Question about Homeless people...

acoustic guy

I am curious to know your opinion on the subject..

I live and work near Atlantic City NJ and its a problem there. Reasons are for one the Cops in New York acutally send their homeless on busses to Atlantic City because its a cheap trip and it removes them.
(TRUE! Ongoing problem between the two Departments).
Two...they are given three meals a day free. Breakfast and Dinner from the mission, and another church on Pacific Ave gives out free lunch to those who need it. (Which is fucked because there are tons of Asians who gamble but are not homeless go there for a free meal). So now, if they ask for money from people they spend it on either drugs, booze or gambling.
WTF???
How are you helping them by giving them money or food etc???????
And if you say some are stuck and actually DO want help....its maybe 2 percent of them.

Commy

byproducts of capitalism.


would you rather they starved to death?

Smellyman

wow. Don't know if I should be more upset about the lack of compassion or the racist comment...?

eyedclaar

Smellyman wrote:

wow. Don't know if I should be more upset about the lack of compassion or the racist comment...?

Smellyman meet Acoustic Guy. Acoustic Guy meet Smellyman. Get used to it.

gabers

I choose not to give cash directly to a homeless, aka bum, whatever. Occasionally I do give to missions, churches, etc. that provide for the homeless. I feel better about where my money is actually going that way. And I see homeless people every day in the streets near where I work. I choose to use the white lie "I'm sorry, I don't carry cash". It's part true, I don't usually carry cash. Actually, just last week I bought a guy a lunch since he told me that's all he wanted. He seemed thankful. Honestly, he didn't have the standard homeless look, but I was feeling generous that day.

pandora

acoustic guy wrote:

I am curious to know your opinion on the subject..

I live and work near Atlantic City NJ and its a problem there. Reasons are for one the Cops in New York acutally send their homeless on busses to Atlantic City because its a cheap trip and it removes them.
(TRUE! Ongoing problem between the two Departments).
Two...they are given three meals a day free. Breakfast and Dinner from the mission, and another church on Pacific Ave gives out free lunch to those who need it. (Which is fucked because there are tons of Asians who gamble but are not homeless go there for a free meal). So now, if they ask for money from people they spend it on either drugs, booze or gambling.
WTF???
How are you helping them by giving them money or food etc???????
And if you say some are stuck and actually DO want help....its maybe 2 percent of them.

There will always be those who take advantage when they do not deserve it nor need it but that doesn't mean we should stop helping the truly disadvantaged. We must continue to help the needy and not punish them for the greed of others. It's important to remember the spirit of giving.

mikepegg44

acoustic guy wrote:

I am curious to know your opinion on the subject..

I live and work near Atlantic City NJ and its a problem there. Reasons are for one the Cops in New York acutally send their homeless on busses to Atlantic City because its a cheap trip and it removes them.
(TRUE! Ongoing problem between the two Departments).
Two...they are given three meals a day free. Breakfast and Dinner from the mission, and another church on Pacific Ave gives out free lunch to those who need it. (Which is fucked because there are tons of Asians who gamble but are not homeless go there for a free meal). So now, if they ask for money from people they spend it on either drugs, booze or gambling.
WTF???
How are you helping them by giving them money or food etc???????
And if you say some are stuck and actually DO want help....its maybe 2 percent of them.

homeless people are just that...people without homes. they are still people and should be treated like it.

why do people become the morality police when they donate a little money? who gives a shit if he gambles it, buys some booze or gets his fix, that is his problem. if you want him to buy food with it take him to a subway and by him a damn sandwich. I ended up having quite a few good relationships with the guys that lived around my building by doing just that. Giving to them what I could. They even looked out for my stuff on the street, preventing my car from being stolen one night for example...it was pretty amazing. I would have good, pointed converstaions with them, about why they were homeless, and what they were doing. After I got through their bullshit it was pretty fun. They are people that are down on their luck, mentally ill, or hooked on drugs, etc...but they are still people and can teach you something if you let them.
I would challenge you Acoustic Guy...go to a homeless shelter and volunteer a few nights. It may take the high horse you are on down a few notches.

mikepegg44

Commy wrote:

byproducts of capitalism.


would you rather they starved to death?

how is this a product of capitalism? please explain

Smellyman

Sometimes I think I should sleep on the streets on those cold eastern winters so I can enjoy those wonderful free meals!!!

tremors

phut




(British anti-establishment joke)

MotoDC

mikepegg44 wrote:

Commy wrote:

byproducts of capitalism.


would you rather they starved to death?

how is this a product of capitalism? please explain

Because with capitalism, you have bums. With communism, everyone is a bum, but nobody knows any better, so it's all good. Get with the program, pegg.

