handcuffed palestinian youth shot in back and killed

gimmesometruth27

Commy wrote:

and now Israel is launching shells into Gaza.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11301624


3 civilians killed, no action taken against soldiers.




they build a trigger happy racist army, tell them there are no consequences for their actions, and set them loose on one of the most populated places on the planet.

did you see this from today? hamas provoked this one by firing morters and a rocket.....allegedly....

Amid peace talks, Gaza shells and Israel air raids
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100915/ap_ ... east_talks

JERUSALEM – Militants launched mortar shells into Israel and Israeli jets bombed targets in Gaza on Wednesday, just as Israeli and Palestinian leaders held peace talks in Jerusalem with U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Gaza militants opposed to peace with Israel have threatened to derail the fledgling negotiations, and the Israeli military said eight mortars and one rocket hit Israel by mid-afternoon on the day of the talks — the highest daily total since March 2009. There were no injuries.

Police said two of the mortar shells had phosphorous warheads, which can set fires or severely burn people.

Israeli warplanes responded by bombing a smuggling tunnel along the Gaza-Egypt border, the military said. Hamas officials said one person was killed and four wounded.

In Jerusalem, little more than an hour's drive from Gaza, Clinton said Israeli and Palestinian leaders were "getting down to business" on the major issues dividing them, though there was no sign they were any closer to resolving a looming crisis over Israeli West Bank settlements.

The American secretary of state was in Jerusalem for a second day of talks aimed in part at ending the impasse, a day after meeting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas at a summit hosted by Egypt.

"They are getting down to business and they have begun to grapple with the core issues that can only be resolved through face-to-face negotiations," Clinton told reporters. "I believe they are serious about reaching an agreement that results in two states living side by side in peace and security."

Before meeting at his Jerusalem residence with Abbas, Netanyahu was unable to point to progress. "We are working on it," he said in a brief remark to reporters. "It's a lot of work."

Abbas has threatened to walk out of the talks if Israel resumes construction in the settlements after a 10-month slowdown expires at the end of the month. Clinton and President Barack Obama have called on Netanyahu to extend the slowdown.

Netanyahu has signaled he is looking for a compromise. Earlier this week, he said the current curbs won't remain in place after the end of this month, though he will continue to restrict building activity to some extent.

The Palestinians oppose the settlements because they eat up land they want for their future state. Some 300,000 Israelis live scattered among the West Bank's 2.5 million Palestinians. An additional 200,000 Israelis live in east Jerusalem, the section of the holy city the Palestinians claim as their capital.

President Barack Obama has made his pursuit of a Mideast settlement a centerpiece of his foreign policy. After months of U.S. shuttle diplomacy, he summoned the Israeli and Palestinian leaders to Washington early this month to formally launch the first direct negotiations since talks collapsed in 2008 following Israel's military offensive in Gaza. Obama hopes to forge a deal within a year.

Negotiators will have to tackle a series of issues that have undermined talks in the past: the location of the border between Israel and a future Palestinian state, the fate of Palestinian refugees and the competing claims to the holy city of Jerusalem.

But they will have a hard time addressing those disputes if they cannot resolve the disagreement on the settlement slowdown.

Under intense international pressure, Netanyahu declared curbs on West Bank settlement construction last November, seeking to draw the Palestinians back to the negotiating table. At the time the Palestinians dismissed the move as insignificant, an irony Clinton pointed out ahead of Tuesday's talks in Egypt.

"Now we're told that negotiations cannot continue unless something that was viewed as being inadequate continues," she said.

The slowdown is set to expire on Sept. 26, and Netanyahu is being pressed by many of his religious and nationalist allies in Israel's coalition government to resume construction. Members of his own Likud Party have taken out ads in Israeli dailies in recent days demanding an end to the slowdown.

Both Netanyahu and Abbas share a common enemy: Hamas. The Islamic group took over Gaza in 2007 after ousting Abbas' forces, and it has threatened to unleash new violence as the peace talks move forward.

Following Wednesday's airstrike, Hamas said its security forces had evacuated their installations in preparation for further Israeli retaliation.

A senior Israeli military officer forecast further violence in the coming days.

The officer, speaking on condition of anonymity under military guidelines, said Hamas has become increasingly involved in the violence, turning a blind eye to the attacks and occasionally giving its permission to "proxies" to carry out violence.

