Question about Homeless people...

Cosmo

Here in Southern California, there are several former bases that have been closed, but, remain in tact. The former base housing still stands, but are becoming more delapidated as time passes...
How about using those areas of the bases for homeless veterans? Use part of the massive defense budget to cover the costs by cutting down of some of the high priced hardware. The occupants can do the maintenance on the houses they will be living in and upkeep of them as they are there. They are sort of used to military disciplines and veteran's support personel can oversee the area, assign tasks, hold meeting to combat alcohlism and drug addiction and help them to find work in the local area. They must meet some sort of criteria to live there and risk getting tossed back out if they cause trouble.
There are grounds where they can plant vegetables, giving those with limited skills something to do. Everyone pulls their own weight and they look out for each other.
It just seem to me... that there is so much wasted shelter and so many vets sleeping out in the weather.

fife

Commy wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Commy wrote:

byproducts of capitalism.


would you rather they starved to death?

how is this a product of capitalism? please explain

a more accurate statement could be 'products of american society" although its true for both.



when companies withing the US are pocketing more money than countries like saudi arabia, where do you think that money comes from?


labor is exploited under capitalism, the further down the chain you are the more work you tend to do, with less compensation. its very apparent in the food industry, where i worked for 4 years in high end restaurants.


the labor done by the cooks paid everybody's paycheck in the entire building. basically every job in the building, and outside too-the corporate owners only showed up twice a year-everybody was exploiting my labor. nobody has a job in the building if no one is cooking the food.

i'm not saying those jobs weren't needed, i'm saying the compensation based on labor was ridiculously backwards.

that's fairly typical under capitalism, and given numbers in the united states, real wages have stagnated relative to inflation since 1978 or so. this while ceo's have seen exponential increases in paychecks and companies are seeing record profits, up until recently anyway.


what you have is a society that exploits labor, instead of honoring it.

i don't look down on homeless people, many of them have chosen not to participate in such a society. why work your ass off 50 hours a week when your boss working half as hard gets paid twice as much? disillusionment, disgust, people choosing not to participate, a definition of success that they want no part of. these are the people that choose not to participate in a selfish society that values things over humanity.


and then you have the many who simply can't find a job that suits them. or who had banks foreclose on their houses or who simply got laid off because their job was sent overseas where world trade agreements ensured the lowest common denominator.


in a society that values labor i can see a place where people choose to do their part, instead of escape from it, drugs, alcohol, whatever the vice. why work your ass off so your boss can vacation 6 months a year? labor benefits the owners and managers, not society as a whole, and that distinction is crucial for many people.

Sorry Commy, i agree with some of the things you have said concerning our society but i think you have a very romantic view of homelessness. I have been working with homeless people for around 8 years and have been homeless myself and I can tell you. I wanted to work and most of the homeless people i work with now want to work. Poor people and homeless people know better than anyone how important money is in our society. your claim that homeless people choose not to participate in society is not correct. most homeless people want to be a part of society and were forced out of society due to reason that may not have been in their control.

I will restate what i said before. No-one wants to be homeless but some don't know any other way.

nuffingman

acoustic guy wrote:

I am curious to know your opinion on the subject..

I live and work near Atlantic City NJ and its a problem there. Reasons are for one the Cops in New York acutally send their homeless on busses to Atlantic City because its a cheap trip and it removes them.
(TRUE! Ongoing problem between the two Departments).
Two...they are given three meals a day free. Breakfast and Dinner from the mission, and another church on Pacific Ave gives out free lunch to those who need it. (Which is fucked because there are tons of Asians who gamble but are not homeless go there for a free meal). So now, if they ask for money from people they spend it on either drugs, booze or gambling.
WTF???
How are you helping them by giving them money or food etc???????
And if you say some are stuck and actually DO want help....its maybe 2 percent of them.