_

mikepegg44 wrote:

acoustic guy wrote:

I am curious to know your opinion on the subject..

I live and work near Atlantic City NJ and its a problem there. Reasons are for one the Cops in New York acutally send their homeless on busses to Atlantic City because its a cheap trip and it removes them.
(TRUE! Ongoing problem between the two Departments).
Two...they are given three meals a day free. Breakfast and Dinner from the mission, and another church on Pacific Ave gives out free lunch to those who need it. (Which is fucked because there are tons of Asians who gamble but are not homeless go there for a free meal). So now, if they ask for money from people they spend it on either drugs, booze or gambling.
WTF???
How are you helping them by giving them money or food etc???????
And if you say some are stuck and actually DO want help....its maybe 2 percent of them.

homeless people are just that...people without homes. they are still people and should be treated like it.

why do people become the morality police when they donate a little money? who gives a shit if he gambles it, buys some booze or gets his fix, that is his problem. if you want him to buy food with it take him to a subway and by him a damn sandwich. I ended up having quite a few good relationships with the guys that lived around my building by doing just that. Giving to them what I could. They even looked out for my stuff on the street, preventing my car from being stolen one night for example...it was pretty amazing. I would have good, pointed converstaions with them, about why they were homeless, and what they were doing. After I got through their bullshit it was pretty fun. They are people that are down on their luck, mentally ill, or hooked on drugs, etc...but they are still people and can teach you something if you let them.
I would challenge you Acoustic Guy...go to a homeless shelter and volunteer a few nights. It may take the high horse you are on down a few notches.

Great post. :thumbup:

And you know what else I learned recently? That many (maybe even most) homeless people have some kind of traumatic brain injury. And let's not forgot that so many of them are veterans. Not that any of these things should really matter; they're still people regardless.

I have no problem giving homeless people money, taking them to buy food, or even taking them to a bar for a drink. One time I went for drinks with a couple of homeless guys and found out they were former students of my grandparents from a different state!

I think Acoustic Guy should not only volunteer at a homeless shelter, but he should also give homeless people more hugs. Homeless people need hugs too!

redrock

pandora wrote:

There will always be those who take advantage when they do not deserve it nor need it but that doesn't mean we should stop helping the truly disadvantaged. We must continue to help the needy and not punish them for the greed of others. It's important to remember the spirit of giving.

As you say.

dimitrispearljam

mikepegg44 wrote:

]


homeless people are just that...people without homes. they are still people and should be treated like it.

why do people become the morality police when they donate a little money? who gives a shit if he gambles it, buys some booze or gets his fix, that is his problem. if you want him to buy food with it take him to a subway and by him a damn sandwich. I ended up having quite a few good relationships with the guys that lived around my building by doing just that. Giving to them what I could. They even looked out for my stuff on the street, preventing my car from being stolen one night for example...it was pretty amazing. I would have good, pointed converstaions with them, about why they were homeless, and what they were doing. After I got through their bullshit it was pretty fun. They are people that are down on their luck, mentally ill, or hooked on drugs, etc...but they are still people and can teach you something if you let them.
I would challenge you Acoustic Guy...go to a homeless shelter and volunteer a few nights. It may take the high horse you are on down a few notches.

well said

fife

I don't know where to start but here i will go. I was homeless for around 1 year. stay in shelters when there was space and stayed outside when there was not space. I would use the money that people gave me to drink and also to do drugs. you want to know why? To forget. yes, i tried to save money to get a place to live but guess what when i was in a shelter people stole my money. I didn't have any Id so could not open a bank account. I would also go to drop-in food banks for food and i am glad i did, i met a great worker and got reconnected with my family. I went back to school and now i work with homeless people in Toronto. you think that people are doing this stuff because they don't care but the real reason they do drugs and drink is because they care too much.

also, concerning your 2% stats. what a load of shit. 100% of people won't a place the problem is that some don't know how to do that.