Hamas has largely refrained from directly carrying out attacks since a devastating Israeli offensive early last year, and has at times even reined in other armed groups from attacking. But with the resumption of peace talks, the militant group has threatened to change its policy.

Early this week, the head of Israel's Shin Bet security agency warned that Hamas would try to torpedo the new talks, and when negotiations were officially launched early this month, Hamas militants killed four Israelis in the West Bank.

CJMST3K

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Commy wrote:

and now Israel is launching shells into Gaza.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11301624


3 civilians killed, no action taken against soldiers.




they build a trigger happy racist army, tell them there are no consequences for their actions, and set them loose on one of the most populated places on the planet.

did you see this from today? hamas provoked this one by firing morters and a rocket.....allegedly....

Silly Gimme... there's only one side to every story.

gimmesometruth27

CJMST3K wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Commy wrote:

and now Israel is launching shells into Gaza.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11301624


3 civilians killed, no action taken against soldiers.




they build a trigger happy racist army, tell them there are no consequences for their actions, and set them loose on one of the most populated places on the planet.

did you see this from today? hamas provoked this one by firing morters and a rocket.....allegedly....

Silly Gimme... there's only one side to every story.

silly me? i am just going by what the fucking article said. am i not supposed to read something and have a critical thought about what is written????

it said that 2 of the morters has phosphorus tips, same as what israel used against the palestinians. which leads me to ask, where did hamas get those? did israel or the US sell them to them? because israel and the US are the only ones that routinely use these types of arms... or are these some of the missing weapons from iraq? that is why i say allegedly because hamas is not known to use these weapons....

CJMST3K

Subject: handcuffed palestinian youth shot in back and killed

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

did you see this from today? hamas provoked this one by firing morters and a rocket.....allegedly....

Silly Gimme... there's only one side to every story.

silly me? i am just going by what the fucking article said. am i not supposed to read something and have a critical thought about what is written????

it said that 2 of the morters has phosphorus tips, same as what israel used against the palestinians. which leads me to ask, where did hamas get those? did israel or the US sell them to them? because israel and the US are the only ones that routinely use these types of arms... or are these some of the missing weapons from iraq? that is why i say allegedly because hamas is not known to use these weapons....

My fault - I meant to put the winky emoticon next to "silly gimme". Like "silly rabbit, Trix are for kids".



The other part about "there's only one side to every story" was being humorous that often people only talk about one-side or the other side. There's obviously two sides. ...cool?

gimmesometruth27

^^^^

no worries, i misinterpreted your post. :oops:

Commy

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

The Palestinians oppose the settlements because they eat up land they want for their future state. Some 300,000 Israelis live scattered among the West Bank's 2.5 million Palestinians. An additional 200,000 Israelis live in east Jerusalem, the section of the holy city the Palestinians claim as their capital.

typical american propaganda.


the land on which the settlements are being built is land that belongs to Palestinians, not land they "want", as the article suggest. the settlements are being built on Palestinian land, that should be made very clear, something the article fails to do. the article is twisting it to seem like it is all in question.


and they don't "claim" East Jerusalem as their capital, (the wording suggest only they believe this), it IS their capital, everybody recognizes this, outside of the US elite and Israel.

TriumphantAngel

CJMST3K wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

That part of the article is an example of something called sarcasm. Glad we've cleared that up. Next.

Precisely my point. Which is why I don't consider this a "news report", but a biased post. If there were a link to a known news affiliate (which posts facts as opposed to biased sarcasm) I might consider that to be more credible on this circumstance.

just want to clear something up. there is another site that uses reference numbers when reporting incidents of Israeli crimes committed in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

the PCHR website (Palestinian Centre for Human Rights), uses reference numbers when reporting these crimes. i can assure you that they don't do it for sarcasm. they do it because there are that damn many of these incidents that they are numbered as a reference.

for an example, referring to Commys link from the BBC news, where the old man and his grandson were murdered, the PCHR have this listed as 80/2010.

http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index ... Itemid=194

the other thing that sickens me, is that when the 4 settlers were murdered recently, the whole world knew about it and it was loudly condemned (and rightly so). Hillary Clinton had plenty to say and people around here did too.

any reason why this is not front page news in the US and Clinton is not condemning this?

disgusting. the double standards are enough to make you throw up. a Jewish life is no more special or worthy of outrage after a murder than anyone elses. every life is precious. Palestinians are human beings just like everyone else. start treating them like it.

