There has never really been a musician before of since who has been that huge and killed himself so bluntly and directly. No band or musician really equals the impact at the time of Nirvana and Kurt. No equals at all.
Sorry my friend, but I respectfully disagree. Around the second half of the 1970's, there was a band called Joy Division and a guy named Ian Curtis (the singer of the aforementioned band).
and i respectfully disagree with you. i know both joy division and nirvana, having been there both times and id like to see you explain your thinking that ian curtis was at the time of his death as big as kurt cobain and that joy division were as huge as nirvana were at the time of curtis's death. ill admit imo closer is pretty much a perfect album and no doubt it would have catapulted joy division higher than ian would have been comfortable with had he lived, but at the time of his death no way was joy division in the same position as nirvana were at the time of kurts death.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"Makes much more sense to live in the present tense"
Mansfield 08 1
Boston 2010
Montreal 2011
EV Prov 11
Worcester 1 13
Worcester 2 13
Hartford 13 Boston 16 - 1 Boston 16 - 2 Boston 18 - 1 Boston 18 -2 MSG 24 - 1 Boston 24 -1 Boston 24 -2
No way was joy division in the same position as nirvana were at the time of kurts death.
Probably, you misunderstood because I never implied anything like this. I just said that there was also another famous person who committed suicide while he was at the top point of his career.
Athens 2006 / Milton Keynes 2014 / London 1&2 2022 / Seattle 1&2 2024 / Dublin 2024 / Manchester 2024
Everybody has an opinion on polls like this. When I hear greatest musician, I assume that means a musician with a great deal of technical ability. So I wouldn't have Kurt, John or Paul on the list. Any 12 year old can play the Nirvana Catalogue on guitar. Kurt made a living by ripping off The Pixies, and he would be the first person to tell you. George Martin(The 5th Beatle) had as much to do with The Beatles sound as anybody. The Beatles didn't even play any of their complex songs live(or anything live after 1966). We all have our favorites. The Beatles were great songwriters and The White Album is one of my favorite albums. Great musicians like Miles Davis and Bela Fleck would cry reading this thread.
Paul is a fabulous musician. Stuart Suttcliffe is the 5th Beatle(if not then Pete Best).
Kurt is hugely over-rated.
Only a bunch of bleeding heart Pearl Jam fans would find an excuse for his suicide. Plenty of people suffer from mental illness and depression, they don't all chose to be drug addicted pussies and take the easy way out. All I can attest to is Kurt will be remembered as one of the biggest douche bags ever. Maybe if I was an immature adolescent I would put him on a pedestal. The rest of the real world will always remember him as the druggie that abandoned his family.
Everybody has an opinion on polls like this. When I hear greatest musician, I assume that means a musician with a great deal of technical ability. So I wouldn't have Kurt, John or Paul on the list. Any 12 year old can play the Nirvana Catalogue on guitar. Kurt made a living by ripping off The Pixies, and he would be the first person to tell you. George Martin(The 5th Beatle) had as much to do with The Beatles sound as anybody. The Beatles didn't even play any of their complex songs live(or anything live after 1966). We all have our favorites. The Beatles were great songwriters and The White Album is one of my favorite albums. Great musicians like Miles Davis and Bela Fleck would cry reading this thread.
Paul is a fabulous musician. Stuart Suttcliffe is the 5th Beatle(if not then Pete Best).
Kurt is hugely over-rated.
Only a bunch of bleeding heart Pearl Jam fans would find an excuse for his suicide. Plenty of people suffer from mental illness and depression, they don't all chose to be drug addicted pussies and take the easy way out. All I can attest to is Kurt will be remembered as one of the biggest douche bags ever. Maybe if I was an immature adolescent I would put him on a pedestal. The rest of the real world will always remember him as the druggie that abandoned his family.
And it really pisses me off when i see top 100 guitar players in history and kurt cobain is number 11!!???!!??
What the fuck is that? last time i checked kurt cobain was NOT better than jeff beck or steve vai....
"Makes much more sense to live in the present tense"
Mansfield 08 1
Boston 2010
Montreal 2011
EV Prov 11
Worcester 1 13
Worcester 2 13
Hartford 13 Boston 16 - 1 Boston 16 - 2 Boston 18 - 1 Boston 18 -2 MSG 24 - 1 Boston 24 -1 Boston 24 -2
The only thing I think of with Cobain is the fact that he was a coward who killed himself and left a wife and daughter behind.
Sure, I'll get right on that.
I wasn't trying to start a big debate or anything. That's just my opinion. I just don't see how people can defend a guy who took his own life and left a wife and baby daughter behind. But, that's just me.