Jason P

If I have some food I will give it to someone that is in need but I got burned giving money away before. I always try to go through my old wardrobe once a year and take clothes I no longer wear to a reputable charity or church. I get a lot of jackets from work so hopefully there is a handful of people that stay a little more warm in the winter.

Unfortunately, I think a majority of the homeless have mental issues or severe drug problems. Money is probably one of the worst things to give someone in that condition. However, some warm clothes and food can make a small difference.

dimitrispearljam

fife wrote:

I don't know where to start but here i will go. I was homeless for around 1 year. stay in shelters when there was space and stayed outside when there was not space. I would use the money that people gave me to drink and also to do drugs. you want to know why? To forget. yes, i tried to save money to get a place to live but guess what when i was in a shelter people stole my money. I didn't have any Id so could not open a bank account. I would also go to drop-in food banks for food and i am glad i did, i met a great worker and got reconnected with my family. I went back to school and now i work with homeless people in Toronto. you think that people are doing this stuff because they don't care but the real reason they do drugs and drink is because they care too much.

also, concerning your 2% stats. what a load of shit. 100% of people won't a place the problem is that some don't know how to do that.

nice and congrats u get your life in a better path..happy for you..cheers from Greece

_

fife wrote:

I don't know where to start but here i will go. I was homeless for around 1 year. stay in shelters when there was space and stayed outside when there was not space. I would use the money that people gave me to drink and also to do drugs. you want to know why? To forget. yes, i tried to save money to get a place to live but guess what when i was in a shelter people stole my money. I didn't have any Id so could not open a bank account. I would also go to drop-in food banks for food and i am glad i did, i met a great worker and got reconnected with my family. I went back to school and now i work with homeless people in Toronto. you think that people are doing this stuff because they don't care but the real reason they do drugs and drink is because they care too much.

also, concerning your 2% stats. what a load of shit. 100% of people won't a place the problem is that some don't know how to do that.

I used to worry, when I gave people money, about whether they would use the money to drink. But then one day it occurred to me: If I were homeless, I'm sure I could use a drink! Why do I get to have a glass of wine after a hard day and homeless people aren't "allowed" to? And why can I go to a bar and get free drinks when I don't have money and homeless people can't (and usually can't even get in)? Having a place to sleep at night does not make us better people.

Cosmo

acoustic guy wrote:

I am curious to know your opinion on the subject..

I live and work near Atlantic City NJ and its a problem there. Reasons are for one the Cops in New York acutally send their homeless on busses to Atlantic City because its a cheap trip and it removes them.
(TRUE! Ongoing problem between the two Departments).
Two...they are given three meals a day free. Breakfast and Dinner from the mission, and another church on Pacific Ave gives out free lunch to those who need it. (Which is fucked because there are tons of Asians who gamble but are not homeless go there for a free meal). So now, if they ask for money from people they spend it on either drugs, booze or gambling.
WTF???
How are you helping them by giving them money or food etc???????
And if you say some are stuck and actually DO want help....its maybe 2 percent of them.

...
Here is my take...
I know a lot of those homeless men on the streets of L.A. who are veterans. The older ones from Viet Nam, some from the Gulf War and we're now seeing the ones from Iraq and Afghanistan. I never have the, 'Get a job' attitude with them because I know... there are very few career opportunities for them... because, seriously, who is going to hire them?
I also understand that there are people who will take advantage of human charity and cheat the system. Sometimes, it's tough to tell them apart, but, in most case... you can.
I give what I can, when asked... sometimes, I just can't. I really don't care if they spend it on drugs or booze because the way I see it... if I'm ever at the point where I'm living on the streets, sleeping on the concrete and on the receiving end of scornful people... I want to be stoned or drunk so I could, hopefully, forget that I have fucked up my life to the point where I am living on the street, sleeping on the concrete and on the receiving end of so many people's scorn.
Yeah... I am guilty of 'enabling' them. That is the downside of compassion, I guess. I live rather comfortably and am well fed. A couple of bucks here or there isn't going to make me go broke. And I guess I have way too much concern for our war veterans who are just not able to re-adjust to the way things were.