gimmesometruth27

Commy wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

The Palestinians oppose the settlements because they eat up land they want for their future state. Some 300,000 Israelis live scattered among the West Bank's 2.5 million Palestinians. An additional 200,000 Israelis live in east Jerusalem, the section of the holy city the Palestinians claim as their capital.

typical american propaganda.


the land on which the settlements are being built is land that belongs to Palestinians, not land they "want", as the article suggest. the settlements are being built on Palestinian land, that should be made very clear, something the article fails to do. the article is twisting it to seem like it is all in question.


and they don't "claim" East Jerusalem as their capital, (the wording suggest only they believe this), it IS their capital, everybody recognizes this, outside of the US elite and Israel.

i know this. don't blame me. blame the author of the article.

Commy

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Commy wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

The Palestinians oppose the settlements because they eat up land they want for their future state. Some 300,000 Israelis live scattered among the West Bank's 2.5 million Palestinians. An additional 200,000 Israelis live in east Jerusalem, the section of the holy city the Palestinians claim as their capital.

typical american propaganda.


the land on which the settlements are being built is land that belongs to Palestinians, not land they "want", as the article suggest. the settlements are being built on Palestinian land, that should be made very clear, something the article fails to do. the article is twisting it to seem like it is all in question.


and they don't "claim" East Jerusalem as their capital, (the wording suggest only they believe this), it IS their capital, everybody recognizes this, outside of the US elite and Israel.

i know this. don't blame me. blame the author of the article.

i thought you would. was strange you posted that is all.

gimmesometruth27

Commy wrote:

i thought you would. was strange you posted that is all.

what does that mean?

Commy

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Commy wrote:

i thought you would. was strange you posted that is all.

what does that mean?

it was a propganda piece that you posted. given your posts in the past it seemed to me like you usually see through all that bullshit.

gimmesometruth27

Commy wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Commy wrote:

i thought you would. was strange you posted that is all.

what does that mean?

it was a propganda piece that you posted. given your posts in the past it seemed to me like you usually see through all that bullshit.

i posted that because it was talking about the airstrikes in retaliation to hamas shooting morters and a rocket. did hamas not expect a reprisal? that author just put that shit in there for background of the issue. in this case he/she happened to be wrong. but i was in a hurry so i was not going to go in there and selectively edit out everything i disagreed with like some people on here might do to make their case, i just posted it as it appeared.

it think it is strange that you just singled out that little piece instead of the main theme of the article as a whole.

Commy

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i posted that because it was talking about the airstrikes in retaliation to hamas shooting morters and a rocket. did hamas not expect a reprisal? that author just put that shit in there for background of the issue. in this case he/she happened to be wrong. but i was in a hurry so i was not going to go in there and selectively edit out everything i disagreed with like some people on here might do to make their case, i just posted it as it appeared.

it think it is strange that you just singled out that little piece instead of the main theme of the article as a whole.

alright. i can address your point. ignored it for a reason, but sure.



my point was that Israel has trigger happy forces, which i dont' think anyone can deny, given their history, the op, the article i posted, thousands of other examples. these, with almost no accounts of punishment. their soldiers are basically given carte blanche, go kill.

your response was to post a propaganda piece about how Hamas is firing mortars and rockets. are you excusing the IDF then? are you saying since Hamas fired mortars, its ok for Israel to kill innocent people?


maybe you can clarify.

gimmesometruth27

Commy wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i posted that because it was talking about the airstrikes in retaliation to hamas shooting morters and a rocket. did hamas not expect a reprisal? that author just put that shit in there for background of the issue. in this case he/she happened to be wrong. but i was in a hurry so i was not going to go in there and selectively edit out everything i disagreed with like some people on here might do to make their case, i just posted it as it appeared.

it think it is strange that you just singled out that little piece instead of the main theme of the article as a whole.

alright. i can address your point. ignored it for a reason, but sure.



my point was that Israel has trigger happy forces, which i dont' think anyone can deny, given their history, the op, the article i posted, thousands of other examples. these, with almost no accounts of punishment. their soldiers are basically given carte blanche, go kill.

your response was to post a propaganda piece about how Hamas is firing mortars and rockets. are you excusing the IDF then? are you saying since Hamas fired mortars, its ok for Israel to kill innocent people?


maybe you can clarify.

