do you find it difficult to reconcile your beliefs with...

BinFrog

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

arq wrote:

BinFrog wrote:

And while I think Lars Ulrich & company have completely sold out in every way possible...

Let's turn this thread into "why metallica sold out?" I still love them they were my favorite band before PJ BUT i love every single record of them, even the load and reload... YES i like them too! lol How in the world a band could sold out? I know music is an art but at the end is a business too, i guess any artist would like to bring food to their tables... really good food served by butlers and cooked by chefs

its their art. let em make some coin from it.
Some of my favs have sold out
Blink 182 were so good early, then they got popular and stared making the same song again and again. I still love the early stuff
green day too

I can't say I blame Metallica for wanting to cash in. And I also can't blame them for toning it down a bit after all those years. I mean, after making pinnacle heavy metal for a decade, I'm sure they just wanted to branch out.

The whole Napster thing was what soured me. To that point it was ok that they didn't make music I loved anymore. But when Metallica, a band that became an underground phenomenon by letting fans freely trade their early bootlegs, tried to crush the little guy in every way possible...even those only trading bootlegs and not albums...they lost me.

To me, PJ did it right. I know some people had issues with the whole Target deal. But I truly think PJ's heart has been in the right place. They seem to make albums THEY want to make. They tour when THEY want to tour. And we all know how generous they are to the fans. Yeah, they have a ton of merch, maybe too much, but that's only because we gobble it up. To me they are the modern day example of integrity. To some they may have gotten boring with old age but to me they are like a well shelved '90 Cabernet.

catefrances

BinFrog wrote:

... And we all know how generous they are to the fans. ...

so generous that theyre allowing the fans to pay for the privilege.

BinFrog

catefrances wrote:

BinFrog wrote:

... And we all know how generous they are to the fans. ...

so generous that theyre allowing the fans to pay for the privilege.

Name another band that gives you access to the best seats in the house for $20 a year...and you also get well done newsletters and an Easter single?

catefrances

BinFrog wrote:

catefrances wrote:

BinFrog wrote:

... And we all know how generous they are to the fans. ...

so generous that theyre allowing the fans to pay for the privilege.

Name another band that gives you access to the best seats in the house for $20 a year...and you also get well done newsletters and an Easter single?

and then throws you a stadium gig with no reserved seats.

i understand what youre saying binfroggie and id have to research that before i gave you an answer. but either you join 10club or you cant be a part of this community here. and it doesnt matter if pj tour your country or not, so best seat access is irrelevant to quite a few people. ive watched as some of my closest pj friends have disappeared through the gaps. and that saddens me.

BinFrog

catefrances wrote:

and then throws you a stadium gig with no reserved seats.

i understand what youre saying binfroggie and id have to research that before i gave you an answer. but either you join 10club or you cant be a part of this community here. and it doesnt matter if pj tour your country or not, so best seat access is irrelevant to quite a few people. ive watched as some of my closest pj friends have disappeared through the gaps. and that saddens me.

You can't please all of your fans all the time. It's bound to happen. For every show that slips through the cracks and does not work out 100% for the fanclub members, there are 30 shows that are complete gems.

catefrances

BinFrog wrote:

catefrances wrote:

and then throws you a stadium gig with no reserved seats.

i understand what youre saying binfroggie and id have to research that before i gave you an answer. but either you join 10club or you cant be a part of this community here. and it doesnt matter if pj tour your country or not, so best seat access is irrelevant to quite a few people. ive watched as some of my closest pj friends have disappeared through the gaps. and that saddens me.

You can't please all of your fans all the time. It's bound to happen. For every show that slips through the cracks and does not work out 100% for the fanclub members, there are 30 shows that are complete gems.

im not even really talking about shows that slip through the fingers. im talking about friends that have been alienated from, and by pearl jam. i want the band to know that. and realise what happened when they took away peoples choice to stay and contribute in this community as free settlers. and by friends im not just speaking of my friends.

JonnyPistachio

I bet if I knew everything about all my favorite arists, I wouldnt have many favorite artists anymore.

know1

Interesting question. I guess I don't really admire the work of too many people, but it seems the ones I do admire are the ones whose beliefs match up with my own.

Jeanwah

I had a real tough time accepting PJ and their 180 degree flip on integrity over a year ago. I loved this band for what they stood up for, first and foremost, and then they sing a different tune? I stopped listening for months, before I could accept them for what they've turned into, and it took just as long for myself to try and understand why they did it. I've decided to settle for loving the music, as it still means the same to me, but I no longer respect EV and the rest like I used to. And no comment about what I think about band management. I'm still here because of all the great people I've met through loving the band, and they're worth it...as well as the music. But I'm coming back around to appreciating EV for who he is.