tremors

fife wrote:

I don't know where to start but here i will go. I was homeless for around 1 year. stay in shelters when there was space and stayed outside when there was not space. I would use the money that people gave me to drink and also to do drugs. you want to know why? To forget. yes, i tried to save money to get a place to live but guess what when i was in a shelter people stole my money. I didn't have any Id so could not open a bank account. I would also go to drop-in food banks for food and i am glad i did, i met a great worker and got reconnected with my family. I went back to school and now i work with homeless people in Toronto. you think that people are doing this stuff because they don't care but the real reason they do drugs and drink is because they care too much.

also, concerning your 2% stats. what a load of shit. 100% of people won't a place the problem is that some don't know how to do that.

Is brave of you to say this, and very useful to have an injection of reality and fact. In practice many people DO turn their life around - with help, and typically like you (like me also) they feel they want to 'give something back' - a hell of a lot of social workers, youth workers, community workers, drugs counsellors etc are real people who have escaped difficult situations, know how hard it is, and want to do their bit to help others once they have found their feet.

In my experience of supporting homeless young people over a ten year period (97-2007) - many people seemed to be on a one way track to crime, prison, or long term homelessness, and whatever we did, they couldn't turn things around. However, many others (maybe 4 in 10) really could use the support, valued what we were trying to do, made changes, and nowadays I see them on the streets of my town - working, settled down, married, or (as above) I bump into them in some community centre meeting and they are full-time helping others - (eg have been off heroin for 5 or 6 years, and are helping others to do the same) - drawing on their own experience of what actually works and how hard it really is.

Personally I don't have a fixed policy on giving money to beggars -sometimes I do, sometimes I don't (mainly depending on cashflow and busyness). I do buy the Big Issue homeless newspaper a lot. In practice I know though, that without a lot of intensive one to one support it is very difficult for people to break out of a negative spiral - their peers, their past experiences, the attitude of passers by - without support. Trouble is a lot of these 'group' accommodation options: hostels / shelters are themselves very dangerous environments which any sane person would think twice or three times about staying in. So - more social programmes which are genuinely effective and committed to providing safe and supported environments are what are really needed - and funding is tight currently.

Commy

mikepegg44 wrote:

Commy wrote:

byproducts of capitalism.


would you rather they starved to death?

how is this a product of capitalism? please explain

a more accurate statement could be 'products of american society" although its true for both.



when companies withing the US are pocketing more money than countries like saudi arabia, where do you think that money comes from?


labor is exploited under capitalism, the further down the chain you are the more work you tend to do, with less compensation. its very apparent in the food industry, where i worked for 4 years in high end restaurants.


the labor done by the cooks paid everybody's paycheck in the entire building. basically every job in the building, and outside too-the corporate owners only showed up twice a year-everybody was exploiting my labor. nobody has a job in the building if no one is cooking the food.

i'm not saying those jobs weren't needed, i'm saying the compensation based on labor was ridiculously backwards.

that's fairly typical under capitalism, and given numbers in the united states, real wages have stagnated relative to inflation since 1978 or so. this while ceo's have seen exponential increases in paychecks and companies are seeing record profits, up until recently anyway.


what you have is a society that exploits labor, instead of honoring it.

i don't look down on homeless people, many of them have chosen not to participate in such a society. why work your ass off 50 hours a week when your boss working half as hard gets paid twice as much? disillusionment, disgust, people choosing not to participate, a definition of success that they want no part of. these are the people that choose not to participate in a selfish society that values things over humanity.


and then you have the many who simply can't find a job that suits them. or who had banks foreclose on their houses or who simply got laid off because their job was sent overseas where world trade agreements ensured the lowest common denominator.


in a society that values labor i can see a place where people choose to do their part, instead of escape from it, drugs, alcohol, whatever the vice. why work your ass off so your boss can vacation 6 months a year? labor benefits the owners and managers, not society as a whole, and that distinction is crucial for many people.