I may be wrong but you seem to consider homeless people as drug addicted wasters that don't want to attempt to improve their lives. Some have mental problems and some have just been dealt a very shitty hand.

cajunkiwi

Commy wrote:

labor is exploited under capitalism, the further down the chain you are the more work you tend to do, with less compensation. its very apparent in the food industry, where i worked for 4 years in high end restaurants.

the labor done by the cooks paid everybody's paycheck in the entire building. basically every job in the building, and outside too-the corporate owners only showed up twice a year-everybody was exploiting my labor. nobody has a job in the building if no one is cooking the food.

i'm not saying those jobs weren't needed, i'm saying the compensation based on labor was ridiculously backwards.

that's fairly typical under capitalism, and given numbers in the united states, real wages have stagnated relative to inflation since 1978 or so. this while ceo's have seen exponential increases in paychecks and companies are seeing record profits, up until recently anyway.

fife wrote:

most homeless people want to be a part of society and were forced out of society due to reason that may not have been in their control.

I will restate what i said before. No-one wants to be homeless but some don't know any other way.

I'm seeing this happen right now at the university I work for. We're facing a budget crisis and will have to slash our budget by a third in the next nine months. The university has instituted a pure freeze on raises, and is preparing to let 700 employees go - which definitely speaks to fife's reasons beyond their control. And, don't forget, not everyone who works at a university is a top-of-the-line researcher who will land on his feet easily - the university employs a ton of janitors, cleaners, and other people who are barely earning minimum wage. Because the state, and the university, didn't have its shit together, a ton of people are going to be laid off who really can't afford to be laid off, and it wouldn't surprise me if a handful ended up on the street as a result.

What really makes me sick in all of this is what Commy was talking about. While the people earning minimum wage to keep the university clean and safe are being laid off, the people at the other end of the food chain are getting around the pure raise freeze by playing musical chairs with job titles, and increasing their compensation every time they do so. Our provost left, so the dean emeritus of the journalism school stepped in to replace her. While he was giving interviews saying he was going to be known as the grim reaper because of the budget slashing he was going to do, it came out that he gave himself a huge raise and was now earning $40,000 a year more than the provost he replaced.

The whole system is screwed up.

acoustic guy

mikepegg44 wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

I am curious to know your opinion on the subject..

I live and work near Atlantic City NJ and its a problem there. Reasons are for one the Cops in New York acutally send their homeless on busses to Atlantic City because its a cheap trip and it removes them.
(TRUE! Ongoing problem between the two Departments).
Two...they are given three meals a day free. Breakfast and Dinner from the mission, and another church on Pacific Ave gives out free lunch to those who need it. (Which is fucked because there are tons of Asians who gamble but are not homeless go there for a free meal). So now, if they ask for money from people they spend it on either drugs, booze or gambling.
WTF???
How are you helping them by giving them money or food etc???????
And if you say some are stuck and actually DO want help....its maybe 2 percent of them.

homeless people are just that...people without homes. they are still people and should be treated like it.

why do people become the morality police when they donate a little money? who gives a shit if he gambles it, buys some booze or gets his fix, that is his problem. if you want him to buy food with it take him to a subway and by him a damn sandwich. I ended up having quite a few good relationships with the guys that lived around my building by doing just that. Giving to them what I could. They even looked out for my stuff on the street, preventing my car from being stolen one night for example...it was pretty amazing. I would have good, pointed converstaions with them, about why they were homeless, and what they were doing. After I got through their bullshit it was pretty fun. They are people that are down on their luck, mentally ill, or hooked on drugs, etc...but they are still people and can teach you something if you let them.
I would challenge you Acoustic Guy...go to a homeless shelter and volunteer a few nights. It may take the high horse you are on down a few notches.