Sometime we have to stop holding our heroes up on pedestals. Or we'll continually let ourselves down. So I'm OK with the band now, knowing that they're as flawed as I am.

pandora

Jeanwah wrote:

I had a real tough time accepting PJ and their 180 degree flip on integrity over a year ago. I loved this band for what they stood up for, first and foremost, and then they sing a different tune? I stopped listening for months, before I could accept them for what they've turned into, and it took just as long for myself to try and understand why they did it. I've decided to settle for loving the music, as it still means the same to me, but I no longer respect EV and the rest like I used to. And no comment about what I think about band management. I'm still here because of all the great people I've met through loving the band, and they're worth it...as well as the music. But I'm coming back around to appreciating EV for who he is.

Sometime we have to stop holding our heroes up on pedestals. Or we'll continually let ourselves down. So I'm OK with the band now, knowing that they're as flawed as I am.

Loving the music is what they give to us... a great gift.
Us loving others in spite of their choices is our gift to them.
I know what lives in your heart and its beautiful. Your life lessons have taught you so much,
more than I can even imagine.
Sorry for your disappointment, as you know, you weren't alone.
We all disappoint each other though, sad human fact.
I'm very glad you are here with us, that the music kept you here, your spirit is needed.

Jeanwah

pandora wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

I had a real tough time accepting PJ and their 180 degree flip on integrity over a year ago. I loved this band for what they stood up for, first and foremost, and then they sing a different tune? I stopped listening for months, before I could accept them for what they've turned into, and it took just as long for myself to try and understand why they did it. I've decided to settle for loving the music, as it still means the same to me, but I no longer respect EV and the rest like I used to. And no comment about what I think about band management. I'm still here because of all the great people I've met through loving the band, and they're worth it...as well as the music. But I'm coming back around to appreciating EV for who he is.

Sometime we have to stop holding our heroes up on pedestals. Or we'll continually let ourselves down. So I'm OK with the band now, knowing that they're as flawed as I am.

Loving the music is what they give to us... a great gift.
Us loving others in spite of their choices is our gift to them.
I know what lives in your heart and its beautiful. Your life lessons have taught you so much,
more than I can even imagine.
Sorry for your disappointment, as you know, you weren't alone.
We all disappoint each other though, sad human fact.
I'm very glad you are here with us, that the music kept you here, your spirit is needed.

Thanks, P!

myra

That's an interesting question. I was wondering about the same thing, first thinking that I would probably quit admiring or at least enjoying the artist's or whoever's work if I found out their beliefs drastically differed from mine. They I came to thinking that you can't deny your fav. artist the tolerance you grant others.
Now I'm confused about all this. I think somehow I wouldn't enjoy the artist's work as much. And I don't know if that's morally right.

whygohome

Jeanwah wrote:

I had a real tough time accepting PJ and their 180 degree flip on integrity over a year ago. I loved this band for what they stood up for, first and foremost, and then they sing a different tune? I stopped listening for months, before I could accept them for what they've turned into, and it took just as long for myself to try and understand why they did it. I've decided to settle for loving the music, as it still means the same to me, but I no longer respect EV and the rest like I used to. And no comment about what I think about band management. I'm still here because of all the great people I've met through loving the band, and they're worth it...as well as the music. But I'm coming back around to appreciating EV for who he is.

Sometime we have to stop holding our heroes up on pedestals. Or we'll continually let ourselves down. So I'm OK with the band now, knowing that they're as flawed as I am.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, but I'm wondering if you could elaborate. What is the 180 degree flip? What is the different tune?

myra

whygohome wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, but I'm wondering if you could elaborate. What is the 180 degree flip? What is the different tune?

Yes, I'm curious too .... :?:

unsung

Curious 3.

I somewhat find it odd that the band wouldn't make MTV videos for years but now has its own satellite radio station.

Don't get me wrong listening puts me in a better place, it just does puzzle me.

pandora

unsung wrote:

Curious 3.

I somewhat find it odd that the band wouldn't make MTV videos for years but now has its own satellite radio station.

Don't get me wrong listening puts me in a better place, it just does puzzle me.

It doesn't puzzle me, people grow old, they change, priorities change. It's a process we all go through.
When we are young it is our most rebellious time. A time to dissect, find fault, demand change. I'm not saying that totally disappears with age but it mellows.

Fathers provide the very best they can for their heirs. This becomes the most important factor as they age. Its not all about money but money is security for those they love.
The future is not too bright either, the more money one has, the safer one will be...in my opinion.

As far as radio vs videos, I don't think Pearl Jam was ever into the camera like they are the music. I think if a video is made they like to show themselves natural, in action at what they do best, live on stage. So, I'm not sure you can compare the two really. It's about the music for them not acting in a video.
They remain uncommercialized compared to most bands, in my opinion.

BinFrog

unsung wrote:

I somewhat find it odd that the band wouldn't make MTV videos for years but now has its own satellite radio station.

