Question about Homeless people...
acoustic guy
Posts: 3,770
I am curious to know your opinion on the subject..
I live and work near Atlantic City NJ and its a problem there. Reasons are for one the Cops in New York acutally send their homeless on busses to Atlantic City because its a cheap trip and it removes them.
(TRUE! Ongoing problem between the two Departments).
Two...they are given three meals a day free. Breakfast and Dinner from the mission, and another church on Pacific Ave gives out free lunch to those who need it. (Which is fucked because there are tons of Asians who gamble but are not homeless go there for a free meal). So now, if they ask for money from people they spend it on either drugs, booze or gambling.
WTF???
How are you helping them by giving them money or food etc???????
And if you say some are stuck and actually DO want help....its maybe 2 percent of them.
I live and work near Atlantic City NJ and its a problem there. Reasons are for one the Cops in New York acutally send their homeless on busses to Atlantic City because its a cheap trip and it removes them.
(TRUE! Ongoing problem between the two Departments).
Two...they are given three meals a day free. Breakfast and Dinner from the mission, and another church on Pacific Ave gives out free lunch to those who need it. (Which is fucked because there are tons of Asians who gamble but are not homeless go there for a free meal). So now, if they ask for money from people they spend it on either drugs, booze or gambling.
WTF???
How are you helping them by giving them money or food etc???????
And if you say some are stuck and actually DO want help....its maybe 2 percent of them.
Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
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would you rather they starved to death?
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homeless people are just that...people without homes. they are still people and should be treated like it.
why do people become the morality police when they donate a little money? who gives a shit if he gambles it, buys some booze or gets his fix, that is his problem. if you want him to buy food with it take him to a subway and by him a damn sandwich. I ended up having quite a few good relationships with the guys that lived around my building by doing just that. Giving to them what I could. They even looked out for my stuff on the street, preventing my car from being stolen one night for example...it was pretty amazing. I would have good, pointed converstaions with them, about why they were homeless, and what they were doing. After I got through their bullshit it was pretty fun. They are people that are down on their luck, mentally ill, or hooked on drugs, etc...but they are still people and can teach you something if you let them.
I would challenge you Acoustic Guy...go to a homeless shelter and volunteer a few nights. It may take the high horse you are on down a few notches.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
how is this a product of capitalism? please explain
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
(British anti-establishment joke)
Send my credentials to the house of detention
Great post. :thumbup:
And you know what else I learned recently? That many (maybe even most) homeless people have some kind of traumatic brain injury. And let's not forgot that so many of them are veterans. Not that any of these things should really matter; they're still people regardless.
I have no problem giving homeless people money, taking them to buy food, or even taking them to a bar for a drink. One time I went for drinks with a couple of homeless guys and found out they were former students of my grandparents from a different state!
I think Acoustic Guy should not only volunteer at a homeless shelter, but he should also give homeless people more hugs. Homeless people need hugs too!
As you say.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
also, concerning your 2% stats. what a load of shit. 100% of people won't a place the problem is that some don't know how to do that.
Unfortunately, I think a majority of the homeless have mental issues or severe drug problems. Money is probably one of the worst things to give someone in that condition. However, some warm clothes and food can make a small difference.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I used to worry, when I gave people money, about whether they would use the money to drink. But then one day it occurred to me: If I were homeless, I'm sure I could use a drink! Why do I get to have a glass of wine after a hard day and homeless people aren't "allowed" to? And why can I go to a bar and get free drinks when I don't have money and homeless people can't (and usually can't even get in)? Having a place to sleep at night does not make us better people.
Here is my take...
I know a lot of those homeless men on the streets of L.A. who are veterans. The older ones from Viet Nam, some from the Gulf War and we're now seeing the ones from Iraq and Afghanistan. I never have the, 'Get a job' attitude with them because I know... there are very few career opportunities for them... because, seriously, who is going to hire them?
I also understand that there are people who will take advantage of human charity and cheat the system. Sometimes, it's tough to tell them apart, but, in most case... you can.
I give what I can, when asked... sometimes, I just can't. I really don't care if they spend it on drugs or booze because the way I see it... if I'm ever at the point where I'm living on the streets, sleeping on the concrete and on the receiving end of scornful people... I want to be stoned or drunk so I could, hopefully, forget that I have fucked up my life to the point where I am living on the street, sleeping on the concrete and on the receiving end of so many people's scorn.
Yeah... I am guilty of 'enabling' them. That is the downside of compassion, I guess. I live rather comfortably and am well fed. A couple of bucks here or there isn't going to make me go broke. And I guess I have way too much concern for our war veterans who are just not able to re-adjust to the way things were.
Hail, Hail!!!
Is brave of you to say this, and very useful to have an injection of reality and fact. In practice many people DO turn their life around - with help, and typically like you (like me also) they feel they want to 'give something back' - a hell of a lot of social workers, youth workers, community workers, drugs counsellors etc are real people who have escaped difficult situations, know how hard it is, and want to do their bit to help others once they have found their feet.
In my experience of supporting homeless young people over a ten year period (97-2007) - many people seemed to be on a one way track to crime, prison, or long term homelessness, and whatever we did, they couldn't turn things around. However, many others (maybe 4 in 10) really could use the support, valued what we were trying to do, made changes, and nowadays I see them on the streets of my town - working, settled down, married, or (as above) I bump into them in some community centre meeting and they are full-time helping others - (eg have been off heroin for 5 or 6 years, and are helping others to do the same) - drawing on their own experience of what actually works and how hard it really is.