Listen, I dont think I am on a high horse. I actually am working on a job in AC now and I have made friends with a few homeless guys there which made me think of writing this post.
I just have a hard time blowing my money i work for to a person who is gonna use it for drinks or drugs. Fuck that! I know THESE guys I met will do just that bc I see it all day long with them.
Food, okay. Shelter, okay. Clothes, Great!
I already talked to the woman I am doing work for and she accepts clothes for homeless. I am not the devil because I bring up sensitive topics. WTF?
And Vets! I will do all I can for a Vet. I really feel for them, but I cant accept giving money for their crutch sorry. If that makes me a bad person in yor eyes then so be it.

acoustic guy

eyedclaar wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

wow. Don't know if I should be more upset about the lack of compassion or the racist comment...?

Smellyman meet Acoustic Guy. Acoustic Guy meet Smellyman. Get used to it.

Racist???
Anyway...Nice to meet ya! :twisted: Muhahaha!

fife

acoustic guy wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

I am curious to know your opinion on the subject..

I live and work near Atlantic City NJ and its a problem there. Reasons are for one the Cops in New York acutally send their homeless on busses to Atlantic City because its a cheap trip and it removes them.
(TRUE! Ongoing problem between the two Departments).
Two...they are given three meals a day free. Breakfast and Dinner from the mission, and another church on Pacific Ave gives out free lunch to those who need it. (Which is fucked because there are tons of Asians who gamble but are not homeless go there for a free meal). So now, if they ask for money from people they spend it on either drugs, booze or gambling.
WTF???
How are you helping them by giving them money or food etc???????
And if you say some are stuck and actually DO want help....its maybe 2 percent of them.

homeless people are just that...people without homes. they are still people and should be treated like it.

why do people become the morality police when they donate a little money? who gives a shit if he gambles it, buys some booze or gets his fix, that is his problem. if you want him to buy food with it take him to a subway and by him a damn sandwich. I ended up having quite a few good relationships with the guys that lived around my building by doing just that. Giving to them what I could. They even looked out for my stuff on the street, preventing my car from being stolen one night for example...it was pretty amazing. I would have good, pointed converstaions with them, about why they were homeless, and what they were doing. After I got through their bullshit it was pretty fun. They are people that are down on their luck, mentally ill, or hooked on drugs, etc...but they are still people and can teach you something if you let them.
I would challenge you Acoustic Guy...go to a homeless shelter and volunteer a few nights. It may take the high horse you are on down a few notches.

Listen, I dont think I am on a high horse. I actually am working on a job in AC now and I have made friends with a few homeless guys there which made me think of writing this post.
I just have a hard time blowing my money i work for to a person who is gonna use it for drinks or drugs. Fuck that! I know THESE guys I met will do just that bc I see it all day long with them.
Food, okay. Shelter, okay. Clothes, Great!
I already talked to the woman I am doing work for and she accepts clothes for homeless. I am not the devil because I bring up sensitive topics. WTF?
And Vets! I will do all I can for a Vet. I really feel for them, but I cant accept giving money for their crutch sorry. If that makes me a bad person in yor eyes then so be it.

I think the issue that i had with your post was not the question it asks but that it seemed that you didn't want an answer. you already had it in your head that they are hopeless cases and there is no reason to help them. its a fair question to ask and i don't think your a bad person but when you ask a question maybe you should be open to an answer that may not fit your view. have a good day.

acoustic guy

I totally am. That swhy I like to post on a Liberal site like this one.
I enjoy the back and forth and i enjoy hearing the other point of view...

polaris_x

hey fife - congrats on your turn around ..

here's my take on homeless people ... i periodically with friends will make winter kits (food, toque, gloves, socks, etc) and walk around and offer them up ... most will take it ... some won't ... and some could care less ... i am one of those guys that often gives money to the guys in the corner on the street ... if i have food - i will give that first ... in the end tho - i try not to judge ... i have a roof over my head and food on my plate - there are a million paths that can lead a person to be homeless ...

acoustic guy

polaris_x wrote:

hey fife - congrats on your turn around ..

here's my take on homeless people ... i periodically with friends will make winter kits (food, toque, gloves, socks, etc) and walk around and offer them up ... most will take it ... some won't ... and some could care less ... i am one of those guys that often gives money to the guys in the corner on the street ... if i have food - i will give that first ... in the end tho - i try not to judge ... i have a roof over my head and food on my plate - there are a million paths that can lead a person to be homeless ...