In my mind these are 2 completely separate and unrelated issues. Their stance on videos was based on a few things: thinking MTV was a joke, thinking videos never really show what the song is about, wanting listeners to interpret the songs their own way, wanting to bow out of the spotlight, etc.

PJ has always been about the music. To have their own station accessible to millions of people? That's like a freaking goldmine to them. THAT is what they are about...and it's why they have had an internet station on their site for months now. They like their music being accessible, and now it is.

Jeanwah

whygohome wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, but I'm wondering if you could elaborate. What is the 180 degree flip? What is the different tune?

I don't quite understand how some people don't see the drastic change the band had made since their formative years, if you've been a fan for the long haul. I loved the guys for being true to themselves, standing up for what they believed in, as well as being anti-greed, anti-corporate and outspoken politically, socially and environmentally. That really inspired me to have more integrity myself. But it's all changed in the last couple years; with putting out Baskspacer, they make a "radio-friendly" song (The Fixer) for the sole purpose of gaining a new audience and being commercial, they're playing private and corporate gigs, and instead of putting the art of music front and center, it's about money. This is JUST my opinion. I understand they have families, so do I. But there's a way to secure your financial future without compromising your ideals. Which they did, or their ideals just went way of more money and commercialization. And for that, I now accept it, but it was a tough pill to swallow for many months.

he still stands

Jeanwah wrote:

whygohome wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, but I'm wondering if you could elaborate. What is the 180 degree flip? What is the different tune?

I don't understand how some people don't see the drastic change the band had made from their formative years, if you've been a fan for the long haul. I loved the guys for being true to themselves, standing up for what they believed in, as well as being anti-greed, anti-corporate and outspoken politically, socially and environmentally. That really inspired me to have more integrity myself. It's all changed; with putting out Baskspacer, they make a "radio-friendly" song (The Fixer) for the sole purpose of gaining a new audience and being commercial, playing private and corporate gigs, and instead of putting the art of music front and center, it's about money. This is JUST my opinion. I understand they have families, so do I. But there's a way to secure your financial future without compromising your ideals. Which they did, or their ideals just went way of more money and commercialization. And for that, I now accept it, but it was a tough pill to swallow for many months.

How are they not "anti-greed, anti-corporate and outspoken politically, socially and environmentally."

"they make a "radio-friendly" song (The Fixer) for the sole purpose of gaining a new audience"... I don't see that at all... if that's what they intended they didn't do a very good job of it. And even if they did, as artists they can create whatever they want, who are we to judge?

"playing private and corporate gigs"... for whom? Are they playing for BP or GM or something?

"But there's a way to secure your financial future without compromising your ideals. Which they did, or their ideals just went way of more money and commercialization." ...This just reeks of the old opinion that 'when you're popular you've sold out.' I don't see how there is truth in anything that you're saying... I think you're taking this band a little too seriously maybe.



In regards to beliefs... it is easier to accept others' beliefs when you realize we all have different reality tunnels. We are all viewing the world from our own perspective and each person's persective is drastically different from our own. There is no single concrete almight correct version of reality and once you reconcile that with the recognition that everyone is viewing reality from their own "tunnel," others don't seem insane or strange or normal... they're just viewing the world from a different perspective. And EVERY perspective is just as valid as the next. I also think it is more healthy to believe in as little as possible or even better; believe in NOTHING. I still have a few beliefs that I'm trying to shake (love, optimism, for example) but in general I think in degrees of probability, not in unshakable beliefs that create bias and bigotry. If people starting thinking in degrees of probability and starting saying "maybe" a bit more often this world would be so much better off. "I BELIEVE IN EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS SACRED. I BELIEVE IN NOTHING, EVERYTHING IS SACRED."

catefrances

he still stands wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

whygohome wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, but I'm wondering if you could elaborate. What is the 180 degree flip? What is the different tune?

I don't understand how some people don't see the drastic change the band had made from their formative years, if you've been a fan for the long haul. I loved the guys for being true to themselves, standing up for what they believed in, as well as being anti-greed, anti-corporate and outspoken politically, socially and environmentally. That really inspired me to have more integrity myself. It's all changed; with putting out Baskspacer, they make a "radio-friendly" song (The Fixer) for the sole purpose of gaining a new audience and being commercial, playing private and corporate gigs, and instead of putting the art of music front and center, it's about money. This is JUST my opinion. I understand they have families, so do I. But there's a way to secure your financial future without compromising your ideals. Which they did, or their ideals just went way of more money and commercialization. And for that, I now accept it, but it was a tough pill to swallow for many months.

How are they not "anti-greed, anti-corporate and outspoken politically, socially and environmentally."

"they make a "radio-friendly" song (The Fixer) for the sole purpose of gaining a new audience"... I don't see that at all... if that's what they intended they didn't do a very good job of it. And even if they did, as artists they can create whatever they want, who are we to judge?...

personally i just think the fixer was a shit song. but no where near as shit as johnny guitar. but as i said its what i personally think.