Only a bunch of bleeding heart Pearl Jam fans would find an excuse for his suicide. Plenty of people suffer from mental illness and depression, they don't all chose to be drug addicted pussies and take the easy way out. All I can attest to is Kurt will be remembered as one of the biggest douche bags ever. Maybe if I was an immature adolescent I would put him on a pedestal. The rest of the real world will always remember him as the druggie that abandoned his family.
I have to disagree with you.
Just because people kill themselves, they shouldn't be seen as abandoning people or being a coward. They just made a choice and I don't think that anyone can judge Kurt because of it, as no one knows how he was feeling at the time and most people wouldn't have understood him. He obviously was suffering by that point and felt alone or wanted to end his life for whatever reason. Suicide isn't an "easy way out", it takes guts and this may sound wierd, but courage. It's sad and frustrating that people choose to kill themselves, but their lives shouldn't be written off just because of it.
To take drugs is a choice but to become ADDICTED isn't. No one wants that so to say that he was a "drug addicted pussy" is pretty ignorant imo.
Sorry don't want to have a rant or look aggressive, but I can't stand it when people say suicide is an easy option. And when it comes to people who you don't even know, really none of us can say much or judge it can we?
Back to topic: Nirvana and Kurt Cobain's musicianship shouldn't be judged by how you feel about Kurt's suicide.
Everytime someone mentions Kurt Cobain or Nirvana, everyone seems to focus on his death and no one just thinks about the music, about what really matters.
okay, rant over
sorry
The only thing I think of with Cobain is the fact that he was a coward who killed himself and left a wife and daughter behind.
Sure, I'll get right on that.
I wasn't trying to start a big debate or anything. That's just my opinion. I just don't see how people can defend a guy who took his own life and left a wife and baby daughter behind. But, that's just me.
Saying that Kurt was a good musician isn't the same as defending his suicide.
The two things are completely separate
woah, i feel so aggressive when i type stuff like that
so i'll add this >
to make it less serious
Everybody has an opinion on polls like this. When I hear greatest musician, I assume that means a musician with a great deal of technical ability. So I wouldn't have Kurt, John or Paul on the list. Any 12 year old can play the Nirvana Catalogue on guitar. Kurt made a living by ripping off The Pixies, and he would be the first person to tell you. George Martin(The 5th Beatle) had as much to do with The Beatles sound as anybody. The Beatles didn't even play any of their complex songs live(or anything live after 1966). We all have our favorites. The Beatles were great songwriters and The White Album is one of my favorite albums. Great musicians like Miles Davis and Bela Fleck would cry reading this thread.
Paul is a fabulous musician. Stuart Suttcliffe is the 5th Beatle(if not then Pete Best).
Kurt is hugely over-rated.
Only a bunch of bleeding heart Pearl Jam fans would find an excuse for his suicide. Plenty of people suffer from mental illness and depression, they don't all chose to be drug addicted pussies and take the easy way out. All I can attest to is Kurt will be remembered as one of the biggest douche bags ever. Maybe if I was an immature adolescent I would put him on a pedestal. The rest of the real world will always remember him as the druggie that abandoned his family.
Wow. I think your are a little mixed up. Have you ever heard of compassion?
Cobain is in no way a GREAT musician, but he was pretty good. His death, while tragic, made him an everlasting star like Morrison, and Hendrix.
Lets let the guy RIP.
Cheers
Light green to green, dark green, brown..
Every life is falling down
Brown to black, it's coming back
Dies to be part of the ground
Seed to seedling, root to stem
Lets face it, whether it be Kurt or Ian, the fact they killed themselves doesn't have anything to do with them being good or not. Neither of them would exist if it wasn't for musicians like The Beatles or Elvis. Mind you, they wouldn't exist if it wasn't for people like Leadbelly and Robert Johnson so I think music goes a hell of alot further back then Kurt and Ian.
My Mother used to be a grief councellor for families of those people who suicided and without going into it too much, there are alot of factors to be considered, it's not just cut and dry. Many of those people are not thinking straight, have physical problems and/or are wrought with depression. I mean look at Kurt, he had awful stomach ulcers that plagued him everyday and Ian had epilepsy (something I have also) which he was embarrased of and feared. So it's never black and white and noone should judge unless they've walked a mile in their shoes.
“ "Thank you Palestrina. It’s a wonderful evening, it’s great to be here and I wanna dedicate you a super sexy song." " (last words of Mark Sandman of Morphine)
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
You're paraphrasing me. I said much of his material was mediocre; not that he was mediocre as a musician (or a musian ). Seriously: Kiss Kiss Molly's Lips... :roll: ...
just so you know kurt didnt even write mollys lips. its a vaselines song. if youre gonna bag him for his songwriting as least bag him for a song he actually wrote. :roll:
Fine, sue me. I'm done with this thread. People go crazy about this topic.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
The only thing I think of with Cobain is the fact that he was a coward who killed himself and left a wife and daughter behind.