Personally I don't have a fixed policy on giving money to beggars -sometimes I do, sometimes I don't (mainly depending on cashflow and busyness). I do buy the Big Issue homeless newspaper a lot. In practice I know though, that without a lot of intensive one to one support it is very difficult for people to break out of a negative spiral - their peers, their past experiences, the attitude of passers by - without support. Trouble is a lot of these 'group' accommodation options: hostels / shelters are themselves very dangerous environments which any sane person would think twice or three times about staying in. So - more social programmes which are genuinely effective and committed to providing safe and supported environments are what are really needed - and funding is tight currently.
Send my credentials to the house of detention
when companies withing the US are pocketing more money than countries like saudi arabia, where do you think that money comes from?
labor is exploited under capitalism, the further down the chain you are the more work you tend to do, with less compensation. its very apparent in the food industry, where i worked for 4 years in high end restaurants.
the labor done by the cooks paid everybody's paycheck in the entire building. basically every job in the building, and outside too-the corporate owners only showed up twice a year-everybody was exploiting my labor. nobody has a job in the building if no one is cooking the food.
i'm not saying those jobs weren't needed, i'm saying the compensation based on labor was ridiculously backwards.
that's fairly typical under capitalism, and given numbers in the united states, real wages have stagnated relative to inflation since 1978 or so. this while ceo's have seen exponential increases in paychecks and companies are seeing record profits, up until recently anyway.
what you have is a society that exploits labor, instead of honoring it.
i don't look down on homeless people, many of them have chosen not to participate in such a society. why work your ass off 50 hours a week when your boss working half as hard gets paid twice as much? disillusionment, disgust, people choosing not to participate, a definition of success that they want no part of. these are the people that choose not to participate in a selfish society that values things over humanity.
and then you have the many who simply can't find a job that suits them. or who had banks foreclose on their houses or who simply got laid off because their job was sent overseas where world trade agreements ensured the lowest common denominator.
in a society that values labor i can see a place where people choose to do their part, instead of escape from it, drugs, alcohol, whatever the vice. why work your ass off so your boss can vacation 6 months a year? labor benefits the owners and managers, not society as a whole, and that distinction is crucial for many people.
How about using those areas of the bases for homeless veterans? Use part of the massive defense budget to cover the costs by cutting down of some of the high priced hardware. The occupants can do the maintenance on the houses they will be living in and upkeep of them as they are there. They are sort of used to military disciplines and veteran's support personel can oversee the area, assign tasks, hold meeting to combat alcohlism and drug addiction and help them to find work in the local area. They must meet some sort of criteria to live there and risk getting tossed back out if they cause trouble.
There are grounds where they can plant vegetables, giving those with limited skills something to do. Everyone pulls their own weight and they look out for each other.
It just seem to me... that there is so much wasted shelter and so many vets sleeping out in the weather.
Hail, Hail!!!
Sorry Commy, i agree with some of the things you have said concerning our society but i think you have a very romantic view of homelessness. I have been working with homeless people for around 8 years and have been homeless myself and I can tell you. I wanted to work and most of the homeless people i work with now want to work. Poor people and homeless people know better than anyone how important money is in our society. your claim that homeless people choose not to participate in society is not correct. most homeless people want to be a part of society and were forced out of society due to reason that may not have been in their control.
I will restate what i said before. No-one wants to be homeless but some don't know any other way.
I'm seeing this happen right now at the university I work for. We're facing a budget crisis and will have to slash our budget by a third in the next nine months. The university has instituted a pure freeze on raises, and is preparing to let 700 employees go - which definitely speaks to fife's reasons beyond their control. And, don't forget, not everyone who works at a university is a top-of-the-line researcher who will land on his feet easily - the university employs a ton of janitors, cleaners, and other people who are barely earning minimum wage. Because the state, and the university, didn't have its shit together, a ton of people are going to be laid off who really can't afford to be laid off, and it wouldn't surprise me if a handful ended up on the street as a result.
What really makes me sick in all of this is what Commy was talking about. While the people earning minimum wage to keep the university clean and safe are being laid off, the people at the other end of the food chain are getting around the pure raise freeze by playing musical chairs with job titles, and increasing their compensation every time they do so. Our provost left, so the dean emeritus of the journalism school stepped in to replace her. While he was giving interviews saying he was going to be known as the grim reaper because of the budget slashing he was going to do, it came out that he gave himself a huge raise and was now earning $40,000 a year more than the provost he replaced.
The whole system is screwed up.
Listen, I dont think I am on a high horse. I actually am working on a job in AC now and I have made friends with a few homeless guys there which made me think of writing this post.
I just have a hard time blowing my money i work for to a person who is gonna use it for drinks or drugs. Fuck that! I know THESE guys I met will do just that bc I see it all day long with them.
Food, okay. Shelter, okay. Clothes, Great!
I already talked to the woman I am doing work for and she accepts clothes for homeless. I am not the devil because I bring up sensitive topics. WTF?
And Vets! I will do all I can for a Vet. I really feel for them, but I cant accept giving money for their crutch sorry. If that makes me a bad person in yor eyes then so be it.
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
Anyway...Nice to meet ya! :twisted: Muhahaha!
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
I think the issue that i had with your post was not the question it asks but that it seemed that you didn't want an answer. you already had it in your head that they are hopeless cases and there is no reason to help them. its a fair question to ask and i don't think your a bad person but when you ask a question maybe you should be open to an answer that may not fit your view. have a good day.
I enjoy the back and forth and i enjoy hearing the other point of view...
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
here's my take on homeless people ... i periodically with friends will make winter kits (food, toque, gloves, socks, etc) and walk around and offer them up ... most will take it ... some won't ... and some could care less ... i am one of those guys that often gives money to the guys in the corner on the street ... if i have food - i will give that first ... in the end tho - i try not to judge ... i have a roof over my head and food on my plate - there are a million paths that can lead a person to be homeless ...
Sweep the Leg Johnny.