Wow, amazing.

_

acoustic guy wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

hey fife - congrats on your turn around ..

here's my take on homeless people ... i periodically with friends will make winter kits (food, toque, gloves, socks, etc) and walk around and offer them up ... most will take it ... some won't ... and some could care less ... i am one of those guys that often gives money to the guys in the corner on the street ... if i have food - i will give that first ... in the end tho - i try not to judge ... i have a roof over my head and food on my plate - there are a million paths that can lead a person to be homeless ...

Wow, amazing.

:?

Drowned Out

This is a tough topic…charity can be abused in ways that make a person callous, but we cant let that colour our view of every person on the street…
I was burned twice by the same homeless guy, one of very few in the affluent ‘burb I grew up in….
The first time, I gave him $5 outside a 7/11…I watched him hail a cab with it…seemed weird, but whatever… later that week, I read in the paper that he was arrested for trespassing in an industrial park shortly after hailing that cab…broke into a yard to huff paint from the empty cans and got caught…
A year or so later, I saw him panhandling outside a mall…instead of giving him money, I bought him a sub…I watched him throw it in the trash without taking a bite…guess it would have affected his ability to ask for food money :? oh well, maybe there was an asian person watching, and they could have grabbed a free meal :roll:
I don’t give him anything anymore….but I know not every homeless person is like him…

Anyone remember this spoken word tune from a few years back? the highlighted verse/stanza is spot on:

Lazyboy – Underwear Goes Inside the Pants

Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal?
It's a natural plant that grows in the dirt.
Do you know what's not natural?
80 year old dudes with hard-ons. That's not natural.
But we got pills for that.
We're dedicating all our medical resources to keeping the old guys erect,
but we're putting people in jail for something that grows in the dirt?

You know we have more prescription drugs now.
Every commercial that comes on TV is a prescription drug ad.
I can't watch TV for four minutes without thinking I have five serious diseases.
Like: "Do you ever wake up tired in the morning?"
Oh my god I have this, write this down. Whatever it is, I have it.
Half the time I don't even know what the commercial is:
people running in fields or flying kites or swimming in the ocean.
I'm like that is the greatest disease ever. How do you get that?
That disease comes with a hot chick and a puppy.

The schools now: It is all about self-esteem in the schools now.
Build the kids' self-esteem, make them feel good about themselves.
If everybody grows up with high self-esteem, who is going to dance in our strip clubs?
What's going to happen to our porno industry?
These women don't just grown on trees.
It takes lots of drunk dads missing dance recitals before you decide to blow a goat on the internet for fifty bucks.
And if that disappears, where does that leave me on a Friday night with my new high speed connection?

Masterminds are another word that comes up all the time.
You keep hearing about these terrorists masterminds that get killed in the middle east.
Terrorists masterminds.
Mastermind is sort of a lofty way to describe what these guys do, don't you think?
They're not masterminds.
"OK, you take bomb, right? And you put in your backpack. And you get on bus and you blow yourself up. Alright?"
"Why do I have to blow myself up? Why can't I just:"
"Who's the fucking mastermind here? Me or you?"

Americans, let's face it: We've been a spoiled country for a long time.
Do you know what the number one health risk in America is?
Obesity. They say we're in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
An epidemic like it is polio. Like we'll be telling our grand kids about it one day.
The Great Obesity Epidemic of 2004.
"How'd you get through it grandpa?"
"Oh, it was horrible Johnny, there was cheesecake and pork chops everywhere."