i agree with your point about the carte blanche. my posts on here have said that repeatedly. ad nauseum. i got banned for a few weeks for going overboard in my criticism of the israeli policies. so don't imply that i do not have any idea of what i am talking about.

are you saying that hamas did not fire the rockets? did you read my comment where i mentioned that that was allegedly what happend? if hamas fired those things, including phosphorus tips, they are poking a snake with a stick and are calling the thunder down upon themselves. do they not realize what the outcome and reprisal is going to be? and i am outraged by what the israeli air force did. i am on the same side as you are. yes the article might have been "propaganda" but that is all we get on sites like yahoo.com and that is where i happened to see that. it is never ok for anyone to be killed, but hamas is stepping all over their dick by doing this when they are launching attacks when they know most of the media will portray them as the aggressors. and when that happens, how is the world ever going to see their side?

edit to add, how can hamas ever expect the world to stand up and defend them when the mainstream media in much of the world portrays them as the barriers to peace instead of talking about the land snatching and the blockade and checkpoints and such things. most of us are ignorant because we do not see it everyday on our news.

Commy

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Commy wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i posted that because it was talking about the airstrikes in retaliation to hamas shooting morters and a rocket. did hamas not expect a reprisal? that author just put that shit in there for background of the issue. in this case he/she happened to be wrong. but i was in a hurry so i was not going to go in there and selectively edit out everything i disagreed with like some people on here might do to make their case, i just posted it as it appeared.

it think it is strange that you just singled out that little piece instead of the main theme of the article as a whole.

alright. i can address your point. ignored it for a reason, but sure.



my point was that Israel has trigger happy forces, which i dont' think anyone can deny, given their history, the op, the article i posted, thousands of other examples. these, with almost no accounts of punishment. their soldiers are basically given carte blanche, go kill.

your response was to post a propaganda piece about how Hamas is firing mortars and rockets. are you excusing the IDF then? are you saying since Hamas fired mortars, its ok for Israel to kill innocent people?


maybe you can clarify.

i agree with your point about the carte blanche. my posts on here have said that repeatedly. ad nauseum. i got banned for a few weeks for going overboard in my criticism of the israeli policies. so don't imply that i do not have any idea of what i am talking about.

are you saying that hamas did not fire the rockets? did you read my comment where i mentioned that that was allegedly what happend? if hamas fired those things, including phosphorus tips, they are poking a snake with a stick and are calling the thunder down upon themselves. do they not realize what the outcome and reprisal is going to be? and i am outraged by what the israeli air force did. i am on the same side as you are. yes the article might have been "propaganda" but that is all we get on sites like yahoo.com and that is where i happened to see that. it is never ok for anyone to be killed, but hamas is stepping all over their dick by doing this when they are launching attacks when they know most of the media will portray them as the aggressors. and when that happens, how is the world ever going to see their side?

i never implied you don't know what you are talking about. i've said the opposite.......maybe i should make the point that i'm not attacking you personally. when i responded to your propaganda piece i wasn't having a go at you, was just taking on the article, which we both seem to agree was very one sided.






but it was was your response to my post about Israelis killing innocent people. which i don't think is a valid argument.


yes governments do terrible things, we can both agree on that. what hamas can hope to gain by doing so is beyond me, violence in the current situation is only going to benefit israel, give them the excuse to kill more.


but to blame hamas for israel indescrimanately firing on civilians seem absurd to me.




when a crime is committed find those responsible. in the case of the grandfather and his grandson killed by idf, that list could be very long, reaching up to netan yahoo. in the case of hamas firing rockets, yeah maybe its just that arm of that government that is responsible.


however you look at it, the actions of hamas should not have had any bearing on that family that were killed by those tank shells. they had no part those rockets that were fired.

gimmesometruth27

Commy wrote:

i never implied you don't know what you are talking about. i've said the opposite.......maybe i should make the point that i'm not attacking you personally. when i responded to your propaganda piece i wasn't having a go at you, was just taking on the article, which we both seem to agree was very one sided.






but it was was your response to my post about Israelis killing innocent people. which i don't think is a valid argument.


yes governments do terrible things, we can both agree on that. what hamas can hope to gain by doing so is beyond me, violence in the current situation is only going to benefit israel, give them the excuse to kill more.


but to blame hamas for israel indescrimanately firing on civilians seem absurd to me.




