The Israel-Palestine Issue
Byrnzie
Posts: 21,037
As Kat pointed out the other day:
'There are places all over the internet to discuss the Middle East and the war is not going to be resolved in this little forum.'
Which is fair enough.
I was wondering whether people think this really isn't the place to get into such things. It is a rock bands message board afterall, not the Middle East. Should we just not discuss certain issues here, or is it just inevitable that where people are given a platform for discussing political issues this one will rear it's ugly head?
Sometimes I think we may be disrespecting the band & the Ten Club by battling this shit out on here.
Discuss..
'There are places all over the internet to discuss the Middle East and the war is not going to be resolved in this little forum.'
Which is fair enough.
I was wondering whether people think this really isn't the place to get into such things. It is a rock bands message board afterall, not the Middle East. Should we just not discuss certain issues here, or is it just inevitable that where people are given a platform for discussing political issues this one will rear it's ugly head?
Sometimes I think we may be disrespecting the band & the Ten Club by battling this shit out on here.
Discuss..
Post edited by Unknown User on
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take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Given that this band has always had a political edge - and their outspoken activism, (musically & non) is a huge part of what they mean to me - I don't think it is disrespectful to the band that we discuss these issues, but more the way they have been discussed. It would be a shame if there were topics that were out of bounds on here, but I can understand Kat's frustration and I know where she's coming from. It's not so much censorship as crowd control. And it shouldn't have to be like that.
I think we should be able to discuss politics, but I think we need to police ourselves a bit better. We know how the mods feel about it, and we should be willing to cool down debates ourselves if they start to get out of hand, or personal. There are enough of us who understand that, right?
Maybe we should have Kat's statements on our clipboards, ready to be pasted in to threads as required.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Because we're using their fan club message board to debate something that has nothing to do with them or their music.
It's under the heading "Non-Pearl Jam discussion"
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
That's not a bad point. :geek:
not to mention this is the POLITICAL forum on the board. this is where politics should be discussed. if not here then where? :shock: :roll:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
for sure, sometimes we get sidetracked with things here that have no merit and we read way too much into the words typed ...
but when all is said and done - it would be tragic for certain topics to be banned ... sometimes emotions just means people care ... and that's not a bad thing in my mind ...
Finally, i believe that we should be discussing this topics like any other topics but just remember that this is a discussion board and there is no points to be won.
sorry one more finally, if you have news stories about certain topics that fit into other treads that already exist don't make a separate thread but rather put it in the existing thread. that will allow other topics to be on the first page.
that's it.
well written. you were able to articulate the thoughts swirling in my brain.
Very well said.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
i post many many articles, mostly from international sources, hoping that someone at least will read it and gain some information from it. i believe that the better informed a community is, the better overall that community is. i am just trying to share information and it people feel the need to comment they will, if not they will either ignore it, or read it, hopefully take something away from it, and carry on with their other interests here.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I understand exactly what you are saying here and agree with you on many things; however, i think this create an opportunity for all of us. I think we should read all the posts before writing anything so that the discussion does move on instead of going backwards. like i said before, i find that some treads to be repetitive because what happens is that a person will ask a question on page 9 that was already discussed on page 3 and then everyone will go back to page 3 arguments again that kills a tread imo. there is no perfect solution but i think we should try so that everyone gets something out of these treads. its too important of a topic. thats its for me.
I don’t make the rules, but personally, I have no problem with personal comments that are at least somewhat respectful…There is a grey area between the factual topic and the opinion of the posters…
Some posters are very familiar with each other…opinions and viewpoints (on the topics and each other) carry forward from the past. The key is to maintain a level of basic respect and have the tact to use a lil sarcasm or wit when you feel like blowin your lid…and to have a thick enough skin to let some comments ‘roll right off’….
I’m guilty of making inflammatory, personal comments, sarcastic remarks etc etc…but I try not to be insulting or stoop to name calling, and I’ve never had so much as a warning in roughly a decade posting on PJ’s boards.…I also try not to hold grudges or let anything go beyond the board (afterall, who wants tension at a meet up or show? For us diehard travelling fans, there is a good chance we’ll cross paths someday).
As far as the Israel/Palestine topic itself…this is the single most important political issue in the world, I think it would make a mockery of this subforum to not be allowed to discuss it (tho I do understand Kat’s frustration, and appreciate her level headedness…I don’t think SHE gets enough credit for not getting as pissy as most of us do). I am not very well versed on the topic myself, but have committed to learn more over the past couple years…and since I don't frequent any of the sites more suited for this discussion, I've found the opinions of posters here invaluable. I hope people can recognize how significant their contributions to the board are; I've taken the knowledge gained here into the 'real world', and have in turn been able to make people around me more aware as well...even a niche political forum like this can have a large impact thru the ripple effect.