Nobody knows why were getting fatter? Look at our lifestyle.
I'll sit at a drive thru.
I'll sit there behind fifteen other cars instead of getting up to make the eight foot walk to the totally empty counter.
Everything is mega meal, super sized. Want biggie fries, super sized, want to go large.
You want to have thirty burgers for a nickel you fat mother fucker. There's room in the back. Take it!
Want a 55 gallon drum of Coke with that? It's only three more cents.

Sometimes you have to suffer a little bit in your youth to motivate yourself to succeed in later life.
Do you think if Bill Gates got laid in high school, do you think there'd be a Microsoft?
Of course not.
You got to spend a long time in your own locker with your underwear shoved up your ass before you start to think,
"You'll see. I'm going to take of the world of computers! I'll show them."

We're in one of the richest countries in the world,
but the minimum wage is lower than it was thirty five years ago.
There are homeless people everywhere.
This homeless guy asked me for money the other day.
I was about to give it to him and then I thought he was going to use it on drugs or alcohol.
And then I thought, that's what I'm going to use it on.
Why am I judging this poor bastard.
People love to judge homeless guys. Like if you give them money they're just going to waste it.
Well, he lives in a box, what do you want him to do? Save it up and buy a wall unit?
Take a little run to the store for a throw rug and a CD rack? He's homeless.
I walked behind this guy the other day.
A homeless guy asked him for money.
He looks right at the homeless guy and says why don't you go get a job you bum.
People always say that to homeless guys like it is so easy.
This homeless guy was wearing his underwear outside his pants.
Outside his pants. I'm guessing his resume isn't all up to date.
I'm predicting some problems during the interview process.
I'm pretty sure even McDonalds has a "underwear goes inside the pants" policy.
Not that they enforce it really strictly, but technically I'm sure it is on the books.

acoustic guy

scb wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

hey fife - congrats on your turn around ..

here's my take on homeless people ... i periodically with friends will make winter kits (food, toque, gloves, socks, etc) and walk around and offer them up ... most will take it ... some won't ... and some could care less ... i am one of those guys that often gives money to the guys in the corner on the street ... if i have food - i will give that first ... in the end tho - i try not to judge ... i have a roof over my head and food on my plate - there are a million paths that can lead a person to be homeless ...

Wow, amazing.

:?

Kiss my ass..dont do that.

_

acoustic guy wrote:

scb wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

Wow, amazing.

:?

Kiss my ass..dont do that.

:? :?

Jason P

scb wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

scb wrote:

:?

Kiss my ass..dont do that.

:? :?

fife

I found this article from the CBC. found it very interesting. please let snot make this a Obama is killing the country thread but just wanted to show how easy it is for people to be homeless.

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2010/09/1 ... mbers.html

dimitrispearljam

scb wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

Kiss my ass..dont do that.

:? :?

Cosmo

acoustic guy wrote:

Listen, I dont think I am on a high horse. I actually am working on a job in AC now and I have made friends with a few homeless guys there which made me think of writing this post.
I just have a hard time blowing my money i work for to a person who is gonna use it for drinks or drugs. Fuck that! I know THESE guys I met will do just that bc I see it all day long with them.
Food, okay. Shelter, okay. Clothes, Great!
I already talked to the woman I am doing work for and she accepts clothes for homeless. I am not the devil because I bring up sensitive topics. WTF?
And Vets! I will do all I can for a Vet. I really feel for them, but I cant accept giving money for their crutch sorry. If that makes me a bad person in yor eyes then so be it.

...
You may not think you are on a high horse... but, the words in the initial post sure sounds like it to us.
As for me... my charity does not come with strings attached... it is unconditional. Once I pass the dollar... it becomes their dollar, not mine. But, that's just me and I don't expect anyone do as I say.
Regarding Veterans... you say you would do what you can for them... which is great. Except, you ruin that statement by saying you can't accept giving them your money as a crutch. Which is okay... you can keep the money in your pockets because there are others around you that place more value in the plight of the homeless Veteran, than the paper in their pockets.