's say he gives back- and rescues 1000 suffering animals-would he then be given a second chance? He's already contributed thousands of dollars, contributed a lot of his time, and also brought a whole lot of awareness to the issue.
Maybe the courts could ok him for a gold fish or something..... :roll:
Oh please. Fucked for life? He has a pretty good job and earning pretty good pay. Great, making the most of his second chance. But he killed dogs for fun...no more dogs for him and let his kids wishes for a dog remind him everyday of what he did so that he continues to work hard at being a better person.
You sure that was his idea and not his PR person, agent, or even the Philadelphia Eagles idea/demand?
So I take it your answers to my questions are:
1. No.
2. N/A
I recall the national outcry lasting about 32 hours when Donte returned to football after mowing a pedestrian down while returning from a nightclub. And Leonard Little of the Rams killed a mother in a DUI Crash, got community service, was arrested again in 2004 for DUI, was found not guilty after failing 3 field tests, and went on to have a long NFL career that ended last year with nary a protest.
Don't even get me started on Stabby Lewis, who is a featured star in the NFL's advertising campaign.
I can't prove that there is a motive, can you?
All I know is that he doesn't have to volunteer this additional time- He's working with young kids, who are probably growing up in an environment similar to the one he grew up in.
The Animal subject should be one he should be far far far away from, but he isn't.
The stadium is selling out, his jersey is selling well, ratings are high for the networks, he'll probably win the MVP, probably bring a championship to the city, and he'll probably get a huge contract..... I don't see what else he wants? Even animal rights organizations are proud of the work he is doing.......
I don't know what else to say....... look into your black heart (
All I can say, as an animal lover, is that I am willing to let him get back into the mix. Heck- I'd even let him babysit my dog.
I believe he never would of stopped ...
If he survives he can own a Pekinese.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
so how does this work? He should be able to get one under what conditions?
Man I heard he once had some kind of STI .... is that safe for the doggies?
That sounds lethal ....some serious torcher.
I can say, in Canada, someone convicted of an act of animal abuse would BARELY get a conditional sentence of probation, so to me Vick did his time and when the appropriate time comes he should be able to prove that he is in fact rehabilitated. As someone said, this dog would be probably be treated better than most people do.
Also, on a sidenote I have never heard of a Dog Prohibition - Weapons Prohibition/Driving Prohibition yes, but never a 'puppy prohibition'.
Just my .02
i'm not sure what is going down with your copy and paste but what you have pasted does not match what the link says. maybe it's been edited since you originally posted it :? Vick has not been told he can never own a dog. what he has been told is that he can't while on probation.
you pasted this
Michael Vick, who was banned by the judge who sentenced him on dogfighting charges from ever owning another dog
the link actually says
Michael Vick, who was banned by the judge who sentenced him on dogfighting charges from owning another dog while on probation,
there is also this bit not in your paste.
As part of Vick's probation, he can't buy, sell or own a dog.
now from what i understand he will be able to own a dog at the end of his probabation in May 2012. so why is he making such a big fuss about it now? he's done the crime and been given a punishment that the courts deemed suitable. what makes him so special that he should not have to serve out the terms of his probation? 2012 is not that far away.
maybe he likes the attention.
proving he is rehabilitated, giving him a second chance and all the other things being discussed here are not relevant if you look at what the link actually says, because come 2012 he gets to own a dog if he wants one.
rehabilitated or not he gets his second chance right?
2012. not that many sleeps Mr Vick. i'm sure you will manage without a dog until then.
weird.
nice catch TA.
fuck vick and his want to own and control another dog....
a dog would not let him own another dog, so why would a human or many humans allow it?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
finally, something gimme and i agree on. fuck michael vick. fuck him with a big rubber dick. no lube.