Lastly - can anyone provide links to these 'better places' on the net? Like...big, fast moving forums found on sites with little slant? (ie: I don't want to discuss the middle east with the nutballs on some of the neo-con or neo-lib sites)
anyone have any pointers on concise writing? fack. :?
Now, I actually think that a lot of the articles posted here are great, even if I don't agree with the political stance they take, because one should always stay open to having one's opinions challenged. The problem, I think, is that many people seem not all that interested in hearing, let alone considering, opinions they disagree with on this topic, which essentially cuts off any chance of a meaningful exchange of ideas. I recognize that people have strong emotions on this issue, but it may be helpful for the discussion if everyone tried to write about this topic unemotionally (by which I mean that we all try to avoid talking about this issue using language that we can be sure will push people's buttons). For example, I take a lot of offense when people compare Israelis to Nazis, or talk about Israel committing genocide, or say that Israel (rather than certain Israelis) is racist...basically when discussion of Israel is framed as "Israel is disgusting and evil," as opposed to "I really have a problem with this specific Israeli action..." By the same token I would be happy for people to let me know what it is I say that they find offensive so that I can try to formulate my posts in more constructive ways.
>
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"I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa
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Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
fife, that is because the song remains the same. how can there be growth in the arguments when nothing changes. Israel is never held accountable for their actions and nothing changes for the Palestinians. no matter how much we talk about it. they continue to lead a miserable horrible life.
so what do you suggest we do? don't talk about it? don't try and increase peoples awareness of what's really happening? stay quiet about what's happening because there's no growth in the arguments? trust me when i say i wish there was growth because that would mean that the situation is improving. and it's not. far from it.
thing is fife there has been so many attrocities that have happened in the past that people have not been aware of because we have not had the tools to try and speak out in different ways to let people know what's really going on. we don't have that excuse anymore. the oppressed have become the oppressors. collectively punishing an entire population of peoples and committing ongoing crimes against humanity. every single day.
all the people turning a blind eye and not speaking out to try and end it has blood on their hands. it's 2010, you can't plead ignorance anymore and say 'we didn't know it was happening'.
the reason some compare israel's actions to the nazi's is because there are few parallels in recent history that so illustrate Israel's treatment of palestine. its that bad. the US invasion of vietnam is a good comparison, and i have no problem switching to that, but israel's actions are what they are.
and you can't be serious. in this case, it is no accident you are the minority. what do you expect? no mention of israeli brutality? they have a very populated are of the planet under siege, NOW, and it needs to end, as soon as possible. there is a certain urgency dealing with this issue because as it was in the US during vietnam, people didn't sit back and calmly discuss things. they acted. Israeli brutality and injustice is NOW.
that said, i dont' expect this board to be a vehicle to bring about that change, but, crimes are being committed daily, as the nazis committed crimes. there is your comparison. and to be sure, i wouldn't be giving a nazi a pass, or even a german, were they defending those crimes. its no different here.
sorry if you all disagree, but go back and try to read some of the posts on this forum the last few days regarding the middle east with a clear and unbiased mind and think about it before you blast me over my opinion here.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
this does not separate you from anyone on this board.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
But do you not think that the 'average citizen' has a HUGE role to play in their country's affairs, having voted the government in? I consider the majority complicit with the government as it is agreeing with their policies (seeing they voted for them). I also consider the 'silent minority' complicit - 'silent' being the word to focus on. Whether you have voted a government in or not, if one is not satisfied/appalled/against policies put in place, one should make their voices heard. So I do criticise the 'average citizen' - whether it's in Israel or not. My thoughts are valid for ANY country - the PEOPLE can shape the country with their votes. If the government they vote in does not perform as 'promised', people need to speak up. Look what is happening in the UK... The current coalition government is a joke. Nothing can be done until the next general election, but on the other hand, people are protesting/striking against the policies and making political changes at local level, until the time comes. One noticeable thing that makes me think the majority stand behind Israel's policies is that, in general, their press doesn't seem to be very critical of government policies, whereas in the UK.....
Just my thoughts.
i'm pretty sure it's not that surprising as many jewish groups outside of israel are quite moderate ... the problem with that voice tho is that they are only willing to voice a measure of change rather demand it ...
it's sort of like china and north korea now ... * you shouldn't launch attacks against south korea - but we won't really hold you accountable if you do "