Sure, I'll get right on that.
I wasn't trying to start a big debate or anything. That's just my opinion. I just don't see how people can defend a guy who took his own life and left a wife and baby daughter behind. But, that's just me.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Only a bunch of bleeding heart Pearl Jam fans would find an excuse for his suicide. Plenty of people suffer from mental illness and depression, they don't all chose to be drug addicted pussies and take the easy way out. All I can attest to is Kurt will be remembered as one of the biggest douche bags ever. Maybe if I was an immature adolescent I would put him on a pedestal. The rest of the real world will always remember him as the druggie that abandoned his family.
actually, most of the world remembers him the same as every other story that ends in suicide: tragic. not anger. I put him on a pedestal because of his songwriting, not because he was some sort of martyr for my teenage disaffection.
yes, plenty of people suffer from depression. not all choose to be drug addicted. but not all people choose to get stomach illnesses that cause them to suffer from pain so intense he had no other choice but to self-medicate. doctors took a long time in diagnosing and treating the problem. unfortunately, they took too long.
judge much? jesus.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
You're paraphrasing me. I said much of his material was mediocre; not that he was mediocre as a musician (or a musian ). Seriously: Kiss Kiss Molly's Lips... :roll: ...
just so you know kurt didnt even write mollys lips. its a vaselines song. if youre gonna bag him for his songwriting as least bag him for a song he actually wrote. :roll:
Fine, sue me. I'm done with this thread. People go crazy about this topic.
dont be like that.
you cited a song cobain didnt write as an example of his alleged crapola songwriting skills. all i did was point out that cobain didnt write it and suggested next time go afer afer him for a song he did write. imagine if someone accused vedder of writing such a shitty song as last kiss. theyd get jumped on for being ill informed and most likely be thrown out of the 10club.
Post edited by catefrances on
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you cited a song cobain didnt write as an example of his alleged crapola songwriting skills. all i did was point out that cobain didnt write it and suggested next time go afer afer him for a song he did write. imagine if someone accused vedder of writing such a shitty song as last kiss. theyd get jumped on for being ill informed and most likely be thrown out of the 10club.
Wait, Eddie didn't write that song???
It's all good. I'll brush up on my Nirvana history this weekend.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I enjoyed Nirvana when they came out and I still will listen to them when they come on the radio however, I rarely play their CD's.
As far a being a musician, isn't he self proclaimed crappy guitar player and who usually spent the 5-10 minutes before the take writing the actual lyrics for the song?
I mean, he had excellent timing and the chord progression and how it resolves (or doesn't resolve pretty cool) but he is not what I think of as a good musician, maybe his voice of his generation at a time that needed one.
As long as there was Hendrix or Lennon or a Gilmour/Waters... I think not.
I still turn his songs up when they come on the radio.
There quite a few songwriters better than Kurt Cobain and hundreds of better guitar players, but what he did that was great was help bring honest musicianship into the limelight at a time when phoniness reigned supreme. I still listen to Nirvana from time to time, and it's Kurt's personality that makes it interesting... there's catchy riffs and melodies, which are important, but it's the attitude that matters most... and that crazy fucking voice of his.
Listening to Incesticide right now. This shit is clearly fucking awesome.
Comments
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
and i respectfully disagree with you. i know both joy division and nirvana, having been there both times and id like to see you explain your thinking that ian curtis was at the time of his death as big as kurt cobain and that joy division were as huge as nirvana were at the time of curtis's death. ill admit imo closer is pretty much a perfect album and no doubt it would have catapulted joy division higher than ian would have been comfortable with had he lived, but at the time of his death no way was joy division in the same position as nirvana were at the time of kurts death.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Mansfield 08 1
Boston 2010
Montreal 2011
EV Prov 11
Worcester 1 13
Worcester 2 13
Hartford 13
Boston 16 - 1
Boston 16 - 2
Boston 18 - 1
Boston 18 -2
MSG 24 - 1
Boston 24 -1
Boston 24 -2
+1
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Kurt is hugely over-rated.
Only a bunch of bleeding heart Pearl Jam fans would find an excuse for his suicide. Plenty of people suffer from mental illness and depression, they don't all chose to be drug addicted pussies and take the easy way out. All I can attest to is Kurt will be remembered as one of the biggest douche bags ever. Maybe if I was an immature adolescent I would put him on a pedestal. The rest of the real world will always remember him as the druggie that abandoned his family.