when a crime is committed find those responsible. in the case of the grandfather and his grandson killed by idf, that list could be very long, reaching up to netan yahoo. in the case of hamas firing rockets, yeah maybe its just that arm of that government that is responsible.


however you look at it, the actions of hamas should not have had any bearing on that family that were killed by those tank shells. they had no part those rockets that were fired.

my bad, i must have misinterpreted your post taking on the article. i have a million things on my mind and i seem to be misinterpreting or misprocessing things a lot lately. i agree it probably was not the best article, but it was the only thing i found readily about the airstrikes. actually it was not much of an objective piece at all, but it can be argued that there is no objective piece on this conflict because whatever is written is written from one perspective or the other....

you are exactly right when you say that violence on the part of hamas only benefits israel. i think the link i was trying to make between hamas and killing innocent people is that in the court of public opinion in the US, hamas, and thus the palestinians by extension since hamas represents the views of some of them, are portrayed as the aggressors. thus it is ok to kill them...which it is not, i am just saying what some people might think based on the "news" we get here...your average american has no idea why there is conflict there. all they ever hear is hamas shoots rockets into israel and israel retaliates. it is as if they see it in the same context as an afghan shoots an rpg at a humvee, and the tank behind the humvee shoots a round or 3 or 4 or 5 and kills the shooter and 15 plus other people...thus, those afghans deserved it...little do they realize the parallels that we and israel both are occupying foreign land and they wonder why hamas and the afghans are pissed...

it is a fucking shame the shitty world we live in...sometimes it is easy to get down and feel sick about it. it is one of those times for me i guess....

and i agree when a crime is committed they should find and punish those that committed it. but that would take police work and witnesses that can not be bought or intimidated that would have to be very courageous. i think that maybe these leaders realize that it might just be easier and more efficient to shoot or drop a bomb and ask questions afterward. which is completely wrong in and of itself. netanyahu being held accountable for anything is like saying bush and cheney are going to go to jail for what they did. unfortunately it ain't gonna happen...

Byrnzie

Hamas commander shot dead by the IDF whilst sleeping in his bed.

I thought extra-judicial assassinations were a serious breach of international law?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11340558

17 September 2010

Israeli forces kill West Bank Hamas commander

Israeli forces have shot dead a local Hamas military commander in the north of the occupied West Bank.

Iyad Shilbaya, a commander of the Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades, was killed during a raid to arrest him, the Israeli military said.

Hamas's military wing said it was responsible for the killing at the end of August of four Jewish settlers in the West Bank.

It is not clear whether Shilbaya was a suspect in these killings.

Since the killing of the four Jewish settlers, Palestinian and Israeli security forces have arrested scores of Hamas supporters across the West Bank.

Twelve other Palestinians were arrested in the overnight operation.

Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad criticised the killing of Shilbaya as a "dangerous escalation".

Recent weeks have seen an increase in rocket fire from Gaza into Israel and a series of Israeli air raids on the territory.

Hamas is opposed to the US-sponsored talks, launched in Washington on 2 September, between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, led by Mahmoud Abbas.

Differing accounts of the shooting at the Nur Shams refugee camp in Tulkarm are emerging.

According to Palestinian reports, the brother of the Hamas militant was forced to lead the Israeli soldiers to the house Shilbaya was staying in. The brother is reported to have said that the militant was shot three times while asleep and his body taken away by the soldiers.
West Bank map BBC

An Israeli military spokesperson said Shilbaya was shot "during a routine arrest raid". Soldiers opened fire after Shilbaya came towards them despite being told to halt, the military official said.

Israel has occupied the West Bank since 1967, settling close to 500,000 Jews in more than 100 settlements. There are about 2.5 million Palestinians living in the West Bank.

Pepe Silvia

Byrnzie wrote:

Hamas commander shot dead by the IDF whilst sleeping in his bed.

I thought extra-judicial assassinations were a serious breach of international law?

i thought the same of using White Phosphorous rounds in civilian areas, piracy, looting the flotilla and selling the stuff as well as using their credit cards, illegal blockade.......and yet....but gee, obama sure does sound tough now and then :roll:

TriumphantAngel

Byrnzie wrote:

I thought extra-judicial assassinations were a serious breach of international law?

that won't bother Israel. Israel doesn't abide by International Law or UN Resolutions.

yosi

Don't jump to conclusions. The guy's brother is hardly an objective source of information.