What the fuck is that? last time i checked kurt cobain was NOT better than jeff beck or steve vai....
Mansfield 08 1
Boston 2010
Montreal 2011
EV Prov 11
Worcester 1 13
Worcester 2 13
Hartford 13
Boston 16 - 1
Boston 16 - 2
Boston 18 - 1
Boston 18 -2
MSG 24 - 1
Boston 24 -1
Boston 24 -2
Sure, I'll get right on that.
I wasn't trying to start a big debate or anything. That's just my opinion. I just don't see how people can defend a guy who took his own life and left a wife and baby daughter behind. But, that's just me.
I have to disagree with you.
Just because people kill themselves, they shouldn't be seen as abandoning people or being a coward. They just made a choice and I don't think that anyone can judge Kurt because of it, as no one knows how he was feeling at the time and most people wouldn't have understood him. He obviously was suffering by that point and felt alone or wanted to end his life for whatever reason. Suicide isn't an "easy way out", it takes guts and this may sound wierd, but courage. It's sad and frustrating that people choose to kill themselves, but their lives shouldn't be written off just because of it.
To take drugs is a choice but to become ADDICTED isn't. No one wants that so to say that he was a "drug addicted pussy" is pretty ignorant imo.
Sorry don't want to have a rant or look aggressive, but I can't stand it when people say suicide is an easy option. And when it comes to people who you don't even know, really none of us can say much or judge it can we?
Back to topic: Nirvana and Kurt Cobain's musicianship shouldn't be judged by how you feel about Kurt's suicide.
Everytime someone mentions Kurt Cobain or Nirvana, everyone seems to focus on his death and no one just thinks about the music, about what really matters.
okay, rant over
sorry
Saying that Kurt was a good musician isn't the same as defending his suicide.
The two things are completely separate
woah, i feel so aggressive when i type stuff like that
so i'll add this >
to make it less serious
Wow. I think your are a little mixed up. Have you ever heard of compassion?
Cobain is in no way a GREAT musician, but he was pretty good. His death, while tragic, made him an everlasting star like Morrison, and Hendrix.
Lets let the guy RIP.
Cheers
Every life is falling down
Brown to black, it's coming back
Dies to be part of the ground
Seed to seedling, root to stem
My Mother used to be a grief councellor for families of those people who suicided and without going into it too much, there are alot of factors to be considered, it's not just cut and dry. Many of those people are not thinking straight, have physical problems and/or are wrought with depression. I mean look at Kurt, he had awful stomach ulcers that plagued him everyday and Ian had epilepsy (something I have also) which he was embarrased of and feared. So it's never black and white and noone should judge unless they've walked a mile in their shoes.
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
Fine, sue me. I'm done with this thread. People go crazy about this topic.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
if you don't understand mental illness, fine, but then you don't have the right to judge someone on it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
actually, most of the world remembers him the same as every other story that ends in suicide: tragic. not anger. I put him on a pedestal because of his songwriting, not because he was some sort of martyr for my teenage disaffection.
yes, plenty of people suffer from depression. not all choose to be drug addicted. but not all people choose to get stomach illnesses that cause them to suffer from pain so intense he had no other choice but to self-medicate. doctors took a long time in diagnosing and treating the problem. unfortunately, they took too long.
judge much? jesus.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
dont be like that.
you cited a song cobain didnt write as an example of his alleged crapola songwriting skills. all i did was point out that cobain didnt write it and suggested next time go afer afer him for a song he did write. imagine if someone accused vedder of writing such a shitty song as last kiss. theyd get jumped on for being ill informed and most likely be thrown out of the 10club.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Charlotte 03
Asheville 04
Atlanta 12
Greenville 16, Columbia 16
Seattle 18
Nashville 22
Ohana Festival 24 x2
Wait, Eddie didn't write that song???
It's all good. I'll brush up on my Nirvana history this weekend.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
As far a being a musician, isn't he self proclaimed crappy guitar player and who usually spent the 5-10 minutes before the take writing the actual lyrics for the song?
I mean, he had excellent timing and the chord progression and how it resolves (or doesn't resolve pretty cool) but he is not what I think of as a good musician, maybe his voice of his generation at a time that needed one.
As long as there was Hendrix or Lennon or a Gilmour/Waters... I think not.
I still turn his songs up when they come on the radio.
PJ: 2011-09-03 2011-09-04
EV Solo: 7/11/11 11/12/12 11/13/12
in his family...
but only just...
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
NO NO NO NO NO NO
Not even close
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
Listening to Incesticide right now. This shit is clearly fucking awesome.
I always regret him being gone. Such a waste and so sad.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008